SLU Basketball Scholarship Grid

[cheeseman]

I would think you should have listed AY as a Junior Transfer since everybody else on the list is shown at what year they would be for the 2013-2014 season. Nice work and thanks.

[JMM28]

My gut feeling is that Tanner gets more minutes right away than Reggie. From the scouting reports Lancona has a pretty good outside shot. The stretch 4 role previously filled by Cody off the bench will be available.

I wouldn't be surprised, again based on reports only, if Reggie gets some decent PT later in the year. With that one of Manning or Glaze would have to be a disappointment.

[kshoe]

Our 1st tourney with this group was when McCall, Jett, Loe, Evans, etc... were sophs.

It's not concerning to me because I understand that to continue to have success this incoming class and the next class has to be good. If they aren't it wouldn't matter if we had 2 or 3 other players on this years roster that would still be there. I guess you have to believe in the staff and the scouting reports of the incoming players. In addition it doesn't matter how many of the '14 - '15 roster have experience today. How many will have experience at the beginning of that year.

JM - 3

GG - 3

AM - 2 ( 1 with toledo plus 1 with us) plus a free practice year

AY - 2 both with Nova but a full year of practice with us

MC - 1

RA - 1

TL - 1

The way I see it, I expect that to be a damn good 7. 4 bigs with experience and 3 guards with experience. Any frosh to break into the top 7 is a bonus.

In addition the level of this incoming class (by ratings and who else was recruiting them) is better than the DE, MM, JJ, RL class and we won a game in the tourney when they were all sophs.

I hate that this post is going to sound like I'm bashing on our guys, because I'm not trying to do that, but I think you are over-selling how much experience these guys will have after next year.

To date, only GG has experience in meaningful minutes while at SLU. After this year, I expect that group to increase to GG for 2 years and JM for 1 year. McBroom and 1 of the freshman will likely also get significant experience. I expect two of the freshman to be the 10th and 11th guys in a 9 man rotation. AY barely played down the stretch this year at Villanova and while he had some big games against big opponents, its not like he average 20 minutes a game.

Let's not forget that as terrific as this group of seniors has been, when they were just thrown into the fire their freshman year they went 12-19 and there were a lot of growing pains. Experience (plus the assistance of guys like Conklin, Kwamain and Cody) is what turned them into winners. Its not as easy as recruiting a bunch of 3 star players, throwing the ball out there and expecting them as freshmen and sophomores to lead us to 24 win seasons.

I expect 2014-15 to be a rebuilding year. If rebuilding means NIT then so be it.

[slufanskip]

I hate that this post is going to sound like I'm bashing on our guys, because I'm not trying to do that, but I think you are over-selling how much experience these guys will have after next year.

To date, only GG has experience in meaningful minutes while at SLU. After this year, I expect that group to increase to GG for 2 years and JM for 1 year. McBroom and 1 of the freshman will likely also get significant experience. I expect two of the freshman to be the 10th and 11th guys in a 9 man rotation. AY barely played down the stretch this year at Villanova and while he had some big games against big opponents, its not like he average 20 minutes a game.

Let's not forget that as terrific as this group of seniors has been, when they were just thrown into the fire their freshman year they went 12-19 and there were a lot of growing pains. Experience (plus the assistance of guys like Conklin, Kwamain and Cody) is what turned them into winners. Its not as easy as recruiting a bunch of 3 star players, throwing the ball out there and expecting them as freshmen and sophomores to lead us to 24 win seasons.

I expect 2014-15 to be a rebuilding year. If rebuilding means NIT then so be it.

I think AM and RA and quite possibly TL will be in the top 8 by mid season. Something tells me you are underestimating Ash

I believe these 5 players minutes are secure. Everything else is up for grabs by mid season. I wouldn't be completely shocked to see us use 4 players for the majority of minutes at the 4 and 5 and 5 players at the 1 - 3 giving us a 9 man rotation.

I'm not saying I don't think there is a chance we end up in the NIT, but you seem to feel the NIT would be a good outcome. I'll consider it a poor one.

JJ, MM, DE, RL, AM

[cheeseman]

Once again some on the board are letting the hype of a player by who knows who cloud their thinking. For the 2013-14 year, we have RL, JJ, MM, and DE returning so all they need is a little help from whoever is there. JB has been a disappoint given how many - including me - bought into the "all world" stuff we kept hearing about him - can he provide some minutes next year sure but don't expect anything much more than what we got out of him this year. McBroom - came with a strong pedigree - see JB - can he provide help - everyone thinks so but we have been down that road before, I will be ever hopeful and will wait to see the proof on the court. After this you have GG and JM - GG has provided the most tangible proof of the two - he can provide some help but with JM - sorry he would really need to have to step up for me see anything of substance coming from him - hope however springs eternal. The new guys coming in - well, time will tell. I know they have good press from some but until we see them actually play and progress next year then we should not assume they will be of much help - if they are then great but don't put your eggs in their basket just yet.

For 2014-15 - who knows what will happen, I was feeling really concerned before but now I at least think maybe just maybe we could be OK - NCAA or NIT - post season would be a plus no matter which one - These new guys could knock our socks off but expect the best but plan for the worst - none of these kids have played one minute of D1 ball except for AY - so caution is the word here. Someone posted that this transition phase we will go through is what bigger programs do all the time - this is a great comment and one that actually makes me feel a little better but not ever having been in this position before I am just not sure how to feel.

[slufanskip]

Once again some on the board are letting the hype of a player by who knows who cloud their thinking. For the 2013-14 year, we have RL, JJ, MM, and DE returning so all they need is a little help from whoever is there. JB has been a disappoint given how many - including me - bought into the "all world" stuff we kept hearing about him - can he provide some minutes next year sure but don't expect anything much more than what we got out of him this year. McBroom - came with a strong pedigree - see JB - can he provide help - everyone thinks so but we have been down that road before, I will be ever hopeful and will wait to see the proof on the court. After this you have GG and JM - GG has provided the most tangible proof of the two - he can provide some help but with JM - sorry he would really need to have to step up for me see anything of substance coming from him - hope however springs eternal. The new guys coming in - well, time will tell. I know they have good press from some but until we see them actually play and progress next year then we should not assume they will be of much help - if they are then great but don't put your eggs in their basket just yet.

For 2014-15 - who knows what will happen, I was feeling really concerned before but now I at least think maybe just maybe we could be OK - NCAA or NIT - post season would be a plus no matter which one - These new guys could knock our socks off but expect the best but plan for the worst - none of these kids have played one minute of D1 ball except for AY - so caution is the word here. Someone posted that this transition phase we will go through is what bigger programs do all the time - this is a great comment and one that actually makes me feel a little better but not ever having been in this position before I am just not sure how to feel.

Yep, lets just assume we are going to suck every year until the players are proven.

I'm a half full kind of guy.

Rankings and who players are being recruited by DOES tell you the majority of time how good a player is going to be. Are there exceptions? of course, but the coaches recruiting these guys and evaluating them are generally pretty good at what they do.

I'd be willing to bet at least 2 new players AM included get good minutes this year 20 give or take a couple starting mid season. I won't be surprised to see 3 over 15 and I won't be shocked to see all 4 over 10 during the 2nd half of the season

[RiseAndGrind]

Yep, lets just assume we are going to suck every year until the players are proven.

I'm a half full kind of guy.

Rankings and who players are being recruited by DOES tell you the majority of time how good a player is going to be. Are there exceptions? of course, but the coaches recruiting these guys and evaluating them are generally pretty good at what they do.

I'd be willing to bet at least 2 new players AM included get good minutes this year 20 give or take a couple starting mid season. I won't be surprised to see 3 over 15 and I won't be shocked to see all 4 over 10 during the 2nd half of the season

Cheese appears to be the exact opposite.

[Bizziken]

I think an NCAA Tournament appearance, without question, should be the bare minimum expectation for next year's team

[kshoe]

I think an NCAA Tournament appearance, without question, should be the bare minimum expectation for next year's team

We aren't talking about next years team. It's the year after we are discussing.

[NH]

I think an NCAA Tournament appearance, without 'question, should be the bare minimum expectation for next year's team

By next year you mean '14-'15?

I think those "expecting" an NCAA bid after we lose Barnett, Loe, McCall, Jett, and Evans

are being a little absurd. And I don't consider expecting less than that to be pessimistic or negative.

I agree with a lot of Skip's assertions. I think Mcbroom, Agbeko and possibly Lancona will be in the top 9 next year. I predict that AY will be a quality starter as soon as he is eligible. I even predict that John Manning will give us solid minutes this year and be an above-average center by his Senior season. I consider all those relatively optimistic predictions, but at the same time think we have reasons for optimism.

But even with those projections, that still leaves the '14-'15 team with the following resume:

2 returning starters (If we assume Glaze/Agbeko/Manning and McBroom)

0 of the top four returning scorers (Loe, McCall, Jett, and Evans)

0 returning all-conference players

2 players with more than one year of Billiken playing experience under their belt.

On the surface, that outlook seems pretty dreary. But for the reasons Skip noted and I alluded to (promising incoming freshman class and Yacabou's addition), I think the prognosis will be a little more promising. It is because of this that I project the Bills to be an NIT team with NCAA potential that year. But I certainly don't expect the NCAA and would not be disappointed with the NIT. There is not much of a precedent, especially at SLU, for that kind of speedy rebuilding process. Further, perhaps we have been spoiled by our recent success. The NCAA tournament is hard to qualify for. For a school like SLU, it more often than not takes experience, depth and quality guard play. Of those three factors, only one is guaranteed come '14-'15.

[cheeseman]

Yep, lets just assume we are going to suck every year until the players are proven.

I'm a half full kind of guy.

Rankings and who players are being recruited by DOES tell you the majority of time how good a player is going to be. Are there exceptions? of course, but the coaches recruiting these guys and evaluating them are generally pretty good at what they do.

I'd be willing to bet at least 2 new players AM included get good minutes this year 20 give or take a couple starting mid season. I won't be surprised to see 3 over 15 and I won't be shocked to see all 4 over 10 during the 2nd half of the season

You take everything a person says as negative - my point simply is these are unproven players for 2014-15 and to sit there and say that they will all be solid players in their freshmen year is a bit heady. Can they surprise us and play well as freshmen yes. Can the freshmen next year as sophs be stalwarts - yes but it took the mid year addition of Cody to turn the team that KM and WR were on as sophs to even get us to a post season. Without him coming we very well would have not been there.

[jbizzle09]

By next year you mean '14-'15?

I think those "expecting" an NCAA bid after we lose Barnett, Loe, McCall, Jett, and Evans

are being a little absurd. And I don't consider expecting less than that to be pessimistic or negative.

I agree with a lot of Skip's assertions. I think Mcbroom, Agbeko and possibly Lancona will be in the top 9 next year. I predict that AY will be a quality starter as soon as he is eligible. I even predict that John Manning will give us solid minutes this year and be an above-average center by his Senior season. I consider all those relatively optimistic predictions, but at the same time think we have reasons for optimism.

But even with those projections, that still leaves the '14-'15 team with the following resume:

2 returning starters (If we assume Glaze/Agbeko/Manning and McBroom)

0 of the top four returning scorers (Loe, McCall, Jett, and Evans)

0 returning all-conference players

2 players with more than one year of Billiken playing experience under their belt.

On the surface, that outlook seems pretty dreary. But for the reasons Skip noted and I alluded to (promising incoming freshman class and Yacabou's addition), I think the prognosis will be a little more promising. It is because of this that I project the Bills to be an NIT team with NCAA potential that year. But I certainly don't expect the NCAA and would not be disappointed with the NIT. There is not much of a precedent, especially at SLU, for that kind of speedy rebuilding process. Further, perhaps we have been spoiled by our recent success. The NCAA tournament is hard to qualify for. For a school like SLU, it more often than not takes experience, depth and quality guard play. Of those three factors, only one is guaranteed come '14-'15.

This is a very well-reasoned and logical post.

I was a bit more pessimistic about the 2014-15 outlook a few months ago, when there was quite a bit more uncertainty hanging above this team. However, now that Crews has been locked in for a while as the head coach, and he has been able to sign players for next season and now 2014-15, I feel a bit more optimistic about the team having a winning season that year and hopefully getting into the post-season.

At one point, I was preparing myself in advance for a repeat of the 2010-11 season. Basically, the team would lose a lot of games but I'd take comfort in the fact that the young players would gain experience and get a little baptism by fire, which would mature them and help them in the coming years. However, even though I feel that it might be a bit too optimistic to expect an NCAA appearance that season, I fully expect the team to at least have a winning record and perhaps push themselves into some post-season tournament (CBI or NIT.)

[jbizzle09]

You take everything a person says as negative - my point simply is these are unproven players for 2014-15 and to sit there and say that they will all be solid players in their freshmen year is a bit heady. Can they surprise us and play well as freshmen yes. Can the freshmen next year as sophs be stalwarts - yes but it took the mid year addition of Cody to turn the team that KM and WR were on as sophs to even get us to a post season. Without him coming we very well would have not been there.

Hmmmm, wasn't Cody a freshman that year?

[almaman]

holy sht might use this for a screensaver. You da' man. what I see here is a blue print for staying at this level. If we use last offer for this season and get a player the same level as other 3 freshman recruits we should have 4 starters like we got with current class in 4 yrs. years between look more promising than current year ever did back in the day.

Thanks again for chart

[slufan13]

I know it's just discussion but I feel like it's pretty hard to have a definitive feeling either way before we see the rest of the recruiting class and before guys like McBroom, Lancona, Agbeko, and Crawford have even played a minute at SLU.

[billiken_roy]

way too mjch use of initials in this thread. i suggest the thread be locked.

[cheeseman]

Hmmmm, wasn't Cody a freshman that year?

Yes - what is your point? My point was it took the addition of a player that we did not have on the roster that year to start to push us over. All the other freshmen were not up to the task. If you are trying to say that Cody was a freshman so all the incoming freshmen could be like him then fine but honestly, Cody add a compliment to the existing roster not put it on his shoulders. Anybody who could have envisioned Cody doing as well that semester would be not be truthful.

[jbizzle09]

Yes - what is your point? My point was it took the addition of a player that we did not have on the roster that year to start to push us over. All the other freshmen were not up to the task. If you are trying to say that Cody was a freshman so all the incoming freshmen could be like him then fine but honestly, Cody add a compliment to the existing roster not put it on his shoulders. Anybody who could have envisioned Cody doing as well that semester would be not be truthful.

My point is that you negated much of your argument about being skeptical about unproven players when you point to the addition of Cody on the 2009-2010 as being a big help. In your posts with Skip, you were stating that you can't really rely on freshmen and sophomores to be solid players right away. However, to support your argument, you point to Cody joining the team mid-season as a freshman, as that team needed another piece to get to the post-season. It just seems to me like you are countering your own argument with this position by pointing to a freshman who did well right away.

[JMM28]

[RUBillsFan]

JMM thanks for posting the graphic. Not trying to nitpick, but I think your open scholarship numbers are off for 2016-17 and 2017-18. They should be 5 and 8, respectively.

[NextYearBill]

Looking at that chart 2014-15 may be tough. Prove me wrong though

[JMM28]

JMM thanks for posting the graphic. Not trying to nitpick, but I think your open scholarship numbers are off for 2016-17 and 2017-18. They should be 5 and 8, respectively.

Whoops. Thanks. Fixed.