nice piece on Crawford = Kokomo Tribune

[ACE]

Make that one misguided poster.

NH and I believe Taj are the ones I remember, and here may have even been another.

[billiken_roy]

as to the level of dwight evans early enthusiasm i dont recall. i do believe he was generally not considered the big catch Mccall and Loe were supposed to be the class of the class. and i also recall doc B telling us after seeing evans play at the rec center that he was liddell like or better and a number of us (myself included) doubting that level of play. in hindsight bigtime kudos to doc B.

i do not recall any sort of a package recruiting deal with mike mccall.

[ACE]

as to the level of dwight evans early enthusiasm i dont recall. i do believe he was generally not considered the big catch Mccall and Loe were supposed to be the class of the class. and i also recall doc B telling us after seeing evans play at the rec center that he was liddell like or better and a number of us (myself included) doubting that level of play. in hindsight bigtime kudos to doc B.

i do not recall any sort of a package recruiting deal with mike mccall.

I never understood why DocB caught so much crap. While Dwight has exceeded almost everybody's expectations, including my own, I don't get why Doc's positive reports about DE attracted so much hostility. I was glad to hear the reports that why might have a real diamond in the rough.

I'm pretty sure DE and MM knew each other pretty well and that may have factored into getting both.

[Billiken Rich]

I never understood why DocB caught so much crap. While Dwight has exceeded almost everybody's expectations, including my own, I don't get why Doc's positive reports about DE attracted so much hostility. I was glad to hear the reports that why might have a real diamond in the rough.

I'm pretty sure DE and MM knew each other pretty well and that may have factored into getting both.

Could be that he comes off like a pompous know-it-all much of the time. Maybe it was the messenger.....

[RiseAndGrind]

I never understood why DocB caught so much crap. While Dwight has exceeded almost everybody's expectations, including my own, I don't get why Doc's positive reports about DE attracted so much hostility. I was glad to hear the reports that why might have a real diamond in the rough.

I'm pretty sure DE and MM knew each other pretty well and that may have factored into getting both.

I remember when Evans committed Nate Latsch had a story where Evans commented that he was working on getting McCall to commit. They definitely knew each other.

[Box and Won]

I never understood why DocB caught so much crap. While Dwight has exceeded almost everybody's expectations, including my own, I don't get why Doc's positive reports about DE attracted so much hostility. I was glad to hear the reports that why might have a real diamond in the rough.

I'm pretty sure DE and MM knew each other pretty well and that may have factored into getting both.

People were probably still smarting from earlier reports on practice all-stars like Vashun Newborne.

[courtside]

Evans and McCall were both very highly thought of players out of Chicago, but still a little under the radar in terms of recruiting.

Evans played on a very good suburbia Naperville/Aurora area high school team that had a great record but fizzled out in the state tourney against increased competition. He was well respected as a very good high school player on one of the top teams in the Chicago area. But, he was thought of as a 6'5 inside/outside player, but mostly inside, mid-range, where many of the big boy schools would go with someone taller or with better ball handling and outside skills.

McCall was a public high league player, well respected and well thought of, and imo not as often discussed, at least initially. He was overshadowed by higher profile teammates. But time and again in a supporting role, McCall would take over games when needed. His high school team was overshadowed by some of the bigger named public high league teams, despite their success. McCall was considered an undersized, good, quick two guard/combo guard. Again, many bigger colleges see the height etc....and overlook.

I would say Kwamain Mitchell was less discussed in the recruiting world than either of them initially. Mitchell would play AAU games for Playground Warriors after all the big name college coaches left after the year younger than him played. Johnie Lacy, Jamil Wilson, etc...were higher profile. KM was a later bloomer. But he kept playing well and succeeding and eventually was noticed where Moser and Majerus would watch him play. Again, undersized two guard/combo guard that would need to learn to play elsewhere and in other ways and he did.

If some of those guys were several inches taller, or more of a true wing or true point guard etc... at the time, more bigger named schools would have jumped aboard sooner.

A key is identifying players who can play and who can overcome those things.

But in terms of respect and accolades, Evans and McCall were well respected and played on top area teams in Chicago. Mitchell's attention came later in his high school career.

i would also add that all three had quiet on court personalities, hard working, team players, not flashy nor self-promoting. But all were good and had success individually and as a team.

[cgeldmacher]

I see Mike as a high-floor player. Worst case scenario, he is a glue guy at the swingman position and a rotation player for his last two years. Best case, he is a mismatch at the 2/3, can stroke it from downtown and is a 3-4 year rotation player and 1-2 year starter.

He will have a tough time breaking into the rotation this year, as will be the case for all of our frosh. We will have talent from top-to-bottom at every position, and the only place we might need help will be at the 4/5.

Mike is another guy who I am excited to see develop over the next four years.

If Carter was getting minutes last year as a freshman, and we haven't added another guard, yet, why wouldn't MC get minutes next year. I think that if he does well, he could get 15-20 a game. Of course, that all could depend on our other signees, but they probably would be freshmen also.

[kappy96]

Crawford is getting beat up on here because he was the lone recruit landed in the fall by Crews and the staff and as such it was assumed he "couldn't" be that good. Not sure why everyone is banging on him...did you GOSEETHEKIDPLAY? If not, let's wait to see him in the fall before rushing to judgement.

[Zink]

If Carter was getting minutes last year as a freshman, and we haven't added another guard, yet, why wouldn't MC get minutes next year. I think that if he does well, he could get 15-20 a game. Of course, that all could depend on our other signees, but they probably would be freshmen also.

Austin McBroom will be eligible and will most likely be our third guard. Plus he would have to pass Jake Barnett, who can play a few minutes/game at the two. Plus Jared Drew will be competing for the same kind of minutes. That 2/3 spot will be rather backed up next season.

And Carter wasn't even really part of the rotation during his short time here.

[wgstl]

mcbroom reminds me alot of evan roquemore the pg from santa clara

[ACE]

People were probably still smarting from earlier reports on practice all-stars like Vashun Newborne.

That is another good reason to close practice to the public.

[ACE]

Austin McBroom will be eligible and will most likely be our third guard. Plus he would have to pass Jake Barnett, who can play a few minutes/game at the two. Plus Jared Drew will be competing for the same kind of minutes. That 2/3 spot will be rather backed up next season.

And Carter wasn't even really part of the rotation during his short time here.

Agreed. I expect McBroom to be a big part of the rotation. I think you touched on one battle for playing time at the 2/3 spot. Can Drew or Crawford take PT from Barnett? Or another scenario, would be if Drew or Crawford are good enough to contribute, then dare I say it, DE could see a little more time at the 4 depending on match-ups. I am big believer in getting your best players on the floor, even if the positions aren't ideal. LaSalle showed that you can have come success with unconventional lineups.

[jbizzle09]

Prove it - I believe that Evans was seen as a good pick up - maybe not as good as McCall but not anything to be disappointed with. In fact it looks like Duff just proved you wrong. Alman sorry my use of "you" was incorrect as it related to your post - my bad.

I think a lot of what I stated was the result of me remembering the following thread:

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19631

That was the thread where DoctorB compared Evans abilities to TL3 and said that he was going to be one to watch. During that thread, he got beat up a bit by at least a couple of posters, with one even suggesting that DE was going to transfer. This thread took place 2 weeks before the season, so there was knowledge of 'The Situation' and it seemed that there was still some lowered expectations of Evans, even though there were more minutes available than previously. However, I could be spreading the words of a few posters a bit too far and wide, but at least in this thread, there was some pushback and lack of enthusiasm of Evans.

Now, the overall point I was trying to make (and perhaps I didn't do a very good job at it) was to state that of the 4 freshman recruits that season, Evans was the one that was the least acclaimed and had the lowest amount of overall buzz coming in. That Loe, McCall and Jett all had more excitement generated on this board than Evans did prior to their first season. Sure, there were obviously complimentary posts made about Evans. Frankly, every recruit we ever get has some complimentary posts made, some posts that state that they will be great right off of the bat, etc. Just about every recruit has threads started about them about what they did in a high school game, AAU, tournaments, summer leagues, etc.

However, were there more overall posts of this nature for Evans than the other 3? I doubt it. However, quite frankly, it would be very hard to prove that one way or the other. So I'd have to concede that I can't 'prove it'. But, I will say that per recruiting sites at the time, it did appear that Evans had the most modest recruiting profile of the 4. Their profiles looked like:

Mike McCall - ESPN Grade - 88; Rivals - 3 stars; Other offers: Cal, Dayton, Xavier, UNLV, Virginia, SIU-C, Northern Ill., Indiana St.

Rob Loe - ESPN Grade - 91; Other offers: Arizona, St. Mary's, Colorado, Pitt, Georgia Tech

Jordair Jett - ESPN Grade - 90; Other offers: Baylor, Arkansas

Dwayne Evans - ESPN Grade - 80; Other offers: Loyola Chicago, Northern Ill., Northwestern

I guess the main reason I jumped into this fray is that, per my memory, Evans was the least heralded of the recruits, yet turned out to be the best of the bunch (a VERY talented bunch, thank you!) Much like back then, Crawford is getting some admirers, but also many that don't think much will occur due to his modest recruiting profile. Honestly, who at this moment can say that they are more excited about Crawford than Agbeko? I doubt many, if any. Only time will tell, though, how it will all wash out. I guess that is my point, which could have been made in far fewer words!

[billiken_roy]

mcbroom reminds me alot of evan roquemore the pg from santa clara

what do you base this on? we havent even seen mcbroom shoot a free throw yet. do you mean he looks like this santa clara guy's media guide picture? how does he remind you of him?

[wgstl]

what do you base this on? we havent even seen mcbroom shoot a free throw yet. do you mean he looks like this santa clara guy's media guide picture? how does he remind you of him?

Sorry not specific enough, yes visuals. They look similar.

[ACE]

I think a lot of what I stated was the result of me remembering the following thread:

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19631

That was the thread where DoctorB compared Evans abilities to TL3 and said that he was going to be one to watch. During that thread, he got beat up a bit by at least a couple of posters, with one even suggesting that DE was going to transfer. This thread took place 2 weeks before the season, so there was knowledge of 'The Situation' and it seemed that there was still some lowered expectations of Evans, even though there were more minutes available than previously. However, I could be spreading the words of a few posters a bit too far and wide, but at least in this thread, there was some pushback and lack of enthusiasm of Evans.

Now, the overall point I was trying to make (and perhaps I didn't do a very good job at it) was to state that of the 4 freshman recruits that season, Evans was the one that was the least acclaimed and had the lowest amount of overall buzz coming in. That Loe, McCall and Jett all had more excitement generated on this board than Evans did prior to their first season. Sure, there were obviously complimentary posts made about Evans. Frankly, every recruit we ever get has some complimentary posts made, some posts that state that they will be great right off of the bat, etc. Just about every recruit has threads started about them about what they did in a high school game, AAU, tournaments, summer leagues, etc.

However, were there more overall posts of this nature for Evans than the other 3? I doubt it. However, quite frankly, it would be very hard to prove that one way or the other. So I'd have to concede that I can't 'prove it'. But, I will say that per recruiting sites at the time, it did appear that Evans had the most modest recruiting profile of the 4. Their profiles looked like:

Mike McCall - ESPN Grade - 88; Rivals - 3 stars; Other offers: Cal, Dayton, Xavier, UNLV, Virginia, SIU-C, Northern Ill., Indiana St.

Rob Loe - ESPN Grade - 91; Other offers: Arizona, St. Mary's, Colorado, Pitt, Georgia Tech

Jordair Jett - ESPN Grade - 90; Other offers: Baylor, Arkansas

Dwayne Evans - ESPN Grade - 80; Other offers: Loyola Chicago, Northern Ill., Northwestern

I guess the main reason I jumped into this fray is that, per my memory, Evans was the least heralded of the recruits, yet turned out to be the best of the bunch (a VERY talented bunch, thank you!) Much like back then, Crawford is getting some admirers, but also many that don't think much will occur due to his modest recruiting profile. Honestly, who at this moment can say that they are more excited about Crawford than Agbeko? I doubt many, if any. Only time will tell, though, how it will all wash out. I guess that is my point, which could have been made in far fewer words!

Interesting to take a walk down memory lane. Doc caught a lot of sh!t for saying DE was as good as TL, but he was on the right side of history. He also had high hopes for Jordair. Hopefully Doc can give us some practice reports next fall. Some Billiken fans over-rated TL's athletic ability and NBA potential. Excellent college player, but not NBA caliber. Good skill, but not the explosive athleticism of Hughes or even Mo Jeffers, who got drafted but didn't make it.

[doowop]

I never understood why DocB caught so much crap. While Dwight has exceeded almost everybody's expectations, including my own, I don't get why Doc's positive reports about DE attracted so much hostility. I was glad to hear the reports that why might have a real diamond in the rough.

I'm pretty sure DE and MM knew each other pretty well and that may have factored into getting both.

It was reported that Evans was trying to talk McCall into coming to SLU. He was helping to recruit him here.

[doowop]

McCall and Evans were ranked in the top 10 of Chicago players when they were seniors. I believe McCall was ranked fifth and Evans either eighth or tenth.

[Duff Man]

I guess the main reason I jumped into this fray is that, per my memory, Evans was the least heralded of the recruits, yet turned out to be the best of the bunch (a VERY talented bunch, thank you!) Much like back then, Crawford is getting some admirers, but also many that don't think much will occur due to his modest recruiting profile. Honestly, who at this moment can say that they are more excited about Crawford than Agbeko? I doubt many, if any. Only time will tell, though, how it will all wash out. I guess that is my point, which could have been made in far fewer words!

Agreed on all of this. I do see the parallel between Crawford and Evans. There are reasons to be excited, but also reasons to be somewhat guarded about expectations.

I just took exception with the way history was being rewritten to make it seem like people here didn't expect Evans to be a good player. Basically you're talking about one clown (BillikenROAR) dogging DE, and a few knee jerk negative reactions to the TLIII comp all in one single thread that was taking place 4 or 5 days after the suspensions of KM and WR - a period when many regular posters were naturally taking a break from the board.