Burwell: Big East may go to 12 next year

[Franchise_89]

The Big East will need to go to 12 to better prepare for what's coming. The ncaa tournament will not be around much longer.

Please explain TJHawk about the NCAA tournament. Good luck to your Jayhawks. Glad to see SLU as a "good" win for your squad.

[kshoe]

Please explain. CBS and Turner have billions of reasons it will be around at least 11 more years.

He's playing on the idea that the BCS schools in the 4 or 5 power conferences will leave the NCAA tourney and form their own athletic association. He implies that if the Big East is big enough and powerful enough it will be invited into this select group. The idea being that these schools that make insane amounts of money and pay their coaches insane amounts of money don't like the idea of sharing ANY of the revenue with the smaller conference schools and will create their own basketball tournament.

Its all hogwash...

[Franchise_89]

He's playing on the idea that the BCS schools in the 4 or 5 power conferences will leave the NCAA tourney and form their own athletic association. He implies that if the Big East is big enough and powerful enough it will be invited into this select group. The idea being that these schools that make insane amounts of money and pay their coaches insane amounts of money don't like the idea of sharing ANY of the revenue with the smaller conference schools and will create their own basketball tournament.

Its all hogwash...

Due to the current state of college athletics, this is not a crazy thought at all.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Here is the UMass thread: http://umasshoops.com/board/index.htm

That just sent us to the main page, not a thread. Sorry.

[brianstl]

It is crazy because the government would never let it happen. Between the antitrust suits and the legislation that would threaten the funding of schools that did this, there would be zero chance this would happen. Over half of the US Senate would either have their home state frozen out or the alma mater left behind. Isn't going to happen.

[almaman]

He's playing on the idea that the BCS schools in the 4 or 5 power conferences will leave the NCAA tourney and form their own athletic association. He implies that if the Big East is big enough and powerful enough it will be invited into this select group. The idea being that these schools that make insane amounts of money and pay their coaches insane amounts of money don't like the idea of sharing ANY of the revenue with the smaller conference schools and will create their own basketball tournament.

Its all hogwash...

Sounds interesting. current situation one of the coolest things in all of American sports, but still not the ultimate. Imagine 144 or so top programs divided into leagues of 12. no one can play teams outside the Gross so we'd have no more Kansas hosting SEMO etc. Top four from each league go to playoffs. 17-32 play 33-48 winners move on to play top 16. Agree will never happen but might be better.

[MusicCityBilliken]

The Big East will need to go to 12 to better prepare for what's coming. The ncaa tournament will not be around much longer.

TJ, they can't even change the football bowl system that everyone hates.

You think they going to change March Madness which everyone seems to love?

If they do, they deserve to go the way of the dinosaur.

[slu72]

Well, you can bet teams like UVA, AL, UK, etc are ticked a school like Middle Tenn got in ahead of them. This goes along with the Jay Bilas Bias. If you put Middle TN in the SEC, would they even crack the .500 mark. Even GZ get a one seed probably didn't sit too well with the bigs. Folks say, there would be too much uproar, and there would, but never discount the power of the dollars. What I can see happening some day is the bigs, once they get all their conferences aligned just right, ie 16 schools in each conference, may well bolt the NCAA and set up their own governing body to get around any contract w/ CBS.

[davidnark]

Try this link: http://umasshoops.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=13291&start=30

[waldo027]

If you put Middle TN in the SEC, would they even crack the .500 mark.

Uhhh, yes, they definitely would.

[slu72]

Try this link: http://umasshoops.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=13291&start=30

Read the UMass board. It seems somewhat consistent w/ what Burwell reported. If the guy from UMass is correct, it seems X and Butler deserved a premium, ie exit fees paid for, while UD and SLU didn't. Then the part about us playing the schedule but not the tourney, which is BS, would be reason for SLU and UD to pay their own exit fees and say adios to the A-10. Which is consistent with what Burwell said, "money will not be an obstacle." As someone stated above this is the same situation Butler and VCU faced with their old conferences last year. So, I guess it's up to the powers that be in the C7 whether they will accomodate two more teams in 13-14. And that depends upon how qickly they can get an organization in place. I don't know what to make of the Richmond situation. Is it coming down to 3 vieing for 2 spots? If so, I think we'd be in the lead. TV Market size, and it would make sense to stick a school in between CU and the rest of the league. Dayton would't be the choice since they're so close to X. Bottom line: I'd say the arrow's pointing in SLU's direction.

[Basketbill]

Richmond is not in. I suspect that was settled months ago, and while it may have been true that Georgetown wanted Richmond and some schools felt there were too many Jesuit Schools, that is water under the Bridge. the die is cast SLU and Dayton mist be 11 and 12. The only reason the A-10 would have the stance against SLU and Dayton is if they new they were gone. A-10 seems to be actually helping SLU by forcing the issue...

[MusicCityBilliken]

Read the UMass board. It seems somewhat consistent w/ what Burwell reported. If the guy from UMass is correct, it seems X and Butler deserved a premium, ie exit fees paid for, while UD and SLU didn't. Then the part about us playing the schedule but not the tourney, which is BS, would be reason for SLU and UD to pay their own exit fees and say adios to the A-10. Which is consistent with what Burwell said, "money will not be an obstacle." As someone stated above this is the same situation Butler and VCU faced with their old conferences last year. So, I guess it's up to the powers that be in the C7 whether they will accomodate two more teams in 13-14. And that depends upon how qickly they can get an organization in place. I don't know what to make of the Richmond situation. Is it coming down to 3 vieing for 2 spots? If so, I think we'd be in the lead. TV Market size, and it would make sense to stick a school in between CU and the rest of the league. Dayton would't be the choice since they're so close to X. Bottom line: I'd say the arrow's pointing in SLU's direction.

If this indeed is the case, letting X and Butler slide, I can understand. Both in the last decade done far more then us and UD in NCAA appearances. Both are taking a major hit on appearance units. Also, Butler took a hit probably to get out of the Horizon.

If this was a clean get away, stay another year in the A10 as a full member and have the Big East pick up the discounted exit fees, I would say stick it out. Now with this alternative of being a independent and with a nice nucleus of players returning, lets pay up and get out.

Again, if this is the alternative, Bondi pay the exit fee. Its not the time to go cheap.

[cheeseman]

If what BB and the UMass board are saying is true then I agree we are in. The idea of Richmond getting in may well be over - the Richmond market would have been better then Dayton in my opinion but we can let the powers to be work through that issue. Once Creighton gets in then it does make sense that they need another team in between and that would only be us. In fact, I have been confused by the Marquette people not pushing for us either - our location has to be even better for them especially for their non revenue sports. As far as the exit fees go - I was of the understanding that the new league was going to lend the money to each team and you would pay it back through your TV money or least something like that with even maybe a portion being paid by the new league so I am not sure the money thing is a problem for us regardless. I still am confused about the NCAA units - if the A10 lets you keep 75% of the money then why would we have to give up that - I do understand the 25% would be lost and probably even the share of that also.

[davidnark]

I still am confused about the NCAA units - if the A10 lets you keep 75% of the money then why would we have to give up that - I do understand the 25% would be lost and probably even the share of that also.

The Units are owned by the conference, not the team. Each conference has their own contractually-agreed upon method as to how the revenue from the Units are distributed among their members. Most conferences give a disproportionate amount to current members who generated the Units. Once a team leaves the conference, they walk away from the right to receive any revenue from the Units they generated for the conference. SLU will get some share of the revenue generated from existing Big East units, but presumably it will be a much smaller share.

[Basketbill]

So we need Cincinnati, ND, Louisville along with the teams that are staying to win, that is until we play them......new perspective on the brackets

[slu72]

According to BB, don't worry about the money. This conference will pay off in the long term w/ more TV funds, more national exposure, stability (finally), etc. If all our assumptions are right, the next thing to be addressed will be how to avoid becoming a DePaul in this league. Still don't know how they've blown it so bad, but there's a lesson in there somewhere about how to avert a disaster when you seem to have everything going for you, top conference, TV exposure, sits in the middle of a recruiting hot bed, biggest Catholic school in a large Catholic city.

[slu72]

So we need Cincinnati, ND, Louisville along with the teams that are staying to win, that is until we play them......new perspective on the brackets

Well, you sure don't want to cheer for UL against us.

[cheeseman]

The Units are owned by the conference, not the team. Each conference has their own contractually-agreed upon method as to how the revenue from the Units are distributed among their members. Most conferences give a disproportionate amount to current members who generated the Units. Once a team leaves the conference, they walk away from the right to receive any revenue from the Units they generated for the conference. SLU will get some share of the revenue generated from existing Big East units, but presumably it will be a much smaller share.

OK I follow what you are saying but I am not sure why the money goes to the conference - I would think the money would go to the individual school and then the conference contract would say you must pay the 25% back to the league in the A10 case. Given all the money we made last year it would be tough to have to pay 2 million to leave and then give up 1.5 left from last year's appearance and the equally or better pay out from this year. As I said, understand what you are saying but it still does not make any sense to me.

[davidnark]

OK I follow what you are saying but I am not sure why the money goes to the conference.

I didn't create the rules; I am just telling you how they work. The conference, not the school, earns the Units.

[davidnark]

Here is a great Forbes article on the topic from this past weekend. http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2013/03/17/marchs-monetary-madness-as-ncaas-collegiate-basketball-showcase-takes-center-stage/

Note the following:

Conferences receive a payout of one “unit” per each game that a program in their conference participates in throughoutMarch Madness. Thus, the more games that a team plays throughout March Madness, the more money their respective conference receives from the NCAA the following year.

In 2010-2011, one unit was worth approximately $222,206. In 2012-13, one unit is worth approximately $248,000 after clocking in at $245,656 in 2011-12. Furthermore, the NCAA pays conferences each season for the “units earned” over the course of the previous 6 seasons.

[davidnark]

So we need Cincinnati, ND, Louisville along with the teams that are staying to win, that is until we play them......new perspective on the brackets

Not necessarily. When the Big East schools finalized the legal terms of their split a two weeks ago, they certainly included some form of settlement related to the Units earned this year. It wouldn't surprise me if the Big East agreed that they would pay the revenue from Units earned by these schools this season back to the American 12.

[slu72 fan]

If this indeed is the case, letting X and Butler slide, I can understand. Both in the last decade done far more then us and UD in NCAA appearances. Both are taking a major hit on appearance units. Also, Butler took a hit probably to get out of the Horizon.

If this was a clean get away, stay another year in the A10 as a full member and have the Big East pick up the discounted exit fees, I would say stick it out. Now with this alternative of being a independent and with a nice nucleus of players returning, lets pay up and get out.

Again, if this is the alternative, Bondi pay the exit fee. Its not the time to go cheap.

I don't understand why Butler would get a break. Their units were grabbed by the Horizon League. Their only value to the A-10 is the units that they earn this year.

[Pistol]

Here is a great Forbes article on the topic from this past weekend. http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2013/03/17/marchs-monetary-madness-as-ncaas-collegiate-basketball-showcase-takes-center-stage/

Note the following:

So if we're in the Tournament earning units for the A10 that will apply next season, and we're stuck in the A10 one more season, why would they not allow us to play true conference games and compete in the conference tournament? Not that it's official- I'm basing my question on that info from the UMass thread.

Furthermore, if they're going to do that to us and Dayton next season, why wouldn't they have done that to Temple and Charlotte this season?

[Pistol]

I don't understand why Butler would get a break. Their units were grabbed by the Horizon League. Their only value to the A-10 is the units that they earn this year.

I don't think the A10 is letting them slide. It sounds like the Big East is going to buy out exit fees for Xavier and Butler and no one else. So they're breaking this season and the A10 can't punish them once they're gone.