Clock_Tower Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The coaches will care if theyre receiving less of a recruiting budget than other coaches in their conference. Do we only recruit against teams in our conference? +1 Shoe. Not sure if you meant the following but, IMO, the revenue disparity between SLU and its conference rivals (whether that is with the A10 schools or the C7 teams) is probably not as important as against other programs such as Mizzou, the Illini, SIUC, Mo State and now SIUE. We will never keep up with either an SEC team or a Big 10 team but, in the past, when the Valley schools had better coaches, facilities, players and success, it was more a reflection what's wrong at SLU than it was what's right with them. For years, our facilities were the worst - an absolute joke - but not anymore. For years, we had no booster and we hired coaches on the cheap. Now, we have Novelly and Chaifetz who got their check books out for RM and hopefully will do so for the next coach. For years, we did not have funds to hire (and keep) a strong assistant coach, to hire a strength coach, academic tutors, etc. Things finally changed with the hiring of RM and hopefully this continues as well. As long as we have a good coach, good attendance, good facilities and a good budget to hire not only the head coach but assistant coaches, a weight lifting coach and the ability to travel for recruiting trips, we will be a successful program. Would I prefer $5 million over $2 million? Sure. $2 million over $400,000? Sure. But large budgets are not needed to become a regular NCAA Tourney team. Now that we are in the post-RM phase, I doubt we will recruit from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Oregon, Wisconsin, etc. Instead, I see more local kids from the St. Louis area and more regional kids from Missouri, Illinois, etc. which, of course, is alot cheaper. As long as we are more attractive to both the local and regional players than MO State, SIUC, SIUE and are considered a viable alternative to Mizzou & the Illini, then the athletic budget of Georgetown and/or St. Johns really means nothing. Kids want to play for a top notch coach, which gets exposure (TV), which plays good "name" teams, which has success and which makes the Tourney. For years, quality kids have turned down BCS schools to play for X in the MCC, Butler in the Horizon Conference and Gonzaga in the WAC. IMO, this path to success is getting alot harder with the fact that the BCS schools are not playing as many non-conference games anymore and the ones they do play are mostly either tournament games or home "buy" games. Also, the pressure being put on the NCAA Selection Committee by the BCS is getting greater and greater such that now the non-BCS schools get less invites and worse seedings. Being in a conference with the C7 teams gives us the TV exposure and the ability to play good "name" teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 -I think we are in very dangerous territory if we continue to rely on a couple big donors to fund the ADept or a significant chunk of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 -I think we are in very dangerous territory if we continue to rely on a couple big donors to fund the ADept or a significant chunk of it Agreed. Which is why interest in the program must increase annual revenue(increased attendance, increased ratings/viewers for both televised games as well as radio broadcasts and increased sales of apparell) and then increased donations (from both large and small donors). Neither will happen if we play conference games in the A10 (without X, UD and Butler) as games against St. Bona, St. Joe, G. Washington, Richmond, Duquesne, Fordham and LaSalle just dont' create interest and excitement for among recruits/players, fans or business/media outlets and advertisers. Same with the Valley schools without Creighton. And trying to attract/retain a top-notch head coach based upon the current A10 revenue (or with Valley revenues) and with current levels of attendance, interest and donations is not good for the long-term. The $1 million salary paid to RM is already not enough anymore now that the elite coaches are making $3 million to $5 million while the next tier is full of guys making $1.5 million to $3 million. $2 million per year would improve the current situation and help fund the bare-bones athletic department (which has been funded in large part by a couple big donors) and games against Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown as well as X, Butler and Creighton/UD, etc. would bring excitement and interest. Even if Marquette and Georgetown bring in $5 million/year, our current competition and challenges are with ourselves and the Valley schools. $2 million/year will improve our current budget situation and allow us to grow into something special. When Spoon came to SLU and played at the new Kiel, played in the Great Midwest against Cincy, Memphis, Marquette and DePaul, SLU was a definite cut-above where he came from -- Mo State. Under the Soderberg years, we lost that advantage when Conf USA broke apart and our facilities aged even more. With the hiring of RM, completion of Chaifetz, improved play within the A-10, and now the addition of Butler and VCU, we regained that advantage over the Valley schools. We now face the risk of going backwards again if we don't join the C7. First, get in the new conference. Second, SLU will need to become an equal partner (revenue stream) in any new conference but will also need to both have success and increase revenues/donations/interest/ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 -so we built the arena and attendance has decreased, are we certain being in the proposed new conf increases attendance? will our non-conf scheduling change to bring more teams bball fans want to buy tix to see? will our new found conf schedule be more attractive to bball fans? will our tv ratings increase? -those are questions no one can answer with facts but there is only one way to find out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 -so we built the arena and attendance has decreased, are we certain being in the proposed new conf increases attendance? will our non-conf scheduling change to bring more teams bball fans want to buy tix to see? will our new found conf schedule be more attractive to bball fans? will our tv ratings increase?-those are questions no one can answer with facts but there is only one way to find out Our current attendance numbers are deceptively low when compared to modern historical attendance for two reasons. First, it is my understanding that at the old Savvis/Scottrade attendance was based upon tickets sold and distributed, not the actual number of people in attendance. Second, for many seasons SLU's attendance was artificially boosted by a single big game against a flashy opponent. Over the years this included Mizzou, UNC, a top-5 Gonzaga team, a top-ranked UMass team (Marcus Camby), KU, etc.. A single game with 20,000 significantly boosts the average attendance for the entire home season. I am not making excuses. The program needs more fans, more season tickets, more walk-ups, etc. Nonetheless, the historical numbers don't tell the entire story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i wish we had a single big game flashy opponent. those were the days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i wish we had a single big game flashy opponent. those were the days. Flashy big name opponents are becoming rare on all program's home OOC schedules. The influx of exempt tournaments and the rise of neutral site games are killing home OOC for all teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i wish we had a single big game flashy opponent. those were the days. So does every other above average non-Power 6 conference team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Well Washington was our "flashy" game last year. It was supposed to be the return of a local player (Scott Suggs) which is usually how our "flashy" games came about - KU (Ryan Robertson), Arizona (was for Andre Iguodola, getting him close to Springfield, Ill.) and of course UNC (Hansbrough). Build a consistent, successful program like XU and Gonzaga, and it becomes easier to schedule good nonconference opponents. Also, if we get into the BE, that will open up more good non-conference options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 There is only one issue for us. Whether or not we get in the B7 + X & Butler & Dayton. This round, not later if they expand. Make or break. All other issues are trivial, minor, almost irrelevant. All or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i have no problem with hooking the returning player game if it gets us a big name program. bring that game on every year! 2011 - washington 2006 - north carolina 2003 - Arizona 1998 - Kansas below are notable home games in the last 20 years that i dont recall were attachd to the returning local. i.e. didnt seem to be a problem to get a good game vs a tip top mid major or a bcs school in prior years. 2005 - Gonzaga 2004 - Kansas State 2003 - Butler 2002 - West Virginia 2001 - Mi$$ouri 2000 - California 1999 - Alabama 1999 - Mi$$ouri 1997 - Illinois 1997 - Vanderbilt 1996 - UCLA 1995 - UMass (#1 ranked) 1994 - Creighton 1992 - USC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i have no problem with hooking the returning player game if it gets us a big name program. bring that game on every year! 2011 - washington 2006 - north carolina 2003 - Arizona 1998 - Kansas below are notable home games in the last 20 years that i dont recall were attachd to the returning local. i.e. didnt seem to be a problem to get a good game vs a tip top mid major or a bcs school in prior years. 2005 - Gonzaga 2004 - Kansas State 2003 - Butler 2002 - West Virginia 2001 - Mi$$ouri 2000 - California 1999 - Alabama 1999 - Mi$$ouri 1997 - Illinois 1997 - Vanderbilt 1996 - UCLA 1995 - UMass (#1 ranked) 1994 - Creighton 1992 - USC So basically one a year with teams that are more or less equivalent (West Virginia, Butler, K-State and Cal were no great shakes when we played them) to: 2012 - New Mexico 2011 - Washington 2010 - Georgia 2009 - Nebraska 2008 - Boston College Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Good point so take out the four or five mediocre teams listed for the trade off of the 5 mediocre teams you listed. that only makes it look more one sided big games scheduled in the past compared to recent scheduling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Missouri and Illinois are the only games on there to write home about. We could have a home and home with Gonzaga, except they wanted some agreement to play not at two "neutral" sites. We now have a home and home with Butler. We could have a home and home wiht Creighton, but remember all the valley schools suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Good point so take out the four or five mediocre teams listed for the trade off of the 5 mediocre teams you listed. that only makes it look more one sided big games scheduled in the past compared to recent scheduling. So basically the games that we used to get that you want now are the UMass in 1995, UCLA in 1996, Mizzou games twice, Gonzaga in 2005 and any returning hometown games with top 15 programs. We know the story with Mizzou and if anybody thinks we are getting back to the days when we'll have an ESPN sponsored double header with Dickie V doing the games and Marquette-Temple as the under-card they need to have their head examined. Put another way, since we joined the A-10 we've had exactly one premier home game (Gonzaga) that wasn't the direct result of coaches trying to get their players a hometown game. Yet another reason to pray we get in the C7... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i have no problem with hooking the returning player game if it gets us a big name program. bring that game on every year! 2011 - washington 2006 - north carolina 2003 - Arizona 1998 - Kansas below are notable home games in the last 20 years that i dont recall were attachd to the returning local. i.e. didnt seem to be a problem to get a good game vs a tip top mid major or a bcs school in prior years. 2005 - Gonzaga 2004 - Kansas State 2003 - Butler 2002 - West Virginia 2001 - Mi$$ouri 2000 - California 1999 - Alabama 1999 - Mi$$ouri 1997 - Illinois 1997 - Vanderbilt 1996 - UCLA 1995 - UMass (#1 ranked) 1994 - Creighton 1992 - USC Come on Roy, Butler in 2002 was very mediocre when we played them that year. Hardly the Final Four darlings they later became. It was kind of like playing Valpo was this year. I recall our mediocre team that year handled Butler easily. Creighton from the Missouri Valley in 1994? Wow, you are really stretching to call that a really special game. Alabama? I seem to recall that was a part of some kind of tournament and they were nothing special around the time, about the equivalent of playing Georgia a couple years ago. Regarding SPUMAC and Illini, we all know they are both too chicken sh!t to play us now after we beat each of them at the Dome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i have no problem with hooking the returning player game if it gets us a big name program. bring that game on every year! 2011 - washington 2006 - north carolina 2003 - Arizona 1998 - Kansas below are notable home games in the last 20 years that i dont recall were attachd to the returning local. i.e. didnt seem to be a problem to get a good game vs a tip top mid major or a bcs school in prior years. 2005 - Gonzaga 2004 - Kansas State 2003 - Butler 2002 - West Virginia 2001 - Mi$$ouri 2000 - California 1999 - Alabama 1999 - Mi$$ouri 1997 - Illinois 1997 - Vanderbilt 1996 - UCLA 1995 - UMass (#1 ranked) 1994 - Creighton 1992 - USC Come on Roy, Butler in 2002 was very mediocre when we played them that year. Hardly the Final Four darlings they later became. It was kind of like playing Valpo was this year. I recall our mediocre team that year handled Butler easily. Creighton from the Missouri Valley in 1994? Wow, you are really stretching to call that a really special game. Alabama? I seem to recall that was a part of some kind of tournament and they were nothing special around the time, about the equivalent of playing Georgia a couple years ago. Regarding SPUMAC and Illini, we all know they are both too chicken sh!t to play us now after we beat each of them at the Dome. catch up ace, kshoe and i negotiated a settlement. i agreed to take out West Virginia, Butler, K-State and Cal and kshoe took out of consideration as bigtime New mexico, washington, nebraska, georgia and boston college. the subject is closed since the two biggest board knuckleheads, billiken roy and kshoe have reached a settlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Just for fun, here are some potential future OOC opponents for home game games giving a STL player a homecoming:Notre Dame - Cameron BiedschiedKansas - Ben McLemoreIllinois - Malcolm HillKansas State - DJ JohnsonArkansas - BJ YoungLess attractively (sorry ABomb)...Auburn - Jordon Granger Any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Just for fun, here are some potential future OOC opponents for home game games giving a STL player a homecoming: Notre Dame - Cameron Biedschied Kansas - Ben McLemore Illinois - Malcolm Hill Kansas State - DJ Johnson Arkansas - BJ Young Less attractively (sorry ABomb)... Auburn - Jordon Granger Any more? Unfortunately Young and Mclemore most likely won't be there by the time we'd schedule any of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Just for fun, here are some potential future OOC opponents for home game games giving a STL player a homecoming: Notre Dame - Cameron Biedschied Kansas - Ben McLemore Illinois - Malcolm Hill Kansas State - DJ Johnson Arkansas - BJ Young Less attractively (sorry ABomb)... Auburn - Jordon Granger Any more? I would guess that Notre Dame is the best shot. McLemore and Young are probably gone after this year and Hill plays only 2 hours from home. DJ Johnson and Jordan Granger probably aren't good enough to garner a homecoming game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I have an idea as to how we can get Marquette, Depaul and Creighton as home games every year and G-Town, Villanova, St. Johns every other year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Young and mclemore as nh said are first round picks. Mclemore is a lottery pick. Prob 2nd or 3rd imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Just for fun, here are some potential future OOC opponents for home game games giving a STL player a homecoming: Notre Dame - Cameron Biedschied Kansas - Ben McLemore Illinois - Malcolm Hill Kansas State - DJ Johnson Arkansas - BJ Young Less attractively (sorry ABomb)... Auburn - Jordon Granger Any more? I would guess that Notre Dame is the best shot. McLemore and Young are probably gone after this year and Hill plays only 2 hours from home. DJ Johnson and Jordan Granger probably aren't good enough to garner a homecoming game. My guess is K State is a strong possibility even without Johnson. Weber likes recruiting this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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