Zink Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hi all, thought I would jump in here as someone who will be looking at faculty positions within the next few years... I am currently a grad student (did my undergrad at SLU), who will be looking for jobs within the next 4-6 years (depending on post-doc opportunities, etc). It seems like a total farce and indicates a serious lack of judgment to do away with true-tenure at an institution trying to make it as a research institution. I would never consider even applying to a job at SLU if this were the case, even though I would love to return to my alma mater to live and work in my hometown. Tenured positions at research universities encourage groundbreaking ideas and research, and are theoretically only given to professors who have shown the ability (or potential) to do such work. The road to tenure is arduous and not for the light hearted - grants need to be won (in my field, only about 10% of applicants receive any particular grant), exceptional research must be conducted and published in high level journals, courses you teach must be rated highly by your students, you must show the ability to train graduate students, and you have to maintain a good rapport with the other faculty in your department and around campus. To have to justify your presence every few years would place the emphasis on working to find low-hanging fruit to research and write about, rather than working towards developing truly innovative and exciting research which does not always pan out. To discourage this type of ambition within your university is not a positive and could trickle down to the undergraduate students who no longer have labs to work in or professors who play a major part in their field. An example of this is the faculty member with whom I worked as an undergrad. As a sophomore, after having the study abroad program I was planning to participate in at Oxford through the honors college scraped (due to budgetary issues), I applied for a position in a lab. This faculty member has done exceptional research, is frequently cited, and is changing the way the field thinks. However, he recently decided to take a tenure track position at a different school, after noticing and feeling uncomfortable with the lack of support he had received in his time at SLU. There were also other reasons to go, but the lack of ambition within the school in terms of generating research was a definitely a concern of his. His grant money (some of which goes straight to the school), exciting research, and ability to train both undergrads and graduate students are now missing from the SLU community. I truly hope the university is able to turn around the atmosphere and encourage scholarship at every level - but that starts with the faculty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I am glad SLU costs $40,000 a year. Totally worth it.... /s Some serious changes need to come to SLU, and quick. This is getting ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatewaytonowhere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) This is a moronic proposal. No half decent faculty member would choose SLU if they abandon tenure unless SLU were to pay a salary premium vs. other institutions which they clearly are not doing: from http://www.slu.edu/o...t-recs_2012.pdf I also found this to be quite ridiculous: "5. Invitation to the President President Biondi recently spoke to M. Knuepfer regarding the merit pool salary freeze. The president believes he has already adequately defended the logic for the decision and will not attend a Faculty Senate meeting to explain further. He has offered to review a summary of faculty concerns regarding the decision. The FSEC is preparing this document and will send a response which reflects faculty concerns. " http://www.slu.edu/o..._Rpt_5-1-12.pdf Edited August 31, 2012 by gatewaytonowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Maybe metz could tweak his firebradsoderberg.com website to firelarrybiondi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Maybe metz could tweak his firebradsoderberg.com website to firelarrybiondi.com Where do we sign up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hell, someone with a bit of website design ability should buy that URL up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Maybe metz could tweak his firebradsoderberg.com website to firelarrybiondi.com like a world class lesbian, i'm just sick of the d!ckhead. i can't fathom paying $40k for the lump of sh!t educations they're handing out at SLU now. they have to acknowledge that he needs to get his fat ass dumped out on grand ASAP. i can get a very well recognized MBA from the university of colorado at boulder for $48k. SLU is a gotdamn joke right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The tenure review proposal has been dropped: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-drops-proposal-to-review-tenure/article_ec42ad44-4af7-527b-ab9b-f682d650b731.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We also had several Ivy League educated piers. We have nothing to be scared of. Period. Cheers. Go Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 like a world class lesbian, i'm just sick of the d!ckhead. i can't fathom paying $40k for the lump of sh!t educations they're handing out at SLU now. they have to acknowledge that he needs to get his fat ass dumped out on grand ASAP. i can get a very well recognized MBA from the university of colorado at boulder for $48k. SLU is a gotdamn joke right now. Do you actually have to take courses for that price or is that just for the MBA. All schools out to just have a few pricing plans that are suited to each individual students needs. 20K per year - yep, you gotta attend the classes and take the tests 25k per year - you gotta attend the classes, but no tests 30k per year - no classes, but you have to take some tests 40k per year - see you at graduation. Most students will still get the same quality of education, the school can save some money, but still get paid. Everyone's happy. I have answers for most the world's problems, it's just the rest of you motherfouckers aren't smart enough to listen despite your uppity education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-faculty-s-vote-of-no-confidence-is-historic/article_aea72a98-6f05-5bae-9c68-2628d33e675b.html "With a vote of 35-2, there is very clear message, at least within the faculty of arts and sciences, Manoj Patankar does not have our confidence to continue in this job," Lomperis said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarge Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 What faculty member would vote for someone who wants to setup a review system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk18 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 What faculty member would vote for someone who wants to setup a review system? Yeah as a graduate of SLU, I can say that the proposal was controversial for the professors, but it is a good one. I had some super lazy professors that did nothing because they were tenured. I mean I literally had half my classes cancelled and the other half were absolutely worthless. If they are doing their job, there is nothing to worry about in a once in every 6 year review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deutschkind Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Yeah as a graduate of SLU, I can say that the proposal was controversial for the professors, but it is a good one. I had some super lazy professors that did nothing because they were tenured. I mean I literally had half my classes cancelled and the other half were absolutely worthless. If they are doing their job, there is nothing to worry about in a once in every 6 year review. There are positives to reviewing professors, including tenured professors. However, the proposals seems to place the burden of proof on the professor to prove they are worth it, as opposed to the administration proving they are bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Yeah as a graduate of SLU, I can say that the proposal was controversial for the professors, but it is a good one. I had some super lazy professors that did nothing because they were tenured. I mean I literally had half my classes cancelled and the other half were absolutely worthless. If they are doing their job, there is nothing to worry about in a once in every 6 year review. You raise a good point. SLU, the Harvard of the Midwest, has great positioning power when it comes to retaining and attracting top-level talent. I have no idea how this proposal could backfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 What faculty member would vote for someone who wants to setup a review system? There must be two Biondi butt-boys among the College of Arts & Sciences faculty. #keefe'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 You raise a good point. SLU, the Harvard of the Midwest, has great positioning power when it comes to retaining and attracting top-level talent. I have no idea how this proposal could backfire. The only way to possibly make the proposal more attractive to current and potential faculty members would be to add an annual ceremony at which each faculty member would bow down and kiss Biondi's ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The only way to possibly make the proposal more attractive to current and potential faculty members would be to add an annual public ceremony at which each faculty member would bow down and kiss Biondi's ring. Fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm confused ... Seriously Is it good that Professors get Tenure? and why would that ever be a good thing? I understand that separating yourself from the pack and forcing a situation where you're either good or your gone when no one else is, might make it harder to attract professors, but doesn't someone have to lead the way? What I'm understanding from this thread is most think tenure is a bad thing. If that's so who should change it? If no one ever leads the way we're just stuck with a bad system because change is too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Tenure is an issue that honestly is much misunderstood. For some reason, people are under the impression that once someone gets tenure that they are protected for life regardless of the quality of their performance. This simply is not true. All tenure does is prevent the institution from firing you without just cause. You can still fire tenured people if they are not performing their job at a satisfactory level. The problem is it requires the administrator to actually do his/her job of evaluating. What happens is the administrator is lax in this process - which if done right takes time and effort - and so they simply hide behind the "he/she has tenure and so there is nothing I can do" premise which is not true. While I admit it is not simple to fire a tenured person it is doable. I would suggest that the administrator - who does not have tenure at that position - is the one who needs to be fired if they are unwilling to do their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm confused ... Seriously Is it good that Professors get Tenure? and why would that ever be a good thing? I understand that separating yourself from the pack and forcing a situation where you're either good or your gone when no one else is, might make it harder to attract professors, but doesn't someone have to lead the way? What I'm understanding from this thread is most think tenure is a bad thing. If that's so who should change it? If no one ever leads the way we're just stuck with a bad system because change is too hard. Skip. The best point made on this topic was the one questioning why it would be SLU to take on tenure. Harvard would be one thing. SLU quite another. In short, SLU lacks credibility among its peers, has been losing ground in the rankings for years, is extremely over-price (as are most private schools) and is turning out graduates to a jobless and stalled economy. Quite a few lesser accredited, less prestigious schools have gotten rid of tenure to save money. Lindenwood is one. Being a leader is one thing. Being the leader of the financially troubled or lower accredited schools is another. In general, though, a University is only as good as its teachers. Second rate teachers equal second rate school. Therefore, while it is important as to what the students, parents of the students and the general poplulation/Alums think on a given topic, it is probably more important as to what the teachers think. If SLU takes on the teachers and gets rid of tenure, then SLU will likely lose some of its better teachers in the short term. Now, if SLU wants to spend a ton of money, possibly use a portion of its endowment and take the topic on and truly be a leader for the long-term, then that is one thing. If, on the other hand, this is yet another sign of being cheap, tighfisted and power hungry by Fr. Biondi, then I fail to see how taking on its own teachers and bucking the long-established policy (whether deemed good or bad) of tenure will increase ther rankings of SLU, its Law School, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Registration Homecoming Registration is $10. Cost includes a $5 non-refundable processing fee (limit six people per group) and a $5 tax deductible gift to the Lawrence Biondi, S.J. 25th Anniversary Fund. Advance registration will close at 5 p.m. on Monday, September 24. Please make your reservations before the deadline. Depending on event capacity, limited on-site registration may be available near the main registration tent for an additional late fee. I wonder where that money goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Skip. The best point made on this topic was the one questioning why it would be SLU to take on tenure. Harvard would be one thing. SLU quite another. In short, SLU lacks credibility among its peers, has been losing ground in the rankings for years, is extremely over-price (as are most private schools) and is turning out graduates to a jobless and stalled economy. Quite a few lesser accredited, less prestigious schools have gotten rid of tenure to save money. Lindenwood is one. Being a leader is one thing. Being the leader of the financially troubled or lower accredited schools is another. In general, though, a University is only as good as its teachers. Second rate teachers equal second rate school. Therefore, while it is important as to what the students, parents of the students and the general poplulation/Alums think on a given topic, it is probably more important as to what the teachers think. If SLU takes on the teachers and gets rid of tenure, then SLU will likely lose some of its better teachers in the short term. Now, if SLU wants to spend a ton of money, possibly use a portion of its endowment and take the topic on and truly be a leader for the long-term, then that is one thing. If, on the other hand, this is yet another sign of being cheap, tighfisted and power hungry by Fr. Biondi, then I fail to see how taking on its own teachers and bucking the long-established policy (whether deemed good or bad) of tenure will increase ther rankings of SLU, its Law School, etc. Thanks, I get it. I'd have to really have a better understanding of Tenure and the process it grants a teacher to have an informed opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 According to an email, a second vote of no confidence passed the Faculty Senate tonight. On another note a friend stumbled across this video: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WUH Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Quite a few lesser accredited, less prestigious schools have gotten rid of tenure to save money. Lindenwood is one. Being a leader is one thing. Being the leader of the financially troubled or lower accredited schools is another. No college president had as much power and control over a university as Dennis Spellman when he was at the helm of Lindenwood. It may be worth mentioning that he eliminated tenure at Lindenwood. SLU was only preparing for measures that would weaken tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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