SLU Law moving downtown

[Bobby Metzinger]

Isn't Mayor Slay a SLU Law alum?

[jbizzle09]

you admit to not knowing a man then label him a "legal extortionist". the keefe family has been very successful as atty's not only in the belleville/st louis area but in the midwest. with that success they have been very benevolent with their success and have donated and supported many causes and helped many many people. i serve on a board of directors with tom keefe's brother and i can tell you that he is a prince of a man and the reputation of tom and the rest of the family is the same. Maybe tom, who like many of us, loves his alma mater and was approached to help with a difficult situation and agreed to serve a purpose until the position can be filled. the man knows many many many influential people and is well respected in his field and amongst fellow alumni. who better to try to put water on the flames then a man just like that and meanwhile assist in raising money needed to complete the new law school.

while i have admitted above that father biondi has apparently done wrong, i am sure that the outgoing dean did their share of contributions to the problem as well. as someone else pointed out, there is usually two sides to every story.

but one thing that is certain, the assassination of tom keefe's character by labeling him an extortionist was flat out wrong and over the line. tom keefe did nothing to deserve that shot and while it appears saint louis university has issues right now with it's law school and the school leader, i do not see where tom keefe deserved that.

I took the statement by Nark to be more about his opinion of Keefe's chosen profession as a personal injury lawyer, rather than an assessment of the man's actual character.

[SpartanBilliken]

Time for me to weigh in on the Biondi vs. SLU Law ex-dean story. Not looking to start an argument - just want to state my opinion.

Look, we all know Don Biondi likes to be in control of everything at SLU. The dean should have known as such when she took the position. Calling him out on some issues is definitely warranted, to a degree. But people calling him the worst Jesuit of all time and calling for his resignation are kidding themselves. ***Biondi is and continues to be a very successful businessman.*** Sometimes, hard decisions are exactly that - Hard to make. Has Biondi made mistakes in the past? Sure. But more often than not, he has made more correct hard decisions that do not get publicity because it's not a negative/newsworthy story (with my assumption that more publicity is usually about negative events). We must remember that he has turned this Midwest university into an internationally known Jesuit, Catholic University.

And remember, there are always 2 sides to every story. The ex-dean presented hers, and unfortunately we may never know Biondi's side. But who are you going to put your faith in in the long run success of the University... someone who held a dean position for less than a year? Or someone who has built the University, for more than 25 years, into what you see today?

[Pirahna]

Time for me to weigh in on the Biondi vs. SLU Law ex-dean story. Not looking to start an argument - just want to state my opinion. Look, we all know Don Biondi likes to be in control of everything at SLU. The dean should have known as such when she took the position. Calling him out on some issues is definitely warranted, to a degree. But people calling him the worst Jesuit of all time and calling for his resignation are kidding themselves. ***Biondi is and continues to be a very successful businessman.*** Sometimes, hard decisions are exactly that - Hard to make. Has Biondi made mistakes in the past? Sure. But more often than not, he has made more correct hard decisions that do not get publicity because it's not a negative/newsworthy story (with my assumption that more publicity is usually about negative events). We must remember that he has turned this Midwest university into an internationally known Jesuit, Catholic University. And remember, there are always 2 sides to every story. The ex-dean presented hers, and unfortunately we may never know Biondi's side. But who are you going to put your faith in in the long run success of the University... someone who held a dean position for less than a year? Or someone who has built the University, for more than 25 years, into what you see today?

Well said. I tend to agree with you. Naturally we are short term thinkers. But Biondi's track record speaks for itself, the man knows how to run a University as well as anybody. By doing so you have to make unpopular decisions. Just a month or two ago we were shouting from the mountain tops about how great the downtown law school was going to be for SLU, and now we are all upset about how some dean, who hasn't even unpacked her bags is upset that Biondi made a few decisions that disgruntled her. Sorry to upset her but this is going to happen at nearly any University which has has a strong leader at the helm, and the people screaming for his job are idiotic that some fledgling Law professor is going to take him down are downright stupid muckrakers. The facts of the matter Fr. B has taken SLU to heights unseen and will continue to until he decides to step down, end of story.

[RiseAndGrind]

Well said. I tend to agree with you. Naturally we are short term thinkers. But Biondi's track record speaks for itself, the man knows how to run a University as well as anybody. By doing so you have to make unpopular decisions. Just a month or two ago we were shouting from the mountain tops about how great the downtown law school was going to be for SLU, and now we are all upset about how some dean, who hasn't even unpacked her bags is upset that Biondi made a few decisions that disgruntled her. Sorry to upset her but this is going to happen at nearly any University which has has a strong leader at the helm, and the people screaming for his job are idiotic that some fledgling Law professor is going to take him down are downright stupid muckrakers. The facts of the matter Fr. B has taken SLU to heights unseen and will continue to until he decides to step down, end of story.

1) He transferred over $1,000,000 away from the law school

2) The Law School has not been taken to heights unseen. In fact it continues to falter.

We should all take your approach next time Majerus complains.

[Box and Won]

1) He transferred over $1,000,000 away from the law school

I'm guessing that from this point forward, donors and potential donors may be very concerned about what their donations are used for. Why donate to the Law School when Biondi can just shift the funds to his own discretionary account?

[Box and Won]

SLU just getting shat on here in the comments: http://abovethelaw.c...gnation-letter/

Great PR all around here.

That site has some billikens.com-caliber smart azzes posting in the comments section.

[Billiken Law]

Well said. I tend to agree with you. Naturally we are short term thinkers. But Biondi's track record speaks for itself, the man knows how to run a University as well as anybody. By doing so you have to make unpopular decisions. Just a month or two ago we were shouting from the mountain tops about how great the downtown law school was going to be for SLU, and now we are all upset about how some dean, who hasn't even unpacked her bags is upset that Biondi made a few decisions that disgruntled her. Sorry to upset her but this is going to happen at nearly any University which has has a strong leader at the helm, and the people screaming for his job are idiotic that some fledgling Law professor is going to take him down are downright stupid muckrakers. The facts of the matter Fr. B has taken SLU to heights unseen and will continue to until he decides to step down, end of story.

He HAD taken SLU to heights unseen but in the last few years the rankings of both the undergraduate program and the law school have dropped, the law school significantly, out of the 2nd tier in fact. Unfortunately outside of the midwest when I say "Saint Louis" the response is almost always "Wash U?" He did a great job with campus asethetics, finally building the arena, upgrading some of the athletics facilities, getting SLU into high profile conferences but I'm starting to see him becoming like Paterno at Penn State in regards to staying around too long and providing himself carte blanche to do whatever he wants, which includes screwing the law school and letting it drop 30 places in the US News rankings in 7 years while being passed by other Jesuit schools, all of which he considers "peer institutions" while faculty are leaving in droves, at least two-thirds were not there when I graduated.

[Cowboy]

-i think it has been posted on this board or perhaps in solicitations from the U that one of the criteria used to rank a school are alumni donations, so perhaps that has something to do with the sliding law school ranking as i don't know how many law alumni are out there, but $1mil is not a big number in today's terms ($1000 times 1000 givers), but i confess i give much more (relative numbers, neither number is big) to the BClub than to Biz School

-it seems like we mirror society on this board, as topics on Rick or recruits or scheduling or law school or anything we get into here there are polar opposites and not a lot of middle ground as in the law school thing it appears there are FrB haters who seem to despise that he is able to take a breath and FrB defenders who say he is great

[Pistol]

SpartanBilliken and Pirahna, it took a little longer for people to make the "yeah, but we're so much better off as a whole than a few decades ago" argument, but your reasoning still troubles me. It's the kind of reasoning that allows people to overlook terrible behavior in a sports program so they can rationalize their fanhood (case in point, people still defending Penn State). I don't think overall general improvement over the course of 25+ years gives Biondi a free pass to act like a dictator. He needs to be held accountable. If he's unwilling to accept that, he needs to step down. It's a shame he's been allowed to act like this for so long.

The rankings of the law school and the University as a whole are dropping. The law school is at 101 (third tier!) and trending in the wrong direction- probably even more dramatically so after yesterday's news.

Also, does Biondi really deserve all the credit for the previously "unseen heights" the University has reached? I'll give him credit on good decisions but he deserves to be questioned when things don't go well or when he makes bad decisions. And he deserves to be held accountable for all decisions, which apparently has never been the case. Having a president with unchecked power is scary. And people who question that aren't "downright stupid muckrakers," either.

Plus, his behavior is in clear opposition to the school's mission statement. Here it is, for reference: http://www.slu.edu/x5021.xml

The second and seventh bullets seem to be particularly violated by Biondi in this case.

[Pistol]

you admit to not knowing a man then label him a "legal extortionist". the keefe family has been very successful as atty's not only in the belleville/st louis area but in the midwest. with that success they have been very benevolent with their success and have donated and supported many causes and helped many many people. i serve on a board of directors with tom keefe's brother and i can tell you that he is a prince of a man and the reputation of tom and the rest of the family is the same. Maybe tom, who like many of us, loves his alma mater and was approached to help with a difficult situation and agreed to serve a purpose until the position can be filled. the man knows many many many influential people and is well respected in his field and amongst fellow alumni. who better to try to put water on the flames then a man just like that and meanwhile assist in raising money needed to complete the new law school.

while i have admitted above that father biondi has apparently done wrong, i am sure that the outgoing dean did their share of contributions to the problem as well. as someone else pointed out, there is usually two sides to every story.

but one thing that is certain, the assassination of tom keefe's character by labeling him an extortionist was flat out wrong and over the line. tom keefe did nothing to deserve that shot and while it appears saint louis university has issues right now with it's law school and the school leader, i do not see where tom keefe deserved that.

Roy, just because he's from Belleville doesn't mean you have to defend him. Seems like Nark was pointing out his profession, not his personality. He could be a great guy or a horrible guy, but the fact of the matter is that Biondi chose a donor and a plaintiff's trial lawyer over a faculty member or someone else from the academic community. He rewards cronies and yes men and ignores everyone else.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, just because he's from Belleville doesn't mean you have to defend him. Seems like Nark was pointing out his profession, not his personality. He could be a great guy or a horrible guy, but the fact of the matter is that Biondi chose a donor and a plaintiff's trial lawyer over a faculty member or someone else from the academic community. He rewards cronies and yes men and ignores everyone else.

i know the family. shoot me. they are worth defending. second, tom keefe has been a substantial saint louis university alum/booster for years. third, even if the attempt (poorly worded in my opinion, but on second read, i can see that) was to condemn his chosen legal field, there is a place for plaintiff attorney's in the world. i dont think success as a plaintiff's atty = extortionist necessarily.

we are lucky a man of tom keefe's credentials, loyalty, and passion has stepped forward for saint louis university, and the law school.

[Pistol]

i know the family. shoot me. they are worth defending. second, tom keefe has been a substantial saint louis university alum/booster for years. third, even if the attempt (poorly worded in my opinion, but on second read, i can see that) was to condemn his chosen legal field, there is a place for plaintiff attorney's in the world. i dont think success as a plaintiff's atty = extortionist necessarily.

we are lucky a man of tom keefe's credentials, loyalty, and passion has stepped forward for saint louis university, and the law school.

That's my point- in Biondi's SLU, donors get jobs that some faculty members might have been directing their careers toward. He might be a great guy and a good fit for this interim job, but naming a donor from outside the law school interim dean seems to confirm everything the last dean just said about Biondi.

[billiken_roy]

i wasnt disputing anything ex dean said. i am only defending tom keefe.

[Box and Won]

it seems like we mirror society on this board, as topics on Rick or recruits or scheduling or law school or anything we get into here there are polar opposites and not a lot of middle ground as in the law school thing it appears there are FrB haters who seem to despise that he is able to take a breath and FrB defenders who say he is great

It seems to usually break down by people who went to SLU during Biondi's presidency vs. people who went to SLU pre-Biondi. Both sides can make valid points for and against him.

[kshoe]

-i think it has been posted on this board or perhaps in solicitations from the U that one of the criteria used to rank a school are alumni donations, so perhaps that has something to do with the sliding law school ranking as i don't know how many law alumni are out there, but $1mil is not a big number in today's terms ($1000 times 1000 givers), but i confess i give much more (relative numbers, neither number is big) to the BClub than to Biz School

I don't think it was said that the $1mm that Biondi moved from the law school was ALL of their donations. It may have only been 10% for all we know. The point is, if someone donates to the Law School, they most likely want it to remain in the Law School and not be used for statues, sports arenas or whatever.

[Pistol]

I don't think it was said that the $1mm that Biondi moved from the law school was ALL of their donations. It may have only been 10% for all we know. The point is, if someone donates to the Law School, they most likely want it to remain in the Law School and not be used for statues, sports arenas or whatever.

But the fact that it very well might not remain in the law school should be enough for many alums not to donate.

[SpartanBilliken]

SpartanBilliken and Pirahna, it took a little longer for people to make the "yeah, but we're so much better off as a whole than a few decades ago" argument, but your reasoning still troubles me. It's the kind of reasoning that allows people to overlook terrible behavior in a sports program so they can rationalize their fanhood (case in point, people still defending Penn State). I don't think overall general improvement over the course of 25+ years gives Biondi a free pass to act like a dictator. He needs to be held accountable. If he's unwilling to accept that, he needs to step down. It's a shame he's been allowed to act like this for so long. The rankings of the law school and the University as a whole are dropping. The law school is at 101 (third tier!) and trending in the wrong direction- probably even more dramatically so after yesterday's news. Also, does Biondi really deserve all the credit for the previously "unseen heights" the University has reached? I'll give him credit on good decisions but he deserves to be questioned when things don't go well or when he makes bad decisions. And he deserves to be held accountable for all decisions, which apparently has never been the case. Having a president with unchecked power is scary. And people who question that aren't "downright stupid muckrakers," either. Plus, his behavior is in clear opposition to the school's mission statement. Here it is, for reference: http://www.slu.edu/x5021.xml The second and seventh bullets seem to be particularly violated by Biondi in this case.

Pistol, I definitely hear what you're saying, which is why it took me so long to respond and formulate my response in my first post. I do believe peole need to be held accountable for their actions, Biondi especially as President of the University. But I must emphasize again what I said in my first post - how many stories are there of good to great decisions that Biondi has made that aren't discussed as fervently on blogs, etc? There are plenty, which is why he is consistenly named among the top St. Louis business leaders every year. I agree, the national ranking and SLU law rankings have been falling. But I have first hand knowledge that the so-called "criteria" that make up these rankings were not a focus of the admiinistration over the last few years. SLU brought in a new VP for Enrollment and Retention Management, to address exactly this issue, who not only has been charged with increasing the overall profile of the SLU student (which is one of the criteria), but also to key the University and the administration in on exactly what needs to be done in order to increase SLU's national ranking in the immediate and sustained future. This new VP (who actually has been here for about a year now) is very much a national player in the field of higher education and has a good relationship with the "top guy" at US News & World Report rankings.

I agree that he needs to be held accountable for all actions, and I hope this law school dean fiasco might be a step in the correct direction to remedy this.

The mission statement is open to interpretation, the 7th bullet point more so than the 2nd. As for the 7th, we don't know for sure whether Biondi is or is not wisely allocating resources as we don't know where the money he took from the law school is going. For all we know, it could be going to helping sustain/keep alive other programs on campus that don't generate the revenue that the law school does - as had been stated before, law schools are generally cash cows. In order to keep all programs alive and in existence at SLU, the revenue-generating programs will have to support the non-revenue generating programs (works the same way with athletic programs everywhere).

Thanks for the lively discussion Pistol, et al.

[MUTGR]

Pistol, I definitely hear what you're saying, which is why it took me so long to respond and formulate my response in my first post. I do believe peole need to be held accountable for their actions, Biondi especially as President of the University. But I must emphasize again what I said in my first post - how many stories are there of good to great decisions that Biondi has made that aren't discussed as fervently on blogs, etc? There are plenty, which is why he is consistenly named among the top St. Louis business leaders every year. I agree, the national ranking and SLU law rankings have been falling. But I have first hand knowledge that the so-called "criteria" that make up these rankings were not a focus of the admiinistration over the last few years. SLU brought in a new VP for Enrollment and Retention Management, to address exactly this issue, who not only has been charged with increasing the overall profile of the SLU student (which is one of the criteria), but also to key the University and the administration in on exactly what needs to be done in order to increase SLU's national ranking in the immediate and sustained future. This new VP (who actually has been here for about a year now) is very much a national player in the field of higher education and has a good relationship with the "top guy" at US News & World Report rankings.

I agree that he needs to be held accountable for all actions, and I hope this law school dean fiasco might be a step in the correct direction to remedy this.

The mission statement is open to interpretation, the 7th bullet point more so than the 2nd. As for the 7th, we don't know for sure whether Biondi is or is not wisely allocating resources as we don't know where the money he took from the law school is going. For all we know, it could be going to helping sustain/keep alive other programs on campus that don't generate the revenue that the law school does - as had been stated before, law schools are generally cash cows. In order to keep all programs alive and in existence at SLU, the revenue-generating programs will have to support the non-revenue generating programs (works the same way with athletic programs everywhere).

Thanks for the lively discussion Pistol, et al.

Sure, law schools historically have been cash cows when for years they could honestly state that 90% or more of the graduates were employed within 6 months at high median salaries with enough of their top grads pullling down six figure starting salaries at the biggest firms. I wonder if this will continue now with employment rates in the 50% range or lower for new grads right now, tuition at $36k per year, and students looking at perhaps $100k or more in debt when they come out. I don't know that the current law school as cash cow model is sustainable. Perhaps it is.

[brianstl]

i know the family. shoot me. they are worth defending. second, tom keefe has been a substantial saint louis university alum/booster for years. third, even if the attempt (poorly worded in my opinion, but on second read, i can see that) was to condemn his chosen legal field, there is a place for plaintiff attorney's in the world. i dont think success as a plaintiff's atty = extortionist necessarily.

we are lucky a man of tom keefe's credentials, loyalty, and passion has stepped forward for saint louis university, and the law school.

What are Keefe's credentials for running a law school?

[Iggy]

If Biondi took the money to pay for chartered flights for our basketball team, I'm good with it all.

[jbizzle09]

What are Keefe's credentials for running a law school?

That is really the main point, isn't it? Someone can be a wonderful person and great friend, but does that mean the person is qualified to do a certain job? Basically, from what I know, Keefe has run a private law firm for over 30 years that has dealt mostly with personal injuries and medical malpractices. I have no knowledge of him teaching law or being involved in the academic side of it. It seems to me that his biggest qualification for this position is that he has donated money over the years and is a SLU Law alum. I think it is awfully fair of people to question this move by Biondi.

[Pistol]

SLU brought in a new VP for Enrollment and Retention Management, to address exactly this issue, who not only has been charged with increasing the overall profile of the SLU student (which is one of the criteria), but also to key the University and the administration in on exactly what needs to be done in order to increase SLU's national ranking in the immediate and sustained future. This new VP (who actually has been here for about a year now) is very much a national player in the field of higher education and has a good relationship with the "top guy" at US News & World Report rankings.

For all we know, it could be going to helping sustain/keep alive other programs on campus that don't generate the revenue that the law school does - as had been stated before, law schools are generally cash cows. In order to keep all programs alive and in existence at SLU, the revenue-generating programs will have to support the non-revenue generating programs (works the same way with athletic programs everywhere).

Was that VP brought in for the school as a whole, or just the law school? Just wondering.

SLU Law grew dramatically in enrollment for years and finally appears to have hit a plateau. This trend wasn't unique to SLU, as law schools everywhere got greedy by lowering standards, stuffing as many students as possible in there, and not necessarily devoting the necessary level of resources to sustain that growth. Then the law grads have to hit the streets with mountains of debt on their backs, and are finding that the jobs simply aren't out there right now. Supply and demand are grossly out of whack in that field and SLU Law wasn't above chasing the bubble and helping it burst. It's a shame Biondi looked at it as a cash cow while SLU Law grads are paying the price.

My fear is that SLU has been doing the same thing in the undergrad world, even if not to the same degree. Seems like every year when I get the message from the President or whatever it's called, Biondi is bragging about the "largest incoming freshman class in SLU history" - why is that a good thing? There was a housing shortage on campus when I was there, and I haven't seen any new buildings pop up since then. There was a classroom shortage one semester when I was there, too. Instead of "largest class ever" messages, I want to see "highest GPA ever" and "best SAT and ACT scores ever" and so forth. I hope that the new VP you reference is working on that instead of just putting more SLU grads into a barren job market once they've gotten as much tuition revenue as possible.

[SpartanBilliken]

Was that VP brought in for the school as a whole, or just the law school? Just wondering.

SLU Law grew dramatically in enrollment for years and finally appears to have hit a plateau. This trend wasn't unique to SLU, as law schools everywhere got greedy by lowering standards, stuffing as many students as possible in there, and not necessarily devoting the necessary level of resources to sustain that growth. Then the law grads have to hit the streets with mountains of debt on their backs, and are finding that the jobs simply aren't out there right now. Supply and demand are grossly out of whack in that field and SLU Law wasn't above chasing the bubble and helping it burst. It's a shame Biondi looked at it as a cash cow while SLU Law grads are paying the price.

My fear is that SLU has been doing the same thing in the undergrad world, even if not to the same degree. Seems like every year when I get the message from the President or whatever it's called, Biondi is bragging about the "largest incoming freshman class in SLU history" - why is that a good thing? There was a housing shortage on campus when I was there, and I haven't seen any new buildings pop up since then. There was a classroom shortage one semester when I was there, too. Instead of "largest class ever" messages, I want to see "highest GPA ever" and "best SAT and ACT scores ever" and so forth. I hope that the new VP you reference is working on that instead of just putting more SLU grads into a barren job market once they've gotten as much tuition revenue as possible.

VP for the university as a whole. not specific to the law school.

this year, we did not have the largest class in school history, but did improve the overall gpa, SAT/ACT scores. The average gpa/test scores have been improving every year for many years now. We are getting to the point now where we try to "shape" our class as opposed to just "filling" our class, and that is exactly what the new VP is trying to accomplish.

[3Bill]

This whole fiasco is typical of Biondi, only its been made public by a Dean who had the guts to air things out. As an alum with 2 degrees including a law degree, I am embarassed by this situation. Several years ago, we lost an excellent AD in Cheryl Levick after Biondi pulled the rug out from under her and fired a basketball coach without even discussing it with her. He pushed out several excellent Jesuits including Father Doody simply because they had backbones. The man is running a school all by himself. HE NEEDS TO GO.

I will not comment about Tom Keefe because I do not know him personally. However, as an attorney I can tell you that the departure of Dean Clark and the chosen replacement would not have been something favored by about 99% of the legal community. Before Father Biondi made this decision, he clearly did not even bother to consult with anyone who knows anything about the legal community or about running a law school.

The law school will have a rough year. If you think a Harvard educated former supreme court clerk (which is what the top law professors are) is going to be impressed by the prospect of working in a cubicle (yes, Biondi has taken away the professors' offices in the new building) and for a plaintiff personal injury who makes millions suing hospitals and universities (Yes, Tom Keefe likely has sued SLU once or twice) and has not stepped foot in a law school since graduating 30 something years ago and has never published anything scholarly, then you are living in the same lala land as Father Biondi.

This decision, like every other one Father Biondi has made, was based on his ego and his greed. Dean Clark must have ticked him off and the job probably went to the highest bidder willing to act as a yes man.

I'm more worried about what this means for the basketball program than anything else. If Biondi will do this to the law school dean, then don't be surprised if he does something similar with Majerus, just like he did Soderberg.