Annual Plea for SLU Football

[billiken_roy]

that girl looks very warm. i wonder if her air conditioning is not working. maybe she lives in texas.

[Box and Won]

The only way football would even stand a chance at SLU was if they got awesome helmets like Maryland

The helmets are so awesome they would attract players and fans from around the globe.

Hell if the basketball team would agree to wear them for a few games the fetz would be sold out every night and Jessie and the Rippers would be calling and asking to play the national anthem.

I'm thinking we could do something similar using the official flag of the city of St. Louis:

[bk18]

I'm all for it.

It's a means to getting into a good conference. It likely will take 20+ years to show its benefits but in the end it will be worth it.

[billikenfan05]

I'm all for it.

It's a means to getting into a good conference. It likely will take 20+ years to show its benefits but in the end it will be worth it.

We know you are. If I thought for one second that the students/community would support it I would change my mind. I am convinced that the administration would try to do it on the cheap...that's not something I'd support.

[billiken_roy]

We know you are. If I thought for one second that the students/community would support it I would change my mind. I am convinced that the administration would try to do it on the cheap...that's not something I'd support.

Exactly. Good post 05. Prove to everyone by opening the vault to our existing athletic dept. Give the budget for first class travel and marketing and recruiting and facilities for ALL sports. The success that would follow would then make exploration into new sports possible. But going at expansion with the same thinking as our existing programs will only cut needed funds across the board for what we already have.

[TheA_Bomb]

It seems to me that trying to build a football program from scratch in a non-BCS conference without an on-campus facility would be an enormous waste of time, money, and resources. It would take decades and tens to hundreds of millions of dollars to build a respectable program, if it could even be done.

I would much rather see those dollars invested in once again getting our soccer program among the elite programs in the country and establishing our basketball program as a regular NCAA tournament participant.

I am also anxiously awaiting definitive reassurances that the Rams will permanently remain in St. Louis. The NFL is so much better than college football anyway.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I just can't agree with NFL being better than college. I love the NFL but college football for me and my family is a religious experience. I'm talking crazy jihadist religious not just go once a week religious. The traditions the bands the bragging rights are unparalleled. I will say this is mostly due to my family being from the South and being Auburn fans. In other areas of the country it just isn't the same.

I do agree that SLU shouldn't try football as it will be bad for multiple reasons. No excitement generated by a lower tier program, lack of support financially, and just general lack of quality recruits in the area.

SLU has to look to other way to enrich the student experience getting to the NCAA tournament would be nice. Enhancing some traditions we do have or resurrecting old ones would be nice.

[jbizzle09]

While I would love to go out on a fall Saturday afternoon and root for the gridiron Billikens, the idea of SLU fielding a FBS football team in anything close to the near future is a pipe dream. It just isn't in the cards, not now nor 20 years from now.

Currently, there are 120 FBS teams. Out of those teams, 16 are fielded by private universities. Out of those 16, only 2 are private Catholic universities (Notre Dame and Boston College) with BC being the sole Jesuit one. Out of these 16 schools, they all have fielded teams since 1926, with all but two of them having had teams in place since before the 20th century. As we all know, SLU hasn't fielded a team since 1949 and doesn't even have a club team in place right now.

I can point to a number of other reasons surrounding costs, academic integrity, lack of facilities, etc. However, I just don't see the demand from either those on campus or in the city for a college football team. People in St. Louis appear to be fine rooting for Mizzou or Illinois and traveling to those games. Other than the occassional SLU alum or student, I just don't hear the outcry for a SLU football team.

[slu72]

While I would love to go out on a fall Saturday afternoon and root for the gridiron Billikens, the idea of SLU fielding a FBS football team in anything close to the near future is a pipe dream. It just isn't in the cards, not now nor 20 years from now.

Currently, there are 120 FBS teams. Out of those teams, 16 are fielded by private universities. Out of those 16, only 2 are private Catholic universities (Notre Dame and Boston College) with BC being the sole Jesuit one. Out of these 16 schools, they all have fielded teams since 1926, with all but two of them having had teams in place since before the 20th century. As we all know, SLU hasn't fielded a team since 1949 and doesn't even have a club team in place right now.

I can point to a number of other reasons surrounding costs, academic integrity, lack of facilities, etc. However, I just don't see the demand from either those on campus or in the city for a college football team. People in St. Louis appear to be fine rooting for Mizzou or Illinois and traveling to those games. Other than the occassional SLU alum or student, I just don't hear the outcry for a SLU football team.

It is disconcerting to see schools that have nowhere near the endowment of SLU fielding a football team. But forget going BCS unless we have a donor out there like Boone Pickens who'd be willing to foot the entire bill. And if we went BCS do you think we'd ever get the kind of fan participation of say a Ohio St., LSU, Alabama to sustain it? Never in a million years. The question really is what benefit is it to the school other than providing students an activity to attend on Saturday afternoons? I agree w/ Broy, first things first and that means taking better care of the BB team. This admin still does not seem to realize that by having a nationally recognized hoops program, ala Zaga, Butler, X, helps the school across the board and not just on the athletic field. Hearing how RM funded part of the Canada trip is sad. Hearing that the original trip down under was cancelled is sad. Yes, we invested in a big new fancy arena, and, yes, two big donors stepped up to pay RM's big salary, but then the admin goes el cheapo. That's not a commitment to having a nationally recognized program. It's not even a half a** attempt at getting to where we need to be. Sadly, this probably isn't changing until we get a new leader who hopefully sees the light. Students, alums, local benefactors would get behind an X type program because there's a lot of pride involved. You wear Billiken gear outside of St.L and you always seem to get a comment, mostly from older folks, like, "you guys used to be pretty good in basketball back in the 40s and the 50s." It'd be nice to have this updated.

[Cowboy]

It is disconcerting to see schools that have nowhere near the endowment of SLU fielding a football team. But forget going BCS unless we have a donor out there like Boone Pickens who'd be willing to foot the entire bill. And if we went BCS do you think we'd ever get the kind of fan participation of say a Ohio St., LSU, Alabama to sustain it? Never in a million years. The question really is what benefit is it to the school other than providing students an activity to attend on Saturday afternoons? I agree w/ Broy, first things first and that means taking better care of the BB team. This admin still does not seem to realize that by having a nationally recognized hoops program, ala Zaga, Butler, X, helps the school across the board and not just on the athletic field. Hearing how RM funded part of the Canada trip is sad. Hearing that the original trip down under was cancelled is sad. Yes, we invested in a big new fancy arena, and, yes, two big donors stepped up to pay RM's big salary, but then the admin goes el cheapo. That's not a commitment to having a nationally recognized program. It's not even a half a** attempt at getting to where we need to be. Sadly, this probably isn't changing until we get a new leader who hopefully sees the light. Students, alums, local benefactors would get behind an X type program because there's a lot of pride involved. You wear Billiken gear outside of St.L and you always seem to get a comment, mostly from older folks, like, "you guys used to be pretty good in basketball back in the 40s and the 50s." It'd be nice to have this updated.

-as to the funding or support of the current sports and the trip the team just took, do we know the ath dept revenue and expense level over the past few years? has the level of giving increased or surpassed the level of expense? in other words, how are the finances of the ath dept? how are donations to the Billiken Club? i would imagine the lack of success from the money generator, mbball, has had some impact on both giving, ticket revenue and sponsorship dollars. it is very easy to spend someone else's money and i am guilty of that at times myself

[Bobby Metzinger]

While I would love to go out on a fall Saturday afternoon and root for the gridiron Billikens, the idea of SLU fielding a FBS football team in anything close to the near future is a pipe dream. It just isn't in the cards, not now nor 20 years from now.

Currently, there are 120 FBS teams. Out of those teams, 16 are fielded by private universities. Out of those 16, only 2 are private Catholic universities (Notre Dame and Boston College) with BC being the sole Jesuit one. Out of these 16 schools, they all have fielded teams since 1926, with all but two of them having had teams in place since before the 20th century. As we all know, SLU hasn't fielded a team since 1949 and doesn't even have a club team in place right now.

I can point to a number of other reasons surrounding costs, academic integrity, lack of facilities, etc. However, I just don't see the demand from either those on campus or in the city for a college football team. People in St. Louis appear to be fine rooting for Mizzou or Illinois and traveling to those games. Other than the occassional SLU alum or student, I just don't hear the outcry for a SLU football team.

Villanova has an offer to join the Big East, but with Title IX issues and a serious upgrade in facilities a huge hurdle, they could be the third Catholic school in FBS play. But obviously this goes to show you how slow and tedious of a process it is for a school in a top-10 media market to join the ranks of the BCS conferences. I'm surprised the Big East reached out to another Philly school after essentially forcing Temple to leave in '04. They should have done the same to Syracuse too.

[Box and Won]

Villanova has an offer to join the Big East, but with Title IX issues and a serious upgrade in facilities a huge hurdle, they could be the third Catholic school in FBS play. But obviously this goes to show you how slow and tedious of a process it is for a school in a top-10 media market to join the ranks of the BCS conferences. I'm surprised the Big East reached out to another Philly school after essentially forcing Temple to leave in '04. They should have done the same to Syracuse too.

Villanova also ended its football program at one point and brought it back in the mid-80s. From what I understand, it didn't take long for them to start fielding a competitive team, and they won the FCS/I-AA championship in 2009.

[Bay Area Billiken]

It would probably not be a money-maker, at least for the first many years, but I do think that some sort of football would really help recruiting, esp. male, students. As a tour guide, I was constantly being asked "Is there a football team?" or "How do you think your experience has been affected by having no football?" I would reply with "We have so much fun at the basketball games," or " I get to stay a huge Ohio State fan, and everyone watches games together on Saturday." It would be so much better to be able to reply, "We don't have a big name program, but our games are still a blast to go to and so many people get behind our Billikens in the fall."

Quincy resurrected football for a stated reason of increasing enrollment, and it has done so. One reason the football coach survived an 0-11 season is because he "fills beds," as in approximately 93 players this season, plus the ancillary effects- band, cheerleaders, etc. I realize that Quincy and SLU are not in the same situation from an enrollment standpoint. Getting 100 students, many of whom would not otherwise be there is a big thing for a school of 1,292 students, with that number being a recent high number.

It is doubtful that Quincy and Fordham make significant money from football. Money is made by FBS schools, particularly BCS. But football is still a good marketing tool, and there is an economic benefit from school visibility. It has often been said that Doug Flutie put Boston College on the map; that football team transformed BC from a regional commuter school into a nationally ranked college.

Dayton plays FCS non-scholarship football, as do Duquesne and San Diego, all Catholic schools. Fellow Jesuit schools, Holy Cross and Georgetown, are in the Patriot League in football, and both play Fordham. Those are important rivalries, not noticed nationally, but well known on their campuses and amongst alumni. They are hardly worthless exhibitions.

A 4 year starter at QB for Fordham, John Skelton, was drafted in the 5th Round by the Arizona Cardinals, and played at the end of last season for the Big Red.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Villanova has an offer to join the Big East, but with Title IX issues and a serious upgrade in facilities a huge hurdle, they could be the third Catholic school in FBS play. But obviously this goes to show you how slow and tedious of a process it is for a school in a top-10 media market to join the ranks of the BCS conferences. I'm surprised the Big East reached out to another Philly school after essentially forcing Temple to leave in '04. They should have done the same to Syracuse too.

Big East wants to have football in the Philadelphia market. This could go either way at Villanova. I've been told Villanova cannot expand its on campus stadium and would have to make a huge upgrade to its training facility. Temple has first dibs at Lincoln Financial Field, so Villanova football would play at the MLS soccer stadium, well away from the Villanova campus.

I should have mentioned Villanova as a Catholic school with football, at the FCS (D1-AA) level, where the scholarship number is 65, as opposed to 85 at D-1. Villanova won the FCS national championship 2 seasons ago.

I realize football at SLU is a pipe dream that will probably never happen. But my opinion remains that SLU should have a football team.

[billiken_roy]

Quincy resurrected football for a stated reason of increasing enrollment, and it has done so. One reason the football coach survived an 0-11 season is because he "fills beds," as in approximately 93 players this season, plus the ancillary effects- band, cheerleaders, etc. I realize that Quincy and SLU are not in the same situation from an enrollment standpoint. Getting 100 students, many of whom would not otherwise be there is a big thing for a school of 1,292 students, with that number being a recent high number.

It is doubtful that Quincy and Fordham make significant money from football. Money is made by FBS schools, particularly BCS. But football is still a good marketing tool, and there is an economic benefit from school visibility. It has often been said that Doug Flutie put Boston College on the map; that football team transformed BC from a regional commuter school into a nationally ranked college.

Dayton plays FCS non-scholarship football, as do Duquesne and San Diego, all Catholic schools. Fellow Jesuit schools, Holy Cross and Georgetown, are in the Patriot League in football, and both play Fordham. Those are important rivalries, not noticed nationally, but well known on their campuses and amongst alumni. They are hardly worthless exhibitions.

A 4 year starter at QB for Fordham, John Skelton, was drafted in the 5th Round by the Arizona Cardinals, and played at the end of last season for the Big Red.

i dont know the answer to this but i would suspect that each division of the ncaa treats title IX differently. plus, to compete in D1 would require substantially more funds to match coaching, recruiting, facilities and overhead.

D3 football programs do not specifically give athletic scholarships. so right there the biggest expense is gone. and expectations of D3 athletics allow the schools to provide a much smaller scale to the expenses of coaching, recruiting, facilities and overhead. it is not unususal for a coach at a D3 school to also be employed in another area of the school.

same with the NAIA situation. those coaches frequently wear two hats. and most NAIA schools have no caps on scholarships or how they are used. many of my daughter's high school and select teamates have NAIA "scholarships" to play ball, but in reality they are probably more of a discount for tuition to get the student in school. Mckendree for example has more athletes associated with their school athletic programs than saint louis university. but i would bet slu spends a higher percentage of money on student athletic scholarships than McKendree does

[Bay Area Billiken]

Villanova also ended its football program at one point and brought it back in the mid-80s. From what I understand, it didn't take long for them to start fielding a competitive team, and they won the FCS/I-AA championship in 2009.

Correct re Villanova. Villanova is very competitive at the FCS (D-1AA Level), so much so that Villanova is weighing a Big East football invitation.

Out here, alumni from Santa Clara and St. Mary's, are still upset that those schools dropped football, both in more recent times. The football issue continues to be raised in high places at Santa Clara. There are lesser options in California for high school football players who aren't good enough for FBS schools. That Santa Clara v. St. Mary's football game was a big rivalry game too.

[davidnark]

Villanova has an offer to join the Big East, but with Title IX issues and a serious upgrade in facilities a huge hurdle, they could be the third Catholic school in FBS play. But obviously this goes to show you how slow and tedious of a process it is for a school in a top-10 media market to join the ranks of the BCS conferences. I'm surprised the Big East reached out to another Philly school after essentially forcing Temple to leave in '04. They should have done the same to Syracuse too.

Villanova? Football? Really? That is the goal? If you took a poll of US sports fans, I am guessing very few are even aware that Villanova has a football program. What is the purpose? Wash U has football too; does it really matter?

[Bay Area Billiken]

i dont know the answer to this but i would suspect that each division of the ncaa treats title IX differently. plus, to compete in D1 would require substantially more funds to match coaching, recruiting, facilities and overhead.

D3 football programs do not specifically give athletic scholarships. so right there the biggest expense is gone. and expectations of D3 athletics allow the schools to provide a much smaller scale to the expenses of coaching, recruiting, facilities and overhead. it is not unususal for a coach at a D3 school to also be employed in another area of the school.

same with the NAIA situation. those coaches frequently wear two hats. and most NAIA schools have no caps on scholarships or how they are used. many of my daughter's high school and select teamates have NAIA "scholarships" to play ball, but in reality they are probably more of a discount for tuition to get the student in school. Mckendree for example has more athletes associated with their school athletic programs than saint louis university. but i would bet slu spends a higher percentage of money on student athletic scholarships than McKendree does

I can give one example of the handling of the Title IX issue.

Crew is big on the East Coast. Fordham has FCS (D1-AA) men's football, and is in transition from a completely non-scholarship, financial aid Patriot League model (like Holy Cross and Georgetown), which itself follows the Ivy League model, into a full 65 scholarship FCS football team like Villanova.

Fordham has crew for both women and men, except the women's crew team is a varsity sport, whereas the men's crew team is a club sport. The two practice (row their boats on the Harlem River) together and have the same coach.

There is a way that schools are able to handle the Title IX issue.

[slu72]

Correct re Villanova. Villanova is very competitive at the FCS (D-1AA Level), so much so that Villanova is weighing a Big East football invitation.

Out here, alumni from Santa Clara and St. Mary's, are still upset that those schools dropped football, both in more recent times. The football issue continues to be raised in high places at Santa Clara. There are lesser options in California for high school football players who aren't good enough for FBS schools. That Santa Clara v. St. Mary's football game was a big rivalry game too.

A recent survey of endowment funds for Catholic universities listed SLU as 4th in the nation with $708mm behind ND ($5bil), BC($1.5bil), and GU($1.2bil). Since most of the schools on the list have a football program playing at some level, it's clearly not a $ issue. By the way Bay Area, Santa Clara is right behind SLU with around $550mil. Neither Reinart nor Biondi has ever been that committed to athletics which is probably the reason we don't have FB at even the lowest level. Nor is our hoops program funded the way it should be. It's gonna take a whole new admin with a whole different attitude to ever see the Billiken on a Ridell helmet.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Villanova? Football? Really? That is the goal? If you took a poll of US sports fans, I am guessing very few are even aware that Villanova has a football program. What is the purpose? Wash U has football too; does it really matter?

Perhaps you are right, but I doubt it. Villanova won the FCS (D1-AA) National Championship 2 years ago. That game was on national TV. Granted that is not the BCS National Championship Game, but I suspect most college football fans are aware of it.

As I noted above, the 4 year starting Quarterback for Fordham, John Skelton, was a 5th Round draft choice of the Arizona Cardinals, and played at the end of last season for the Big Red.

On the East Coast, Fordham is often competing with Villanova for the same students, and for that matter is also competing with Boston College. So Fordham is upgrading its football program to Villanova status, and there is a belief that Fordham ultimately is aiming at Boston College status.

Fordham is stepping up to play UConn and Army this season. Fordham just lost at UConn 35-3. But that Fordham team is only in its second year of scholarship football.

[Pistol]

I still don't get why there's any push at all for football at SLU. Aside from Chaifetz Arena, the athletic program has received minimal institutional support for decades. Why is it suddenly going to open the vault for what is by far the most expensive collegiate sport?

The athletic program itself has not been the most competent manager of a D-I program, either. 10 national championships in soccer in 14 years ending in 1973...and then nothing, despite an area rich with talent and great soccer minds. Suddenly quitting on what was at the time a very strong D-I hockey program with a huge following. Decades of an average basketball program, the only one with a chance to make some money to support the other sports. Decades of painfully sub-mediocre women's teams. Decades of penny pinching, sub-par facilities (again, finally we have one exception to this), underpaid and nickel-and-dimed staff, half-assed marketing campaigns, complete lack of tradition, and widespread student apathy.

Someone please explain why all of this will suddenly change for what is in every case a very expensive, resource-draining, and rarely profitable sport. We don't have T. Boone Pickens. Even if we did have someone come forward with millions just to launch a program, we'd need to somehow sustain it, too, and the money just isn't there.

And that's before we have to worry about how it would either force us to add the massive expense of launching additional women's sports or utterly decimating the other men's sports.

I hate to be pessimistic but I also can't ignore the virtual impossibility of SLU ever having anything a legitimate football program.

[Bay Area Billiken]

A recent survey of endowment funds for Catholic universities listed SLU as 4th in the nation with $708mm behind ND ($5bil), BC($1.5bil), and GU($1.2bil). Since most of the schools on the list have a football program playing at some level, it's clearly not a $ issue. By the way Bay Area, Santa Clara is right behind SLU with around $550mil. Neither Reinart nor Biondi has ever been that committed to athletics which is probably the reason we don't have FB at even the lowest level. Nor is our hoops program funded the way it should be. It's gonna take a whole new admin with a whole different attitude to ever see the Billiken on a Ridell helmet.

Last year or thereabouts, there was actually talk about a San Francisco (USF)-Santa Clara merger, which would be a merger of collegiate arch-rivals. One big issue is which school would be the surviving school. USF is in the big city; Santa Clara has that Silicon Valley fueled endowment. The feeling is that together, this would make a Catholic flagship university on the West Coast.

Like SLU Football, this merger will probably never happen.

Look at your endowment list- #1 Notre Dame- D-1 football; #2 Boston College- D-1 football; #3 Georgetown- D-1AA Patriot League, non-scholarship football; #4 SLU- No football.

And for you soccer fans, and I root for SLU Soccer too, the A-10 has not been good for the SLU Soccer Program IMO. The A-10 has been good for SLU Baseball in terms of 2 NCAA Tournament bids, but not for SLU Soccer.

[billiken_roy]

I can give one example of the handling of the Title IX issue.

Crew is big on the East Coast. Fordham has FCS (D1-AA) men's football, and is in transition from a completely non-scholarship, financial aid Patriot League model (like Holy Cross and Georgetown), which itself follows the Ivy League model, into a full 65 scholarship FCS football team like Villanova.

Fordham has crew for both women and men, except the women's crew team is a varsity sport, whereas the men's crew team is a club sport. The two practice (row their boats on the Harlem River) together and have the same coach.

There is a way that schools are able to handle the Title IX issue.

and the women's team has scholarships. where as the men rower's are paying their own way.

i was told of an illinois school that talked about having a girl's rugby team to give scholarships just to comply with title IX because of the football scholarship issue. of course no other school even has a girls rugby team for their "varsity" girls rugby team to play. so i believe the ncaa said no to that.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I still don't get why there's any push at all for football at SLU. Aside from Chaifetz Arena, the athletic program has received minimal institutional support for decades. Why is it suddenly going to open the vault for what is by far the most expensive collegiate sport?

The athletic program itself has not been the most competent manager of a D-I program, either. 10 national championships in soccer in 14 years ending in 1973...and then nothing, despite an area rich with talent and great soccer minds. Suddenly quitting on what was at the time a very strong D-I hockey program with a huge following. Decades of an average basketball program, the only one with a chance to make some money to support the other sports. Decades of painfully sub-mediocre women's teams. Decades of penny pinching, sub-par facilities (again, finally we have one exception to this), underpaid and nickel-and-dimed staff, half-assed marketing campaigns, complete lack of tradition, and widespread student apathy.

Someone please explain why all of this will suddenly change for what is in every case a very expensive, resource-draining, and rarely profitable sport. We don't have T. Boone Pickens. Even if we did have someone come forward with millions just to launch a program, we'd need to somehow sustain it, too, and the money just isn't there.

And that's before we have to worry about how it would either force us to add the massive expense of launching additional women's sports or utterly decimating the other men's sports.

I hate to be pessimistic but I also can't ignore the virtual impossibility of SLU ever having anything a legitimate football program.

Why can other peer institutions, fellow Catholic schools, have football, successful football, and not SLU?

Why did Marquette get the Big East invite and not SLU? Geography is not the real answer there. Geography is a de facto wash there. Until Dwyane Wade became eligible at Marquette, SLU was at minimum even with Marquette in then current hoops, in some ways ahead of Marquette, albeit not in terms of overall basketball tradition.

Why have Fordham and now Marquette (most regrettably) now passed SLU in the US News & World Report college ratings?

How did SLU go from being the 5th highest rated Catholic school to the 5th highest rated Jesuit school? (Answer: Marquette passed us.) For that matter, how did SLU go from being the 4th highest rated Catholic school into the 6th highest rated?

Friends, I am a loyal Billiken, true blue. My roommate and I personally sat in Ekker's office before the 1981-82 season and told him we weren't leaving until he let us restore the Billiken mascot. I advertise for SLU almost daily with an assortment of SLU T-Shirts. I want my alma mater to succeed, to be the best possible. Status quo gets us stuck in place.

A future Doug Flutie can't put St. Louis U. on the map if there is no team.

[Bay Area Billiken]

and the women's team has scholarships. where as the men rower's are paying their own way.

i was told of an illinois school that talked about having a girl's rugby team to give scholarships just to comply with title IX because of the football scholarship issue. of course no other school even has a girls rugby team for their "varsity" girls rugby team to play. so i believe the ncaa said no to that.

There was also an attempt to classify cheerleading as a sport. But my recollection is that failed in a court of law.

[Pistol]

Why can other peer institutions, fellow Catholic schools, have football, successful football, and not SLU?

Why did Marquette get the Big East invite and not SLU? Geography is not the real answer there. Geography is a de facto wash there. Until Dwyane Wade became eligible at Marquette, SLU was at minimum even with Marquette in then current hoops, in some ways ahead of Marquette, albeit not in terms of overall basketball tradition.

Why have Fordham and now Marquette (most regrettably) now passed SLU in the US News & World Report college ratings?

How did SLU go from being the 5th highest rated Catholic school to the 5th highest rated Jesuit school? (Answer: Marquette passed us.) For that matter, how did SLU go from being the 4th highest rated Catholic school into the 6th highest rated?

Friends, I am a loyal Billiken, true blue. My roommate and I personally sat in Ekker's office before the 1981-82 season and told him we weren't leaving until he let us restore the Billiken mascot. I advertise for SLU almost daily with an assortment of SLU T-Shirts. I want my alma mater to succeed, to be the best possible. Status quo gets us stuck in place.

A future Doug Flutie can't put St. Louis U. on the map if there is no team.

Notre Dame and Boston College are Catholic schools with successful football programs. ND is highly profitable for a number of reasons. BC seems to have strong revenue but I'm not sure they clear the bottom line in football. Not many programs do. But BC football is long-established.

What other Catholic schools have "successful" football programs? How do you rate success? To me, looking at a school with no football program, football fans, or football tradition, to be successful means financial success, and I don't see where the money is going to come from or how it will be sustainable in the long run. I just don't see the point if it's going to be a financial drain and take down other existing sports.

I'm not sure I follow why Marquette going to the Big East or SLU getting passed in the college rankings (which involve a ton of bull**** anyway) are relevant.