Majerus and Romar

[Triangle andToo]

Triangle is perplexed about the current situation of Billiken basketball in reference too local recruits. Coach Romar has Scott Suggs in Washington and Coach Miller has Jesse Perry at Arizona - both players are averaging less than 15 minutes per game. In Perry's defense, his playing time has been drastically increased in the last 4 games as a juco transfer, but Suggs is a junior, all 3 years at Washington. They were out of the same recruiting class, All St. Louis Metro. These guys would be averaging over 25-30 minutes a game even with Mitchell and Reed, for SLU. For the old time posters, you all know Triangle's problems with Coach Romar, he was a vagabond, guard coach and his defensive coaching and second half game adjustments were horrible. This year when they play blood donors they score 95 too 115 points, when they play a possible sweet 16 team or an elite 8 team they average (a team that believes in defense too win games) they average in the upper 60's. Coach Majerus on the other hand believes in a total game concept but after losing Suggs and Perry (forgetting about Perry in JC), Coach Majerus just turned too the southern hemisphere. Chicago and Milwaukee are a hotbed - but our Billikens will never get the best from these areas, good, teaching prospects. After Paul and Kyle are gone, will we ever see another metro area player in the blue and white again while Coach Majerus is our coach?

Merry Christmas and

so it goes.

[GoBills]

Triangle is perplexed about the current situation of Billiken basketball in reference too local recruits. Coach Romar has Scott Suggs in Washington and Coach Miller has Jesse Perry at Arizona - both players are averaging less than 15 minutes per game. In Perry's defense, his playing time has been drastically increased in the last 4 games as a juco transfer, but Suggs is a junior, all 3 years at Washington. They were out of the same recruiting class, All St. Louis Metro. These guys would be averaging over 25-30 minutes a game even with Mitchell and Reed, for SLU. For the old time posters, you all know Triangle's problems with Coach Romar, he was a vagabond, guard coach and his defensive coaching and second half game adjustments were horrible. This year when they play blood donors they score 95 too 115 points, when they play a possible sweet 16 team or an elite 8 team they average (a team that believes in defense too win games) they average in the upper 60's. Coach Majerus on the other hand believes in a total game concept but after losing Suggs and Perry (forgetting about Perry in JC), Coach Majerus just turned too the southern hemisphere. Chicago and Milwaukee are a hotbed - but our Billikens will never get the best from these areas, good, teaching prospects. After Paul and Kyle are gone, will we ever see another metro area player in the blue and white again while Coach Majerus is our coach?

Merry Christmas and

so it goes.

Could not disagree more. We can do quite well if we continue to attract players the caliber of Kwamain, McCall and Evans out of those areas. And going back a few years, Marque Perry could have done well for a lot of programs and would take a player of that caliber every time.

[Triangle andToo]

Could not disagree more. We can do quite well if we continue to attract players the caliber of Kwamain, McCall and Evans out of those areas. And going back a few years, Marque Perry could have done well for a lot of programs and would take a player of that caliber every time.

Nice post but Triangle believes the learning process has too end somewhere, yes they are fine players and will continue too improve - fine quick players. The jist of Too's post was (and maybe Triangle did not explain it properly) but Too agrees with Coach Majerus's philosophy far more than that debacle with Coach Romar. St. Louis area players need too stay home and Too really thinks that Coach Majerus has "turned away" after the Suggs and Perry situation and has basically "written off" Metro recruiting.

so it goes.

[GoBills]

Nice post but Triangle believes the learning process has too end somewhere, yes they are fine players and will continue too improve - fine quick players. The jist of Too's post was (and maybe Triangle did not explain it properly) but Too agrees with Coach Majerus's philosophy far more than that debacle with Coach Romar. St. Louis area players need too stay home and Too really thinks that Coach Majerus has "turned away" after the Suggs and Perry situation and has basically "written off" Metro recruiting.

so it goes.

Too would be wrong. Majerus has been recruiting several local juniors. Suggs had an opportunity to come to SLU, but chose to go with his buddy Romar. So it goes.

[Triangle andToo]

Triangle is sure that Coach Majerus's staff has identified St. Louis metro possibility players going back too 8th grade but will they ever wear the Blue and White? Triangle thinks not. - see the lower case "S".

so it goes.

[thetorch]

Majerus recruited Femi John to SLU. Is he not local? Ruben Cotto?

What other players would you have liked him to recruit here? Who has gotten away from SLU that we realistically should have had?

[GoBills]

Triangle is sure that Coach Majerus's staff has identified St. Louis metro possibility players going back too 8th grade but will they ever wear the Blue and White? Triangle thinks not. - see the lower case "S".

so it goes.

If Majerus offers the locals and they go out of town, then So what - with a capital "S". Some kids want to go out of town. If they do, then go back up to Chicago and get more player like Evans and McCall. Or to Minnesota and get another player the caliber of Jett.

[pakapablo]

If Majerus offers the locals and they go out of town, then So what - with a capital "S". Some kids want to go out of town. If they do, then go back up to Chicago and get more player like Evans and McCall. Or to Minnesota and get another player the caliber of Jett.

agreed. local players are nice but I just want a good team that wins consistently. I could really care less what high school or city the kid is from. I think it is cool that we have currently have Kiwis and Aussies. It is not like STL is putting out tons of D1 basketball talent consistently.

[mcglotherirvin]

Grades were an issue with Perry. As they r with mclemore and bj young. Rm sees issues like these and moves on early. I wish he would have landed Griffey and harrellson. Otherwise I can't think of any locals who got away that he actually had a shot with and that could have made it academically.

Nice post but Triangle believes the learning process has too end somewhere, yes they are fine players and will continue too improve - fine quick players. The jist of Too's post was (and maybe Triangle did not explain it properly) but Too agrees with Coach Majerus's philosophy far more than that debacle with Coach Romar. St. Louis area players need too stay home and Too really thinks that Coach Majerus has "turned away" after the Suggs and Perry situation and has basically "written off" Metro recruiting.

so it goes.

[Taj79]

St. Louis has not shown a proven track record as a developmental hot bed of consistent basketball talent. We've had numerous locals who went away, some who stayed and some who went away and came back. People forget that when we landed Hughes, we also landed other St. Loui shotshots like Tatum and Baniak. Dwayne Polk and Luke Meyer and Lisch and Liddell under Sodie. We've also lost talenst like White, Upchurch, Carrawell, Miles, Lee and so on. But I believe that because the talent level of St. Loui sis low, those that get away and do shine shine even brighter in our minds because they got away.

A couple of things also ... if I were young and that talented, I would want to go away as well. See the world. Plus, if I am that talented, I want to go to the best available program out there that wants me. Historically, thst also isn't SLU. Plus I likely believe I am destined for the show, so I want a program that develops players in a winning atmosphere to advance. That ain't SLU --- our drafted NBAers were journeymen at best (Bonner, Hughes, Jeffers). And I want to play for a winner who is on TV and in the Dance all the time. Again, not SLU.

Kids in Memphis stay home and Memphis is perennially good. Kids don't reall ystay home in NY or Chicago --- or St. John's and DePaul and Fordham and Loyola would be unrreal. I agree with the adage that in the college game, the name on the front of the jersey is more important than the name on the back. It doesn't matter where they come from, once they don the blue, they are our boys and girls.

[p diddy]

a whole group of kids from st. louis went to carbondale and made the salukis a powerhouse program for about six years. I can recall a couple of sweet 16s and a whole mess of valley titles. you can add tatum and shaw in that group as well.

bad boyz for life

[Archy McNally]

a whole group of kids from st. louis went to carbondale and made the salukis a powerhouse program for about six years. I can recall a couple of sweet 16s and a whole mess of valley titles. you can add tatum and shaw in that group as well.

bad boyz for life

Are you trying to say they were from St. Louis? Tatum was from Jeff City and Shaw is from Centralia. That is pretty far from St. Louis.

[billiken_roy]

pdiddy, you have always been good at knowing what the "streets are saying", iyo, why has rickma had even less local recruiting success than the previous coaches? is he trying? is the local pipeline not good enough? what's your opinion?

[NH]

Grades were an issue with Perry. As they r with mclemore and bj young. Rm sees issues like these and moves on early. I wish he would have landed Griffey and harrellson. Otherwise I can't think of any locals who got away that he actually had a shot with and that could have made it academically.

Scott Suggs, Biedscheid, Brad Beal

[ACE]

It all depends on what local players we are talking about. We have had our fair share of very mediocre local players over the years, too. Maybe because I am not originally from St. Louis, getting local players has never been that important to me. I want guys who can play first and foremost, regardless of where they are from. Don't lower our standards just because a kid is local. Make sure that local kid can play. That's the approach Majerus takes. We got John, Eckerle, Cotto and Cassity, plus we offered Harrelson, Suggs and the kid who commited to Notre Dame. RM has gone after local players. This is a non-issue... just joey fluegel too trying to stir it up.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I think some posters may be taking it to the extreme, which is what used to happen when STL HOOPS INSIDER touted local players on here. I dont think Triangle is saying you recruit St. Louis players exclusively and only STL players and you will win the A10 title. I think he's saying that local players should be a priority and not an afterthought. I think he's sort of saying, you start with the St. Louis guys first, then maybe branch out into the Southwestern Illinois area where there is a lot of talent, then maybe across state to the other big town, which is Kansas City and pluck a Willie Reed or Marcus Denmon type, then branch out to Chicago and then other hotbeds. Also, some act like SLU plays in the Big 10. no Saint Louis does not put out a ton of high-major kids every year, but there are plenty of mid-major talents out there almost every year and like it or not, SLU is a mid-major program. And you forget that a lot of kids in St. Louis are very good, but not seen or heard about sometimes because of exposure. IE Josh Harrellson, Ben McLemore. They made no drastic improvement from year to year, they were always really good, people just never really gave them a second look, and once people with influence saw them and got their name out. Kansas City puts out a ton of D1 kids every year. Its not just talent, its with the help of the Eric Bossi's and Tom Tietze's. There's not really too much of that here in St. Louis. I'm sure Nate does the best he can, but he cant do it by himself, a 1-man band wont get it done. This time last year people were questioning if McLemore was a d1 player because he played 2A ball, and 2 months later he had double digit high-major d1 offers and was top 50 in America. That was a combination of his video footage getting out and later Eric Bossi and other scouts coming to see him. He was always good. There are very good players here, but somebody's gotta discover them.

And I dont know how hard SLU went after Nathan Scheer, but I do believe they offered, but the way this team struggles to score, I think he should've been a priority (and maybe he was, I dont know), especially when you have a recent connection of landing Borgia players (Luke Meyer 04', Paul Eckerle 07'). And yes I'm aware that Missouri State landed Sky Frazier in 03. Scheer is the type of kid you want to land. Not a high-major, but should be a darn good mid-major player. And from what I hear, SLU is in already on a lot of local kids right now and they were the first offer to Cameron Biedscheid I believe.

[billiken_roy]

while i agree we shouldnt recruit locals just because they are locals or lower our standards. that would serve only in lowering our roster's overall talent.

that said, i do think when a local is as good or better the supreme effort should be made to get them to stay and attend slu. not only would we be miles ahead public relationswise with the community, it would surely help attendance with the casual fans, it would surely help local student recruitment and maybe most important in biondi's world, it would sure cost a hell of a lot less to recruit that local player over the kid from halfway around the world.

for example, if you look at our current roster, it is hard to believe that we needed to make the expense to recruit and bring in salecich. it is my opinion that there were local players that were better. and we know definitely there were players in the 48 states that would have been better. now that said, maybe it was some sort of the deal that led to getting ellis and loe who both have a lot of potential. we dont know that. but we do know that there were local players that could have contributed more effectively than what christian has thus far.

still one cant argue that the overall talent level at the lower levels of the roster seems to be higher than maybe at any time in billiken history. and if the overall roster is more talented that should eventually translate to more success. more success might then make some of these higher level locals that now head to florida or butler or notre dame to want to be billikens. so maybe rickma's plan by not taking the second or third tier locals is to build the success first then the first tier kids will want to stay?

[billikenbilly]

we had no shot with brad beal.

suggs - not sure i'd want him.

biedscheid - you might be right about him. that's one guy we might have missed out on. time will tell.

Scott Suggs, Biedscheid, Brad Beal

[STL Hoops Insider]

Roy, you mentioned Butler. I'm not sure if SLU was really recruiting Roosevelt.

Billikenbilly. I have no idea why you wouldnt want Suggs. He's been stuck behind some pretty good perimeter players at Washington including 1st rounder quincy pondexter. Suggs can ball. He'd start at SLU especially not. Even with Mitchell and Reed SLU has been weak at the wing spots since Lisch and Liddell departed.

[billiken_roy]

the thing about suggs is that he could have turned out completely different had he not went to a program where he wasnt good enough to play. in hindsight, i still would have taken suggs.

would i want him back now? no. he made his choice.

[Clock_Tower]

Triangle.

Agree with you, generally, that that SLU should have local kids on our roster and that SLU should have at least one (1) current JUCO/transfer on this team. With that said, we can go thru each and every local kid and provide legitimate reasons why the local kid is not here. I will not waste time listing what other posters have said on this topic, but the reality is that we do have local players on our roster, we have tried hard to bring in locals like Kowal and Harrelson and we have gone after each of these local players. In the past, we have let the program run down to nothing and then have found a local group of highschool Seniors willing to come to SLU as a group to take over the program and start/play all 4 years: Monroe Douglas, Roland Gray and the following year Bonner; then Winfield, Grawer, Highmark, Clagget, Bickel and the IL kid; then Larry, Baniak and Tatum. Our sales pitch has been playing time -- 4 years of being the local star which can lead to post college opportunities. This boom and bust with total reliance upon the locals has not worked. RM is building the program in a different manner. Frankly, I believe that what RM is selling probably appeals more to non-locals. The locals have seen how bad/mediocre our program has been and probably will not come back until either we win or they get promised 4 years in the spotlight. We have a unique situation with RM -- national and international reputation & future HOF coach. I say we win with kids from anywhere. Once we win, our succesor coach can go back to the local/Midwest kids.

[billikenbilly]

i'm with roy on this one. i wanted him several years ago but if he wanted to transfer now, i'm not so sure about it.

also, i don't think rm had much of a chance with him anyways.

the thing about suggs is that he could have turned out completely different had he not went to a program where he wasnt good enough to play. in hindsight, i still would have taken suggs.

would i want him back now? no. he made his choice.

[p diddy]

Are you trying to say they were from St. Louis? Tatum was from Jeff City and Shaw is from Centralia. That is pretty far from St. Louis.

I added those two names (Shaw and Tatum) because they really, really wanted to come to SLU. So did Kent Williams from Mt. Vernon. The local kids I referred to were Darren Brooks, Stetson Hairston, Randal Falker, Mike Dale (a bit of a knucklehead), Josh Warren. The got a lot of bling in C-dale.

[Billiken75]

the thing about suggs is that he could have turned out completely different had he not went to a program where he wasnt good enough to play. in hindsight, i still would have taken suggs.

would i want him back now? no. he made his choice.

I remember a quote from Majerus that Tyler Griffey was his number one target. He lost out to the Illini. Each recruit has his own reasons for choosing one program over another.

[crymdg2]

I added those two names (Shaw and Tatum) because they really, really wanted to come to SLU. So did Kent Williams from Mt. Vernon. The local kids I referred to were Darren Brooks, Stetson Hairston, Randal Falker, Mike Dale (a bit of a knucklehead), Josh Warren. The got a lot of bling in C-dale.

Wait a minute.....from what I heard at the time we offered Shaw and recruited him hard. He chose not to come to SLU. If he wanted to come he could have.

Stetson Harrison and Mike Dale (who I believe had grades issues as well), while very talented, I wouldn't have wanted them on our team. Lots of off the court issues there.

Falker, I know this has been debated on here before, but I thought whatever he was wanting to major in was not offered by SLU. I could be wrong, but again I thought this was the case. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.