Recruiting In St. Louis

[Box and Won]

Dean's List at SLU was a 3.7 GPA when I was there.

[DirtyRican]

Dean's List at SLU was a 3.7 GPA when I was there.

Overachiever!

All this talk about Puerto Rico is really getting me fired up.

[cheeseman]

Here are my thoughts on recruiting the area:

1) It is much easier to evaluate and recruit players from close to home, both financially and logistically

2) Selling "closeness to home" is a unique advantage a school can offer and you have to take advantage of it (look at Kyle Cassity)

3) it creates interest in your program

4) If you are a program like SLU you don't have much going for you when you go up against the big state schools. Let's say we are recruiting against North Carolina for a 5-star kid. The factors that would make a kid choose your school are mostly:

Prestige of program

Facilities

Quality of Coach

Quality of Team

Academics

Proximity to home

North Carolina would beat us in all of those categories but one, maybe two. The biggest advantage we have of getting a kid is the proximity to home. If we are recruiting a kid from Chicago or Wisconsin we lose that advantage.

I think if you have three kids the same skill level, one from wisconsin, one from Australia and one from ST. Louis, you recruit the STL kid first, then the WI kid, then the Aussie, if you have to prioritize it.

The biggest problem with recruiting a big name player locally is that they get visions of sugar plums in their heads when a big name school comes calling. I have no inside info but if playing time is a big deal for players then you got to think that Griffey and Suggs as examples would have been happier in the long run at SLU.

[STL Hoops Insider]

The biggest problem with recruiting a big name player locally is that they get visions of sugar plums in their heads when a big name school comes calling. I have no inside info but if playing time is a big deal for players then you got to think that Griffey and Suggs as examples would have been happier in the long run at SLU.

The book isnt quite closed on Griffey. Illinois loses Davis, Tisdale, and i think Cole upfront this year. He could be in line for a starting spot these next years, possibly on tournament teams. Suggs, yeah I think he would've been happier being a star at SLU. I dont care how much you like a school, competitive ball players are not happy to just be on the team, they wanna play too.

[GOSLU68]

He's the thing about recruiting and the perception that many from board have of local recruits. If NH or myself suggested that the Bills should have gone after.....lets say Dantiel Daniels from Holt HS. The kid is a beast and a D1 signee, but we would've heard how he's only 6'5 and that SLU needs a bigger big man or about what other schools weren't recruiting him. Cory Remekum is also 6'5. If Remekum is big enough then Daniels is too. I saw a lot of Billiken games last year and saw Cory play all summer. They are the exact same player.

I know your point is recruit local; but listen to us:

probably more than a couple of us think payers like Cory Remekun might as well be Seque Barentine; if Conklin was 6'9 like Willie he'd be the beast from Eugene. 6'6' or 6'7" or 6'8" can barely cut it at the 4 much less the 5.

If Dantiel Daniels is no bigger, quicker, stronger, or fierce rebounder than CR we do not want another 17 year old we hope is still growing. If CR was redshirted as RM originally planned he would not be as good a first year player

as DE, who is shorter. CR has no fire in his belly-he plays well enough to keep his spot warm on the bench and keep his scholarship...seems like a nice kid though

You would have been better off with a different example lots of kids like Chris Braun, BT, or the last of the Leuchtefelds are big, tall local kids who were not NBA bound through SLU-we are due for another

Anthony Bonner and he could be the star of Chaifetz

[Clock_Tower]

NH. Not intending to quibble but believe you forgot 2 more very important factors: 1) TV exposure and 2) the conference/quality of opponents/schedule?

Also, disagree with you about RM only starting to recruit local kids. RM's first year he not only recruited and landed: PE, RC, KC, FJ and BT. During his tenture, RM also was interested/recruited Suggs,Griffey, Brandenburg, Beal and others. While lost to injury, hindsight has proven to me that that FJ was the best college player of the 3 McClure kids. I am glad we didn't land Booker and Roundtree. As to the other locals who went elsewhere, believe nearly everyone of them was spotted on campus taking a visit at some time.

Reality: if the Grinch had not stolen Chirstmas (Fr. Biondi/John Cook railroading KM and WR out of school), this would have been our year. Other teams who lost their top 2 players would suffer/struggle but would not run 4 Frosh out on the floor. SLU, instead, has no Seniors and and underperforming Sophmore class. CR is still a work in progress and will not contribute until at least his JR year (actually quite normal for a big), CS has not figured things out yet and CE either is still struggling from the mono/fireworks or is having issues.

Instead, we are left to talk and second guess as to why our Frosh and Sophs cannot stack up against other team's JRs and SRs. RL would be a really nice back-up to WR and we'd all be talking about how promising RL looks, how he will replace WR in 2 years when he adds additional weight/muscle... with the VA highschooler coming in as well. Same with MM and JJ about how they each can/will replace KM in the coming years.

Here are my thoughts on recruiting the area:

1) It is much easier to evaluate and recruit players from close to home, both financially and logistically

2) Selling "closeness to home" is a unique advantage a school can offer and you have to take advantage of it (look at Kyle Cassity)

3) it creates interest in your program

4) If you are a program like SLU you don't have much going for you when you go up against the big state schools. Let's say we are recruiting against North Carolina for a 5-star kid. The factors that would make a kid choose your school are mostly:

Prestige of program

Facilities

Quality of Coach

Quality of Team

Academics

Proximity to home

North Carolina would beat us in all of those categories but one, maybe two. The biggest advantage we have of getting a kid is the proximity to home. If we are recruiting a kid from Chicago or Wisconsin we lose that advantage.

I think if you have three kids the same skill level, one from wisconsin, one from Australia and one from ST. Louis, you recruit the STL kid first, then the WI kid, then the Aussie, if you have to prioritize it.

[GoBills]

I can't believe this topic is still going on. Recruiting has not been a problem at all for Majerus. Scott Suggs would have been a star at SLU? Let's get real. He likely would have been a very nice player, but not a star. The A-10 is a tough league. In fact, at least as good if not better than the Pac-10 in recent years. Young Mr. Suggs would not have waltzed right in and dominated at SLU.

[For-DaLove]

I have seen Daniels play and he didn't impress me at all. Any 6'5 kid whose athletic should beable to rebound like he does. He would have gotten munched on in the A10.

And, as someone else stated, CR is taller than 6'5.

[NH]

I can't believe this topic is still going on. Recruiting has not been a problem at all for Majerus. Scott Suggs would have been a star at SLU? Let's get real. He likely would have been a very nice player, but not a star. The A-10 is a tough league. In fact, at least as good if not better than the Pac-10 in recent years. Young Mr. Suggs would not have waltzed right in and dominated at SLU.

He would be a star. On a team filled with offensive weapons, he is scoring 7 ppg. Look at KC, who I am a big fan of. Suggs is much more potent offensively as a scorer than Kyle. Given the opportunity, Suggs would be scoring a lot of points. I'm guessing you don't watch him play very much? I've seen every SLU game (sans Northeastern which I listened to on the radio) and I have seen at least 5 Washington games. Suggs would almost unquestionably be our leading scorer right now.

And you say RM has had no problem recruiting. While I agree he has done a great job, to say that he has no problem recruiting is dumb. We are 5-7. I realize the magnitude of who we lost, but outside of our current class of freshman, we are not THAT talented. RM has done a good job recruiting, and an even better job coaching that talent. But to say he has had no problem is ignorant.

[NH]

I have seen Daniels play and he didn't impress me at all. Any 6'5 kid whose athletic should beable to rebound like he does. He would have gotten munched on in the A10.

And, as someone else stated, CR is taller than 6'5.

He will be a good, not great, mid-major player. I would still take CR because of his size and shot-blocking.

The area has many talented players. The more we get, the better. If we don't get them, as long as we get other talented players we will be alright.

[GoBills]

He would be a star. On a team filled with offensive weapons, he is scoring 7 ppg. Look at KC, who I am a big fan of. Suggs is much more potent offensively as a scorer than Kyle. Given the opportunity, Suggs would be scoring a lot of points. I'm guessing you don't watch him play very much? I've seen every SLU game (sans Northeastern which I listened to on the radio) and I have seen at least 5 Washington games. Suggs would almost unquestionably be our leading scorer right now.

And you say RM has had no problem recruiting. While I agree he has done a great job, to say that he has no problem recruiting is dumb. We are 5-7. I realize the magnitude of who we lost, but outside of our current class of freshman, we are not THAT talented. RM has done a good job recruiting, and an even better job coaching that talent. But to say he has had no problem is ignorant.

You claim that I am ignorant because I believe that recruiting has not been a problem for Majerus? Yet just earlier today, you say that IF Kwamain and Willie had been playing all season, that the Bills would be 11-1, with the 13th SOS and likely be in the top 25. It sure sounds like you agree with my opinion that Majerus has recruited well since you believe the team he put together would be 11-1. It is rather amusing that you of all people are throwing around words like dumb and ignorant so loosely.

[NH]

You claim that I am ignorant because I believe that recruiting has not been a problem for Majerus? Yet just earlier today, you say that IF Kwamain and Willie had been playing all season, that the Bills would be 11-1, with the 13th SOS and likely be in the top 25. It sure sounds like you agree with my opinion that Majerus has recruited well since you believe the team he put together would be 11-1. It is rather amusing that you of all people are throwing around words like dumb and ignorant so loosely.

Well you say things about suggs when you haven't seen him play (or have you?) that is ignorant. You say RM has not had any problem recruiting, that is ignorant and dumb. He has lost out on a bunch of recruits. We haven't gotten our top target in multiple classes, often settling for option C or D. We are under-talented right now. Yes, IF KM and FJ and WR and JS were playing we would be alright, but they aren't. So clearly, we have had some problems in recruiting since we only have nine scholarship players, several of whom are not exactly lighting it up.

You make it seem like RM has been perfect, no problems. I dispute that. Sorry if I used some words that may have been harsh.

[thetorch]

Suggs should be a non issue. Brad and Majerus recruited him hard. Suggs had a personal relationship with Romar, as long as Romar was coaching at a high level he was going to go where he was.

[GoBills]

Well you say things about suggs when you haven't seen him play (or have you?) that is ignorant. You say RM has not had any problem recruiting, that is ignorant and dumb. He has lost out on a bunch of recruits. We haven't gotten our top target in multiple classes, often settling for option C or D. We are under-talented right now. Yes, IF KM and FJ and WR and JS were playing we would be alright, but they aren't. So clearly, we have had some problems in recruiting since we only have nine scholarship players, several of whom are not exactly lighting it up.

You make it seem like RM has been perfect, no problems. I dispute that. Sorry if I used some words that may have been harsh.

Let me slow it down for you, so maybe it will sink in. Just earlier today, you said that the team Majerus assembled/recruited would have likely been in the top 25 right now. Later in the day you took me to task for saying that recruiting has not really been a problem for Majerus. Heck, by your own admission you say Majerus has recruited enough talent for a Top 25 team, so why are you disagreeing with me? And where did I say that the recruiting has been perfect? Don't make stuff up to support your argument. And what coach hasn't lost out on a bunch of recruits? Every coach casts a wide net.

[moytoy12]

He has lost out on a bunch of recruits. We haven't gotten our top target in multiple classes, often settling for option C or D.

who were the top targets?

We are under-talented right now.

tends to happen when top players are suspended on a mid-major team.

Yes, IF KM and FJ and WR and JS were playing we would be alright, but they aren't.

speak of the devil. please, let's have some context. we're not duke, unc, etc. We're like the other 99% of college D-1 teams. When you lose 2-4 of your top players/talent, you're going to suffer big time.

So clearly, we have had some problems in recruiting since we only have nine scholarship players, several of whom are not exactly lighting it up.

please, this is so intentionally skewed that it's ridiculous. This is SLU. RM has had no problems in recruiting other than he has recruited over SLU's head for a couple of big fish and hasn't landed them. Also, we don't have 9 schollie players by choice. It's not like we couldn't get other players to fill the scholllies. Are you really vtime? Because you are starting to sound as stupid as he did.

You make it seem like RM has been perfect, no problems. I dispute that. Sorry if I used some words that may have been harsh.

RM is not perfect, far from it. Your opinion of his tenure though is quite laughable.

[NH]

who were the top targets?

'08

Matt Roth and Scott Suggs were big priorities

'09

Tyler Griffey was our top target. Bobby Capobianco, Matt Vogrich and Scott Wood were all priorities who chose to go to BCS players.

'10

We got our top two targets in Loe and McCall. Lost out on Dragicievich and Kreklow, but that's bound to happen

tends to happen when top players are suspended on a mid-major team.

Yes, it is to be expected. Still, you would hope we had another big besides WR who could show some signs of being a big-time player. I think I, and may others here, overrated the talent of our returning players from last season. And I don't think we are a mid-major team, but that;s a different argument.

speak of the devil. please, let's have some context. we're not duke, unc, etc. We're like the other 99% of college D-1 teams. When you lose 2-4 of your top players/talent, you're going to suffer big time.

The fact of the matter is responsibility has to eventually land with the head coach. Yes, we're bound to struggle a bit after losing the heart of our team. But Xavier lost their top two players and still looks solid. Rhode Island lost their two players and still looks alright. Dayton lost a lot of players and rebounded.

And I certainly understand that our situation is completely different from those schools. I think we are a team starting at times 4 freshman, and we have been competitive in nearly every game. RM is doing an outstanding job with the talent he has. But I look at those other schools, and perhaps I am misjudging this, and I see their current roster as being more talented than ours. I think our freshman class is up there with any other team in the A-10's, but if you look at our current junior and sophomore classes, and they are somewhat disappointing.

please, this is so intentionally skewed that it's ridiculous. This is SLU. RM has had no problems in recruiting other than he has recruited over SLU's head for a couple of big fish and hasn't landed them. Also, we don't have 9 schollie players by choice. It's not like we couldn't get other players to fill the scholllies. Are you really vtime? Because you are starting to sound as stupid as he did.

RM is not perfect, far from it. Your opinion of his tenure though is quite laughable.

I will say it again, RM is doing a very good job in my opinion. I thought we would be better by now, but a lot of that is obviously not on him. The way we looked at the end of last year showed great signs for the progress of the program.

The recruiting is good, although I expected a little more. That may have been unreasonable. And maybe if we had all our players on the team, we would be as talented as what I expected from RM. I think RM is doing a good job recruiting, but there is a lot of room for improvement as I bet the staff would admit. Maybe that will come when we begin winning, which will happen hopefully shortly after jan. 3.

I guess it just gets frustrating being 5-7 after expecting so much. Winning solves all.

[ACE]

Let me slow it down for you, so maybe it will sink in. Just earlier today, you said that the team Majerus assembled/recruited would have likely been in the top 25 right now. Later in the day you took me to task for saying that recruiting has not really been a problem for Majerus. Heck, by your own admission you say Majerus has recruited enough talent for a Top 25 team, so why are you disagreeing with me? And where did I say that the recruiting has been perfect? Don't make stuff up to support your argument. And what coach hasn't lost out on a bunch of recruits? Every coach casts a wide net.

GoBills, keep in mind when trying to have a debate with this kid, that he's only about 15 years old. Somebody pointed that out to me one time when I was trying to talk some sense into him. In other words, he has a lot to learn, not only about basketball, but also about how to have a decent debate. He probably hasn't even taken a logic class yet. You picked apart his flawed logic regarding RM's recruiting. He comes across as the worst kind of know it all... a know it all who actually knows quite little. Last year, when we were waiting for Cody to become eligible, myself and others said that Cody would immediately be the second best big on the team and would start before the end of the season. Of course that is how it played out, but he jumped on our case for having that opinion. It's great to have a young Billiken fan with a lot of passion, but just know who you are dealing with right now and not it take him so seriously. When he called you dumb and ignorant, I believe he was simply projecting.

[Clock_Tower]

NH. Disagree with you. Recruiting of high school seniors (4 year players) has been quite good (by good D1 standards) and off the charts (by SLU standards). In hindsight, RM would probably admit that his rebuilding has taken longer than he expected. His ability to get immediate help (JUCOs) is more of a SLU problem than an RM problem. Also, waiting and rebuilding only to have not only your top 2 players but also your only real experienced players kicked out of school has set this program back at least another year if not more. Other programs like X, etc. have upperclassmen. We were the youngest team in the country last year -- NO Jrs and Srs. This year, we are the 6th youngest -- only KC and BC are Jrs with NO Seniors.

As to Top Targets --- Matt Roth was NOT our top target in 2008. Instead, he was a possibly addition - albeit a good one - in the Spring. I'd say landing KC and RC in the Spring made that 2008 class a pretty good one and was not "plan C" as you indicate. On the first day of signing, we landed BT, WR, KM, FJ and BC. KM was our top target who almost left us b/c he was so good and started fielding so much interest his Senior year. RM kept him and almost recruited him twice. There was no talk about Matt Roth in November. As to Suggs, yes, he was a big target -- part of the local class -- but so was BT and FJ. Suggs was probably the most sought after local but also there was Brandenberg, Soderberg, Roundtree, Booker, etc. BTW, "big priorities" is not the same as RM's top target.

In 2009, Cody Ellis was RM's top target. Did we want Griffey as well? Sure we did but until our program is turned around and we actually win some games, get on TV and have post-season success, no coach will land top talent - especially local - here at SLU.

'08

Matt Roth and Scott Suggs were big priorities

'09

Tyler Griffey was our top target. Bobby Capobianco, Matt Vogrich and Scott Wood were all priorities who chose to go to BCS players.

'10

We got our top two targets in Loe and McCall. Lost out on Dragicievich and Kreklow, but that's bound to happen

Yes, it is to be expected. Still, you would hope we had another big besides WR who could show some signs of being a big-time player. I think I, and may others here, overrated the talent of our returning players from last season. And I don't think we are a mid-major team, but that;s a different argument.

The fact of the matter is responsibility has to eventually land with the head coach. Yes, we're bound to struggle a bit after losing the heart of our team. But Xavier lost their top two players and still looks solid. Rhode Island lost their two players and still looks alright. Dayton lost a lot of players and rebounded.

And I certainly understand that our situation is completely different from those schools. I think we are a team starting at times 4 freshman, and we have been competitive in nearly every game. RM is doing an outstanding job with the talent he has. But I look at those other schools, and perhaps I am misjudging this, and I see their current roster as being more talented than ours. I think our freshman class is up there with any other team in the A-10's, but if you look at our current junior and sophomore classes, and they are somewhat disappointing.

I will say it again, RM is doing a very good job in my opinion. I thought we would be better by now, but a lot of that is obviously not on him. The way we looked at the end of last year showed great signs for the progress of the program.

The recruiting is good, although I expected a little more. That may have been unreasonable. And maybe if we had all our players on the team, we would be as talented as what I expected from RM. I think RM is doing a good job recruiting, but there is a lot of room for improvement as I bet the staff would admit. Maybe that will come when we begin winning, which will happen hopefully shortly after jan. 3.

I guess it just gets frustrating being 5-7 after expecting so much. Winning solves all.

[Billiken4life5]

In terms of recruiting if you can get 3 quality players out of a class it's a good year and if you can get 4 I would call it a great year.

So if you look at our classes:

Juniors: KC, KM, WR all above average players. BC can be a valuable role player if he's backing up quality bigs. So overall I would say this class is a success.

Sophs: Verdict is still out. I would say CE and Jake Barnett are the keys. Everyone's down on Cody but when's the last time we had a frosh average double digits like he did last year? I think eventually he gets back to being a prime time player. This year has shown Cory Remekun isnt ready to be a scorer in D1 but he would also be a valuable body off the bench. Also he's so young he still has time to develop. CS has definitely regressed and hasn't shown many signs of life lately. If Jake Barnett is as good as Majerus and us expect then this class is at worse average. If JB isn't as great as we think and Cody doesn't pick it up then this class is pretty poor. Think we would have all liked to seen another quality big in this class but just can't make a ruling on this class yet.

Frosh: Looks like we have four guys that can really play and will be fun to watch for four years. They look like four guys that could be the core of an A-10 championship team.

I'd say 2 out of 3 years Rick has done very well and hard to tell the other year.

[TJHawk]

Bill Self doesn't get his top choice every year. Recruiting is hard so yes RM has problems but he does ok considering SLU's anti-basketball stance.

[Cowboy]

In terms of recruiting if you can get 3 quality players out of a class it's a good year and if you can get 4 I would call it a great year.

So if you look at our classes:

Juniors: KC, KM, WR all above average players. BC can be a valuable role player if he's backing up quality bigs. So overall I would say this class is a success.

Sophs: Verdict is still out. I would say CE and Jake Barnett are the keys. Everyone's down on Cody but when's the last time we had a frosh average double digits like he did last year? I think eventually he gets back to being a prime time player. This year has shown Cory Remekun isnt ready to be a scorer in D1 but he would also be a valuable body off the bench. Also he's so young he still has time to develop. CS has definitely regressed and hasn't shown many signs of life lately. If Jake Barnett is as good as Majerus and us expect then this class is at worse average. If JB isn't as great as we think and Cody doesn't pick it up then this class is pretty poor. Think we would have all liked to seen another quality big in this class but just can't make a ruling on this class yet.

Frosh: Looks like we have four guys that can really play and will be fun to watch for four years. They look like four guys that could be the core of an A-10 championship team.

I'd say 2 out of 3 years Rick has done very well and hard to tell the other year.

-sitting here today not sure i can quibble with much in this post but like the nfl draft the evaluation that matters to me is a few years from the draft or signing day to see what actually happened with those players versus what is projected from them

[doowop]

I may be wrong and I don't want to put words in NH's mouth but, all I believe he is saying is that if the recruiting could be rated as successful then losing two players, even our best two players, should not have left us with the level of talent we have now. We are where we are talent wise ( without KM and WR) because the sophomore class has been a big disappointment. On another point, in my opinion, KC is going to be or already is a much more complete player than Matt Roth. We got the better player. I apologize NH if that is not at least a part of your point.

[NH]

I may be wrong and I don't want to put words in NH's mouth but, all I believe he is saying is that if the recruiting could be rated as successful then losing two players, even our best two players, should not have left us with the level of talent we have now. We are where we are talent wise ( without KM and WR) because the sophomore class has been a big disappointment. On another point, in my opinion, KC is going to be or already is a much more complete player than Matt Roth. We got the better player. I apologize NH if that is not at least a part of your point.

Yeah that's a lot of it.

To say we have had no problems recruiting is to ignore the fact that we haven't landed some of our top targets (Clocktower, I'm pretty sure RM has since said Griffey was our top target, Cody signed in the spring as well not sure what that means). Also, BThomp was a recruiting failure. Cotto and Maybe Justin Jordan couldn't do it academically. Salecich to this point has not shown much. We have had trouble landing good big men. Those are all problems. Gobills, if you have no problems doesn't that imply you are perfect? maybe I am losing something in translation there.

We are in a great spot if WR and KM come back. That doesn't mean we have to not worry about the talent level at all or questions anything ever. It's a message board for goodness sakes.

[kevinfootes]

Yeah that's a lot of it.

To say we have had no problems recruiting is to ignore the fact that we haven't landed some of our top targets (Clocktower, I'm pretty sure RM has since said Griffey was our top target, Cody signed in the spring as well not sure what that means). Also, BThomp was a recruiting failure. Cotto and Maybe Justin Jordan couldn't do it academically. Salecich to this point has not shown much. We have had trouble landing good big men. Those are all problems. Gobills, if you have no problems doesn't that imply you are perfect? maybe I am losing something in translation there.

We are in a great spot if WR and KM come back. That doesn't mean we have to not worry about the talent level at all or questions anything ever. It's a message board for goodness sakes.

How many schools get all of their top recruits every year? This was/is a rebuilding project and this was going to be the first year it would start paying off. If RM were 7 or 8 years into the program and this happened, I would agree that there should be some depth to compensate. If KM and WR are on the team next season and we're at .500 going into the new year, I'll say there is a problem.

[GoBills]

GoBills, keep in mind when trying to have a debate with this kid, that he's only about 15 years old. Somebody pointed that out to me one time when I was trying to talk some sense into him. In other words, he has a lot to learn, not only about basketball, but also about how to have a decent debate. He probably hasn't even taken a logic class yet. You picked apart his flawed logic regarding RM's recruiting. He comes across as the worst kind of know it all... a know it all who actually knows quite little. Last year, when we were waiting for Cody to become eligible, myself and others said that Cody would immediately be the second best big on the team and would start before the end of the season. Of course that is how it played out, but he jumped on our case for having that opinion. It's great to have a young Billiken fan with a lot of passion, but just know who you are dealing with right now and not it take him so seriously. When he called you dumb and ignorant, I believe he was simply projecting.

Thanks for the background. I will consider the source. I remember what it was like trying to talk sense into somebody that age. Hahaha!