bills10 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 To be fair, freshmen enrollment spiked this year because they dropped there admissions standards very slightly to accept more students. Something about wanting a higher enrollment before taking it to the next level for admissions standards. I don't know too much about it beyond that. Where did you get this information? I know for a fact that our average ACT score, average GPA, and average class rank went up this year, and it is the smartest class ever at SLU. It is also the biggest one at SLU, but it is not because we lowered our standards by any means as far as I know. I can find out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnin'Billiken Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Where did you get this information? I know for a fact that our average ACT score, average GPA, and average class rank went up this year, and it is the smartest class ever at SLU. It is also the biggest one at SLU, but it is not because we lowered our standards by any means as far as I know. I can find out though.I heard through the grape vine (people who talk to people who make these decisions) that the number of accepted students was deliberately increased for this freshman class to ensure increased enrollment. Perhaps this was an exceptional year of students and there were enough competitive applicants so that accepting more did not lead to a decrease in statistics. Certainly possible. What I know for a fact is that the acceptance rate increased this year. Explore all possibilities you want to explain the increase in academic stats. I cannot comment there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 how many out of town games have you been to in your life? i can tell you as a billiken fan that has went to a number of out of town games over the years, there isnt many. slu has never traveled well for any out of town games and it would be a shame to base our conference choice on ease of a drive to peoria or terre haute. that said, i am sure you can really spend some quality time after the games in those red hot mvc cities. i have always wanted to tour wichita. My point is that more fans and students would drive to MVC games, Bradley, SIUC, MO St, Drake, etc. They used to when SLU was in the MVC! Since nobody goes to the northeast (NJ, PA, CT, etc) to see the games now, nobody is enjoying the cities out there anyway. So your point is moot. do you realize that in non revenue sports the disadvantage competitively the mvc would be for saint louis university? go to slu vs siu or missouri state or wichita state or creighton baseball game if they ever match up and see what you get. that said, in the a-10 the billikens have indeed been very competitive in a number of the non revenue sports. So we would have problems in baseball with those 3 teams? I agree. Minor, minor point, though. Savings in travel $$$ and lost class time is better. how many years in the last 10 has the mvc had the superior rpi in men's basketball? Yes A-10 has slightly nipped the MVC, I agreed earlier. But it is not significant, it is a minor difference, not a major one. Incidental. Not like MVC vs ACC. what we save in "travel expenses" slu has made up in increased student enrollment. 2009-2010 freshmen class biggest yet and entrance credentials going up. must be doing something right to attract the east coast student. but if you want the peoria and murphysboro kids so be it. Nice try, no way you correlate increased SLU admissions with our athletic teams having moved to the A-10. most disappointing statement in your post, "MVC all the way, that is our "speed"" talk about settling. We have been at the bottom of the A-10, haven't we? And the two MVC teams we have been playing (Mo State & SIUC) have done well against us the last 8-10 yrs, haven't they? And oh by the way they are considered bitter rivals. Games we all look forward to, and chat about. If they were home and away every year, it would be even more interesting, more intense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 You raise the issue of local players - look at our roster now - BC is from Oregon, CS from Australia, WR from KC, JR from Topeka, our two recruits for next year are from Chicago, KM from Wisconsin, JJ from Indiana, JS from Ohio, CR from Texas. Only KC and FJ are truly local players. Now just because the MVC plays in Indiana and IL, and Kansas does not make those players from those areas local. If they had wanted to go to a MVC school they certainly could have but choose not to do so for whatever the reasons. I am sure there are some non revenue sports who like the idea of playing in the MVC because basically they do recruit only locally but honestly that is like the tail wagging the dog. Whether they like it or not basketball is where their bread is buttered so that dog will always wag the tail. I meant that in basketball we have seen SL area local players at SIUC and MO State that we can relate to, follow, enjoy, whereas that does not happen with A-10. No big deal but kind of interesting to the mix for rivalries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 bottom of the a-10? what are you talking about? the recruiting east coast students is straight from slu. enrollment greatly encreased over the last few years from the east coast a-10 areas as well as ohio. traveling to games, i wasnt talking about traveling to a-10 games in the past. i am talking about easy conference usa drives to louisville, cincy, chicago, memphis, milwaukee. there was not more than about a couple a dozen many years for those games and conference tourneys. why do we have lost class time? rickma charters flights and the students are rarely gone more than one day during the week. same lost class time in the mvc. i believe the mvc has only had the superior rpi three of the last ten years. that is significant. i used those baseball teams as examples. look at all the non revenue sports. same thing. meanwhile we are now sending teams in volleyball, soccer, baseball to the ncaa tourney. we wont in the mvc because we wont have the revenue to keep up with the mainly state sponsored schools of the mvc. personally i couldnt care less about local players that go elsewhere to play whether they are in our conference or not. i would care more about our billikens regardless of where they are from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnin'Billiken Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 why do we have lost class time? rickma charters flights and the students are rarely gone more than one day during the week. same lost class time in the mvc.I'm with Roy on this one. Femi had a test scheduled for 6pm Wednesday, the night of the Georgia game. I was in the room at 10am Thursday when he was taking the test. That is a very quick turn around. Either they get back the same night, or he came to take the test straight from the airport. In any case, no more than one class day lost for nearly 1000 miles of travel in the middle of the week. Traveling in the MVC would not decrease that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.hayes Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'm with Roy on this one. Femi had a test scheduled for 6pm Wednesday, the night of the Georgia game. I was in the room at 10am Thursday when he was taking the test. That is a very quick turn around. Either they get back the same night, or he came to take the test straight from the airport. In any case, no more than one class day lost for nearly 1000 miles of travel in the middle of the week. Traveling in the MVC would not decrease that at all. Maybe for basketball, but that isn't true in any other sport on this campus. I'm not saying that is a reason to switch conferences, because I don't think we should switch. But anyone who thinks that is par for the course for athletes in general is out of their minds. On a whole, student athletes at SLU would miss less class if we were in the MVC than they do being in the A10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaguy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Maybe for basketball, but that isn't true in any other sport on this campus. I'm not saying that is a reason to switch conferences, because I don't think we should switch. But anyone who thinks that is par for the course for athletes in general is out of their minds. On a whole, student athletes at SLU would miss less class if we were in the MVC than they do being in the A10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaguy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Cheeseman, ARe you serious about basketball footing the bill? That is a perception not reality. Basketball is not making any money to pay for other sports....yet! It is going to take plenty of time to pay of the ARena before SLu turns any profit for other sports, see Xavier example of when they built the Arena and profited. As for the MVC, it was neat to watch a local rivalry game the other night versus watching Anne Kordes play a Conference Tourney in Dayton or Rick play a Conference Tourney in Atlantic City, how many people really go. A nice rivalry is what college sports are all about and since Mizzou and Illini are not playing us anytime soon, that's all we have. let's face it who is our big A-10 rival in any sport. The MVC is inferior in national perception and east coast bias is real, a super whatever made-up league is all mythical right now. It is all about mens basketball and tv and revenue dont get me wrong, but we aint making any money....yet and wont for some years. The endless plane trips for all of our kids is ridiculous when you consider the academic loads that are placed on them, basketball flies charter so ya Femi can make that final, but can the others?? I played in Conf USA and it was bad then, now the A-10, there is no identity with any rivals, how many people get geared up for a Rhode Island game, ya its fun to watch Dayton and Xavier, but wouldnt you rather watch the boys in a St. Louis Conference Tourney, could you imagine? I hear your points but the MVC is our answer for now. No matter what we want or wish we are a mid level program until we prove otherwise and thats what the MVC is, add saving travel budgets missed class time and rivalry games and it is a no-brainer for me. Actually the MVC beats the hell out A-10 in soccer as well. Drake, Creighton, Mo ST all did well again, but not all have it. WHo wants to think about our sports in the Bronx or Olean NY are you serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 We have been at the bottom of the A-10, haven't we? And the two MVC teams we have been playing (Mo State & SIUC) have done well against us the last 8-10 yrs, haven't they? And oh by the way they are considered bitter rivals. Games we all look forward to, and chat about. If they were home and away every year, it would be even more interesting, more intense. No, not everybody looks forward to them - most dislike SIUC because of their dirty play and as far as SMS is concerned I can take or leave them. I would say that if you took a poll of posters you would find that they look more forward to the Dayton and X games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I meant that in basketball we have seen SL area local players at SIUC and MO State that we can relate to, follow, enjoy, whereas that does not happen with A-10. No big deal but kind of interesting to the mix for rivalries. Why would I or others care to follow a local player in the manner you have outlined - if I really cared I can go online and follow them just as well without having to actually see them play. I don't see how it is any different then having a local kid go to Duke or UNC or MO for that matter, you can follow them to your heart's content on the internet as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 bottom of the a-10? what are you talking about? the recruiting east coast students is straight from slu. enrollment greatly encreased over the last few years from the east coast a-10 areas as well as ohio. traveling to games, i wasnt talking about traveling to a-10 games in the past. i am talking about easy conference usa drives to louisville, cincy, chicago, memphis, milwaukee. there was not more than about a couple a dozen many years for those games and conference tourneys. why do we have lost class time? rickma charters flights and the students are rarely gone more than one day during the week. same lost class time in the mvc. i believe the mvc has only had the superior rpi three of the last ten years. that is significant. i used those baseball teams as examples. look at all the non revenue sports. same thing. meanwhile we are now sending teams in volleyball, soccer, baseball to the ncaa tourney. we wont in the mvc because we wont have the revenue to keep up with the mainly state sponsored schools of the mvc. personally i couldnt care less about local players that go elsewhere to play whether they are in our conference or not. i would care more about our billikens regardless of where they are from. Apparently we have been able to schedule games so the players have only missed one day of class so far - the game against Georgia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 bottom of the a-10? what are you talking about? the recruiting east coast students is straight from slu. enrollment greatly encreased over the last few years from the east coast a-10 areas as well as ohio. traveling to games, i wasnt talking about traveling to a-10 games in the past. i am talking about easy conference usa drives to louisville, cincy, chicago, memphis, milwaukee. there was not more than about a couple a dozen many years for those games and conference tourneys. why do we have lost class time? rickma charters flights and the students are rarely gone more than one day during the week. same lost class time in the mvc. i believe the mvc has only had the superior rpi three of the last ten years. that is significant. i used those baseball teams as examples. look at all the non revenue sports. same thing. meanwhile we are now sending teams in volleyball, soccer, baseball to the ncaa tourney. we wont in the mvc because we wont have the revenue to keep up with the mainly state sponsored schools of the mvc. personally i couldnt care less about local players that go elsewhere to play whether they are in our conference or not. i would care more about our billikens regardless of where they are from. Amen. And by the way, don't let facts get in the way. SIUC has only one local kid - Anthony Booker who scored only 3 points. Did anyone really enjoy watching him score his one and only basket after 39 minutes of the game was in the books? Rematch of Femi and Booker? I think not. Too bad Torres Roundtree wasn't there as well - oh that's right, he chose drugs over basketball and even dropped out of JUCO as well. For all those who can't wait to see low level local players, hope you enjoyed the game with UMSL and SEMO. If you missed them, not to worry in that Rockhurst, Missouri State, UMKC and Eastern IL are coming up. Does college basketball really get any better than this? All we're missing is Harris Stowe. Don't we have a connection with a local coach there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Cheeseman, ARe you serious about basketball footing the bill? That is a perception not reality. Basketball is not making any money to pay for other sports....yet! It is going to take plenty of time to pay of the ARena before SLu turns any profit for other sports, see Xavier example of when they built the Arena and profited. As for the MVC, it was neat to watch a local rivalry game the other night versus watching Anne Kordes play a Conference Tourney in Dayton or Rick play a Conference Tourney in Atlantic City, how many people really go. A nice rivalry is what college sports are all about and since Mizzou and Illini are not playing us anytime soon, that's all we have. let's face it who is our big A-10 rival in any sport. The MVC is inferior in national perception and east coast bias is real, a super whatever made-up league is all mythical right now. It is all about mens basketball and tv and revenue dont get me wrong, but we aint making any money....yet and wont for some years. The endless plane trips for all of our kids is ridiculous when you consider the academic loads that are placed on them, basketball flies charter so ya Femi can make that final, but can the others?? I played in Conf USA and it was bad then, now the A-10, there is no identity with any rivals, how many people get geared up for a Rhode Island game, ya its fun to watch Dayton and Xavier, but wouldnt you rather watch the boys in a St. Louis Conference Tourney, could you imagine? I hear your points but the MVC is our answer for now. No matter what we want or wish we are a mid level program until we prove otherwise and thats what the MVC is, add saving travel budgets missed class time and rivalry games and it is a no-brainer for me. Actually the MVC beats the hell out A-10 in soccer as well. Drake, Creighton, Mo ST all did well again, but not all have it. WHo wants to think about our sports in the Bronx or Olean NY are you serious? If you see yourself as small then you will always be small. You have to aspire to be large before you can be large. Going to the MVC would be seeing yourself small - I would rather see myself as large and work to make that happen. Show me the numbers that say the basketball program is not making any money - if you require the payment of the arena as having to be shouldered totally by the basketball program then any sport that uses the facilities should be paying user fees for the offices, gym use, weight room, study areas, locker rooms, and whatever else they use as well as the school for graduation or any other activity they hold in it. See my point - the arena is more than just for basketball. What some do not want to accept is the non revenue sports exist because in order for the basketball team to be classified as D1 the school must sponsor a certain number of other sports. So some of these sports owe their existence to the basketball team being D1. If you don't believe me then just look back at what happened to golf - it was dropped for track because the cross country team need a spring activity for its athletes and my dropping golf you saved some schollies and built up the cross country team. No, the MVC is absolutely the wrong place for us long term - only narrow minded midwesterners think the MVC is some hot commodity. The rest of the country sees it as just another second tier conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutangler Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Amen. For all those who can't wait to see low level local players, hope you enjoyed the game with UMSL and SEMO. If you missed them, not to worry in that Rockhurst, Missouri State, UMKC and Eastern IL are coming up. Does college basketball really get any better than this? All we're missing is Harris Stowe. Don't we have a connection with a local coach there? Wow. Just wow. I don't know if this little lowly Valley team should even show up on the 19th by the way you talk. Why even take the court, seeing that SLU is a BCS program in waiting according to the experts on this board? The amount of sheer arrogance in these first five pages is hilarious at best. The A-10 really is a juggernaut though....all of those massive 3-5,000 seat facilities at places like La Salle, Fordham, and St. Bonaventure. Just keep assuming that MSU is on par with SEMO and a bunch of D2 schools though....that's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutangler Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The rest of the country sees it as just another second tier conference. And they see the A-10 as something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBear Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Just keep assuming that MSU is on par with SEMO and a bunch of D2 schools though....that's fine. Next season, when the Billikens make the trip to JQH Arena, I think SLU fans will know that we're not on par with SEMO once they step into the building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 pretty sure temple is a public school. richmond i believe is a private school that was or is afflilated with baptists? not sure on that either. Richmond was founded with a religious affiliation, but shed it quite a few years ago and remains a private, non-religious school. Temple is public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Before all the MSU guys go nuts - I don't think I or any one else was specifically calling out your program. The discussion of the A10 vs the MVC is one that takes a total view to the pluses and minuses of being in one or the other. Yes, I did say I could care less about playing MSU but that is my personal opinion and has nothing to do with if you are a strong opponent or not and is more rooted in that I have seen you play enough over the years that I would prefer to have different teams for us to play. I actually believe that the games we have with you are going to be tough ones for us and nobody should be taking them lightly. This discussion like all discussions are not about taking one team or one year out of the context and using it to make a point - you have to view the discussion in its totality. Also, nobody at least not me has said that we have arrived - on the contrary, we have more work to do but that does not mean we should not keep or ultimate goal in view and that is to be a top 50 program every year. I can understand that MVC fans would not be thrilled with my or many posters on this board's long term view of the MVC and its impact on SLU should we join it but after all this is a SLU board not a MVC or open basketball topic board. Chill out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Correction. I fully admit that Missouri State is not on equal footing with SEMO, Rockhurst, etc. Instead, I grouped them with the others in this thread as an ongoing comment to prior threads that SLU should play nearly ALL local teams. My comments are/were that we already play MO State, SIUC and are trying to play Mizzou and the Illini and that, aside from an occasional other game or two, that should be enough. Too many local games is not good either. No problem playing SIUE, but we already are playing MSU, SIUC, Eastern IL, UMSL, UMKC, SEMO and Rockhurst. Good to see Missouri State fans are still out there reading our Board though! Missouri State and SIUC have been rivals of SLU for the last 20 years. I've enjoyed the games and look forward to more games. If I were the head coach, though, I'd intentionally take a run at and/or take the legs out from under SIUC's best player next year ("just a hard foul" - "going for the ball") as payback for what Lowery has done to us over the years (Lisch, KM, WR, etc.). Under Grawer, SMS dominated us b/c of Spoon. With Spoon, we dominated SMS. Under Romar and Brad, we let some of the better St. Louis kids go to both SMS and SIUC and paid the price. Under RM, things are going in the right direction for us. After RM, who knows. Hope the rivalry continues but also hope SLU never joins the Valley. Also, not that I have any love for your Bears, but I do hate Lowery and SIUC more, and hope you beat SIUC every time you play them this year. As you may know, they have several big football type players - including a 290 lb freshman from NY - are are big, who push/pull and hold constantly but who are not really the most talented players - like Randall Faulkner, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 -whoever said something about the mvc and slu playing in the mvc tourney in stl, do you think the other schools would allow this happen? -esp if, and this is a big if, slu were to win a few in a row and be the only mvc school in the ncaa?? -i would think not, but who knows and i hope we don't find out the answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 but if you want the peoria and murphysboro kids so be it. And whats your problem with peoria kids? SLU has been in the MVC once. When it was a power conference. Let that be the end of the MVC ties. I agree the A10 is a ###### fit, but whatever. CUSA wasnt exactly the most localized conference on earth. Ideally, there will be another big shakeup and we can wind up in a conference with a few of the A10 teams and a few of the bigeast teams. And the notion that being in the A10 is helping recruit students, let alone players, on the east coast is...laughable. The vast majority of students still come from Missouri/KC, Illinois, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I don't now this for a fact but I believe that St. Louis would've fared better in the A10 than Mo State did in the MVC with a great RPI but a lack of signature wins on a certain Selection Sunday a few years back........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 -whoever said something about the mvc and slu playing in the mvc tourney in stl, do you think the other schools would allow this happen? -esp if, and this is a big if, slu were to win a few in a row and be the only mvc school in the ncaa?? -i would think not, but who knows and i hope we don't find out the answer cowboy is exactly right. if slu was in the mvc they would yank that tourney out of st louis pretty darn fast at best rotate it amongst several sites but more likely move it kansas city would be my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 And whats your problem with peoria kids? SLU has been in the MVC once. When it was a power conference. Let that be the end of the MVC ties. I agree the A10 is a ###### fit, but whatever. CUSA wasnt exactly the most localized conference on earth. Ideally, there will be another big shakeup and we can wind up in a conference with a few of the A10 teams and a few of the bigeast teams. And the notion that being in the A10 is helping recruit students, let alone players, on the east coast is...laughable. The vast majority of students still come from Missouri/KC, Illinois, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana. my point was the sample pool. there are going to be far less applicants coming from small markets like peoria compared to new york, boston, philly, washington dc, cincy, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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