Ellis news

[jjray]

I'm guessing they don't offer the ACT in Australia because I think he should take it. Supposedly the ACT measures achievement and SAT measures aptitude. Different people do better on one or the other. He's having trouble on the SAT so it sure would not hurt to sit for the ACT. If it means coming to the USA for that, then I'd do it.

[kevinfootes]

The maximum score of the SAT is 2400, even if the NCAA only looks at two components of it (which is stupid, anyway).

In terms of wht the NCAA needs, the max IS 1600. Sorry you posted before learning that.

[Billiken Rich]

the bigger point in the recent leak of information is that it is now pretty much assured that the "hold up" is not the ncaa. this is purely a problem of ellis not having the academic requirements as of yet. if i was ellis i would take the test again and again until i make up the needed "10" points.

Is anyone else seeing the irony of a Missouri troll flaming our board over academic issues and SAT scores? It takes insanity or two big brass ones to forget Missouri's acceptance of the Southern Idaho unlimited hours summer correspondence course plan.

[cheesycow]

Is anyone else seeing the irony of a Missouri troll flaming our board over academic issues and SAT scores? It takes insanity or two big brass ones to forget Missouri's acceptance of the Southern Idaho unlimited hours summer correspondence course plan.

I also don't like a lot of Mizzou's academic practices when it comes to athletes. I guess I should accept the fact that it's more of a business.

I just think it's funny that the same people who've told me time and time again that I couldn't afford to go to a "real school" are the same people clamoring for someone who can help the basketball team over academic integrity. Someone with the academic resume listed in this thread should not expect to get into SLU with that test score and that supposed GPA.

[kshoe]

I also don't like a lot of Mizzou's academic practices when it comes to athletes. I guess I should accept the fact that it's more of a business.

I just think it's funny that the same people who've told me time and time again that I couldn't afford to go to a "real school" are the same people clamoring for someone who can help the basketball team over academic integrity. Someone with the academic resume listed in this thread should not expect to get into SLU with that test score and that supposed GPA.

Are you just now realizing that athletes don't get treated the same as the general student population? What planet have you been living on the past 30 years?

[cheesycow]

Are you just now realizing that athletes don't get treated the same as the general student population? What planet have you been living on the past 30 years?

I've known for a long time, I just don't like it.

[Cowboy]

the bigger point in the recent leak of information is that it is now pretty much assured that the "hold up" is not the ncaa. this is purely a problem of ellis not having the academic requirements as of yet. if i was ellis i would take the test again and again until i make up the needed "10" points.

-roy i agree with your assessment but this does not jive with the comments made by rick, now it could be rick is protecting the kid

[billiken_roy]

-roy i agree with your assessment but this does not jive with the comments made by rick, now it could be rick is protecting the kid

check you pm's

[kshoe]

the bigger point in the recent leak of information is that it is now pretty much assured that the "hold up" is not the ncaa. this is purely a problem of ellis not having the academic requirements as of yet. if i was ellis i would take the test again and again until i make up the needed "10" points.

I don't think it is that simple. Here is what I think happened.

SLU/Cody made an assumption somewhere along the way that the Pass/Fail grade would be treated like a C for his GPA or would not be included at all. He took the SAT and got a good enough score based on the sliding scale and assuming that the Pass/Fail isn't counted or is counted as a C.

The NCAA comes in and says "we aren't going to accept that Pass/Fail at all." After quite a while of arguing, a deal is cut where the NCAA says we'll let him in if he gets the highest SAT we require (1010). The NCAA cut Cody a break in one way that they promised admittance without the English class but made it as tough as they could by basically throwing out all his other grades and treating him like a flat 2.0 student.

Cody takes the test and improves significantly (I don't know exactly how many points) but falls 10 points short. SLU/Cody are now going to appeal the NCAA and say "it's close enough, he proved that he is a good student. Stop being such hard-asses"

There are two routes that can now lead to him being eligible:

1) The NCAA uses common sense and says this is a smart kid, that has a good GPA and a good SAT. It was only because of this one class that we made him get the highest SAT score required so we should cut him a break.

2) Cody takes the test again on Dec. 5. He improves his score by 10 points. It takes until early January to get the results back but it is in time for the start of 2nd semester classes. Cody is on the court for the Fordham game.

I think just about everything I've said above jives with what Rick has said and what has been reported on Cody's facebook and other places. Let me know where my logic fell apart if you disagree.

[MB73]

I don't think it is that simple. Here is what I think happened.

SLU/Cody made an assumption somewhere along the way that the Pass/Fail grade would be treated like a C for his GPA or would not be included at all. He took the SAT and got a good enough score based on the sliding scale and assuming that the Pass/Fail isn't counted or is counted as a C.

The NCAA comes in and says "we aren't going to accept that Pass/Fail at all." After quite a while of arguing, a deal is cut where the NCAA says we'll let him in if he gets the highest SAT we require (1010). The NCAA cut Cody a break in one way that they promised admittance without the English class but made it as tough as they could by basically throwing out all his other grades and treating him like a flat 2.0 student.

Cody takes the test and improves significantly (I don't know exactly how many points) but falls 10 points short. SLU/Cody are now going to appeal the NCAA and say "it's close enough, he proved that he is a good student. Stop being such hard-asses"

There are two routes that can now lead to him being eligible:

1) The NCAA uses common sense and says this is a smart kid, that has a good GPA and a good SAT. It was only because of this one class that we made him get the highest SAT score required so we should cut him a break.

2) Cody takes the test again on Dec. 5. He improves his score by 10 points. It takes until early January to get the results back but it is in time for the start of 2nd semester classes. Cody is on the court for the Fordham game.

I think just about everything I've said above jives with what Rick has said and what has been reported on Cody's facebook and other places. Let me know where my logic fell apart if you disagree.

Agree, I think something like this is going on...

[Quality Is Job 1]

It's jibe, not jive.

jive |jīv|

noun

1 a lively style of dance popular esp. in the 1940s and 1950s, performed to swing music or rock and roll.

• swing music.

• a style of dance music popular in South Africa : township jive.

2 (also jive talk) a form of slang associated with black American jazz musicians.

• informal a thing, esp. talk, that is deceptive or worthless : a single image says more than any amount of blather and jive.

jibe 3 |dʒaɪb| |dʒʌɪb|

verb [ intrans. ] informal

be in accord; agree : the verdict does not jibe with the medical evidence.

ORIGIN early 19th cent.: of unknown origin

[Pistol]

It's jibe, not jive.

Whoa, I've been misusing that forever, too. No one ever called me out on it, though. Thanks, thicks! I'm always looking to improve the vocabulary.

[kshoe]

It's jibe, not jive.

Thanks Thicks. If Cody had you as a tutor none of this thread would have been necessary...

[Cowboy]

It's jibe, not jive.

-i used jive in honor of CE's Aboriginal heritage, if any

[billiken_roy]

I don't think it is that simple. Here is what I think happened.

SLU/Cody made an assumption somewhere along the way that the Pass/Fail grade would be treated like a C for his GPA or would not be included at all. He took the SAT and got a good enough score based on the sliding scale and assuming that the Pass/Fail isn't counted or is counted as a C.

The NCAA comes in and says "we aren't going to accept that Pass/Fail at all." After quite a while of arguing, a deal is cut where the NCAA says we'll let him in if he gets the highest SAT we require (1010). The NCAA cut Cody a break in one way that they promised admittance without the English class but made it as tough as they could by basically throwing out all his other grades and treating him like a flat 2.0 student.

Cody takes the test and improves significantly (I don't know exactly how many points) but falls 10 points short. SLU/Cody are now going to appeal the NCAA and say "it's close enough, he proved that he is a good student. Stop being such hard-asses"

There are two routes that can now lead to him being eligible:

1) The NCAA uses common sense and says this is a smart kid, that has a good GPA and a good SAT. It was only because of this one class that we made him get the highest SAT score required so we should cut him a break.

2) Cody takes the test again on Dec. 5. He improves his score by 10 points. It takes until early January to get the results back but it is in time for the start of 2nd semester classes. Cody is on the court for the Fordham game.

I think just about everything I've said above jives with what Rick has said and what has been reported on Cody's facebook and other places. Let me know where my logic fell apart if you disagree.

could you expand on your theory on the above? everyone has said all along this is one class in question correct? are you saying that the one class lowered his gpa to 2.0 or are you saying that because the one class was a pass fail the ncaa said to treat his entire transcript as 2.0? that makes absolutely no sense.

i can see the ncaa saying if the school wont give that one class a letter grade, we will treat it as an "F" and then recompute the gpa. and personally i would say that is fair. i would also say that over a four year transcript, i would find it hard to believe that on a "smart kid" (to me a "smart kid is one that has a gpa that would be near the upper echelon of the sliding scale gpa) that one "F" would bring the gpa down to a borderline gpa. now if cody is an average low "B" or "C" student, that was already in a 2.something gpa, that might be the case and all the more reason for the ncaa to take the stance it did.

my point is i think you all are really reaching to blame the ncaa on this no matter how you shake it. and again, there is no doubt in my mind that this is not about the ncaa not getting around to decision. at some point a take it or leave it alternative was given by the ncaa is my guess.

[kshoe]

could you expand on your theory on the above? everyone has said all along this is one class in question correct? are you saying that the one class lowered his gpa to 2.0 or are you saying that because the one class was a pass fail the ncaa said to treat his entire transcript as 2.0? that makes absolutely no sense.

i can see the ncaa saying if the school wont give that one class a letter grade, we will treat it as an "F" and then recompute the gpa. and personally i would say that is fair. i would also say that over a four year transcript, i would find it hard to believe that on a "smart kid" (to me a "smart kid is one that has a gpa that would be near the upper echelon of the sliding scale gpa) that one "F" would bring the gpa down to a borderline gpa. now if cody is an average low "B" or "C" student, that was already in a 2.something gpa, that might be the case and all the more reason for the ncaa to take the stance it did.

my point is i think you all are really reaching to blame the ncaa on this no matter how you shake it. and again, there is no doubt in my mind that this is not about the ncaa not getting around to decision. at some point a take it or leave it alternative was given by the ncaa is my guess.

I think his GPA is fine. The problem is you have to have 4 years of English classes. 1 of Cody's 4 was a pass/fail and the NCAA is unwilling to accept that class.

I agree that if the NCAA had counted that class as an F for GPA purposes it wouldn't have killed his GPA. With 16 core courses, the difference between a C and an F would be 0.125 points. I have a hard time believing that he was at 2.125 and by counting it as an F, he is now at 2.0 (I know he would have to be in that range based on the 1010 SAT requirement). Rather, I think the NCAA said, "we aren't counting that class at all, therefore you don't have 16 credits. As a compromise we will let you in if you get a 1010. We realize that this is above and beyond what you are required to do based on your GPA, but since you don't have 16 core courses, its what must be done."

So, to your original question, yes I believe that "because the one class was a pass fail the ncaa said to treat his entire transcript as 2.0"

[willie]

I think his GPA is fine. The problem is you have to have 4 years of English classes. 1 of Cody's 4 was a pass/fail and the NCAA is unwilling to accept that class.

I agree that if the NCAA had counted that class as an F for GPA purposes it wouldn't have killed his GPA. With 16 core courses, the difference between a C and an F would be 0.125 points. I have a hard time believing that he was at 2.125 and by counting it as an F, he is now at 2.0 (I know he would have to be in that range based on the 1010 SAT requirement). Rather, I think the NCAA said, "we aren't counting that class at all, therefore you don't have 16 credits. As a compromise we will let you in if you get a 1010. We realize that this is above and beyond what you are required to do based on your GPA, but since you don't have 16 core courses, its what must be done."

So, to your original question, yes I believe that "because the one class was a pass fail the ncaa said to treat his entire transcript as 2.0"

I have no idea what the kid's GPA is, but I do know that Rick has said he is a bright kid and a good student. Either Majerus is blowing smoke or the kid has a GPA higher than 2.

[billiken_roy]

I think his GPA is fine. The problem is you have to have 4 years of English classes. 1 of Cody's 4 was a pass/fail and the NCAA is unwilling to accept that class.

I agree that if the NCAA had counted that class as an F for GPA purposes it wouldn't have killed his GPA. With 16 core courses, the difference between a C and an F would be 0.125 points. I have a hard time believing that he was at 2.125 and by counting it as an F, he is now at 2.0 (I know he would have to be in that range based on the 1010 SAT requirement). Rather, I think the NCAA said, "we aren't counting that class at all, therefore you don't have 16 credits. As a compromise we will let you in if you get a 1010. We realize that this is above and beyond what you are required to do based on your GPA, but since you don't have 16 core courses, its what must be done."

So, to your original question, yes I believe that "because the one class was a pass fail the ncaa said to treat his entire transcript as 2.0"

that makes no sense to me unless as i stated that cody was an absolute borderline gpa. and if that was the case, then again, i would agree with the ncaa.

[cheesycow]

I think his GPA is fine. The problem is you have to have 4 years of English classes. 1 of Cody's 4 was a pass/fail and the NCAA is unwilling to accept that class.

I agree that if the NCAA had counted that class as an F for GPA purposes it wouldn't have killed his GPA. With 16 core courses, the difference between a C and an F would be 0.125 points. I have a hard time believing that he was at 2.125 and by counting it as an F, he is now at 2.0 (I know he would have to be in that range based on the 1010 SAT requirement). Rather, I think the NCAA said, "we aren't counting that class at all, therefore you don't have 16 credits. As a compromise we will let you in if you get a 1010. We realize that this is above and beyond what you are required to do based on your GPA, but since you don't have 16 core courses, its what must be done."

So, to your original question, yes I believe that "because the one class was a pass fail the ncaa said to treat his entire transcript as 2.0"

So this is the one instance in the history of collegiate athletics where the NCAA has ever been willing to compromise? Did you pay attention to the Dez Bryant ordeal or anyone attempting to get a medical redshirt, ever?

I think Roy's right on this one, and that the pass/fail was counted as an F which directly brought down the GPA.

I don't think it's fair to CE to count it as an F, at the very least it should be counted as a C or not factor in at all, but to say that the kid has a 3.0 or higher and they hit him with the 2.0 hammer is unlikely.

[kshoe]

that makes no sense to me unless as i stated that cody was an absolute borderline gpa. and if that was the case, then again, i would agree with the ncaa.

Roy, I think you are assuming the NCAA is a logical animal. I don't feel that way and I can tell from listening to Majerus and others they are incredibly frustrated by the NCAA in this case and don't feel that way either. Here's why I'm fairly certain Cody is not a borderline 2.0 student, which is what would be required based on your theory:

1) Majerus has inferred he's not many times

2) The SAT score the NCAA requires is a corner solution. It is the highest score the NCAA requires. If they had required something less than that I could see your "treat it like an F" theory as likely as they would have knocked 0.125 off his GPA. The only way your theory works is if he had a GPA of 2.125 or lower. I simply don't believe that.

3) Per the original post, Cody has improved his SAT score significantly since he first took it. 0.125 in GPA terms is equivalent to a 40 point increase. I'm doubtful that is the significant increase Cody got.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, I think you are assuming the NCAA is a logical animal. I don't feel that way and I can tell from listening to Majerus and others they are incredibly frustrated by the NCAA in this case and don't feel that way either. Here's why I'm fairly certain Cody is not a borderline 2.0 student, which is what would be required based on your theory:

1) Majerus has inferred he's not many times

2) The SAT score the NCAA requires is a corner solution. It is the highest score the NCAA requires. If they had required something less than that I could see your "treat it like an F" theory as likely as they would have knocked 0.125 off his GPA. The only way your theory works is if he had a GPA of 2.125 or lower. I simply don't believe that.

3) Per the original post, Cody has improved his SAT score significantly since he first took it. 0.125 in GPA terms is equivalent to a 40 point increase. I'm doubtful that is the significant increase Cody got.

let me ask you this? ellis and salecich went to the same school. how come salecich doesnt have the same issue? second, regardless, i find it hard to believe a school wouldnt honestly try to assist a student of theirs trying to go onto college if all it took was to objectively translate the "pass" grade to an A,B,C or D. again it makes on sense. third, considering all the obvious slack the ncaa gives for the likes of the big name schools on test scores and gpa tries, it your theory is correct at this point what would slu have to lose by going public with this obvious case of unfair treatment. i would bet the usa today would love to get their hands on such a story if true.

i understand you want to believe the best. but imo the signs point the other way.

[Majerus Magic]

let me ask you this? ellis and salecich went to the same school. how come salecich doesnt have the same issue? second, regardless, i find it hard to believe a school wouldnt honestly try to assist a student of theirs trying to go onto college if all it took was to objectively translate the "pass" grade to an A,B,C or D. again it makes on sense. third, considering all the obvious slack the ncaa gives for the likes of the big name schools on test scores and gpa tries, it your theory is correct at this point what would slu have to lose by going public with this obvious case of unfair treatment. i would bet the usa today would love to get their hands on such a story if true.

i understand you want to believe the best. but imo the signs point the other way.

This issue has to do with before Cody and Christian got to AIS. They were in two different school districts.

[slufanskip]

Doesn't it seem silly to try and conjure up reasons why he hasn't been cleared when there are probably 3 dozen posibilities that we know nothing about. We're discussing whether or not the kid has a 2.0 or a 2.25 gpa when in fact no one on here has a clue whether he has a 2.0 or a 3.6. It is entirely possible and even likely that the delay is something we know absolutely nothing about. Lets give the kids gpa a break.

[kshoe]

let me ask you this? ellis and salecich went to the same school. how come salecich doesnt have the same issue? second, regardless, i find it hard to believe a school wouldnt honestly try to assist a student of theirs trying to go onto college if all it took was to objectively translate the "pass" grade to an A,B,C or D. again it makes on sense. third, considering all the obvious slack the ncaa gives for the likes of the big name schools on test scores and gpa tries, it your theory is correct at this point what would slu have to lose by going public with this obvious case of unfair treatment. i would bet the usa today would love to get their hands on such a story if true.

i understand you want to believe the best. but imo the signs point the other way.

Roy, we certainly aren't going to ever agree on this but you are right that I don't share your pessimism. He is 10 points away from being qualified even if we lose the NCAA appeal. Thats like guessing right on 2 or 3 extra questions. He'll take the test again, pass it, and will be playing by mid January. All I care is that we eventually get him in uniform and he gets some valuable experience leading into next year when we have every player returning.

[Clock_Tower]

Guys. This cannot be the first time in NCAA Clearinghouse history that a kid's school gave a student a "Pass/Fail" grade. At a minimum, the NCAA must be consistent (and maybe this is where their position is hurting CE/SLU) and follow their past conduct in handling this situation. The minute the NCAA starts ignoring its rules, past precedent and test score formulas, etc is the minute the NCAA become liable for acting arbitrarily and then is exposed to lawsuits and the inability to enforce its rules in the future. The NCAA is many things but it isn't that dumb.

Also, if the NCAA "uses common sense" and changes its rules for CE, how can they then enforce their rules against the next CE. This is not sounding like lazy bureaucrats who cannot figure out how to handle a simple situation of one "Pass/Fail" grade. Instead, it is sounding like the default rules are not in the favor of CE, SLU and us.

Finally, what would the basis be in assuming a kid received an "F" or failure in a core-curriculum class if, in reality, he actually received a passing grade from the school. It would seem quite arbitrary and unfair to give a kid an "F" if he really passed the class. Sounds more like the NCAA is giving CE a grade of "C" or 2.0 for his passing grade and that CE might actually be in need of a higher grade. If CE has good grades and if the foreign students don't have to take the SAT, then this is still not making sense.

What I don't understand is -- isn't there a sliding scale whereby a kid can have a lower SAT if his grades are higher and vice versa?