Majerus on Sportsplus last night - Anybody?

[brianstl]

I think alot of students read this board. I also believe that the bickering scares alot of people off at times.

Why would bickering scare off students from attending games? Do they think we are going to seek them out in the stands and argue with them at the games?

The students recieve nothing but praise on here when they show up for games.

[willie]

What if slu72 was on an academic scholarship? Would it then be ok if he got replaced if he wasn't performing in the classroom?

Slu 72 on an academic scholarship.Come on let's get real.

[ACE]

Slu 72 on an academic scholarship.Come on let's get real.

I had a feeling a post like this was going to follow. OK, let's just think of hypothetical situation, NOT slu72.

[willie]

I had a feeling a post like this was going to follow. OK, let's just think of hypothetical situation, NOT slu72.

Sorry 72 I couldn't help myself.

[slufanskip]

I think alot of students read this board. I also believe that the bickering scares alot of people off at times.

I can agree when it gets personal, but disagreements on topics are what message boards are about. Without them, there is no real debate. To be honest, I wouldn't come to the board without the debate and disagreements. I don't come here just to read a bunch of rah rah BS, that's probably not true. The fact is there is good and bad with every program and we discuss our opinions of those aspects of the program. Some people are naturally overly positive and some naturally negative. Skip what you don't want to read, start a thread to discuss what you want to talk about.

When you (someone/anyone) come to complain about the complaining ... aren't you just complaining also?

Most of us on here go to every game we can, support the Bills with our wallets, cheer like crazy when we're at the games and love our Bills ... this is a place to discuss it, and yes occasionally vent some frustration.

[Postcard]

I think alot of students read this board. I also believe that the bickering scares alot of people off at times.

If bickering/debating on a college basketball message board scares students away and further keeps them from going to games, they probably weren't much of a fan to begin with. Tell them to hike up their panties and get involved.

[ACE]

If I may interject, I understand what your are saying, but just because this method was/may be successful does not make it right. That is basically why our country is so screwed up. Imagine if everyone - your boss, the cable company, your government, our president, kept their word and treated you as they would like to be treated. However, too many people are conditioned to think it is okay to get one over on the next guy to get a step up, regardless of the harm it does. REMEMBER, these are very young, very impressionable children. They are NOT adults. Reality is what it is. This has become a business, a big business, I will grant that, but that does not make it right. It just defines reality.

P.S. I don't hate Majerus for what he is doing. He is a product of the environment and he is trying to give SLU what they, effectively, asked for. None of us will complain if we win a national championship (not that I expect that).

Don't be so down about our country. We are digging out of a terrible chapter, but things are starting to get better. This is a great country! If SLU was going make the huge investment with facility upgrades, it only stands to reason that they would also make a concerted effort to improve the product on the court. How do you do that? Recruiting. If Coach Majerus went to every player on the team when he was hired and said... I didn't choose you, you didn't choose me, let's give each other one year to evaluate if we want to continue forward... then I think that is fair. In the case of Relphorde, he decided to leave on his own. Regarding the other three, it was clear that they were marginal D1 players. I view a scholarship as a privilege, not a right. It's not an entitlement. Nobody kicked them out of school. If they wanted to stay at SLU, they could have by paying for it like most other students. They all chose to continue to play basketball on scholarship and they are all now at a level they are better suited for. I don't really for that sorry for them.

[kshoe]

Don't be so down about our country. We are digging out of a terrible chapter, but things are starting to get better. This is a great country! If SLU was going make the huge investment with facility upgrades, it only stands to reason that they would also make a concerted effort to improve the product on the court. How do you do that? Recruiting. If Coach Majerus went to every player on the team when he was hired and said... I didn't choose you, you didn't choose me, let's give each other one year to evaluate if we want to continue forward... then I think that is fair. In the case of Relphorde, he decided to leave on his own. Regarding the other three, it was clear that they were marginal D1 players. I view a scholarship as a privilege, not a right. It's not an entitlement. Nobody kicked them out of school. If they wanted to stay at SLU, they could have by paying for it like most other students. They all chose to continue to play basketball on scholarship and they are all now at a level they are better suited for. I don't really for that sorry for them.

Well said.

Does anybody believe that a student that accepts a Presidents scholarship to SLU doesn't have to achieve some minimum standard of grades to keep his scholarship in future years? The only difference between that student and an athlete is the GPA is set in stone whereas the quality of play level for an athlete to keep his scholarship is more subjective.

For the record, to date, Majerus has not told a single player that he recruited to SLU that he needs to leave the program. Eckerle and D. Lisch knew the deal going in. It may happen in the future but has not happened yet. So every one of these threads that start with recruiting news but turns into a morality debate is nothing more than rehashing of debates that have been had on here time and time again.

[Basketbill]

With regard to Beal isn't he a junior??

[Hawk]

Well said.

Does anybody believe that a student that accepts a Presidents scholarship to SLU doesn't have to achieve some minimum standard of grades to keep his scholarship in future years? The only difference between that student and an athlete is the GPA is set in stone whereas the quality of play level for an athlete to keep his scholarship is more subjective.

For the record, to date, Majerus has not told a single player that he recruited to SLU that he needs to leave the program. Eckerle and D. Lisch knew the deal going in. It may happen in the future but has not happened yet. So every one of these threads that start with recruiting news but turns into a morality debate is nothing more than rehashing of debates that have been had on here time and time again.

Also well said. It's usually the same people too that bring it up. I don't quite understand why every recruiting thread has to turn into, like you said, a morality debate; every thread about the A-10 conference turns into a why SLU should/shouldn't move into the MVC; scheduling threads into who has control over the schedule. Why must these be brought up every time?

[Quality Is Job 1]

With regard to Beal isn't he a junior??

Yes.

[waldo027]

Even if Beal were to verbally commit, there's still over a year for the big schools to steal him away.

[brianstl]

Even if Beal were to verbally commit, there's still over a year for the big schools to steal him away.

I don't think it is going to happen, but you want Beal to commit as soon as possible. Bradley saying he is going to SLU opens a ton of recruiting doors for SLU. Beal is the kind of kid players across the country want to play with.

[Bishop]

Did not mean to make it seem like a solid debate was not something that this board should or wanted to have. Debate is the best thing that could happen for a fan base because it shows it is truly interested in the team.

Also, more students than you would imagine have begun following this board in the last year. Look at the attendance at a simple exhibition game this year compared to actual regular season games in the last few years.

Dont want to seem like im complaining just voicing an opinion which many have expressed on campus in recent weeks.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Also, more students than you would imagine have begun following this board in the last year. Look at the attendance at a simple exhibition game this year compared to actual regular season games in the last few years.

What does the attendance at Billikens games have to do with this website, considering that it has no affiliation with Saint Louis University? I suspect the vast majority of fans who attend Billikens games have no idea that this message board exists, let alone visit it, and I suspect the vast majority of SLU students have no idea this board exists.

[Box and Won]

Did not mean to make it seem like a solid debate was not something that this board should or wanted to have. Debate is the best thing that could happen for a fan base because it shows it is truly interested in the team.

Also, more students than you would imagine have begun following this board in the last year. Look at the attendance at a simple exhibition game this year compared to actual regular season games in the last few years.

Dont want to seem like im complaining just voicing an opinion which many have expressed on campus in recent weeks.

I certainly didn't take it that way. A lot of the rehashed arguments get old after a while.

I would hope more students would set up accounts and join the discussions here. I do think message boards like this probably appeal more to those who aren't in college any more though. You guys are living the dream while for the rest of us, this board is our way of staying connected to the university and the b-ball program.

[billiken_roy]

Well said.

Does anybody believe that a student that accepts a Presidents scholarship to SLU doesn't have to achieve some minimum standard of grades to keep his scholarship in future years? The only difference between that student and an athlete is the GPA is set in stone whereas the quality of play level for an athlete to keep his scholarship is more subjective.

that's a pretty big difference.

[bhayes520]

What does the attendance at Billikens games have to do with this website, considering that it has no affiliation with Saint Louis University? I suspect the vast majority of fans who attend Billikens games have no idea that this message board exists, let alone visit it, and I suspect the vast majority of SLU students have no idea this board exists.

Sure, the majority of students is similar to the majority of Bills fans in that they don't know this site exists, but is it hard to imagine that if more students go to the games, more students might find the message board? No one would suggest that there are 15,000 users on here, but if you think there are only 3 or 4 students on here and it is all just an old boys club of old users you would be wrong.

[milwaukeebill]

i think the student section may have been a result of them not charging for the game. I dont know how many students are willing to pay for every game. Plus the pretty big advertisement and free food before hand.

(speaking of which, did any other students on here not find where the pregame rally was? First of all noone i talked to knew what the BSC amphitheater was. Me and my friend walked all the way around the BSC and couldnt find anything. Granted we went at 715 and it started at 630, but can a pregame rally only last 30 minutes? and also why was it at 630? it wasnt before the volleyball game and was apparently over way before the bball game started. i think alot more students were intrested in the bball game)

[Postcard]

Sure, the majority of students is similar to the majority of Bills fans in that they don't know this site exists, but is it hard to imagine that if more students go to the games, more students might find the message board? No one would suggest that there are 15,000 users on here, but if you think there are only 3 or 4 students on here and it is all just an old boys club of old users you would be wrong.

What does it matter how many students are on here? It's never been very many. Why does it matter all of a sudden?

[Quality Is Job 1]

Sure, the majority of students is similar to the majority of Bills fans in that they don't know this site exists, but is it hard to imagine that if more students go to the games, more students might find the message board? No one would suggest that there are 15,000 users on here, but if you think there are only 3 or 4 students on here and it is all just an old boys club of old users you would be wrong.

I'm not saying that there are only three or four current SLU students using this forum. Rather, I'm saying that this forum had nothing to do with the number of students who show up at any particular event.

[Clock_Tower]

Why punish the kid?

To prevent an even worse system where a coach not only breaks his contract, gets rewarded elsewhere, but then brings his own kids with him acting like a player broker. In doing so, what then would prevent, for instance, Bob Huggins to not only leave K-State but then to bring both his current players from K-State to W.VA, the recruits he had been luring while an employee of K-State and w/ K-State's money as well as other new recruits to then replace, en mass, his new school's roster (W.VA). If Huggins' new school has average players (or even good players but not Huggin's type players), then it would be likely that they are forced out to allow not only Huggins to arrive but to arrive with a roster of players. Further, the coach who bolts (EG Huggins) would then be able to plan his departure, line-up his players and recruits and leave at a time when the school from which he is leaving will not be able to recover -- all other kids have already committed. Ask yourself, when Huggins tells K-State he is about ready to leave and that he may take the following guys with him, if he would have even greater power to command money from K-State not only to stay but also not to wreck the program. What is to prevent a head coach like this from annually threating to not only leave but to ruin the program. Sounds like black-mail to me.

[moytoy12]

To prevent an even worse system where a coach not only breaks his contract, gets rewarded elsewhere, but then brings his own kids with him acting like a player broker. In doing so, what then would prevent, for instance, Bob Huggins to not only leave K-State but then to bring both his current players from K-State to W.VA, the recruits he had been luring while an employee of K-State and w/ K-State's money as well as other new recruits to then replace, en mass, his new school's roster (W.VA). If Huggins' new school has average players (or even good players but not Huggin's type players), then it would be likely that they are forced out to allow not only Huggins to arrive but to arrive with a roster of players. Further, the coach who bolts (EG Huggins) would then be able to plan his departure, line-up his players and recruits and leave at a time when the school from which he is leaving will not be able to recover -- all other kids have already committed. Ask yourself, when Huggins tells K-State he is about ready to leave and that he may take the following guys with him, if he would have even greater power to command money from K-State not only to stay but also not to wreck the program. What is to prevent a head coach like this from annually threating to not only leave but to ruin the program. Sounds like black-mail to me.

I think these are great points. I'm guessing skip could get comfortable with a more equitable system, say, where the coach has to sit out a year if the coach breaks a contract.

[slufanskip]

To prevent an even worse system where a coach not only breaks his contract, gets rewarded elsewhere, but then brings his own kids with him acting like a player broker. In doing so, what then would prevent, for instance, Bob Huggins to not only leave K-State but then to bring both his current players from K-State to W.VA, the recruits he had been luring while an employee of K-State and w/ K-State's money as well as other new recruits to then replace, en mass, his new school's roster (W.VA). If Huggins' new school has average players (or even good players but not Huggin's type players), then it would be likely that they are forced out to allow not only Huggins to arrive but to arrive with a roster of players. Further, the coach who bolts (EG Huggins) would then be able to plan his departure, line-up his players and recruits and leave at a time when the school from which he is leaving will not be able to recover -- all other kids have already committed. Ask yourself, when Huggins tells K-State he is about ready to leave and that he may take the following guys with him, if he would have even greater power to command money from K-State not only to stay but also not to wreck the program. What is to prevent a head coach like this from annually threating to not only leave but to ruin the program. Sounds like black-mail to me.

So what you're saying is that the school and the kid agree to a one year scholarship, the school and/or the coach can decide not to renew for any reason and there is no penalty regardless of the reason.

But if the kid decides not to renew, he's penalized, regardless of the reason.

Seems like a fair and equitable system to me.

Why do the schools allow the coaches to break their contracts? Why do they make the long term contracts when both parties know there is not really any requirement to fulfill it.

The school extends the coach's contract so that the recruits will feel secure that the coach will remain there. When in reality both parties know that if the coach wants to leave he will, without penalty. It's a pretty false security blanket.

Why are we only worried about what could happen with the school if the player could just cancel the agreement, but we don't seem to worry about what happens to the kid when the school just cancels the agreement.

How about if a coach leaves mid contract, he sits a year. How many players are bolting then? And why would a player leave to follow a coach? Don't we all know they sign with the school, not the coach?

[bhayes520]

What does it matter how many students are on here? It's never been very many. Why does it matter all of a sudden?

No one said it matters. Skip suggested the board has 2 or 3 students on it, which sparked the discussion. At least its a new argument.

I'm not saying that there are only three or four current SLU students using this forum. Rather, I'm saying that this forum had nothing to do with the number of students who show up at any particular event.

Which I can agree with, but I don't think that was the implication of the post you were replying to. I think he was just trying to use the logic that student support has increased in the last year and a half, which likely means that there are more students on the forum now than there were say 3 years ago.