Soderberg to..... LINDENWOOD???

[Majerus Magic]

I know its only a message board, but over on mosports.com there are some people saying that Soderberg has applied for job at Lindenwood University, where there coach just resigned.

[brianstl]

I know its only a message board, but over on mosports.com there are some people saying that Soderberg has applied for job at Lindenwood University, where there coach just resigned.

That is not a bad gig to have a that level at all.

[Majerus Magic]

That is not a bad gig to have a that level at all.

No, relative to the competition it is a great gig. However, it is an NAIA school. I can't believe he would rather be a head coach at such a small school rather than an assistant somewhere.

[slu72]

No, relative to the competition it is a great gig. However, it is an NAIA school. I can't believe he would rather be a head coach at such a small school rather than an assistant somewhere.

Would agree with this. Climbing up from Lindenewood would be a whole lot harder than being an AC at a winning BCS school. UB's failure to get a second shot at a D1 school, other than Detroit Mercy, is puzzling. Granted he didn't have great success here but his last season he posted 20 wins and only had one losing season out of five. Plus his experience at UW should count as well. One would think he'd land at least at a mid major.... go figure.

[cheeseman]

Would agree with this. Climbing up from Lindenewood would be a whole lot harder than being an AC at a winning BCS school. UB's failure to get a second shot at a D1 school, other than Detroit Mercy, is puzzling. Granted he didn't have great success here but his last season he posted 20 wins and only had one losing season out of five. Plus his experience at UW should count as well. One would think he'd land at least at a mid major.... go figure.

If this true it seems to me that BS was a perfect example of the "Peter Principle".

[MusicCityBilliken]

other than Detroit Mercy

Brad should have taken the Detroit job. If he failed, that would have at least given 3-5 years as a HC, if he succeeded, like Ron Everhart is doing with Duquesne which, at the time of his hire, was far bigger challenge, he could have bolted for something better.

[pakapablo]

Brad should have taken the Detroit job. If he failed, that would have at least given 3-5 years as a HC, if he succeeded, like Ron Everhart is doing with Duquesne which, at the time of his hire, was far bigger challenge, he could have bolted for something better.

I don't think it was Brad's to take. I heard they pulled their offer when they found out they could get Ray McCallum, the former AC at Indiana.

[kevinfootes]

Would agree with this. Climbing up from Lindenewood would be a whole lot harder than being an AC at a winning BCS school. UB's failure to get a second shot at a D1 school, other than Detroit Mercy, is puzzling. Granted he didn't have great success here but his last season he posted 20 wins and only had one losing season out of five. Plus his experience at UW should count as well. One would think he'd land at least at a mid major.... go figure.

Who knows, maybe he's lowered the bar after being out of coaching for 2 years. Maybe he likes the area and would rather stay here than go on the AC merry go round at his age. Remember, Rich Grawer could have gone the AC route or tried lower level D1 jobs, but he took a high school AD job (granted, it's the best high school job in the area).

[MusicCityBilliken]

Who knows, maybe he's lowered the bar after being out of coaching for 2 years. Maybe he likes the area and would rather stay here than go on the AC merry go round at his age. Remember, Rich Grawer could have gone the AC route or tried lower level D1 jobs, but he took a high school AD job (granted, it's the best high school job in the area).

Didn't Brad get AC offer at Michigan? Not a bad offer. Beilein this year done a nice job. He has turnaround the Wolverines with getting them to the 2nd round of the NCAAs.

Brad has been applying to schools all over the map.(Cal Poly, SEMO, Seattle, some school down in southern FL that I don't remember are the ones we know about).

But, you might be right, I certainly don't know where Brad's head is at. He maybe applying to all these schools and if offered he evaluates if its worth it. He does still has several school age kids and life in Dubuque may not be all that bad. Or he could be dying to get at a head coaching position. If its the latter, he needs to get back into system of coaching, at least at the AC position.

I used to live Johnson City Tenn and I always said that Murry Bartow lucked out at ETSU after he got fired from UAB. Nice town with both community and the local businesses supporting the team a lot. The fans/school are forgiving as they had been with Ed DeChillis, who did a nice job after a couple years and moved on to Penn State. Also. the Bucs play in a easy conference therefore almost every year they make into the dance. Not a bad situation to be in if you don't aspire for the big time. I like Brad and if he hopes to get back to being a head coach he can find a situation similar to what Murry found.

[inthelou]

Brad should have taken the Detroit job. If he failed, that would have at least given 3-5 years as a HC, if he succeeded, like Ron Everhart is doing with Duquesne which, at the time of his hire, was far bigger challenge, he could have bolted for something better.

I agree. Here's a guy that was head coach at two pretty good Div I programs. He also learned under two very good coaches while an AC. I'd be shocked if ended up at Lindenwood.

[courtside]

Didn't Brad get AC offer at Michigan? Not a bad offer. Beilein this year done a nice job. He has turnaround the Wolverines with getting them to the 2nd round of the NCAAs.

Brad has been applying to schools all over the map.(Cal Poly, SEMO, Seattle, some school down in southern FL that I don't remember are the ones we know about).

But, you might be right, I certainly don't know where Brad's head is at. He maybe applying to all these schools and if offered he evaluates if its worth it. He does still has several school age kids and life in Dubuque may not be all that bad. Or he could be dying to get at a head coaching position. If its the latter, he needs to get back into system of coaching, at least at the AC position.

I used to live Johnson City Tenn and I always said that Murry Bartow lucked out at ETSU after he got fired from UAB. Nice town with both community and the local businesses supporting the team a lot. The fans/school are forgiving as they had been with Ed DeChillis, who did a nice job after a couple years and moved on to Penn State. Also. the Bucs play in a easy conference therefore almost every year they make into the dance. Not a bad situation to be in if you don't aspire for the big time. I like Brad and if he hopes to get back to being a head coach he can find a situation similar to what Murry found.

He applied for the assistant position at Michigan, but he wasn't hired.

He's applied to a lot of schools including the one's you mentioned. It has not been a matter of Brad turning them down, it's been a matter of Brad not getting the positions.

Brad wants to be a head coach at the Division I level. This has been his primary focus. His secondary interest is to be an assistant coach at a high major level.

His desire is to not coach at a lower level. However if that is an option he chooses, he'd be much more selective in regards to geography than the other two types of situations.

There's a lot of competition out there, to go along with perceptions, informed, uninformed, relationships etc...

[moytoy12]

He applied for the assistant position at Michigan, but he wasn't hired.

He's applied to a lot of schools including the one's you mentioned. It has not been a matter of Brad turning them down, it's been a matter of Brad not getting the positions.

Brad wants to be a head coach at the Division I level. This has been his primary focus. His secondary interest is to be an assistant coach at a high major level.

His desire is to not coach at a lower level. However if that is an option he chooses, he'd be much more selective in regards to geography than the other two types of situations.

There's a lot of competition out there, to go along with perceptions, informed, uninformed, relationships etc...

Are you surprised Brad hasn't been offered (or accepted) an AC position at a mid-to-high major team?

[courtside]

Are you surprised Brad hasn't been offered (or accepted) an AC position at a mid-to-high major team?

Let me give you an example first, and answer second.

Mike Deane, yes, that Mike Deane, ...(everyone block out their hatreds for a second and be unbiased)...anyway...when he was dismissed from Marquette, he took the first thing that came along, immediately, which was Lamar. It turned a lot of heads. However, Mike Deane was the kind of guy who a) just wanted to coach ball, and grind out several more years making six figure dough before retiring. He didn't want to work forever. He isn't that type. So, he went there for some years, and has since gone to Wagner, which is much closer to his roots geographically. He's still there. What would have happened to him had he sat out a year or so or more? I don't know. But he knew what he wanted and he moved quickly and he's still getting what he wants without the stress or pressure. And, Deane's resume was much better than Brad's.

I'm not sure Brad had as well conceived of a plan as quickly as that. As is the case with other things in life, it's sometimes all about relationships, timing, and perceived opinions.

In some of those places in which he was passed over, he was passed over, for recycled "perceived" bigger names or better coaches, rightly or wrongly, such as a Mike Jarvis. At the very least, they have more contacts and relationships. In other cases, the hot assistant got the position. Or, at Cal Poly, the guy who built Seattle U to where it is now, wanted a change, a new challenge, as he is known as the guy who rebuilds programs. It's been a variety of reasons. If anything, Brad doesn't have a main sell point. Those other three types of coaches have been getting ahead of Brad. It's extremely competitive. There were some interesting candidates who also got turned down for some of these positions. Mike Jarvis? He hadn't coached in 5-6 years. However, people see NCAA's on his resume, they see a charismatic, extroverted guy, who collected a lot of "friends" along the way. Brad is introverted, very private, and sometimes can be rigid in his approach. This doesn't help a lot when seeking positions.

The perception of Brad to many is that he was handed the Wisconsin position and part failed, and part was passed over by the school, against the wishes of the retiring head coach. That comes across as a red flag.

The perception of Brad is that he couldn't get it done at SLU. The perception of SLU is mid-major.

So, people look for success running a program, and/or people look for a guy who can recruit.

I believe Brad has evaluated and re-evaluated many times what he wants or what he'd do. I believe he thinks it would have happened for him much sooner. Brad is a unique coach imo because his strengths are some fundamentals. His strengths do not include recruiting and offense. That can be a tough sell. He's never coached or been outside of the Midwest.

The longer he is out of the game, the tougher it will be for him to get back in at the level in which he wants. Those early opportunities didn't work out for various reasons.

I believe he can be very valuable on a staff somewhere. I am surprised that he hasn't re-surfaced as a head coach at a low major, or an assistant at a mid-major level at this point. But I know that is not where he started his search. He's not a naturally networking kind of person. That hasn't helped. He has his backers, but he never gone far out of his comfort zone either.

[billiken_roy]

it is my belief (no insight) that when brad throws his hat in the ring, his personal priorities of family and faith before all else comes through and job provider of concern probably believes that they should be the higher priority and would rather hire someone that projects family and faith below their respective university.

if true, i admire brad even more. maybe our world would be less f'd up right now if everyone took a look at their priorities.

[moytoy12]

Let me give you an example first, and answer second.

Mike Deane, yes, that Mike Deane, ...(everyone block out their hatreds for a second and be unbiased)...anyway...when he was dismissed from Marquette, he took the first thing that came along, immediately, which was Lamar. It turned a lot of heads. However, Mike Deane was the kind of guy who a) just wanted to coach ball, and grind out several more years making six figure dough before retiring. He didn't want to work forever. He isn't that type. So, he went there for some years, and has since gone to Wagner, which is much closer to his roots geographically. He's still there. What would have happened to him had he sat out a year or so or more? I don't know. But he knew what he wanted and he moved quickly and he's still getting what he wants without the stress or pressure. And, Deane's resume was much better than Brad's.

I'm not sure Brad had as well conceived of a plan as quickly as that. As is the case with other things in life, it's sometimes all about relationships, timing, and perceived opinions.

In some of those places in which he was passed over, he was passed over, for recycled "perceived" bigger names or better coaches, rightly or wrongly, such as a Mike Jarvis. At the very least, they have more contacts and relationships. In other cases, the hot assistant got the position. Or, at Cal Poly, the guy who built Seattle U to where it is now, wanted a change, a new challenge, as he is known as the guy who rebuilds programs. It's been a variety of reasons. If anything, Brad doesn't have a main sell point. Those other three types of coaches have been getting ahead of Brad. It's extremely competitive. There were some interesting candidates who also got turned down for some of these positions. Mike Jarvis? He hadn't coached in 5-6 years. However, people see NCAA's on his resume, they see a charismatic, extroverted guy, who collected a lot of "friends" along the way. Brad is introverted, very private, and sometimes can be rigid in his approach. This doesn't help a lot when seeking positions.

The perception of Brad to many is that he was handed the Wisconsin position and part failed, and part was passed over by the school, against the wishes of the retiring head coach. That comes across as a red flag.

The perception of Brad is that he couldn't get it done at SLU. The perception of SLU is mid-major.

So, people look for success running a program, and/or people look for a guy who can recruit.

I believe Brad has evaluated and re-evaluated many times what he wants or what he'd do. I believe he thinks it would have happened for him much sooner. Brad is a unique coach imo because his strengths are some fundamentals. His strengths do not include recruiting and offense. That can be a tough sell. He's never coached or been outside of the Midwest.

The longer he is out of the game, the tougher it will be for him to get back in at the level in which he wants. Those early opportunities didn't work out for various reasons.

I believe he can be very valuable on a staff somewhere. I am surprised that he hasn't re-surfaced as a head coach at a low major, or an assistant at a mid-major level at this point. But I know that is not where he started his search. He's not a naturally networking kind of person. That hasn't helped. He has his backers, but he never gone far out of his comfort zone either.

Thanks, I appreciate the response. I agree with your points, especially the one about not having a main sell point. He could sell defense, but i don't know how excited that gets folks.

Again, i think Brad is a great person. With that said, he has a lot working against him, and you do a great job of describing those factors.

[kevinfootes]

it is my belief (no insight) that when brad throws his hat in the ring, his personal priorities of family and faith before all else comes through and job provider of concern probably believes that they should be the higher priority and would rather hire someone that projects family and faith below their respective university.

if true, i admire brad even more. maybe our world would be less f'd up right now if everyone took a look at their priorities.

roy, i think Brad is a decent enough guy. I just don't remember hearing too much about his faith until he was out of work and trying to sell his house. I've commented on this before, but Brad's faith story rings hollow to me. He drove past CBC, DeSmet, Chaminade, and SLUH on his way to work in the morning but sent his kid to St. Chuck West. It's not like Brad didn't have the money to afford tuition. For someone to cling to the faith bit but not think it's important enough to be part of his children's education doesn't add up IMO.

roy, I know you'll probably follow up with why Belleville whatever is better than Althoff, but you really can't say that St. Chuck West is better than the 5 MCC schools. If you want to say that going to St. Chuck West was a basketball decision, that's fine. If that's the case, then faith is secondary to basketball for Brad.

[Quality Is Job 1]

roy, i think Brad is a decent enough guy. I just don't remember hearing too much about his faith until he was out of work and trying to sell his house. I've commented on this before, but Brad's faith story rings hollow to me. He drove past CBC, DeSmet, Chaminade, and SLUH on his way to work in the morning but sent his kid to St. Chuck West. It's not like Brad didn't have the money to afford tuition. For someone to cling to the faith bit but not think it's important enough to be part of his children's education doesn't add up IMO.

roy, I know you'll probably follow up with why Belleville whatever is better than Althoff, but you really can't say that St. Chuck West is better than the 5 MCC schools. If you want to say that going to St. Chuck West was a basketball decision, that's fine. If that's the case, then faith is secondary to basketball for Brad.

I don't think sending a kid to or attending a public school means a person doesn't value faith. It's not outward show that's important. Putting a bumper sticker on your car or wearing a crucifix necklace doesn't necessarily mean you have faith -- same thing for which school to go to.

[moytoy12]

I don't think sending a kid to or attending a public school means a person doesn't value faith. It's not outward show that's important. Putting a bumper sticker on your car or wearing a crucifix necklace doesn't necessarily mean you have faith -- same thing for which school to go to.

I don't think footes was saying that Sodie "didn't" value faith, but that Sodie potentially chose basketball over faith in one particular instance.

[davidnark]

Brad is looking for a job as a basketball coach, not a minister or spiritual leader. His faith shouldn't be part of the equation, period. He shouldn't hold it out as a reason to hire him, and prospective employers shouldn't use it for or against him.

We all make career choices that force us to balance work and family. As a mid-to-high profile D1 basketball coach, Brad has chosen a profession that places significant stress on the work family balance. In return, coaches are extremely well-paid and granted a pseudo-celebrity status. Successful D1 coaches are on the road recruiting night and day and in the office watching film all the time when they aren't on the road. It is reasonable for prospective employers to expect this of their coach because they are hiring and compensating them to do so. If Brad's priorities don't permit this balance, that is OK and we can respect him for it, but he cannot and should not expect to have it both ways. (I have no idea if this is the case with Brad, but others with greater knowledge have insinuated so.) Perhaps Brad is best suited for high school or lower-level college ball.

I also agree with Courtside's assessment that Brad's introverted personality and disinterest in networking has a lot do with his struggles to find a good head coaching job.

[billiken_roy]

roy, i think Brad is a decent enough guy. I just don't remember hearing too much about his faith until he was out of work and trying to sell his house. I've commented on this before, but Brad's faith story rings hollow to me. He drove past CBC, DeSmet, Chaminade, and SLUH on his way to work in the morning but sent his kid to St. Chuck West. It's not like Brad didn't have the money to afford tuition. For someone to cling to the faith bit but not think it's important enough to be part of his children's education doesn't add up IMO.

roy, I know you'll probably follow up with why Belleville whatever is better than Althoff, but you really can't say that St. Chuck West is better than the 5 MCC schools. If you want to say that going to St. Chuck West was a basketball decision, that's fine. If that's the case, then faith is secondary to basketball for Brad.

he constantly talked about his faith and attended mass daily. imo, your education for the kids argument is crazy. plenty of very strong catholics do not send their children to catholic high schools for various reasons.

i can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that your above attempt to attack my decisions with my own two kids experiences at the two belleville schools you are way off base. althoff isnt even in the same universe academically as the belleville west honors program. while my son did just fine at saint louis university and is reaping the benefits of such now, he wouldnt have had a chance in hell of even getting past first base of rose hulman. my daughter is going to rose on an academic scholarship. i know without a doubt my son and daughter are extremely similar in academic abilities as proven by my son graduating with honors at slu and beating out quite a field of candidates for his current job.

the difference is that the west honors program prepared my daughter for college. althoff was/is a little country club sports academy.

now i will say i have nothing but respect for the likes of sluh. that is what a true private academic high school should be. same with the likes of say a st joes academy for the young ladies. however, one has to question the social disadvantage you might put your kids in when commuting them to a school at 13 or 14 years old when there is no feasible way to make that commute for every activity or social event.

brad very well may have been faced with the same dilemna. st charles to the city isnt across the street or down the block. i dont pretend to know his reasons he didnt send his kids to a catholic high school. but i do know that i regularly heard brad talk about how important and appreciative he was a catholic and that he attended mass regularly and tried to live his life in the catholic tradition as much as possible and for what was right for his family.

AND footes, even if his kids academic choices were not for faith reasons, they very well could have been for family reasons. i.e. priority number 1 - family. priority number priority 2. god and catholic church.

[billiken_roy]

If Brad's priorities don't permit this balance, that is OK and we can respect him for it, but he cannot and should not expect to have it both ways. (I have no idea if this is the case with Brad, but others with greater knowledge have insinuated so.)

nobody has said such but you.

but now that you have brought up the "dont expect to have it both ways".

ok, you boss tells you tonite, "david, i will make you a rich man. but to do so, this company has to come first. you cant expect to have weekends off ever. if we have a board meeting the same day as your son's 8th grade graduation, i expect your wife will video it for you. i would think that your wife can track your kids growth on a closet door chart and i am sure she can text you any events you might miss. your vacation will be the company annual meeting in orlando, and your wife can go, but you have meetings each day, and if your kids need help with their geomety in 10 years get a tutor."

you ready to take that?

hey i am not making excuses. i am saying there is a great chance that brad not getting the next big ten or even ohio valley job might have more to do with brad being strong enough to say, "no thanks. i had that ride. let's compromise or i'm not your man." and all i am saying is i personally dont blame him. i would never ever want to be a college head coach at the division one level. i gotta believe it is a lonely job that marries you to the film room and your travel agent.

[davidnark]

ok, you boss tells you tonite, "david, i will make you a rich man. but to do so, this company has to come first. you cant expect to have weekends off ever. if we have a board meeting the same day as your son's 8th grade graduation, i expect your wife will video it for you. i would think that your wife can track your kids growth on a closet door chart and i am sure she can text you any events you might miss. your vacation will be the company annual meeting in orlando, and your wife can go, but you have meetings each day, and if your kids need help with their geomety in 10 years get a tutor."

Roy, in my profession, this is a real scenario. I could probably be making three times as much money in a situation like what you described above, but I have elected not to for the same reasons you have outlined. Whether you like it or not, big-time college basketball coaches have to make this decision. In fact, I recently heard Scott Highmark use the term "basketball widow" to describe the wives of big-time coaches (including assistants).

[billiken_roy]

Roy, in my profession, this is a real scenario. I could probably be making three times as much money in a situation like what you described above, but I have elected not to for the same reasons you have outlined. Whether you like it or not, big-time college basketball coaches have to make this decision. In fact, I recently heard Scott Highmark use the term "basketball widow" to describe the wives of big-time coaches (including assistants).

i know. i made the same decision 20 years ago for norwest/now wells fargo and never regretted it. and that is exactly what my point was.

the "amazement" in this thread and underlying belief that soderberg is being kept out because he isnt a good enough coach is wrong. maybe not good enough to ever coach at the level of slu but aside from the assine priority commitment required soderberg is good enough to coach at that level he just doesnt want to commit to that priority and thus is being passed over. i have no problem with those schools making that decision. and i believe he is being kept out because he is over playing the committment. and there is nothing wrong with that from his view either. it is his choice.

maybe he has finally realized that and thus he is apparently now applying for much less demanding jobs like lindenwood where he can watch his kids grow up and kiss his wife more than once a month and go to his church on sunday, etc. his choice. his life. let's let him have it. and keep him off the billiken debates. he's gone.

[moytoy12]

nobody has said such but you.

but now that you have brought up the "dont expect to have it both ways".

ok, you boss tells you tonite, "david, i will make you a rich man. but to do so, this company has to come first. you cant expect to have weekends off ever. if we have a board meeting the same day as your son's 8th grade graduation, i expect your wife will video it for you. i would think that your wife can track your kids growth on a closet door chart and i am sure she can text you any events you might miss. your vacation will be the company annual meeting in orlando, and your wife can go, but you have meetings each day, and if your kids need help with their geomety in 10 years get a tutor."

you ready to take that?

hey i am not making excuses. i am saying there is a great chance that brad not getting the next big ten or even ohio valley job might have more to do with brad being strong enough to say, "no thanks. i had that ride. let's compromise or i'm not your man." and all i am saying is i personally dont blame him. i would never ever want to be a college head coach at the division one level. i gotta believe it is a lonely job that marries you to the film room and your travel agent.

That situation is a little different. A more applicable situation would be if Nark was interviewing at a big firm and he was told those were the requirements up front. Nark would then have a decision to make based on the pros ($, prestige, etc.) and cons (loss of personal life, etc.).

Those are probably similar decisions that Brad has to or has made in his job search. And good for him if he chose family, personal life, values, etc. instead. Also, I wouldn't fault him if he made the sacrifices to coach at a top tier basketball school.

[moytoy12]

i know. i made the same decision 20 years ago for norwest/now wells fargo and never regretted it. and that is exactly what my point was.

the "amazement" in this thread and underlying belief that soderberg is being kept out because he isnt a good enough coach is wrong. maybe not good enough to ever coach at the level of slu but aside from the assine priority commitment required soderberg is good enough to coach at that level he just doesnt want to commit to that priority and thus is being passed over. i have no problem with those schools making that decision. and i believe he is being kept out because he is over playing the committment. and there is nothing wrong with that from his view either. it is his choice.

maybe he has finally realized that and thus he is apparently now applying for much less demanding jobs like lindenwood where he can watch his kids grow up and kiss his wife more than once a month and go to his church on sunday, etc. his choice. his life. let's let him have it. and keep him off the billiken debates. he's gone.

I only see 2 comments that suggest that brad isn't a good enough coach. The others seem to be implying the points you're making above.

Also, if the discussion is civil, I don't see why discussing Brad is off limits. He's a part of SLU history, much like Grawer, Spoon, Hughes, Easy Ed, etc.