Grawer and SLU may finally bury the hatchet

[brianstl]

According to Bernie. I hope this happens. Grawer deserves to be honored for saving us from becoming a DIII program.

Kudos to Chris May, the new director of athletics at St. Louis U. He has reached out to former Billikens coach Rich Grawer and hopefully SLU will honor Grawer at some point for his tremendous work in bringing SLU basketball back from the abyss.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...19?OpenDocument

[Cowboy]

According to Bernie. I hope this happens. Grawer deserves to be honored for saving us from becoming a DIII program.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...19?OpenDocument

this is kind of funny..."may" finally bury the hatchet, good work to the AD

imo coach grawer should be recognized and in a more than decent way as without him we are in sliac or whatever with fontbonne, maryville and the rest

[bills10]

can someone fill me in on the story behind this?

[Clock_Tower]

can someone fill me in on the story behind this?

Not sure exactly how Chris May contacted Grawer or what he said to him. For that matter, don't believe anyone really knows for sure.

If you mean by "story behind this" as to why Grawer is not on good terms with SLU, it all goes back to his great efforts rebuilding the program, saving it from division 2, putting together really nice NIT runs, winning with local kids and then getting his legs cut out from behind by the schools's refusal to allow Craig Upchurch to enroll, refusal to give him more support and then firing him and replacing him with Spoon. Spoon then did all the good things he did plus was aided by the new arena and the better conference, etc.

[Clock_Tower]

can someone fill me in on the story behind this?

Not sure exactly how Chris May contacted Grawer or what he said to him. For that matter, don't believe anyone really knows for sure.

If you mean by "story behind this" as to why Grawer is not on good terms with SLU, it all goes back to his great efforts rebuilding the program, saving it from division 2, putting together really nice NIT runs, winning with local kids and then getting his legs cut out from behind by the schools's refusal to allow Craig Upchurch to enroll, refusal to give him more support and then firing him and replacing him with Spoon. Spoon then did all the good things he did plus was aided by the new arena and the better conference, etc.

[davidnark]

Not sure exactly how Chris May contacted Grawer or what he said to him. For that matter, don't believe anyone really knows for sure.

If you mean by "story behind this" as to why Grawer is not on good terms with SLU, it all goes back to his great efforts rebuilding the program, saving it from division 2, putting together really nice NIT runs, winning with local kids and then getting his legs cut out from behind by the schools's refusal to allow Craig Upchurch to enroll, refusal to give him more support and then firing him and replacing him with Spoon. Spoon then did all the good things he did plus was aided by the new arena and the better conference, etc.

At the Tip-Off Club meeting, May said that they invited Grawer to campus to have a private tour of the new athletic facilities and to thank him for his role in leading the elevation of the program. May said that they wanted to make it clear that Grawer was considered a Billiken and was always welcome on campus. Chris May said they intend to make a more concerted effort to reach out and include a lot of former coaches and players.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Chris May said they intend to make a more concerted effort to reach out and include a lot of former coaches and players.

Some of our ex-coaches we may not want to see

Does anyone know if Bob Polk still alive? He would be a great one to see.

[AGB91]

Some of our ex-coaches we may not want to see

Does anyone know if Bob Polk still alive? He would be a great one to see.

Bob passed years ago.

[kevinfootes]

Not sure exactly how Chris May contacted Grawer or what he said to him. For that matter, don't believe anyone really knows for sure.

If you mean by "story behind this" as to why Grawer is not on good terms with SLU, it all goes back to his great efforts rebuilding the program, saving it from division 2, putting together really nice NIT runs, winning with local kids and then getting his legs cut out from behind by the schools's refusal to allow Craig Upchurch to enroll, refusal to give him more support and then firing him and replacing him with Spoon. Spoon then did all the good things he did plus was aided by the new arena and the better conference, etc.

Grawer was certainly screwed by the Upchurch decision. However, he ultimately brought in several knuckleheads in his last couple of seasons. I think that's what brought him down. It's kind of unfortunate for him, because his last year was a rebuilding season with a bunch of great young players.

[Postcard]

Not sure exactly how Chris May contacted Grawer or what he said to him. For that matter, don't believe anyone really knows for sure.

If you mean by "story behind this" as to why Grawer is not on good terms with SLU, it all goes back to his great efforts rebuilding the program, saving it from division 2, putting together really nice NIT runs, winning with local kids and then getting his legs cut out from behind by the schools's refusal to allow Craig Upchurch to enroll, refusal to give him more support and then firing him and replacing him with Spoon. Spoon then did all the good things he did plus was aided by the new arena and the better conference, etc.

Exactly. It will be nice to see him recognized for the contributions he made to the program. I think he gets overlooked at times.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Rich Grawer should be recognized by SLU for all he did for the basketball program. Those in Generation X and Y probably don't know just how much Grawer did, nor the jeopardy the basketball program found itself then. Grawer basically saved the program from going Division 2 or worse. The program was in a shambles, the bottom of rock bottom when Grawer assumed the reigns in 1982-83.

And the Craig Upchurch Fiasco kept Grawer from reaching the NCAA Tournament. Xavier always had 2 bigs in those days; SLU had Anthony Bonner. Had SLU itself let Grawer have Upchurch, IMO the Xavier dragon would have been slayed back then, and SLU would have been NCAA bound under Grawer, and before Spoon later assumed the reigns.

Also Spoon took Grawer recruits, Erwin Claggett and Scott Highmark, to 2 NCAA Tournament appearances, with Spoon adding significant additions like Donnie Dobbs the first NCAA year and H Waldman in the second NCAA year.

Grawer did lead SLU to 3 NIT appearances, in which in the last two, SLU was the NIT Runner-up at Madison Square Garden.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Grawer had 2 NIT teams that finished 25-10 and 27-10. My recollection is that the 27-10 team (Anthony Bonner's Junior year and Roland Gray and Monroe Douglass' Senior years) had an RPI of 47 on Selection Sunday, but got snubbed by the NCAA, as the MCC then was considered a 1 bid league.

I was at 7'0" Melvin "Big Chill" Robinson's last game for SLU, at Santa Clara, of all places, during Grawer's last season at the helm. Big Chill fouled out and literally walked off the court into oblivion. He transferred to Arizona State, but his potential was never realized. That SLU team had such freshmen as Erwin Claggett, Scott Highmark, and Julian Winfield.

[Postcard]

Is it a stretch to say that Grawer may be one of the top two most important bball coaches in SLU history, just behind Ed Hickey?

[Pistol]

Is it a stretch to say that Grawer may be one of the top two most important bball coaches in SLU history, just behind Ed Hickey?

I guess it's arguable, but a lot would say Spoon was more important. We were consistently in the top 10 in the nation in attendance during his years and were getting nice local/regional media coverage.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Is it a stretch to say that Grawer may be one of the top two most important bball coaches in SLU history, just behind Ed Hickey?

I would say that Grawer is one of the top 5 SLU Coaches in terms of success, just behind Ed Hickey and Charlie Spoonhour, and probably in step with John Bennington and Bob Polk.

We have to give Spoon great credit for getting SLU into 3 NCAA's during his tenure, even if the first two of them significanlty relied on Grawer's players.

Hickey and Bennington were before my time, but I know that both were very successful, and I used to hear from my late Uncle about both, especially Ed Hickey and his great players.

And Polk was SLU's coach during my youth. He had good teams and good players in the old MVC facing off against the likes of Louisville, the then Memphis State, Cincinnati, et al. But those were the days when only 1 team from the conference went to the much smaller field NCAA.

In terms of importance, Grawer was extremely important, perhaps the most important SLU Coach of all when it is considered what he inherited, the big trouble SLU hoops found itself then, and what he did, the tremendous strides the program took under Rich Grawer. I still remember the sign some Mizzou fan raised at the Hearnes Center my Junior year (2 years before Grawer) at SLU: "St. Louis U- In Division 2."

For a Biblical reference, Grawer was like Moses- he led SLU out of the Wilderness and to the Promised Land (the NCAA Tournament), but he was not allowed to enter it himself.

[Clock_Tower]

Is it a stretch to say that Grawer may be one of the top two most important bball coaches in SLU history, just behind Ed Hickey?

Not at all a strech. Not only was Grawer the "saviour" of Billiken basketball - using mostly local talent as one well known poster prefers - but he also was here for a relatively long period of time - 10 years - which is nearly double that of any HC since: Spoon (6 years?), Romar (3 years), Brad (5 years) and now RM (2nd year). On top of it, he was well liked in all basketball circles - from the PHL league through West County and both sides of the River.

There was, quite honestly though, a feeling that his best days were behind him (despite his strong freshman class) and that we did need someone else to take the team to a higher level. Ironically, the issues of that day were SLU's lack of resources, facilities and financial support. Just like Fr. Biondi stepped-up and spent the money on RM and gave RM all the items he demanded (items Spoon, Romar and Brad were begging for), Fr. Biondi gave Spoon what Grawer had been begging for (ability to relax academic standards, higher budgets, high profile conference and promise of a new arena). Only 16 years later!!

All. Please correct my figures (my best guesses) and add the length of tenure for the pre-Grawer coaches.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Also Spoon took Grawer recruits, Erwin Claggett and Scott Highmark, to 2 NCAA Tournament appearances, with Spoon adding significant additions like Donnie Dobbs the first NCAA year and H Waldman in the second NCAA year.

Your memory is skewed a little. Waldman was part of both NCAA Tournament squads (he was the engine), and Dobbs was around as a senior for just the first trip, in 1994. Dobbs's first year was Spoonhour's first year, 1992-93.

Spoon also added other significant players, as by the time Claggett and Highmark made the Tourney in '94, only three (or four) Grawer recruits (Pederson was the third) remained. Spoonhour had added Robinson, Dobbs, Harris, Campbell, Turner, Waldman. (I'm leaving Carlos Macauley out because I'm not sure whether he was a Grawer recruit who chose to stay or a Spoonhour recruit.)

[Quality Is Job 1]

Not at all a strech. Not only was Grawer the "saviour" of Billiken basketball - using mostly local talent as one well known poster prefers - but he also was here for a relatively long period of time - 10 years - which is nearly double that of any HC since: Spoon (6 years?), Romar (3 years), Brad (5 years) and now RM (2nd year). On top of it, he was well liked in all basketball circles - from the PHL league through West County and both sides of the River.

There was, quite honestly though, a feeling that his best days were behind him (despite his strong freshman class) and that we did need someone else to take the team to a higher level. Ironically, the issues of that day were SLU's lack of resources, facilities and financial support. Just like Fr. Biondi stepped-up and spent the money on RM and gave RM all the items he demanded (items Spoon, Romar and Brad were begging for), Fr. Biondi gave Spoon what Grawer had been begging for (ability to relax academic standards, higher budgets, high profile conference and promise of a new arena). Only 16 years later!!

All. Please correct my figures (my best guesses) and add the length of tenure for the pre-Grawer coaches.

Seven years for Spoon.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Your memory is skewed a little. Waldman was part of both NCAA Tournament squads (he was the engine), and Dobbs was around as a senior for just the first trip, in 1994. Dobbs's first year was Spoonhour's first year, 1992-93.

Spoon also added other significant players, as by the time Claggett and Highmark made the Tourney in '94, only three (or four) Grawer recruits (Pederson was the third) remained. Spoonhour had added Robinson, Dobbs, Harris, Campbell, Turner, Waldman. (I'm leaving Carlos Macauley out because I'm not sure whether he was a Grawer recruit who chose to stay or a Spoonhour recruit.)

Sorry re Waldman. Wasn't he sick during SLU's first NCAA game against Maryland?

Dobbs and Waldman were Spoonhour transfer recruits, and both were solid players. I really liked watching both of them play. Dobbs was a shorter version of Charles Barkley. Waldman was an exciting player, a solid point guard who could also shoot the 3.

Sure Spoonhour had recruits. But I don't think it's a stretch to say that the 2 of the 3 best players on both of those teams were Grawer recruits- Claggett and Highmark.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I was glad to read Bernie's column about SLU's AD reaching out to Rich Grawer. I hope SLU can honor Grawer for all the good things and hard work that he did for the SLU Basketball Program. This is long overdue IMHO.

I still remember listening to Grawer on the SLU Campus in the summer of 1982. He had plans for the program, putting the Band (SLU didn't have one then) next to the opponent's bench. He brought back the cheerleaders. He had West Pine Gym get a much needed paint job. He pulled out the old MVC banners of other schools and had them hung in West Pine Gym.

Soon the Alumni Trumpeteers were brought out of hibernation to play at the games.

Grawer even had 2 home games (against Blackburn and Greenville) played during weekday afternoons at West Pine Gym to get SLU students and staff to see the games.

The games were moved back to old Kiel Auditorium, a great old building for basketball, a building that would rock later in Grawer's tenure as SLU beat DePaul to earn a trip to the Big Apple and the NIT Final 4.

I can't say enough about what Rich Grawer did for SLU and the SLU Basketball Program. As I've posted before, my four undergraduate years at SLU directly coincided with Ron Ekker's tenure at SLU. I was at SLU's Law School during Rich Grawer's first 3 years at the helm. And then I graduated, moved to California, and low and behold Grawer's Billikens went 18-12 my first year out here, SLU's first winning season since Bob Polk coached the team. Coach Grawer had accomplished what many at the time thought to be impossible.

[Clock_Tower]

Your memory is skewed a little. Waldman was part of both NCAA Tournament squads (he was the engine), and Dobbs was around as a senior for just the first trip, in 1994. Dobbs's first year was Spoonhour's first year, 1992-93.

Spoon also added other significant players, as by the time Claggett and Highmark made the Tourney in '94, only three (or four) Grawer recruits (Pederson was the third) remained. Spoonhour had added Robinson, Dobbs, Harris, Campbell, Turner, Waldman. (I'm leaving Carlos Macauley out because I'm not sure whether he was a Grawer recruit who chose to stay or a Spoonhour recruit.)

Evan Pderson? He came later during Spoon's tenure. Believe after Donnie Campbell and David Robinson.

[Clock_Tower]

I would say that Grawer is one of the top 5 SLU Coaches in terms of success, just behind Ed Hickey and Charlie Spoonhour, and probably in step with John Bennington and Bob Polk.

We have to give Spoon great credit for getting SLU into 3 NCAA's during his tenure, even if the first two of them significanlty relied on Grawer's players.

Hickey and Bennington were before my time, but I know that both were very successful, and I used to hear from my late Uncle about both, especially Ed Hickey and his great players.

And Polk was SLU's coach during my youth. He had good teams and good players in the old MVC facing off against the likes of Louisville, the then Memphis State, Cincinnati, et al. But those were the days when only 1 team from the conference went to the much smaller field NCAA.

In terms of importance, Grawer was extremely important, perhaps the most important SLU Coach of all when it is considered what he inherited, the big trouble SLU hoops found itself then, and what he did, the tremendous strides the program took under Rich Grawer. I still remember the sign some Mizzou fan raised at the Hearnes Center my Junior year (2 years before Grawer) at SLU: "St. Louis U- In Division 2."

For a Biblical reference, Grawer was like Moses- he led SLU out of the Wilderness and to the Promised Land (the NCAA Tournament), but he was not allowed to enter it himself.

Charlie earned the NCAA wins and still has the most success since Hickey (therefore very deserving and in the Top 5) but I believe Grawer did more for the program. If nothing else, 10 years. Also, there would be Spoon or his NCAA Tounaments for SLU without Grawer.

[davidnark]

three (or four) Grawer recruits (Pederson was the third) remained. Spoonhour had added Robinson, Dobbs, Harris, Campbell, Turner, Waldman. (I'm leaving Carlos Macauley out because I'm not sure whether he was a Grawer recruit who chose to stay or a Spoonhour recruit.)

Just a clarification -- Pederson was recruited by Spoon; he transferred to SLU from Northwestern after completing a Mormon mission. I believe McCauley was also a Spoon recruit.

[Box and Won]

As I've posted before, my four undergraduate years at SLU directly coincided with Ron Ekker's tenure at SLU.

You get major points for staying loyal during this unfortunate period!

[Bay Area Billiken]

You get major points for staying loyal during this unfortunate period!

Thanks. I could write a book about that period.

Nonetheless, we, the few, the proud, always kept the faith.