Team makeup

[SluSignGuy]

thread title: team makeup.

lancome: manufacturer of makeup.

still cheering for the 'cats.

who'd a thought a few years ago that UC would have bragging rights in football, and the domers would have them in hoops?

hope all is well slu.

my apologies to the board for hijacking the thread.

No apologies needed good sir. You are a missed presence!

[Band Man]

3 star isn't very big on Cotto today.

Cotto was at SLU today by the way.

This is very off topic, but in addition to Cotto there was another big name on campus today (I'm about 99% sure). I was grabbing some food and I'm fairly confident that Darius Miles walked in with Tommie Liddell. I wasn't quite positive and I asked my buddy who seemed to agree that it was Darius Miles. I just thought it was kind of cool.

[3star_recruit]

I like Cotto. I simply pointed out that if Relphorde is considered too slow and unexplosive for a 6'6 guard then the same criteria should apply to Cotto, compared to other 6'0 guards.

3Star is one of the guys who isn't very big on Majuers; therefore, all things Majerus are bad.

And you are very big on Majerus. What does that have to do with Cotto's athletic profile? If he doesn't qualify and has to go the juco route my opinion still won't change.

I've been pointing out the holes in Femi John's game ever since he was a Soderberg recruit. I've been saying that I like Brett Thompson's game over John Brandenburg's for over two years. As a mod, you should know as well as anybody that what I think of the coach has nothing to do with what I think of the player.

[Archy McNally]

Two things.

1) On offense, Relphorde appears to play mostly on the perimeter already, similar to Luke. I don't recall ever seeing him post up, even though he is technically the 4 position.

2) On defense, he is usually guarding the opposition's 4-man, which is probably where he can be of most help because of his physical and athletic abilities.

[jjray]

Why don't we play Relphorde the same way he's been used all life (guard) instead of trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Let the young bigs go and play through their mistakes. If we don't get a juco big we're basically pissing away Tommie and Kevin's senior season anyway.

I'm also concerned that we are not hearing even rumors about the Bills chasing a JUCO 5. With all the collective connections between Rick and his staff, we can't locate a serviceable JUCO big? I hope they pull one out of their rear come spring signing period. It's a bit much to expect B. Thompson to play 20 per night right out of the gate his freshman year and Barry at the 5 was a disaster. As to Relphorde, Sloan came to us as a 2-3 and turned into a solid 4. Relphorde has the frame to add weight and strength so I think he could make that transition. Why not keep him at wing? I think Rick already recruited over him at wing with Femi and Cassity. I look at the guard depth and I don't see Relphorde getting minutes there. But minutes are for the asking up front. If I'm Relphorde, it's either commit to bulking up to convert to PF or transfer.

[3star_recruit]

Sloan eventually ended up at the 4, jjray, but it was a gradual process. Relphorde has only played 90 minutes in a Billiken uniform, 18 of them in same game, and probably 40 of them at the 4. That just isn't enough time to decide to permanently close the book on his potential as a wing player, IMO. What's the rush?

As for John and Cassity being ahead of him, they should have to prove it in practice.

[slufanskip]

Sloan eventually ended up at the 4, jjray, but it was a gradual process. Relphorde has only played 90 minutes in a Billiken uniform, 18 of them in same game, and probably 40 of them at the 4. That just isn't enough time to decide to permanently close the book on his potential as a wing player, IMO. What's the rush?

As for John and Cassity being ahead of him, they should have to prove it in practice.

Sloan turned into a 4 because the line was shortest there. We aren't becoming a top 25 team with Chris Sloan as our 4 or with MR at the 4. It just isn't his game. I'm with 3 star ... what's the rush? Give him another year and see what develops. If he ever starts to play loose I think we will see a different player. He has great size for a 3, I'd hate to see him turn into a player somewhere else. Maybe he ends up great, maybe he ends up as a 6th or 7th man for his career. Great teams need depth. He played 4 this year, but hell didn't everyone on the team over 5'3" tall play the 4 at one time or another.

[moytoy12]

but hell didn't everyone on the team over 5'3" tall play the 4 at one time or another.

lol. There's probably a viable argument that D. Brown gave us our best minutes at the 4.

[jjray]

Sloan eventually ended up at the 4, jjray, but it was a gradual process. Relphorde has only played 90 minutes in a Billiken uniform, 18 of them in same game, and probably 40 of them at the 4. That just isn't enough time to decide to permanently close the book on his potential as a wing player, IMO. What's the rush?

As for John and Cassity being ahead of him, they should have to prove it in practice.

Fair point but if I was Relphorde and looked at the depth chart for next year, I would be bulking up. Also, my memory was that Sloan played 2-3 his freshman year at SLU but then went fulltime to 4 thereafter. If so, Relphorde's situation would be pretty close to that of Chris Sloan. (Not suggestion that Relphorde will instantly morph into Chris Sloan.)

[brianstl]

Fair point but if I was Relphorde and looked at the depth chart for next year, I would be bulking up. Also, my memory was that Sloan played 2-3 his freshman year at SLU but then went fulltime to 4 thereafter. If so, Relphorde's situation would be pretty close to that of Chris Sloan. (Not suggestion that Relphorde will instantly morph into Chris Sloan.)

Chris Sloan didn't instantly morph into Chris Sloan.

[MB73]

I am still worried about our bigs. If all qualify, then I think we will be okay, but very young. I still think Willie Reed can be an inpact player on the defensive end of the court. He looks to be athletic and able to come in and disrupt the other team on the defensive end of the court.

I have to think that Reed has a good chance to qualify. Otherwise RM would be recruiting another big. And we have not heard of any other recruiting at this time. Sure would like to see a player like Harrelson coming in. Would make me feel a whole lot better about next year's team.

Totally agree.

Thrilled with this yrs class, but wish there was another big... need some 7' Lithuanian to show up.

If Reed cannot get in school, busts, then we are not where we want to be, too many guards and swingmen. But again, got to be happy with what is going on compared to the past.

[jjray]

Chris Sloan didn't instantly morph into Chris Sloan.

And your point? The issue debated is whether Relphorde should try and convert to PF. One never gets to the finish line unless first taking a forward step. Above I have advocated that Marcus bulk up and start the process. Gratuitous smart ass comments are what ruin civil conversation.

[Band Legend]

Totally agree.

Thrilled with this yrs class, but wish there was another big... need some 7' Lithuanian to show up.

If Reed cannot get in school, busts, then we are not where we want to be, too many guards and swingmen. But again, got to be happy with what is going on compared to the past.

This popped into my head the other day; what if Rick pulled a European big man out of his keester? He obviously has excellent connections all over the world. Maybe there is some 18 year old Finn who idolized Hanno Mottola and wants to come star for Rickma. Stranger things have happened.

[davidnark]

I'm also concerned that we are not hearing even rumors about the Bills chasing a JUCO 5. With all the collective connections between Rick and his staff, we can't locate a serviceable JUCO big?

Do impact jucos still exist? How many were key contributors on top 25 teams this year? Hasn't the prep school phenomenon, combined with more rigid juco transfer rules, really diminished the availability of quality juco recruits, particularly juco big men? Would Eberhardt have been a second team juco all-american 10 or 15 years ago? Would Stemler been considered a top juco recruit 10 or 15 years ago? IMO, juco recruiting is far removed from the days of Cincy, UNLV, and Ok State building top 10 teams primarily through the juco route.

[Flyers86]

If all the recruits qualify, and assuming there are a couple of departures next year, this is what we'll have:

Bigs-Conklin, Thompson, Eberhardt, Knollmeyer, Reed 5

Wings-TL, Femi, Cassity, MR 4

Guards-KL, PE, KM, RC 4

That's 13 on scholies. The above seems like a pretty good spread to my way of thinking. No doubt young, but if this is indeed how it shakes itself out, we'll not necessarily be required to toss the kiddie corps right into the fray, but instead work them into the rigors of D1 ball gradually.

For example, PE or KL could man the point with RC and KM as backups. By the way is RC a true PG or a two? Also, do both KM and RC like to take it inside, and please let them be better shooters than DP. KL provides a solid 3 threat and hopefully PE's 3 shot improves over the summer.

Same with wings: TL and MR are back which will not put pressure on KC or FJ to produce right away. Would like to see at least one of these guys be a consistent 3 pt threat, but don't see it right now. Unless TL captures that lightning in the bottle he had his soph year during that one stretch where every 3 he tossed up seemed to go in. I don't know about KC and FJ 3 point ability, but it doesn't seemed to have been advertised much.

Inside game: This is the spot where we may need immediate production from a rookie. BE can't play the 5 nor can AK. Is BT a true banger and post player? Most of what I've read seems to indicate he's the type of big that can handle the ball and prefers to play more of an outside game. That may not be a bad thing, if he can play interior D and rebound. But this is where we need a "true big". Some guy who provides us a scoring threat down low to draw defenders away from the perimiter game. I have no clue as to whether WR is ready to assume a starting role right from day one. But based on information here, it sounds like he's gonna' be a project. Conklin seems to be the closest thing we have to a banger out of this group. Fair assessment? But is he likely to be a Kevin Love or Tyler Hansboro from day one? Given the above shortcomings, it would not surprise me to see the staff still bring in a true JUCO PF this spring. I don't think their work is done at that position.

The above squad does seem to reflect RM's style of play. A big front court, ie Conklin, Thompson, and Reed with a couple of the bigs having the ability to step outside ala Van Horn. Also a couple of big guards/wings for the future in FJ and KC. And if everyone develops as hoped, this is the type of well rounded squad that will produce the success we are all thirsting for and expect from the RM hire. Just read the SI article on the dance, and all coaches seem to agree "size matters" at the top level. Granted some teams that are dancing have been successful w/o a dominant big or two, but their chances diminish as they advance and start running into the big front line defenses and offenses. FL didn't win back to backs relying on 3 pt shooting, although they had a good one. Georgetown and Ct proved bigs alone can't do it. You still need good guard play and a 3 shooter to keep defenses honest. (As an aside, I thought CT looked like the worst coached team in the dance in their first round loss. They looked totally disjointed in the half court. )

Obviously a lot of positives have to happen with the above group, ie acceptance of RM's discipline and volatility, academic success, etc but if they stay together, stay passionate, and develop we could be on to something special. The holes have been filled. It's the most complete well rounded squad we've had since 2000.

A lot of the players we have now will not be there next year, I cant give away my source but they were told yesterday

[brianstl]

And your point? The issue debated is whether Relphorde should try and convert to PF. One never gets to the finish line unless first taking a forward step. Above I have advocated that Marcus bulk up and start the process. Gratuitous smart ass comments are what ruin civil conversation.

I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I just think we sometimes forget what a long process it was before Chris became a decent four. It was an ugly process that I don't think really worked until his senoir year. I would reallybe disappointed if we don't have two guys that would be better at the 4 by that point in Marcus's career. In realizing that, I think it would be a waste of time trying to do that. Marcus would be best suited trying to improve as a wing.

[Majerus Magic]

A lot of the players we have now will not be there next year, I cant give away my source but they were told yesterday

Andy Strickland does not count.

[Billiken Rich]

A lot of the players we have now will not be there next year, I cant give away my source but they were told yesterday

Messege boards being what they are, I'll say welcome to Billikens.com. We always love new posters. Ever since I pissed off Monroe Douglass's wife by not believing it was really her on this board, I'm a bit more cautious............

However please understand that with a "flyers" handle and posting what is likely crap right out of the gate with your first post, most of us will not pay you much attention till you can prove your worth....

Good evening!

[billiken_roy]

However please understand that with a "flyers" handle and posting what is likely crap right out of the gate with your first post, most of us will not pay you much attention till you can prove your worth....

Good evening!

rich my first thought when i read "flyers" was east st louis flyers as in anthony mitchell and tommie liddell. not dayton.

[Pistol]

Do impact jucos still exist? How many were key contributors on top 25 teams this year? Hasn't the prep school phenomenon, combined with more rigid juco transfer rules, really diminished the availability of quality juco recruits, particularly juco big men? Would Eberhardt have been a second team juco all-american 10 or 15 years ago? Would Stemler been considered a top juco recruit 10 or 15 years ago? IMO, juco recruiting is far removed from the days of Cincy, UNLV, and Ok State building top 10 teams primarily through the juco route.

I'm with you on this one- you beat me to it. I just don't think the answer lies in the JUCO ranks anymore. Even the top JUCO players seem to amount to role players on their D1 teams. I'd much rather see us sign guys out of high school and get 4 year players. I'd rather see guys go through that learning curve (which we now know is huge with Majerus) as freshmen or redshirts than as juniors that are expected to contribute immediately.

[brianstl]

I'm with you on this one- you beat me to it. I just don't think the answer lies in the JUCO ranks anymore. Even the top JUCO players seem to amount to role players on their D1 teams. I'd much rather see us sign guys out of high school and get 4 year players. I'd rather see guys go through that learning curve (which we now know is huge with Majerus) as freshmen or redshirts than as juniors that are expected to contribute immediately.

I think if Harrellson would become availible he would have an impact on this team next year.

[Pistol]

I think if Harrellson would become availible he would have an impact on this team next year.

True, but I also have more faith in guys transferring from other D1 programs than JUCOs. I'm not sold on the JUCO product as a whole. A lot of the better programs (Barton County, for example) are questionable in academics, ethics, etc.

[Billiken Rich]

rich my first thought when i read "flyers" was east st louis flyers as in anthony mitchell and tommie liddell. not dayton.

Good point!

I don't follow highschool ball at all so missed that obvious point. Once again if "Flyers" is for real, welcome to the board. I don't generally believe "one post insider" types......

[Flyers86]

Messege boards being what they are, I'll say welcome to Billikens.com. We always love new posters. Ever since I pissed off Monroe Douglass's wife by not believing it was really her on this board, I'm a bit more cautious............

However please understand that with a "flyers" handle and posting what is likely crap right out of the gate with your first post, most of us will not pay you much attention till you can prove your worth....

Good evening!

ok BillikenRich, I understand what your saying. TL is having surgery on March 31st at 6am on his other ankle. Have you heard that yet

[Flyers86]

rich my first thought when i read "flyers" was east st louis flyers as in anthony mitchell and tommie liddell. not dayton.

Exactly I forgot AM is having surgery also on his knee