Bernie article

[slufanskip]

So since he is the head basketball coach at SLU he must censor himself when his opinion differs from that of the Catholic Church. That is exactly what your saying ... do you realize how ridiculous that is?

How about Players? They are high profile, can we only recruit players who agree not to speak if their views are different than those of the Catholic Church?

[slufanskip]

SLU doesn't care. He wasn't acting on behalf of the University. If the school didn't allow its staff to have different viewpoints, it would be a lonely little island. If it really wants to be a top-ranked school, it can't make itself 'Catholic-only' and has to demonstrate that it allows people of all walks of life to learn and work there. Even if it's rooted in Jesuit tradition, I think it was Skip who said before that the Jesuit way of teaching encourages you to make your own decisions and think about things from all angles, not to allow your views to be dictated by someone else's dogma (oh yeah, Rick said that too).

The school has already said that Rick's not in trouble and as long as he isn't pretending that the school sent him there, SLU respects his freedom of speech.

Why do you keep hammering Church doctrine? That is by no means SLU's only mission. It doesn't matter if faculty or students share those beliefs or not. I had multiple theology professors with relatively liberal standpoints on social issues, and would have been much closer to Rick's side than the archbishop's. It sounds like you would rather have the school turn into some reactionary theocratic institution like Liberty or Oral Roberts in the evangelical world, but Catholic. Schools like that don't garner much respect outside of their bubbles (without even taking into account the widespread accounting fraud going on there). SLU has to not only allow, but welcome all viewpoints in order to stay academically (and athletically) competitive.

That wasn't my quote, but I can understand why you would assume that if the quote was intelligent it was one of mine. Us used car salesman are generally known for our intelligent quotes?

Notice how the heated seats keep your ass warm! Just another intelligent quote ... feel free to use it as you see fit.

[provos528]

Brianstl, Calm down and don't be nervous, as I've heard some rumour that Biondi gave the "GO" Signal to Rick about the interview with Bernie. Biondi and Burke are opposite of the spectrum regarding the interpretation of church theology.. Vatican also knows that they don't want another bunch of conflicts (Arrupe era) with the Jesuits regarding such a minor incident.

Adolfo Nicholas is as liberal as Arrupe.. so no Worries..

[ACE]

Rickma is now being stupid.

He got a free pass from Biondi's office, and he needed to use it AND keep his mouth shut for any future questions. There is little to be gained by publically calling out the Archbishop, no matter if it is done with respect or disdain. He made his point the first time. Move on to the things you were actually hired to do.

"being stupid"??? Don't let your dislike for Majerus cloud your judgement on this issue.

First of all, Majerus did not go out of his way to bring up this issue. I guess his biggest mistake (if it even is a mistake) was to answer a stupid question from a tv reporter honestly. He wasn't blasting the Catholic church on those two issues. He is also not "calling out the Archbishop," the Archbishop called him out originally. I think Majerus now has the right to defend his side of the story. I think he came across very well in the Micklasz column and stated a very personal story on why he supported stem cell research. His position on abortion is hardly radical. It is a view shared by the majority of the Western world. I think these are two issues that reasonable folks should at least still be able to debate. Isn't that part of the education process and what is supposed to go on in a university setting, including a Catholic university?

[Sheltiedave]

So since he is the head basketball coach at SLU he must censor himself when his opinion differs from that of the Catholic Church. That is exactly what your saying ... do you realize how ridiculous that is?

Skip, Rickma had the cover of plausible deniability with his first TV interview. Off campus, off hours, off the cuff, no blood, no harm, no foul. He doesn't need to censor anything. He needs to say "I have no further comments in these areas" and be done with it.

The media interview Burke, he scolds the situation, expresses concern, mutters about grave sin, but he is out of town and insulated from much of the tempest. It blows over.

Rickma provides time during work hours to clarify that he is obdurate, does it to a commentary writer who has earned Biondi's personal emnity, indicates he could care less whatever the good Burke could tells him, and it is the front page of the paper(sports section in our edition.) Extends the controversy for multiple days, and now both Biondi AND Burke are in town, where they have to deal with the mess themselves.

While it is great for Rickma to beat his chest and show he is his own man, it is NEVER good to make your boss look bad. It is even worse to make your boss look bad, make his boss look stupid, and due it in public as you thumb your eye at both. If you took all three guys and put them in a room, Rickma would have the smallest ego(and his is quite considerable.)

As it stands, Biondi is going to personally have to go dance on Burke's carpet sooner or later, which means Rickma is filling out his dance card to waltz with Biondi. He has escalated a small tempest into a fight that has been noted all the way to the Vatican. Burke has shuttered parishes, excommunicated devout Catholics, and will willingly deal with a silly basketball coach in like manner if he desires.

The last thing Biondi wants to occur during his final golden years at SLU is to have his star in the heavens visit the wrath of the Archbishop and significant Catholic donors/board members on his head. Rickma is running toward a lose/lose situation for no reason.

[Postcard]

Good points, Skip.

Also, no one has mentioned this yet, but another A10 coach up in Philly has a radio show (I think he still has it, but at least had it for years)- Phil Martelli. He is a wear-it-on-his-sleeve liberal in pretty much every single issue that could be debated in politics. His show is nearly as much a political talk show as it is basketball, and last I heard it had a pretty good following. There's another coach at a Catholic school who has some viewpoints that might not fit into the Church's doctrine. No one seemed to raise any eyebrows about it, either.

Which brings me to a key point: why did the KMOV reporter insist on linking Majerus' support of Clinton to being negative to his Catholic faith? Are there not political issues on both sides of the fence that go against Catholic teaching? Does the Church support the death penalty and war (as Republicans do)? It just seems fishy to me, and someone had an agenda. KMOV and its goofy moustachioed reporter are at fault here, not Majerus, not Archbishop Burke (until he goes off the deep end and cries out for discipline and denial of Communion).

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. If you're not you might want to meet Billikan at the secret hideout tonight to go over the plan to thwart the conspiracists.

[brianstl]

Brianstl, Calm down and don't be nervous, as I've heard some rumour that Biondi gave the "GO" Signal to Rick about the interview with Bernie. Biondi and Burke are opposite of the spectrum regarding the interpretation of church theology.. Vatican also knows that they don't want another bunch of conflicts (Arrupe era) with the Jesuits regarding such a minor incident.

Adolfo Nicholas is as liberal as Arrupe.. so no Worries..

I know Adolfo Nicholas is liberal, but I just can't help but worry a bit. The church has gotten really stringent on the enforcement of doctrine recently and I just hope this doesn't get bigger than it is. I am probably worrying too much about it, but I know Burke will try blow this up as big as possible. I don't want Rick to give any extra ammo to Burke. If it comes down to a battle between Biondi and Burke, Biondi wins right now. I want it to stay that way.

[provos528]

Skip, Rickma had the cover of plausible deniability with his first TV interview. Off campus, off hours, off the cuff, no blood, no harm, no foul. He doesn't need to censor anything. He needs to say "I have no further comments in these areas" and be done with it.

The media interview Burke, he scolds the situation, expresses concern, mutters about grave sin, but he is out of town and insulated from much of the tempest. It blows over.

Rickma provides time during work hours to clarify that he is obdurate, does it to a commentary writer who has earned Biondi's personal emnity, indicates he could care less whatever the good Burke could tells him, and it is the front page of the paper(sports section in our edition.) Extends the controversy for multiple days, and now both Biondi AND Burke are in town, where they have to deal with the mess themselves.

While it is great for Rickma to beat his chest and show he is his own man, it is NEVER good to make your boss look bad. It is even worse to make your boss look bad, make his boss look stupid, and due it in public as you thumb your eye at both. If you took all three guys and put them in a room, Rickma would have the smallest ego(and his is quite considerable.)

As it stands, Biondi is going to personally have to go dance on Burke's carpet sooner or later, which means Rickma is filling out his dance card to waltz with Biondi. He has escalated a small tempest into a fight that has been noted all the way to the Vatican. Burke has shuttered parishes, excommunicated devout Catholics, and will willingly deal with a silly basketball coach in like manner if he desires.

The last thing Biondi wants to occur during his final golden years at SLU is to have his star in the heavens visit the wrath of the Archbishop and significant Catholic donors/board members on his head. Rickma is running toward a lose/lose situation for no reason.

Most of the big donors of SLU are liberal Catholics (anti-Burke) -- most conservative Catholics don't want anything to do with the Jesuits, and I would bet on it that Biondi wouldn't dance to the tune of Burke's..

[brianstl]

Most of the big donors of SLU are liberal Catholics (anti-Burke) -- most conservative Catholics don't want anything to do with the Jesuits, and I would bet on it that Biondi wouldn't dance to the tune of Burke's..

Biondi only has to worry if this gets preceived as bigger than it should back in Rome. He has nothing to worry about from Burke himself.

[cheeseman]

By the way - the "no comment" statement has gotten more people in trouble than those who actually respond. Only on TV do you hear that stupid statement used and the person usually looks very defensive. In the real world, I know I had to speak for a very large organization on topics with the press and some were very sticky, you would be advised not to say "no comment" it looks like you are hiding something and when you do not comment you leave the person asking to the question to come to their own decision regarding your position and it usually is not the one you want to be out there. They tell you to have a sense about yourself, answer the question openly but not necessarily giving the farm away - in other words, have a talking point and continue to hammer that. What RM could have said is - I believe in life, healing, and non governmental interference in people's lives.

[Sheltiedave]

Ace, Rickma earns a very good living with his communications skills. His words have power, and he needs to be cognizant that reporters are going to hound him for quotes and stories. If he cannot recognize the point where he is going to generate negative publicity for the university, than he is being stupid.

He could respond by stating he supported Hillary, was a lifelong Democrat whose father was president of a huge UAW local, and he was eager to hear what Clinton had to say. It would have been a good snippet, made the news, and all would be seen in a good light.

Sometimes there is no need to "defend" your side of a story. I found his initial statements to be very clear and well founded. I also found the Bernie column to be a significant effort to broaden the damage rather than act to contain it, as viewed by players in the diocese.

[billiken_roy]

this whole thing gets more amazing by the day. i totally agree rickma has the right to say or believe whatever he wants. free speech is a cornerstone of america. that said, anyone that thinks that gives anyone carte blanche to say whatever they want anywhere, anytime, anyhow, is being naive. you say something controversial, there will be reprecussions either socially, politically, businesswise, even financially.

those repercussions are the rights of those listening to what someone says. no one can put rickma in jail for saying what his beliefs are, but they sure can not like him, or refuse to use him as a spokesman in an advertisement, or even fire him from his job. typically a lot of employment contracts have "ambassadorial clauses" that make it known your employer expects you to conduct yourself in a manner that upholds the reputation and beliefs in a certain manner not only during business hours but in your personal time. at some point if majerus has such a clause, this will have to stop.

it amazed me from the first time this broke that rickma put himself in this position. that said, as burwell and bernie both write, rickma is a free thinking complex man that deserves to have his own beliefs. why he didnt walk away from the original reporter is astounding. why he now publically reinforces what he said again instead of "letting it die" is even more astounding.

obviously there are a lot of reasons this may have gotten to this point. and whether he actually feels that strongly about these issues he feels the need to take this continued stance, or his ego is so big he feels the need to let the world know about all his beliefs, or if he just doesnt think about what he says when he brutally honestly answers a question when asked. it doesnt really matter why.

currently, i doubt it has kept him from doing his job, i.e. being a basketball coach and building the saint louis university basketball program in particular. however, if this does put the program in the position that it affects our ability to get the best players possible or begin to lose donors or season ticket holders, then and only then does that constitute "keeping him from doing his job." at that point, one hopes biondi does the right thing.

hopefully that private discussion is already scheduled to take place so discussions about rickma can get back to beating lasalle and dayton. i think it is time for rickma to worry more about dwayne polk and kevin lisch and not are the voters understanding the strength of his personal political stands.

[jimbofive]

I really didn't want to get in on this debate but IMO there is a big difference between being pro-choice and being pro-abortion. I know many people, myself included who are pro-choice but would never consider abortion as a viable option for themselves personally. They are just opposed to the government deciding what it right and moral for them. That is the impression I got from RM, not that he was pro-abortion.

I am both opposed to the death penalty and pro-choice and the decision is quite simply because I don't think the government has the right to interfere either way. My personal belief's are pro-life but my political belief's are pro-choice.

That said, a road win this weekend for the Bill's would be nice.

Ditto.

[ACE]

For what it is worth, Randy Karraker just said it was "smart" for Majerus to get his side of the story out there. The debate continues.

[SShoe]

Well if Randy K said it, count me in!

Just kidding Ace.

Personally, all this has made me like Rickie more than I previously did. I've felt pretty down about our coach, with the way the season has gone, the SI article, etc. I really wasn't sure if he was going to be able to take SLU's basketball team to the next level. But now that I know his political views are more aligned with mine, I am once again confident that Rick will turn this program into a powerhouse.

This whole thing is so stupid. I just hope he doesn't say he's against the war. The last thing SLU needs is an unpatriotic coach. That'll ruin our recruiting.

[billiken_roy]

Personally, all this has made me like Rickie more than I previously did. I've felt pretty down about our coach, with the way the season has gone, the SI article, etc. I really wasn't sure if he was going to be able to take SLU's basketball team to the next level. But now that I know his political views are more aligned with mine, I am once again confident that Rick will turn this program into a powerhouse.

This whole thing is so stupid. I just hope he doesn't say he's against the war. The last thing SLU needs is an unpatriotic coach. That'll ruin our recruiting.

huh? what does political beliefs have to do with winning basketball? i am a reaganite, but i dont for one second have any belief that reagan knew how to win basketball? (maybe inspire notre dame football success ) my disappointment the longer it goes on the more it becomes a distraction and potentially a deterrent to possible recruiting. please rickma let this die.

[SShoe]

I was being sarcastic Roy. Sorry that it didn't come out very well. I think this whole thing is ridiculous and am making fun of the whole issue. I have found it interesting, because it brings out all the radicals, but lets just say the only opinion I care about is Rick's feelings regarding the high-post screen. Just like I didn't care how Jeff Suppan spoke out against Stem Cell research. All I cared about was how he pitched during the 06' series. If these guys were writing policy, I'd care, but they're not. So what's the point?

[Pistol]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. If you're not you might want to meet Billikan at the secret hideout tonight to go over the plan to thwart the conspiracists.

I was being semi-sarcastic. I don't think there's a conspiracy at KMOV- CBS and its affiliates are too boring for that. But at the same time, I think it's valid that the reporter crossed the line in calling Majerus' Catholicism into question just for being at a Clinton rally. The questions that Majerus answered to reveal himself as pro-choice and for stem cell research never would have arisen if the reporter hadn't made that nonsensical connection (Democrat = bad Catholic). A sensible reporter would uphold the fact that in the US, politics are supposed to operate in a separate sphere from religion. People can vote one way or another and still disagree on a lot of issues. He presupposes that Catholics are one-issue voters; some are, most aren't.

And hey, Billikan isn't a fair comparison. I would never come up with a conspiracy that the P-D is anti-Catholic; being anti-Catholic in St. Louis is just plain bad business.

[billiken_roy]

I was being sarcastic Roy. Sorry that it didn't come out very well. I think this whole thing is ridiculous and am making fun of the whole issue. I have found it interesting, because it brings out all the radicals, but lets just say the only opinion I care about is Rick's feelings regarding the high-post screen. Just like I didn't care how Jeff Suppan spoke out against Stem Cell research. All I cared about was how he pitched during the 06' series. If these guys were writing policy, I'd care, but they're not. So what's the point?

sshoe, sorry, i didnt read it that way. for us slower guys, use that smiley face or something.

anyway, i think you are correct......now........however, if he continues to drag this out and decides he is some sort of a part-time political anaylyst or even just a flag carrier for these causes, that is what scrares me. he needs to let it die and not be "recommitting" as he did with bernie last night.

btw, i'd like to get the tip at that bernie/rickma dinner. (see i used the smiley thing to show i was j/k)

[SShoe]

I'll try to use those more (see: I nailed it!)

A part-time political analyst is one thing, but I don't see the issue with him speaking for or endorsing any candidate. So many celebs do and Rick is a celeb in St. Louis. If he wants to be involved and thinks his political opinion has weight, he should have every right to go to rallies and even speak. I guess, he should just be clear that he's speaking for himself and not the SLU community. But that should be obvious. I mean, I don't think the entire cast of Walker Texas Ranger supports Mike Huckabee, just because Chuck Norris does.

[moytoy12]

I really didn't want to get in on this debate but IMO there is a big difference between being pro-choice and being pro-abortion. I know many people, myself included who are pro-choice but would never consider abortion as a viable option for themselves personally. They are just opposed to the government deciding what it right and moral for them. That is the impression I got from RM, not that he was pro-abortion.

I am both opposed to the death penalty and pro-choice and the decision is quite simply because I don't think the government has the right to interfere either way. My personal belief's are pro-life but my political belief's are pro-choice.

That said, a road win this weekend for the Bill's would be nice.

Amen. Regardless of one's point of view on the subject, pro-choice has become synonymous with pro-abortion. It's a clever manipulation by many pro-lifers.

[davidnark]

I agree. I think Majerus should be commended for stating his beliefs and not backing down from a tyrannical moron like Burke. Of course I am a "Dem" like Coach, so I guess many of you will disregard what I say anyway.

I too agree with both Majerus's beliefs and the stance he is taking. IMO, it would be more insulting if Majerus would allow the church or SOB Burke to dictate his beliefs instead of thinking for himself. I commend Majerus for doing so. My kids will likely go to Catholic schools, but they will always be taught to think and form (and stand up for) their own views and beliefs, not to rely upon others to do so for them.

BTW, how hypocritical can Burke be? Is he banning communion for Catholics who publicly support the many, many political candidates who support the death penalty, another high-profile political topic in which the Catholic Church has strong and clear views? Does anyone have any Catholic doctrine they want to cite to explain that hypocrisy?

[provos528]

As of recent news Rickma has declined an interview regarding this fiasco with the Associated Press, so Bernie got the last bit from this issue.

And want to reiterate that some sources said that Biondi or some higher ups gave a "Go" to Rickma on Bernie's interview..

[slufanskip]

Skip, Rickma had the cover of plausible deniability with his first TV interview. Off campus, off hours, off the cuff, no blood, no harm, no foul. He doesn't need to censor anything. He needs to say "I have no further comments in these areas" and be done with it.

The media interview Burke, he scolds the situation, expresses concern, mutters about grave sin, but he is out of town and insulated from much of the tempest. It blows over.

Rickma provides time during work hours to clarify that he is obdurate, does it to a commentary writer who has earned Biondi's personal emnity, indicates he could care less whatever the good Burke could tells him, and it is the front page of the paper(sports section in our edition.) Extends the controversy for multiple days, and now both Biondi AND Burke are in town, where they have to deal with the mess themselves.

While it is great for Rickma to beat his chest and show he is his own man, it is NEVER good to make your boss look bad. It is even worse to make your boss look bad, make his boss look stupid, and due it in public as you thumb your eye at both. If you took all three guys and put them in a room, Rickma would have the smallest ego(and his is quite considerable.)

As it stands, Biondi is going to personally have to go dance on Burke's carpet sooner or later, which means Rickma is filling out his dance card to waltz with Biondi. He has escalated a small tempest into a fight that has been noted all the way to the Vatican. Burke has shuttered parishes, excommunicated devout Catholics, and will willingly deal with a silly basketball coach in like manner if he desires.

The last thing Biondi wants to occur during his final golden years at SLU is to have his star in the heavens visit the wrath of the Archbishop and significant Catholic donors/board members on his head. Rickma is running toward a lose/lose situation for no reason.

You don't get it. He doesn't need the cover or probably care about plausible deniability. He's an American he has the right to express his opinion and tough crap for anyone who doesn't like it. SLU doesn't have a problem with him expressing opinion and even if they did who cares.

It has nothing to do with his ego. Dave your opinion is being clouded by your undeniable dislike or RM.

IF SLU wanted to do something about it they'd be as wrong as Burke is.

Burke should have more important things to spend his time worrying about than what a f...ing basketball coach thinks about abortion. May I suggest cleaning up the coruption and sins of his own first.

[Sheltiedave]

Well, well, we have two posts in a row by lawyers talking about hypocrisy, and yet they are blind to the blatant ones in their own posts.

"..but they will always be taught to think and form (and stand up for) their own views and beliefs, not to rely upon others to do so for them." David, how can you commend Rickma for standing up for his own personal beliefs, yet you condemn Burke for doing exactly the same thing. If you went to Catholic schools, you should have heard about the difference between personal and public apostacy. While both are states of sin, public apostacy requires some action of the bishopric toward reconciliation and resolution.

Likewise, pro-life forces advocate for a constitutional ban of abortions, while pro-choice forces support a constitutional right for abortions. It seems the clever manipulation is actually sought by forces who support the right for abortion services, but don't want the words pro-abortion to define their advocacy.

And BTW, if their are any prominent Catholics who want to challenge Burke re. executions publicly in print and broadcast media, I'm sure he would get around to them as well. He's done a bang up job excommunicating people so far

Skip and Ace, try to get things right. I dislike some of RM's methods, and definitely dislike some of the game results, but I'll be among the happiest if he eventually delivers. At times he can be a jackass, just as Brad was in years and practices past. In the meantime, I'll hold his feet to the fire as rational criticism is warranted. He is driving the largest vehicle we have for positive public relations for the University(the basketball team,) and right now the PR bus is driving all over the freaking road.