Bernie article

[Box and Won]

I think we're going to beat LaSalle on Saturday.

[brianstl]

I think we're going to beat LaSalle on Saturday.

A road win would be nice.

[Billikan]

Boy, you're not paranoid. They really are out to get you. Everybody is against SLU. Everybody is against Catholics. Run for the hills! I'm glad I don't need my local paper to support my catholic beliefs since that's not what they're around for. I'm also glad the head sports columnist doesn't treat his job like he's a PR intern for the teams around town.

I am not interested in any paper supporting anyones religious beliefs but I also do not like the fact that the Post has a one sided bias against the Catholic Church and all Catholics and it can be seen time and again in its so called "reportting". Bernie has repeatedly demonstrated his dislike of SLU and so Majerus just played right into his hands by sitting down with him for 90 minutes so he could write a big negative story--and if Majerus did not undertand he would do that then he is the most naive man in his position on earth. I have to assume that Majerus knew Bernie was going to make it a front page story and endorsed it. That means to me that Majerus wants to get on his soap box and promote his views and tell everyone else who diagrees to stick it.

[MusicCityBilliken]

I think we're going to beat LaSalle on Saturday.

That would be nice.

Lets go get them!

[slufanskip]

I agree. I think Majerus should be commended for stating his beliefs and not backing down from a tyrannical moron like Burke. Of course I am a "Dem" like Coach, so I guess many of you will disregard what I say anyway.

I don't think it matters what your political views are. RM has the right to state his opinion and explain his thoughts when he is criticized for them. I don't think he did anything wrong, regardless of whether his views are in line with mine or those of the Catholic Church. I wonder why there isn't such an uproar when Kurt Warner expresses his views. The problem is most people think it's ok to express one's views as long as they are the same as their's.

[brianstl]

I don't think it matters what your political views are. RM has the right to state his opinion and explain his thoughts when he is criticized for them. I don't think he did anything wrong, regardless of whether his views are in line with mine or those of the Catholic Church. I wonder why there isn't such an uproar when Kurt Warner expresses his views. The problem is most people think it's ok to express one's views as long as they are the same as their's.

The big difference is Kurt Warner doesn't work for a self-described religious institution. When you do and you state something that contradicts church doctrine, you are going to put yourself in a less than desirable position. Rick is not working for a regular business. He is the highest profile employee at a self described Jesuit Catholic institution. His boss is a Catholic priest that ultimately must follow the orders his Vatican bosses or risk getting defrocked. If Majerus keeps this up his job will be on the line. The rules of this country are not the same as the rules for the church. Rick is Catholic and he should know all this.

[Postcard]

You sir, are delusional.

I am not interested in any paper supporting anyones religious beliefs but I also do not like the fact that the Post has a one sided bias against the Catholic Church and all Catholics and it can be seen time and again in its so called "reportting".

Care to explain?

Bernie has repeatedly demonstrated his dislike of SLU and so Majerus just played right into his hands by sitting down with him for 90 minutes so he could write a big negative story--and if Majerus did not undertand he would do that then he is the most naive man in his position on earth. I have to assume that Majerus knew Bernie was going to make it a front page story and endorsed it. That means to me that Majerus wants to get on his soap box and promote his views and tell everyone else who diagrees to stick it.

Dude, Bernie has has harped on the program for the last ten years for being small time and thinking small time despite what Father Biondi said about wanting to be a top 50 program. Now that SLU has got a new building going up and they dedicated more resources to the coach, etc., Bernie has been touting SLU. I think he does enjoy irritating knuckleheads like you who think the Post should be a PR arm of the university. That's not the way it works. Bernie's column was factual. How was it negative? Did he make stuff up to tarnish the university or bball program? Why would the head coach be in bed with SLU's biggest enemy? What color is the sky in your world?

[slufanskip]

You can't compare any business associated with a church to a regular employer. The main goal of a regular employer's business is not to provide its customers a moral framework to live their life by and eternal salvation.

The closest comparison would be someone working for the Democratic Party and that person going out to campaign for the Republican candidate for President. That person would be fire immediately and rightfully so.

There are many who think that almost all organized religion's main goal is to make money in the business of providing a moral framework for people to live their life by. The promise of eternal salvation just makes the profit easier to come by.

SLU is Rick's employer not the Catholic Church, so a comparison certainly can be made.

I don't know the specifics but didn't SLU seperate itself from the church or from being part of the church when they were trying to get public money?

I'm not knocking SLU, just making an observation. I think Biondi handled it perfectly.

Billikan ... we must get different versions of the Post as I didn't read the same thing in my edition as you clearly read in yours.

[Band Legend]

You sir, are delusional.

Care to explain?

Dude, Bernie has has harped on the program for the last ten years for being small time and thinking small time despite what Father Biondi said about wanting to be a top 50 program. Now that SLU has got a new building going up and they dedicated more resources to the coach, etc., Bernie has been touting SLU. I think he does enjoy irritating knuckleheads like you who think the Post should be a PR arm of the university. That's not the way it works. Bernie's column was factual. How was it negative? Did he make stuff up to tarnish the university or bball program? Why would the head coach be in bed with SLU's biggest enemy? What color is the sky in your world?

Billikan, you truly are one of the people who make this board fun to read and post on. That being said, sometimes you are completely freaking nuts. Have you ever thought that maybe everything is not a conspiracy against SLU, or Catholics or Republicans? You are pretty paranoid, you're definitely sanctimonious, and you have enough righteous indignation to fill the new arena. Keep on trucking, man.

[1SLUFAN]

A Jesuit education teaches you to think, question and make your own decisions. Why should Majerus be any different than any other graduate of a Jesuit education? Burke should let this alone and worry about keeping Catholics in the flock instead of running them off. I thought both the Burwell and Bernie articles were well done.

[slufanskip]

The big difference is Kurt Warner doesn't work for a self-described religious institution. When you do and you state something that contradicts church doctrine, you are going to put yourself in a less than desirable position. Rick is not working for a regular business. He is the highest profile employee at a self described Jesuit Catholic institution. His boss is a Catholic priest that ultimately must follow the orders his Vatican bosses or risk getting defrocked. If Majerus keeps this up his job will be on the line. The rules of this country are not the same as the rules for the church. Rick is Catholic and he should know all this.

So do you have to agree with all the teachings of the Catholic Church to work for SLU? Or can you be hired by SLU if you don't as long as you shut up about them? What his position is at SLU is irrelevant, he doesn't teach Catholicism at SLU. Doesn't SLU have some Jewish people rather high in the food chain on their payroll? Are they allowed to express their views?

I'm curious as to whether this is made clear to all employees when they are hired.

[brianstl]

There are many who think that almost all organized religion's main goal is to make money in the business of providing a moral framework for people to live their life by. The promise of eternal salvation just makes the profit easier to come by.

SLU is Rick's employer not the Catholic Church, so a comparison certainly can be made.

I don't know the specifics but didn't SLU seperate itself from the church or from being part of the church when they were trying to get public money?

I'm not knocking SLU, just making an observation. I think Biondi handled it perfectly.

Billikan ... we must get different versions of the Post as I didn't read the same thing in my edition as you clearly read in yours.

Rick works for a self-desribed Jesuit Catholic institution. From the SLU website:

Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,000 students on campuses in St. Louis and Madrid, Spain. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Through teaching, research, health care and community service, Saint Louis University is the place where knowledge touches lives.

The St. Louis campus has been the site of the central administration since 1888, when the Jesuits moved the University from its original downtown campus. Several colleges and schools make up the University campus as well as the Medical Center.

The Madrid campus was established in 1969. The first freestanding campus operated by an American University in Europe, this campus is recognized by Spain's higher education authority as an official foreign university, the first U.S. institution to hold this endorsement.

His boss is a Jesuit priest that must answer to the big bosses at the Vatican (Adolfo Nicolas and the Pope). If he doesn't, he runs the risk of being defrocked.

I don't want Rick to get fired. I want Rick as the coach here. I just know, that if Rick keeps this up, Biondi's hand will eventually be forced. It is that simple.

[brianstl]

So do you have to agree with all the teachings of the Catholic Church to work for SLU? Or can you be hired by SLU if you don't as long as you shut up about them? What his position is at SLU is irrelevant, he doesn't teach Catholicism at SLU. Doesn't SLU have some Jewish people rather high in the food chain on their payroll? Are they allowed to express their views?

I'm curious as to whether this is made clear to all employees when they are hired.

Those employees are not directly contradicting church doctrine in the media. Anyone who is employed by SLU would run a very high risk contradicting church doctrine in the media. The thing is Majerus is using the platform provided to him by being the basketball coach at SLU to directly contradict church doctrine. It is not just church doctrine he is contradicting; he is contradicting doctrine on issues of the highest priority to the church.

[slufanskip]

Rick works for a self-desribed Jesuit Catholic institution. From the SLU website:

His boss is a Jesuit priest that must answer to the big bosses at the Vatican (Adolfo Nicolas and the Pope). If he doesn't, he runs the risk of being defrocked.

I don't want Rick to get fired. I want Rick as the coach here. I just know, that if Rick keeps this up, Biondi's hand will eventually be forced. It is that simple.

So they are a Catholic institution if an employee openly disagrees with their teachings but not so much when they need public money?

I'm not sure why this is a big deal SLU's position on the matter is RM has the right to state his opinion.

Rick didn't keep anything up Burke made it an issue and he explained his statements and his position on the issues.

If Burke thinks SLU employees must all beleive all the teachings of the Catholic Church maybe the Church should step up with any money SLU needs.

Again SLU didn't have a problem ....

[saluki762]

I happen to oppose abortion but I understand there are other points of view. However, I question his bringing up his oppostion to the death penalty, which I also oppose, when he is pro abortion. I have never understood how anyone can take the posiiton that it is not ok for society to have the death penalty for horrific crimes yet is it fine to kill unborn children.

The bottom line is that he was hired to be a basketball coach, not a political statesman on a soap box for his opinions on moral issues facing the church. I lost a lot of respect for him when I saw he sat down with Bernie for 90 minutes and fanned the flames to the point that it was a front page article. The Post is anti-Catholic in all of its leanings and publications and Bernie used Majerus to advance that agenda.

I really didn't want to get in on this debate but IMO there is a big difference between being pro-choice and being pro-abortion. I know many people, myself included who are pro-choice but would never consider abortion as a viable option for themselves personally. They are just opposed to the government deciding what it right and moral for them. That is the impression I got from RM, not that he was pro-abortion.

I am both opposed to the death penalty and pro-choice and the decision is quite simply because I don't think the government has the right to interfere either way. My personal belief's are pro-life but my political belief's are pro-choice.

That said, a road win this weekend for the Bill's would be nice.

[slufanskip]

Those employees are not directly contradicting church doctrine in the media. Anyone who is employed by SLU would run a very high risk contradicting church doctrine in the media. The thing is Majerus is using the platform provided to him by being the basketball coach at SLU to directly contradict church doctrine. It is not just church doctrine he is contradicting; he is contradicting doctrine on issues of the highest priority to the church.

RM didn't use his platform as the SLU basketball coach for anything. He was at a political function completely unrelated to SLU and was asked a question and he answered the question honestly.

What should the Jewish employees of SLU say if asked a question regarding any issue they disagree with the Catholic religion on. Are they allowed to state their beliefs or do they have to shut up? Isn't there a high ranking SLU employee that is Jewish?

[cheeseman]

I don't think it matters what your political views are. RM has the right to state his opinion and explain his thoughts when he is criticized for them. I don't think he did anything wrong, regardless of whether his views are in line with mine or those of the Catholic Church. I wonder why there isn't such an uproar when Kurt Warner expresses his views. The problem is most people think it's ok to express one's views as long as they are the same as their's.

Skip, excellent point!!

[cheeseman]

I really didn't want to get in on this debate but IMO there is a big difference between being pro-choice and being pro-abortion. I know many people, myself included who are pro-choice but would never consider abortion as a viable option for themselves personally. They are just opposed to the government deciding what it right and moral for them. That is the impression I got from RM, not that he was pro-abortion.

I am both opposed to the death penalty and pro-choice and the decision is quite simply because I don't think the government has the right to interfere either way. My personal belief's are pro-life but my political belief's are pro-choice.

That said, a road win this weekend for the Bill's would be nice.

Saluki - you made a very cogent point - thanks for pointing that issue out.

[brianstl]

So they are a Catholic institution if an employee openly disagrees with their teachings but not so much when they need public money?

I'm not sure why this is a big deal SLU's position on the matter is RM has the right to state his opinion.

Rick didn't keep anything up Burke made it an issue and he explained his statements and his position on the issues.

If Burke thinks SLU employees must all beleive all the teachings of the Catholic Church maybe the Church should step up with any money SLU needs.

Again SLU didn't have a problem ....

Skip, I thought this was all getting blown out of proportion earlier. I thought the Jesuits might even find it amusing that Majerus upset Burke. I stated so in an earlier post. It was the BM article and the BM blog posting link that has got me worried. I think Rick is going to dig himself into a bigger hole if he keeps talking about. He just needs to say no comment.

[slufanskip]

Skip, I thought this was all getting blown out of proportion earlier. I thought the Jesuits might even find it amusing that Majerus upset Burke. I stated so in an earlier post. It was the BM article and the BM blog posting link that has got me worried. I think Rick is going to dig himself into a bigger hole if he keeps talking about. He just needs to say no comment.

I disagree. The head basketball coach at SLU should not be a job where a requirement is that you are censored if your views are not in agreement with the Catholic Church.

[Pistol]

Those employees are not directly contradicting church doctrine in the media. Anyone who is employed by SLU would run a very high risk contradicting church doctrine in the media. The thing is Majerus is using the platform provided to him by being the basketball coach at SLU to directly contradict church doctrine. It is not just church doctrine he is contradicting; he is contradicting doctrine on issues of the highest priority to the church.

SLU doesn't care. He wasn't acting on behalf of the University. If the school didn't allow its staff to have different viewpoints, it would be a lonely little island. If it really wants to be a top-ranked school, it can't make itself 'Catholic-only' and has to demonstrate that it allows people of all walks of life to learn and work there. Even if it's rooted in Jesuit tradition, I think it was Skip who said before that the Jesuit way of teaching encourages you to make your own decisions and think about things from all angles, not to allow your views to be dictated by someone else's dogma (oh yeah, Rick said that too).

The school has already said that Rick's not in trouble and as long as he isn't pretending that the school sent him there, SLU respects his freedom of speech.

Why do you keep hammering Church doctrine? That is by no means SLU's only mission. It doesn't matter if faculty or students share those beliefs or not. I had multiple theology professors with relatively liberal standpoints on social issues, and would have been much closer to Rick's side than the archbishop's. It sounds like you would rather have the school turn into some reactionary theocratic institution like Liberty or Oral Roberts in the evangelical world, but Catholic. Schools like that don't garner much respect outside of their bubbles (without even taking into account the widespread accounting fraud going on there). SLU has to not only allow, but welcome all viewpoints in order to stay academically (and athletically) competitive.

[cheeseman]

For those of you who are convinced that the Post is "anti Catholic" I only need to point you to one of their regular guest columnist - Colleen Carroll Campbell. She is a regular contributor usually on Thursdays in the Editorial Section. She is very pro Catholic and writes almost exclusively on topics that are supported by the Catholic Church. Read her defense of the Pope in today's column. If the Post was so anti Catholic then why would they have her as a guest columnist? - because they do report on both sides of all issues. Now I agree that generally speaking they tend to be more liberal then conservative as to their overall editorial point of view but that is not any different than any other paper - some are more conservative also.

To say that BM is an avowed anti Catholic and anti SLU person - well that is just silly. He has a opinion that some don't like about how things have been handled at SLU in the Athletic Department - that is all.

[brianstl]

RM didn't use his platform as the SLU basketball coach for anything. He was at a political function completely unrelated to SLU and was asked a question and he answered the question honestly.

What should the Jewish employees of SLU say if asked a question regarding any issue they disagree with the Catholic religion on. Are they allowed to state their beliefs or do they have to shut up? Isn't there a high ranking SLU employee that is Jewish?

No local news report would have aired Rick's comment from the rally if he wasn't the coach at SLU. Bernie wouldn't have had a front page article with him if he wasn't the coach as SLU. Being the head coach at SLU is the reason these things have happened.

THe correct response for the employees would be no comment.

[slufanskip]

No local news report would have aired Rick's comment from the rally if he wasn't the coach at SLU. Bernie wouldn't have had a front page article with him if he wasn't the coach as SLU. Being the head coach at SLU is the reason these things have happened.

THe correct response for the employees would be no comment.

So since he is the head basketball coach at SLU he must censor himself when his opinion differs from that of the Catholic Church. That is exactly what your saying ... do you realize how ridiculous that is?

[Pistol]

I disagree. The head basketball coach at SLU should not be a job where a requirement is that you are censored if your views are not in agreement with the Catholic Church.

Good points, Skip.

Also, no one has mentioned this yet, but another A10 coach up in Philly has a radio show (I think he still has it, but at least had it for years)- Phil Martelli. He is a wear-it-on-his-sleeve liberal in pretty much every single issue that could be debated in politics. His show is nearly as much a political talk show as it is basketball, and last I heard it had a pretty good following. There's another coach at a Catholic school who has some viewpoints that might not fit into the Church's doctrine. No one seemed to raise any eyebrows about it, either.

Which brings me to a key point: why did the KMOV reporter insist on linking Majerus' support of Clinton to being negative to his Catholic faith? Are there not political issues on both sides of the fence that go against Catholic teaching? Does the Church support the death penalty and war (as Republicans do)? It just seems fishy to me, and someone had an agenda. KMOV and its goofy moustachioed reporter are at fault here, not Majerus, not Archbishop Burke (until he goes off the deep end and cries out for discipline and denial of Communion).