SI Article, re: impact on recruiting

[moytoy12]

any chance a stories like this actually help by weeding out the kids who have transferred during their time with Rick? B

[Taj79]

I had a coach in pee wee football --- well, not that pee wee, seventh and eighth grade --- that spent maybe a season or two with the Boston Patriots (yep, that long ago). He was a former lineman and was not ashamed to get down in a three point stance and blast our offensive or defensive linemen, sans pads for himself, to make a point. When you're twelve or thirteen, guys like this look like godzilla. I always thought it was part of the game and learning process. I don't know what to think of it now in today's lives of political correctness.

Practice should be closed. I agree with that. Things get said or done in the heat of the moment that will escalate given someone uninformed deciding that's not right and riding to the "rescue." Playing for anyone today requires you to know the score, inside and out. With all this stuff out there, if you're not willing to compromise and put up with it, go elsewhere. You have another 300+ options. Its like folks today that buy a house in a poor school district, near an off ramp to an interstate, or with a back yard ending at a former landfill. What? You didn't think to check?

Every kid that enters a collegeiate basketball program does so with the thought, no inherent belief,m that they are the next Jordan or Erving or whomever. The land of riches is right beyond this momentary and requisite stopover in life. Kind of like some of these fools that try out for "American Idol." If using Rick and his resume gets you to the top, you take it. I think I would. But I'd enter that arrangement with eyes wide open.

[huzzah]

no i played basketball, baseball and ran cross country. thankfully, no coach, teacher, parent, or mentor of mine ever treated me like that for an extended period of time and i have nothing but the greatest respect and fond memories of my formative years and the success i and any team i was on achieved. as i have detested knight for years for his "methods" it only saddens me that our coach was/is similar in his methods. like i said, hopefully we will bring in kids that "want" that kind of treatment, and the net effect for us fans is winning basketball. to each their own. some people i guess need that i think there are plenty of success stories of positive motivation as well. i know if i had to pick my circle of friends i'd rather be around the people that are about being positive.

Roy I think you may be drawing too close a comparison between RM and Knight. In the games I have seen RM does not berate his players during the game as Knight does or as Rich Grawer did. RM has not thrown chairs. In the game against Dayton RM protested some calls, but kept within acceptable emotional bounds. In practice, poking a player in the chest is not the same as hitting a player, as Knight has been accused of. The SI article shows a different RM than we see during the game, so it may come as a shock, but it still seems different than Knight. Nudity in the locker room comes with the territory, so I doubt that is a big deal. Winning and successful coaches have to be different as they win at the expense of other coaches.

[3star_recruit]

Of course based upon past performance with RM, we know already that 2 of the 5 recruits for next year will not graduate from SLU.

Do you think any coaches recruiting against RM will bring up the fact that the chances are only 60-40 that your son will graduate from SL if he signs with RM?

Out of the 80 players he brought in at Utah, only 33 made it to their senior year. So actually it's more like 40-60.

[slu72]

i agree completely. this article probably sheds more light on why we have so many questions on the happenings and questions on this season than anything. you take kids recruited to play in the ultra sunshine world of soderberg who was a walking ray of what's positive in life to all at once being shipped to a marine boot camp, i cant even imagine the culture shock our team went through. not necessarily a bad thing. but no doubt a shock none the less. and it indeed illustrates the need to flip the mantra of the players asap if we want to see consistent success. never have i seen the need for the team to be "rickma's kids" than now.

SLU can be compared to a dysfunctional family right now. Mom and Mr. Nice guy dad get divorced. Mom marries Drill instructor dad and kids go nuts. Their whole world turned upside down. The guys on this year's team thought UB was instructing/coaching them at a top D1 level. It's all they knew. Now, a guy who really knows what it takes shows up. He's a stern, profane, off the wall, maybe even obnoxious, taskmaster. It ain't hard to understand why this year's been so up and down. And downright weird. Still, I'll take RM. The good outweighs the bad. Like someone above said, it can't be an easy freshman year at the military academies either, but you've got to seperate the wheat from the chaff sometime.

[billiken_roy]

Now, a guy who really knows what it takes shows up. He's a stern, profane, off the wall, maybe even obnoxious, taskmaster. It ain't hard to understand why this year's been so up and down. And downright weird. Still, I'll take RM. The good outweighs the bad. Like someone above said, it can't be an easy freshman year at the military academies either, but you've got to seperate the wheat from the chaff sometime.

i take issue with "who knows what it takes". did john wooden coach like that? does pitino? did smith? does pat riley? does chuck daily? does roy williams? there are plenty of success stories that dont resort to mainly negative reinforcement.

hey it works for him. great. in the long run we all will benefit from a winning experience on the court. eventually he will find the players that enjoy that and we will win. but to insinuate that our current kids are somehow character challenged with "we've got to separate the wheat from the chaff" is insulting and wrong as well. slu's track record of successful student athletes after their career is over speaks for itself.

[3star_recruit]

Hes also helped Bogut become the national player of the year and dominate college basketball. What has he done in the NBA? He sure isnt setting the world on fire there. I guess playing for Majerus was the worst thing for him.

Wow, Majerus gets credit for Bogut blossoming into a dominant player the season AFTER his resignation? Unbelievable.

[Westy03]

Wow, Majerus gets credit for Bogut blossoming into a dominant player the season AFTER his resignation? Unbelievable.

My mistake didnt realize that he left before his senior year. I will still stand by the point that Majerus helped Bogut achieve that status.

[3star_recruit]

like i said, hopefully we will bring in kids that "want" that kind of treatment, and the net effect for us fans is winning basketball.

So the question is, do Tyler Griffey or Bryant Allen want this kind of treatment?

I will still stand by the point that Majerus helped Bogut achieve that status.

Of course you will.

[slu72]

i take issue with "who knows what it takes". did john wooden coach like that? does pitino? did smith? does pat riley? does chuck daily? does roy williams? there are plenty of success stories that dont resort to mainly negative reinforcement.

hey it works for him. great. in the long run we all will benefit from a winning experience on the court. eventually he will find the players that enjoy that and we will win. but to insinuate that our current kids are somehow character challenged with "we've got to separate the wheat from the chaff" is insulting and wrong as well. slu's track record of successful student athletes after their career is over speaks for itself.

I have no idea what methods Wooden used on kids. Or Pitino. One thing though, they did have the luxury of coaching premiere talent. As for the NBA, that's a whole different game than college. Although, a guy like Parcells was no day at the beach. But the players bought into it because they wanted to win. Rickma never really had that at Utah, so he had to do somethings differently. As for the wheat from the chaff comment, wasn't meant as a slam. It was simply either you're cut out to play under these rules or you're not. Doesn't have anything to do with determining someone's future success in other fields.

[Slumn1]

"hey it works for him. great. in the long run we all will benefit from a winning experience on the court. eventually he will find the players that enjoy that and we will win. but to insinuate that our current kids are somehow character challenged with "we've got to separate the wheat from the chaff" is insulting and wrong as well. slu's track record of successful student athletes after their career is over speaks for itself."

If I were a betting man, I would bet that the University is embarressed and either involved in a lawsuit or on probation from RM's actions before "we all benefit from a winning experience on the court."

[Westy03]

So the question is, do Tyler Griffey or Bryant Allen want this kind of treatment?

Of course you will.

I forgot all those recruits were lining up to play for that hell of a guy soderberg...

[Billikan]

So the question is, do Tyler Griffey or Bryant Allen want this kind of treatment?

Of course you will.

I am curious. Last year and the year before you and I had some debates about Brad and you basically said that Brad had to go and that no good local player should play for him. That made me angry because I liked Brad but I understood that he was having trouble recruiting even though we won some good games against good teams. So the administration pulls the trigger and fires Brad and brings in a big time coach. But now only a few games into his tenure as the Bills coach you now are pulling the same stuff and criticizing the coach and talking negative about local recruits. My view is that his is very unfair to Majerus. He is who he is and if you read his book he is honest about his strengths and his weaknesses. No human being is perfect. I have been told that Mike K at Duke is one of the most profane coaches that anyone has ever seen in practice. Majerus is our coach. We need to give him a chance.

[billiken_roy]

I forgot all those recruits were lining up to play for that hell of a guy soderberg...

i didnt realize it was an "either soderberg or majerus" choice.

why does the debate have to go back to what was? probably 999 out of 1000 of us agree majerus is an upgrade over soderberg. now move on to discussing the here and now.

[Westy03]

i didnt realize it was an "either soderberg or majerus" choice.

why does the debate have to go back to what was? probably 999 out of 1000 of us agree majerus is an upgrade over soderberg. now move on to discussing the here and now.

It was an easy comparision to the nice guy approach. I agree we dont need to talk about brad anymore. Majerus is our coach and he will lead us to where we all want to go. Will it all be rainbows and ice cream? no, but what college program is?

[3star_recruit]

I am curious. Last year and the year before you and I had some debates about Brad and you basically said that Brad had to go and that no good local player should play for him.

Nope and nope.

Saying that players who thrive in an uptempo system would do better elsewhere is not the same as saying no good local player should play for him. Busting Brad's balls for promising to play uptempo two seasons in a row and then chickening out a couple games in is not the same as saying Brad should go.

I don't even think RM should go. I just think the guy is setting himself up for failure here. You can't be a total assclown with very little media scrutiny like you can in Salt Lake City or Muncie.

What I'd advocated vociferously in both men's cases is to adjust their coaching to their personnel. What Tubby's doing at Minnesota is a great example.

[ACE]

So the question is, do Tyler Griffey or Bryant Allen want this kind of treatment?

We'll see. If they want to play in their home town in a spectacular new facility for a coach who has helped put a lot of players into the pros and led a number of teams into the NCAA Tourney, then the answer is yes.

[billiken_roy]

We'll see. If they want to play in their home town in a spectacular new facility for a coach who has helped put a lot of players into the pros and led a number of teams into the NCAA Tourney, then the answer is yes.

ace, other than the "hometown" aspect, there are plenty of better programs and coaches that can give the same. and maybe not as much with allen, but griffey will get those offers. it will be interesting to see if the hometown draw is a difference maker. i hope so.

it is my read that this si article is very damaging recruitingwise. however i also believe that a coach of majerus magnitude has the juice to still rise up and be effective recruiting in spite of it. no doubt a lesser coach like say a soderberg or a porter moser as head coach would not have that ability.

[ACE]

ace, other than the "hometown" aspect, there are plenty of better programs and coaches that can give the same. and maybe not as much with allen, but griffey will get those offers. it will be interesting to see if the hometown draw is a difference maker. i hope so.

it is my read that this si article is very damaging recruitingwise. however i also believe that a coach of majerus magnitude has the juice to still rise up and be effective recruiting in spite of it. no doubt a lesser coach like say a soderberg or a porter moser as head coach would not have that ability.

Roy, relax. There really is nothing new in that article and I saw a lot of positives in there. Getting in SI is great. First of all, the fact that Majerus is our coach shows that the school is serious about winning. It mentions the new arena and some other things that bball fans outside of the area may not be aware of about our program. The comments about how he feels about Luke, for example, were very positive. RM is obviously a complex guy, but many of his former players say they were much better off for having gone through the experience.

Majerus may not be for everybody, but he will attract kids who live and breathe basketball and have a great commitment... is that such a bad thing? I'd love to have a team full of guys like that. His presence has already paid big dividends. We may have gotten a kid like Thompson anyway, but he also may have wiggled off the line if Majerus weren't here. As soon as RM came on board, it was a done deal. And even more importantly, kids like Mitchell and Conklin, from outside the area, only gave SLU a look because of Majerus. The presence of RM will provide a HUGE recruiting upgrade over the previous coach.

[slu72]

ace, other than the "hometown" aspect, there are plenty of better programs and coaches that can give the same. and maybe not as much with allen, but griffey will get those offers. it will be interesting to see if the hometown draw is a difference maker. i hope so.

it is my read that this si article is very damaging recruitingwise. however i also believe that a coach of majerus magnitude has the juice to still rise up and be effective recruiting in spite of it. no doubt a lesser coach like say a soderberg or a porter moser as head coach would not have that ability.

I think this article will be used against us as well. There are just going to be some parents that say, "no way, no how is my son gonna' be exposed (no pun intended) to that man." That said, there will be others his style and track record will appeal to. Especially those kids and parents who think a shot at the NBA is a realistic goal, but not quite a done deal ala OJ Mayo, Gordon, and Beasely. The quotes from Andre Miller, Doleac, and Van Horn are gonna' help. I would imagine any recruit Booby Knight is after faces the same dilemma. By the way can recruits talk to a coach's former players who are in the NBA. I would imagine so, as UNC regularly has former players returning to Chapel Hill just to practice. If so, RM ought to call on a few of his old players to help close the deal.

[Sheltiedave]

The scary thing is, by his own definition, Rickma recruited 80 of "his" players. Only 33 graduated. What kind of scholarship hole will that dig for us under the new NCAA regulations? Won't we start losing scholarships if we generate a 41% graduation rate? Sooner or later, the churning is going to create holes in our roster similar to this year, and it will probably coincide with Rickma's departure. I just want to go through this new era with our eyes open, so we don't get caught wearing the emperor's new clothes.

[MusicCityBilliken]

When did SLU ever do well with recruiting? Spoon, except for the Hughes class, depended on JUCOs. Some very good, like Love and Jeffers, but it is 2 and done with them. Romer (with his teases) I believe finally was seeing some headway with the Hollins recruit, but he abruptly left and Hollins never came. Brad, no need to address that.

It can't get much worse. RM, with this class, brought in the best in a very long time. I didn't think the article was that bad and had a lot of positives. Showed a coach that has a lot of passion. That kind of passion appeals to a lot of players. I also think RM has mellowed somewhat from his days at Utah. When his Utah teams went sweet 16 and elite 8, you can afford to run players off. 30 might have left but he had 60 waiting at the door. Don't be surprised only one or two get run-off. My guess it will be just Maguire. SLU will not be in that 'Utah Situation' for awhile. Don't get me wrong, I think we will be very good team with the team getting into NCAA but advancing that far, that maybe several years down the road.

[brianstl]

First, the number of players not finishing at Utah is skewed some by the number of Mormon player he had. Second, Majerus was not the only hard adjustment for the non-Mormon kids. Those kids have to adjust to living in Utah. Utah is a beuatiful state, but it is a big time adjustment culture wise from any other place in the country. It is real culture shock.

Majerus will go through players here, but I don't think the numbers will be as high. That said, it will be higher than any Billiken fan is use to.

[TheA_Bomb]

This article gets to a much deeper issue of the de-masculinization of American men. Take a look at European dudes, that is the future if we keep going down the road we're on. We'll all be wearing Capri pants drinking from glasses with umbrellas in them while jamming to Natalie Imbruglia on our IPOD. Not me, sorry can't do it. I'll send my kid to Majerus any day of the week. Stop being a bunch of p*ss%@s! should be a politial platform.

18 years old is young but you know what? An 18 year old is a man. I know some 18 year olds that were yelled at in much tougher situations than a basketball gym and they were ok in the end because they are still alive today. Athletes aren't soldiers like Kellen Winslow would claim but sometimes emphasis is needed to make a point. We all have different ways to make our points. Some of us revert to more primitive means some have quiet strength. Different strokes for different folks. If you don't like it don't come to SLU and play for Majerus. If you can, man up, work hard, and we will want you here.

He shouldn't do it in a living room because that is not the time or place. On a practice court in relative privacy is a different place. Comparisons to Knight are off-base. Knight crossed some lines by violently attacking players, disrespecting the game, throwing chairs, extreme tantrums etc. Majerus has not done that. The other night at the Dayton game Moser and Biancardi were going crazy about some obscure substittion rule that Dayton violated and the refs let slide. Majerus calmly told them, "I am trying to win a ball game here I can't fight that battle right now." That is reserve and control when it counts. You create havoc and pressure in practice in order to be better under the stresses of an actual game.

The World is a tough place. Those of you that don't like it go ahead and put your capri pants on lay-a-way and buy some male face moisturizer while you're at it. The other men and I will try to keep it from interrupting your next trip to the dayspa for a mani.

[Sheltiedave]

A Bomb, I was in the Navy for six years and have been depth charged on a submarine for two days straight. Younger bro is over in Iraq now, two youngest bros went thru West Point. It is a futile point to tell us to sac up when we already got'em.

I got at after six years of Uncle Sam's canoe club because the administration on our boat was horrendous - the nuclear guys back aft had a 0% retention rate. All kinds of people will put up with being yelled at if there is a basis for the behaviour. When there isn't, people vote with their feet.

The boomer squadron in the sub pen next to our pier had a 100% retention rate for nukes. They had two crews, and split sea time 50/50.

As far as an earlier poster's comment that Rickma lost players to Mormon missions, bump the 14 year rate up to 39 out of 72 players leaving to account for two classes going on the two year mission. That number is so bad they had to add another rail line out of Ogden. When over half your players desert you, you are failing if your mission is to educate student athletes.