SI Article, re: impact on recruiting

[slu72]

Just interested to see what you all think this article's impact will be on recruiting. For example, will an opposing coach use it against us.

Scene- recruits living room. Recruit, parents, and opposing coach.

Recruit: I really like Coach Majerus. I think he's my best option to make the next level.

OC: Well, we've had our share of players make the NBA as well. By the way, Mr. and Mrs. Recruit did you see the article in SI on RM's coaching's methods?

RP's: No...

OC: I think it's worth a read. Here's a copy. Keep it, I have plenty.

Recruit's mom (after a casual scan): Oh, my, he really did that?

OC: He didn't sue 'em for liable.

There is some damming and pretty odd stuff in this article that might cause parents serious concern about their son's going to SLU. And as we all know, recruiters will resort to anything to land talent.

[Slumn1]

So does anyone else find it ironic that RM who supposedly embraces the Jesuit institution and the Catholic faith, can be such a vulgar selfish ba$tard and not see anything wrong with his actions?

Is this another case of the little man who couldn't make it as a player, getting a chance to coach, and being the horses a$$ to all of the players to help him overcome his feeling of inadequacy?

[jimbofive]

So does anyone else find it ironic that RM who supposedly embraces the Jesuit institution and the Catholic faith, can be such a vulgar selfish ba$tard and not see anything wrong with his actions?

Is this another case of the little man who couldn't make it as a player, getting a chance to coach, and being the horses a$$ to all of the players to help him overcome his feeling of inadequacy?

Yes. And he's open about that.

At the door any potential recruits and recruits' parents should know that. It's then just a matter of whether or not they can deal with that.

Sure, we might lose out on a few Johnny Condoms 'n Cornflakes types, but those that just want to learn the game and play as hard as they can aren't going to be deterred by some locker room behaviour. It's the 30 points losses that concern me, but I think Majerus' first recruiting class is going to help more than we know in that area.

[Slumn1]

Of course based upon past performance with RM, we know already that 2 of the 5 recruits for next year will not graduate from SLU.

Do you think any coaches recruiting against RM will bring up the fact that the chances are only 60-40 that your son will graduate from SL if he signs with RM?

[davidnark]

can be such a vulgar selfish ba$tard and not see anything wrong with his actions?

From the article:

Majerus admits he can go too far. He regretted making Van Horn cry, so he took him out for bagels the day after and explained, "You're living my dream. I'm hard on you because you're special, because I never was any good myself." Van Horn later made Majerus his daughter's godfather.

The six-inch display? Majerus says he's not the same coach he was a decade ago. "I'm probably a little embarrassed about some things I've said or done in practice," he says.

[Slumn1]

It's too bad you can't get into practice, you would see that the stuff he does today is no better than the 2 "incidents" he was sorry for.

[STL Hoops Insider]

He's recruited just fine so far. Do you really think you can make the jump from an afterthought program to top 50 status without taking the good with the bad?

[davidnark]

It is gonig to cut both ways. Majerus is a complicated man with a lot of good and a lot of bad. Some recruits may be absolutely turned off by the article. Other recruits may be drawn to Majerus based upon statements such as:

Majerus is by far the best coach I've ever played for," says Doleac, a Minnesota Timberwolves center who has played for NBA legends Chuck Daly and Pat Riley. "He's got an unbelievable ability to see the game; he can watch a play and know what all 10 guys are doing and what each did wrong. You wouldn't believe it, but then you'd watch the film and he was right every time. He has this presence, and he backs it up because his energy is the same every day.

Van Horn later made Majerus his daughter's godfather.

But nothing about Majerus is as simple as it seems. Just ask Burgess, who transferred from Duke to play for Majerus in 1999, whether he made the right move. "Absolutely," he says. "I loved it."

In 15 seasons at Utah, from 1989 to 2004, Majerus won 10 conference titles, coached his teams to two Sweet 16 finishes, one Elite Eight and an NCAA tournament final. His Utes won 30 games twice. Four of his players were named academic All-Americas, and eight went on to play in the NBA. "He's the total package," Miller says, "and I'm grateful for it."

Many of Majerus's former players at Utah consider him a rare and good man: center Michael Doleac, whose 10-year NBA career is due almost entirely to Majerus; Andre Miller, the Prop 48 project who graduated on time with a sociology degree and now stars for the Philadelphia 76ers; Keith Van Horn, whom Majerus counseled all night after breaking the news that the player's father had died; forward Hanno Mottola, who says that in his eight years of pro ball he has never worked as hard, played as well or felt the game as deeply as he did under Majerus.

[billiken_roy]

so david, just curious, did you show the article to your wife and ask if she would want your son to play for him? would you want your son to play for him?

[Westy03]

so david, just curious, did you show the article to your wife and ask if she would want your son to play for him? would you want your son to play for him?

I dont have any kids but I would send my kid to play for him.

[Box and Won]

Really though, this article doesn't present much that wasn't already out in the open. In many ways, it's a rehash of a few other articles that have been posted here since Majerus was hired. This stuff was all well known when Thompson, Mitchell, Reed, Conklin and John were being recruited and subsequently signed their LOIs.

To me, one of the most interesting parts of the article is Hanno Mottola's transformation - going from "This is beyond what I can handle" to a guy who "in his eight years of pro ball he has never worked as hard, played as well or felt the game as deeply as he did under Majerus."

MacTavish sounds like a *****. Something tells me that a lot of his personality "quirks" are things that many of us would handle with a grain of salt, but seem much worse to players who've had strict Mormon upbringings and hence get overblown. Is calling someone a "c---" really that big of a deal? I had a football coach in high school who called us hermaphrodytes and other assorted colorful names. Big freaking deal.

[Sheltiedave]

SLUmn1, being a jackass comes naturally to some people. Rickma didn't stay married long, and never has had his edges smoothed down. It is a case of he is who he is, and he will never change.

Many coaches will attempt to use it against us in recruiting, as they have going against Rickma for the last twenty years. He has been successful despite the massive amount of negative fodder available to be used against Utah. He actually does care about the kids, but he lacks the discipline to manage his own behaviours while running rampant in controlling others. It happens to be one of his greatest attributes as a coach, and one of his greatest flaws as a person.

As far as helicopter parents and parents who coddle their kid(s), it is another strawman argument presented by some in trying to demean those with whom they disagree. All kids have not had the same level of opportunities in their life, and will not have the same chances after they leave SLU. Most of our players come from families with fairly to very successful and stable households, while to some the four years at SLU may represent their greatest chance in their lives to make something good happen.

The majority of fans who worship Rickma's record and the fact we actually have a great national coach at SLU are also(for the most part) going to decline to notice the warts. The staff will be undergoing a tremendously higher level of scrutiny in St. Louis than was ever visited in Utah.

[Box and Won]

Johnny Condoms 'n Cornflakes types

I don't know what this means, but I find it hilarious.

[Billiken Rich]

so david, just curious, did you show the article to your wife and ask if she would want your son to play for him? would you want your son to play for him?

Are you serious? Do the words hell yes mean anything to you? If my boys wanted to join the military, I'd be tickled to see them at West Point or Annapolis. I seriously doubt Rick could top those "teachers" in brutality.

PS the choice between Rick and a coach like Brad should be pretty easy for a talented kid........

[SShoe]

so david, just curious, did you show the article to your wife and ask if she would want your son to play for him? would you want your son to play for him?

People have been asking this question for years in regards to Bobby Knight (who I consider harder on players than Majerus), yet last night he just became the first coach with 900 victories.

I think some parents want their children in a disciplined environment and will gladly send their kids to Majerus, Knight, etc. While there will be plenty of people who don't accept this style of coaching (I for one am one of those people), others value it.

[billiken_roy]

personally i think there are other ways to motivate players than pulling your d!ck out to illustrate how close to guard your man, calling your players a c*nt when they get beat, verbally abusing the deaf player on the team, punching your forward in the chest when he doesnt block out, etc. the entire article sounded like a marine bootcamp. personally if coach rickma is still presenting his mantra as such, he is a trainwreck waiting to happen. as sheltie said, this sounds a lot like boobie knight.

while no one can argue about the great accomplishments of either coach, it has long been my contention of knight that sadly he will ultimately be remembered more for the antics than for the x's and o's genius and that is sad. hopefully that wont be the case for rickma as a billiken mentor.

i think if you ask my kids, they will tell you i never sheltered or coddled them, but i wouldnt have my kids play for a knight or a majerus if that still is his methodology. i guess i am more about positive motivation than a kick in the a$$. not that an occasional kick isnt warranted. but that should be the exception not the rule. i took it that it is the other way around.

sure you will find good players that loved that. but then you also hear from andrew bogut's that hated his guts and tells everyone they get a chance to tell how much they hated him. same with ex knight players. i guess the key is rickma finding the personalities that will thrive in that environment.

last thought, i am not glad that practice is closed. and it obvious now why it is closed.

[davidnark]

so david, just curious, did you show the article to your wife and ask if she would want your son to play for him? would you want your son to play for him?

I don't think my wife would prevent my kids for playing for a coach because he refers to his players in deragatory terms in practice. (She will probably read the article, so I will ask her.) Do I think that it is necessary or even appropriate? No, but it is part of the bad that goes with the good. I hope that by the time my boys are in their late teens or early 20's they are confident and secure enough to deal with that kind of thing.

[brianstl]

last thought, i am not glad that practice is closed. and it obvious now why it is closed.

Roy, it is closed to the public in general, but it is not closed all the time completely. Rick is not trying to hide who he is. If he was we wouldn't have all these reporters writing articles about what they witnessed at practice. We wouldn't have Griffster posting about attending a practice. Practice is closed to limit distractions. Majerus thinks everything that is not happening on the practice floor is a distraction. He is not trying to hide who he is and that is not why practice is closed.

[Westy03]

personally i think there are other ways to motivate players than pulling your d!ck out to illustrate how close to guard your man, calling your players a c*nt when they get beat, verbally abusing the deaf player on the team, punching your forward in the chest when he doesnt block out, etc. the entire article sounded like a marine bootcamp. personally if coach rickma is still presenting his mantra as such, he is a trainwreck waiting to happen. as sheltie said, this sounds a lot like boobie knight.

while no one can argue about the great accomplishments of either coach, it has long been my contention of knight that sadly he will ultimately be remembered more for the antics than for the x's and o's genius and that is sad. hopefully that wont be the case for rickma as a billiken mentor.

i think if you ask my kids, they will tell you i never sheltered or coddled them, but i wouldnt have my kids play for a knight or a majerus if that still is his methodology. i guess i am more about positive motivation than a kick in the a$$. not that an occasional kick isnt warranted. but that should be the exception not the rule. i took it that it is the other way around.

sure you will find good players that loved that. but then you also hear from andrew bogut's that hated his guts and tells everyone they get a chance to tell how much they hated him. same with ex knight players. i guess the key is rickma finding the personalities that will thrive in that environment.

last thought, i am not glad that practice is closed. and it obvious now why it is closed.

Hes also helped Bogut become the national player of the year and dominate college basketball. What has he done in the NBA? He sure isnt setting the world on fire there. I guess playing for Majerus was the worst thing for him.

[Billiken Rich]

personally i think there are other ways to motivate players than pulling your d!ck out to illustrate how close to guard your man, calling your players a c*nt when they get beat, verbally abusing the deaf player on the team, punching your forward in the chest when he doesnt block out, etc. the entire article sounded like a marine bootcamp. personally if coach rickma is still presenting his mantra as such, he is a trainwreck waiting to happen. as sheltie said, this sounds a lot like boobie knight.

while no one can argue about the great accomplishments of either coach, it has long been my contention of knight that sadly he will ultimately be remembered more for the antics than for the x's and o's genius and that is sad. hopefully that wont be the case for rickma as a billiken mentor.

i think if you ask my kids, they will tell you i never sheltered or coddled them, but i wouldnt have my kids play for a knight or a majerus if that still is his methodology. i guess i am more about positive motivation than a kick in the a$$. not that an occasional kick isnt warranted. but that should be the exception not the rule. i took it that it is the other way around.

sure you will find good players that loved that. but then you also hear from andrew bogut's that hated his guts and tells everyone they get a chance to tell how much they hated him. same with ex knight players. i guess the key is rickma finding the personalities that will thrive in that environment.

last thought, i am not glad that practice is closed. and it obvious now why it is closed.

C'mon Roy, didn't you ever play football? Even at a Catholic highschool (Rosary,) while playing on a freshman team no one cared about, we were subjected to humiliation, assorted whacks, and the odd burst of profanity. I'll admit that these were not pleasant but they were hardly scarring. It may be a question of degree but it seems every coach I've ever come accross personally could out curse the saltiest seadog you could find.......

[davidnark]

personally i think there are other ways to motivate players than pulling your d!ck out to illustrate how close to guard your man, calling your players a c*nt when they get beat, verbally abusing the deaf player on the team, punching your forward in the chest when he doesnt block out, etc. the entire article sounded like a marine bootcamp. personally if coach rickma is still presenting his mantra as such, he is a trainwreck waiting to happen. as sheltie said, this sounds a lot like boobie knight.

while no one can argue about the great accomplishments of either coach, it has long been my contention of knight that sadly he will ultimately be remembered more for the antics than for the x's and o's genius and that is sad. hopefully that wont be the case for rickma as a billiken mentor.

i think if you ask my kids, they will tell you i never sheltered or coddled them, but i wouldnt have my kids play for a knight or a majerus if that still is his methodology. i guess i am more about positive motivation than a kick in the a$$. not that an occasional kick isnt warranted. but that should be the exception not the rule. i took it that it is the other way around.

sure you will find good players that loved that. but then you also hear from andrew bogut's that hated his guts and tells everyone they get a chance to tell how much they hated him. same with ex knight players. i guess the key is rickma finding the personalities that will thrive in that environment.

last thought, i am not glad that practice is closed. and it obvious now why it is closed.

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. There is a definitely a type of kid that will thrive under Majerus and another type of kid that will quickly fail under Majerus. I personally would have been a disaster in that environment, but I can think of a few friends I played sports with growing up who would have thrived under it. I don't see it as right or wrong, but rather a matter of finding the right players to fit the style. I think it lends credence to Majerus's statements that it is a struggle to run his system when the coach and players didn't select each other.

[Box and Won]

Since I do not have a son, I can't answer the "Would you want your son to play for Majerus?" question, and even if I did, it would still be difficult to answer until I had a feel for the kid's personality. To some kids, being called a "c---" is no big deal and they don't take things personally. Others may need to be coddled, maybe their egos are more delicate - those are the kind of kids who transfer and probably shouldn't have signed to play with Majerus in the first place.

[billiken_roy]

C'mon Roy, didn't you ever play football? Even at a Catholic highschool (Rosary,) while playing on a freshman team no one cared about, we were subjected to humiliation, assorted whacks, and the odd burst of profanity. I'll admit that these were not pleasant but they were hardly scarring. It may be a question of degree but it seems every coach I've ever come accross personally could out curse the saltiest seadog you could find.......

no i played basketball, baseball and ran cross country. thankfully, no coach, teacher, parent, or mentor of mine ever treated me like that for an extended period of time and i have nothing but the greatest respect and fond memories of my formative years and the success i and any team i was on achieved. as i have detested knight for years for his "methods" it only saddens me that our coach was/is similar in his methods. like i said, hopefully we will bring in kids that "want" that kind of treatment, and the net effect for us fans is winning basketball. to each their own. some people i guess need that i think there are plenty of success stories of positive motivation as well. i know if i had to pick my circle of friends i'd rather be around the people that are about being positive.

[billiken_roy]

There is a definitely a type of kid that will thrive under Majerus and another type of kid that will quickly fail under Majerus. I personally would have been a disaster in that environment, but I can think of a few friends I played sports with growing up who would have thrived under it. I don't see it as right or wrong, but rather a matter of finding the right players to fit the style. I think it lends credence to Majerus's statements that it is a struggle to run his system when the coach and players didn't select each other.

i agree completely. this article probably sheds more light on why we have so many questions on the happenings and questions on this season than anything. you take kids recruited to play in the ultra sunshine world of soderberg who was a walking ray of what's positive in life to all at once being shipped to a marine boot camp, i cant even imagine the culture shock our team went through. not necessarily a bad thing. but no doubt a shock none the less. and it indeed illustrates the need to flip the mantra of the players asap if we want to see consistent success. never have i seen the need for the team to be "rickma's kids" than now.

[brianstl]

i agree completely. this article probably sheds more light on why we have so many questions on the happenings and questions on this season than anything. you take kids recruited to play in the ultra sunshine world of soderberg who was a walking ray of what's positive in life to all at once being shipped to a marine boot camp, i cant even imagine the culture shock our team went through. not necessarily a bad thing. but no doubt a shock none the less. and it indeed illustrates the need to flip the mantra of the players asap if we want to see consistent success. never have i seen the need for the team to be "rickma's kids" than now.

It is what it is. All these stories were there when he became coach. It sucks for the kids on the team now, but long term it is the best thing that happen to this program in a long time. The sooner everybody accepts the fact that we have an eccentric coach who is set in his ways the better off we will all be.

I thought he would make some adjustments to his system for the conference season to better utilize what is on the roster now. I should have known better.