"culture" of basketball at SLU

[DoctorB]

I would love to hear what some folks on here think about Coach RM's frequent comments about our lack of a culture of basketball here at SLU.

When I have said that our fortunes will change, but probably not for another 4 years, I had 2 things in mind: 1) we need more talent (some of which we evidently are getting next fall); and 2) we need to change the culture around here. I lived in Bloomington IN for 14 years and before that grew up in a town sort of like like Hickory, IN from HOOSIERS, so I think I know what that culture actually looks like. Changing it here is a long-term project. RM spotted that right away, and he's correct. Actually, this insight should convince many that he really is in it for the long haul--meaning, 5-6 years or more, health permitting. I think he knew that right away.

I know there are real die-hard fans on here, so my slamming the basketball culture is not a slam at them. But overall, we do not have that kind of culture here, period. I was amazed at the Pacific game, to see about 7 Blue Crew folks there. That is really sad. It actually is shameful, and think of any recruits who might have attended. I sometimes go to city high school games, and see about 20 students in the stands (sometimes, for some schools, many more).

7 students!!-- please spare me about it being Thanksgiving. Well, when I was in high school, everyone went. Period. When I was at Indiana U., people would do anything short of a felony to get tickets. Here at SLU, I know very few students who can even name a player on the team, and probably 80% have never been to a single game, or would ever want to. It is hardly on the radar. Whatever momentum the previous Blue Crew had going last year seems to have really dissipated this year -- which is odd, given the changes in the program. We are simply lacking in that culture of needing to go, or to care. Actually, it seems to have gotten worse this year, for reasons I cannot explain. Perhaps to go up, you have to break down and build from a new foundation.

Winning will help, and the new arena. But without sounding TOO critical (yes, I guess after all I am a Hoosier basketball snob)-- the so-called basketball culture here is pretty poor. Comparing the area high schools with Indianapolis, just to give one example, is really funny to me. It is not just about talent, or how many end up in the NBA (a sadly dessicated league, in my view). It is about basketball culture.

BTW, this definitely affects recruiting also. I remember interviewing Coach Brad and he said something I have never gotten out of my head--how he was always amazed at the number of great athletic kids who have no real passion for the game, who are not gym rats, and who are doing it for the scholarships. I think Soderberg and Majerus have this is common--they want kids who love the game, who are passionate gym rats. Conklin sounds like the prototype of this kind of kid; Lisch and LM are too. I have often seen it in Mike Jones, one of our walk-ons, a kid with amazing passion for the game. These kinds of leaders are really important for the team and the culture, and it is amazing how so many recruits turn out NOT to have that. Shoot, when I was akid, there is nothing I would have liked more than being a Division I basketball player-- sorry not quite good enough.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I doubt anybody on here will disagree with you. I really don't understand why it's so pathetic. I always thought when you go to college, you root for your team. It's part of the college "experience". Nothing could be further from the truth at SLU. I honestly think winning will change a lot of things...but who knows. I thought the students would be pumped with our new coach, but that apparently didn't matter. You're an english teacher, right? Maybe some extra credit for SLU game writeups? I bet that'll get kids to the games.

[alameda bob]

Please do not compare any other of the remaining 49 states, with the possible exception of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, with Indiana's passion for the game. I have traveled extensively in my 44 years since leaving SL and know of what I speak.

I remember back in 1961 when my teammate on the SLU frosh invited me to his hometown of Evansville to watch the semi-state weekend. I was astounded at the 4 teams I saw play, any would have easily won the MO Class L (then the large school division) state championship. I know this because my alma mater SLUH beat Bill Bradley's Crystal City team a few days later, and I was there.

Everyone knows the Hoosier story, it could only happen in one place, Butler Field House.

[provos528]

The culture is more of "bandwagonesque" as everything heats up the more they will ride. Majority of the students personality could be the middle point of Wash U and Mizzou..

Fliexible

[jimbofive]

I have often seen it in Mike Jones, one of our walk-ons, a kid with amazing passion for the game.

Mike Jones has a cot in the equiment manager's office and crawls in the window every night after wiping all the black marks off all the basketball courts at the Rec. That kid is always in there.

[Parks 68]

Doc B,

Back when Charlie S. was coach, tickets to a Bills game were at a premium. Hard to get a seat to watch "Spoon Ball".

What has changed between now and then? How is the school different? How are the students different?

I would be interested to see just how much the "Basket Ball Culture" is related to the specific areas culture. As an example, basketball is big in Indiania while football is big in Texas.

In the STL area, a professional basketball team doen't even exist. It's really a baseball town with the Rams thrown in. Don't know how much that influences culture, but it has to have an impact!

Winning will help as well as promotion to the SLU students and the local population.

[MusicCityBilliken]

I would love to hear what some folks on here think about Coach RM's frequent comments about our lack of a culture of basketball here at SLU.

When I have said that our fortunes will change, but probably not for another 4 years, I had 2 things in mind: 1) we need more talent (some of which we evidently are getting next fall); and 2) we need to change the culture around here. I lived in Bloomington IN for 14 years and before that grew up in a town sort of like like Hickory, IN from HOOSIERS, so I think I know what that culture actually looks like. Changing it here is a long-term project. RM spotted that right away, and he's correct. Actually, this insight should convince many that he really is in it for the long haul--meaning, 5-6 years or more, health permitting. I think he knew that right away.

I know there are real die-hard fans on here, so my slamming the basketball culture is not a slam at them. But overall, we do not have that kind of culture here, period. I was amazed at the Pacific game, to see about 7 Blue Crew folks there. That is really sad. It actually is shameful, and think of any recruits who might have attended. I sometimes go to city high school games, and see about 20 students in the stands (sometimes, for some schools, many more).

7 students!!-- please spare me about it being Thanksgiving. Well, when I was in high school, everyone went. Period. When I was at Indiana U., people would do anything short of a felony to get tickets. Here at SLU, I know very few students who can even name a player on the team, and probably 80% have never been to a single game, or would ever want to. It is hardly on the radar. Whatever momentum the previous Blue Crew had going last year seems to have really dissipated this year -- which is odd, given the changes in the program. We are simply lacking in that culture of needing to go, or to care. Actually, it seems to have gotten worse this year, for reasons I cannot explain. Perhaps to go up, you have to break down and build from a new foundation.

Winning will help, and the new arena. But without sounding TOO critical (yes, I guess after all I am a Hoosier basketball snob)-- the so-called basketball culture here is pretty poor. Comparing the area high schools with Indianapolis, just to give one example, is really funny to me. It is not just about talent, or how many end up in the NBA (a sadly dessicated league, in my view). It is about basketball culture.

BTW, this definitely affects recruiting also. I remember interviewing Coach Brad and he said something I have never gotten out of my head--how he was always amazed at the number of great athletic kids who have no real passion for the game, who are not gym rats, and who are doing it for the scholarships. I think Soderberg and Majerus have this is common--they want kids who love the game, who are passionate gym rats. Conklin sounds like the prototype of this kind of kid; Lisch and LM are too. I have often seen it in Mike Jones, one of our walk-ons, a kid with amazing passion for the game. These kinds of leaders are really important for the team and the culture, and it is amazing how so many recruits turn out NOT to have that. Shoot, when I was akid, there is nothing I would have liked more than being a Division I basketball player-- sorry not quite good enough.

I remember this dentist from the VA Hospital I worked at in Fayetteville, NC who made it to every Kentucky home game and to several of the away games. The distance to Lexington is about 500 miles. He used to leave work around 10am and get to the Rupp right before game time. Then he would return by driving all night and be at work the next morning (I would hate to be his first patient if the Cats had lost that night before ). Also, this guy was in his 40's and was doing this for years.

[slu72]

The culture is more of "bandwagonesque" as everything heats up the more they will ride. Majority of the students personality could be the middle point of Wash U and Mizzou..

Fliexible

No we don't have the culture of an IU, KU, UNC, or DU. Why? What has this program ever done to create excitement in St. Louis other than for a few years under Spoon? I know I've posted this example/experience a few times before, but in the CUSA semi game at Cincinnati in '94 (I believe it was '94), I ran into a group of around 15-20 older fans wearing Spoonball shirts. I asked them what year they graduated. Only to find out they weren't alums, just plain fans who probably loved Spoon more than SLU hoops. But still they made the drive. We were winners, had a national ranking, and generating excitement. Even Spoon couldn't have got them to come if we were 15-15 and 13 pt underdogs in that game. As for students, they're like lemmings. If a lot of the lemmings jump off the cliff because it's the in thing to do, many others will follow. Hopefully, and I'm sure Father Larry is praying every night for this, the arena solves a lot of the student problems. But that will die if the team sinks back into mediocrity. No one's gonna' go year after year just to see a building. The Majerus era is probably the most critical period in SLU hoops. It's why I to think he's here for the long run, health permitting. He can start a culture of sorts, but he's gonna' do it one game, one season, one recruit at a time. What good would it do for him to be touting us up at this point or getting his face plastered all over town on billboards, or doing a weekly radio/tv show? He's really got nothing to shout about today. So he's concentrating on developing the product rather than selling it as something's it's not. W's, NCAA Invites, Rankings, talented kids will put tushies in the seats, create a buzz, and start a cultural change. RM can do it. He's done it before. The Utah Utes rarely, if ever, came to mind 20 years ago when talking about college hoops. Will we ever have the culture of IU, Kentucky, KU, UCLA, UNC, Duke, etc....probably not in my lifetime if ever. But we can still be a solid program with an avid fan base. Another thing a lot of those places have going for them is they are good old State U, where every farmer, truckdriver, Doctor, Lawyer, minister, grandmother feels like they are part of the school even if they didn't go there. They are Jayhawks, Tarheels, and Wildcats by birth. Just like ND built up it's subway alum, because Irish folks all over America identified with the name Fighting Irish. Who knows maybe we could have developed the same culture if way back in the Eddie Hickey days we had adopted the Irate Italians, the Pugilistic Poles, or the Mackeral Snappers as a mascot. But alas we chose a Buddist good luck charm. So, c'mon all you Bad A** Bhuddists get behind the Bills and help us create some damn culture.

[moytoy12]

Mike Jones has a cot in the equiment manager's office and crawls in the window every night after wiping all the black marks off all the basketball courts at the Rec. That kid is always in there.

I hope he tackles the PG in his last game. I can hear the crowd now, chanting "Jones-y Jones-y..."

[bonwich]

Well, it's certainly insane in Kentucky (where I lived for a while in high school) and in Indiana (where I grew up), but I also saw a similar Friday-night-is-basketball-night phenomenon when I lived in Madison and my downstairs neighbor was a coach at Verona High. My roommate and I used to drive out with the coach's wife to all the games (said coach, by the way, went on to a decent D2 career and is now a compliance official at Purdue).

Anyway, at that time in Madcity (late-70s), UW was pretty awful in football and basketball. It was reasonably easy to snag student tix even if you didn't have season tix. But UW indoctinated even us grad students on the how much Camp Randall was part of the whole college experience, and as a result, they got decent crowds even when they sucked, and fabulous crowds when the actually started to win. (And it was nigh impossible to get hockey tix back then, even though the team played in the Dane County Colosseum, which was quite a bit farther from campus than Kiel is from ours.)

We first moved to St. Louis in 1965 from Notre Dame, and my old man was flabbergasted at how he'd always hear about the Easy Ed team, which was about 15 years removed by that time. I can remember, however, going to games at Kiel in the '60s and '70s and seeing very good student sections -- in part, no doubt, because they had the primo seats in the lower level at center court.

I've said it out here forever -- yeah, sure, winning fixes everything, but even with a great coach, you're not always going to win, and even when you win, it's really unlikely that you're going to be hitting the Sweet 16 level year in and year out. So meanwhile, you've got to make the whole game experience something that the borderline fans will look forward to, even if you're not going to win 25 games this year.

As for the new arena, although it's true that the students have never earned a big section, I think you almost have to reserve it for them, because they're the ones that are going to be the foundation for that long-term tradition everyone is wanting to establish. That's where our "basketball culture" will finally evolve -- if it ever does.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I grew up in Quincy, IL, where Basketball is King. That was the name of the annual basketball guide of the Quincy Herald-Whig. High school basketball is a key part of the culture in Quincy, much like I read and hear that it is in Indiana. In contrast, you can drive right across the Mississippi River into Northeast Missouri and literally be in a different world basketball culture wise.

I spent 7 years at SLU, undergraduate and law school, beginning with the 4 years of the Ron Ekker Era, and followed by the first 3 years of the Rich Grawer Era. I moved to California after graduating from SLU, but I'm still a big Billiken fan and try to keep informed as best I can.

In my opinion, first and foremost, St. Louis is a baseball town. That being said, the best way to build a basketball culture is by winning. Winning spawns many positives and suppresses many problems, such as poor cheerleader uniforms, poor game day experience, etc.

Problems that SLU has faced in trying to build a basketball culture include some that are outside SLU's control. The first is the constant conference shuffling. SLU has gone from the Missouri Valley (when it had a vastly different composition), to the Metro, to the Midwestern City (MCC, now Horizon League), to the Great Midwest (which was a very good place for SLU), to C-USA (from which SLU was basically forced to leave due to the Big East raids in the domino effect of conference shuffling), to the Atlantic 10. That constant conference shuffling has kept SLU from being able to maintain rivalries with its natural rivals like Marquette, DePaul, Louisville, and Cincinnati.

And in my opinion, the venue moves by SLU, as a tenant, have not helped foster a basketball culture either. In my time, SLU has gone from old Kiel Auditorium (pre-Ekker), to the St. Louis Arena (Ekker Era), back to old Kiel Auditorium (for all but the last year of the Grawer Era), back to the St. Louis Arena (last year of Grawer, beginning of Spoonball), and then to the now Scottrade Center. The Scottrade Center is very impressive, and I've had people from other schools like USF (the California version) and even Quincy last year tell me how impressed they were with it. But the Scottrade Center is too big for the average SLU game. So I hope and believe that the move to the new on campus arena will help the basketball culture.

From what I've read and seen at SLU and at other campuses, there seems to be something about the present day students too. Even in the worst days of the Ekker Era, we had more than 7 students at the games.

But to really get to the point, in the words of Al Davis, "Just win, baby." That is really the bottom line. Win, and they will eventually come.

[slu72]

As for student attendance, when I was at SLU back in the Trapezoidal Era, not many kids went to games as SLU was still primarily a commuter school. Work, High School Girlfriends/Boyfriends, just wanted to get back to Ladue or Maplewood or St. Charles or where ever was uppermost on their minds. But there was a hardcore group of about 15 who lived on or near the campus who would go to almost every game. Now, as I understand it, SLU's got more balance between commuters and residents these days. My suggestion: Hire Bluecrewprez into the AD and have her work 'em up. Someone ought to do a little research study on the student body as to why they don't go. good marketing project for any Cook school kids on the board.

[billiken_roy]

My suggestion: Hire Bluecrewprez into the AD and have her work 'em up. Someone ought to do a little research study on the student body as to why they don't go. good marketing project for any Cook school kids on the board.

it was my understanding that bcp indeed did approach cheryl with the idea of a student liason position of sorts to try to continue the work she did as bcp. it was my understanding that those above cheryl nixed that quickly. another example of no vision.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Back when Charlie S. was coach, tickets to a Bills game were at a premium. Hard to get a seat to watch "Spoon Ball".

What has changed between now and then? How is the school different? How are the students different?

Could it be that it wasn't really the SLU students filling up the arena, but a bunch of Spoon-loving adults (maybe not even mostly SLU alumni)?

[provos528]

.... Just like ND built up it's subway alum, because Irish folks all over America identified with the name Fighting Irish. Who knows maybe we could have developed the same culture if way back in the Eddie Hickey days we had adopted the Irate Italians, the Pugilistic Poles, or the Mackeral Snappers as a mascot. But alas we chose a Buddist good luck charm. So, c'mon all you Bad A** Bhuddists get behind the Bills and help us create some damn culture.

My stomach hurts Remember China and Japan is a large market, If we could only find a Yao Ming or Yi Jianlian in the collegiate level plus the Billiken.. = $$$$ and worldwide fans..

[MusicCityBilliken]

Could it be that it wasn't really the SLU students filling up the arena, but a bunch of Spoon-loving adults (maybe not even mostly SLU alumni)?

I recall going to Charlotte for a game during the Spoon era. Just above the SLU bench was about 150 SLU fans. Wondering who and how these fans got these seats since I got tickets through SLU and I was stuck in peanut heaven, I went down to see them during 1/2 time. What I learned was that none of them had attended SLU and the only allegiance to the team was through Spoon. Not that that's bad but when Spoon left so did the fans.

[provos528]

Doc B,

Back when Charlie S. was coach, tickets to a Bills game were at a premium. Hard to get a seat to watch "Spoon Ball".

What has changed between now and then? How is the school different? How are the students different?

I would be interested to see just how much the "Basket Ball Culture" is related to the specific areas culture. As an example, basketball is big in Indiania while football is big in Texas.

In the STL area, a professional basketball team doen't even exist. It's really a baseball town with the Rams thrown in. Don't know how much that influences culture, but it has to have an impact!

Winning will help as well as promotion to the SLU students and the local population.

Re: St. Louis

It was not always Baseball, in the 70's it was football . Then Football again in the "Greatest Show in Turf" era..

St. Louis would always go where the team is always winning or has the biggest chance of a championship, there is just too much sports going in the area compared to Indiana (except for the recent Colts) and Kentucky -- that is their life down there Win or lose..

Spoonhour was already engrained in Missouri culture after his good stint at SMS so the chain effect followed to Saint Louis..

Majerus is new to the area so the city is still trying to know him.

All in all, if we create a winning culture with the Majerus effect in the national press, fans would come from everywhere..

[SluSignGuy]

Spoonball did so much for this program, and it will be tough to replicate. Hell, Spoonball brought my family into the Billiken mix. SignGuy's first homemade SIGN said Spoonball.

I am not in St. Louis much, but for that sort of era to be recreated Majerus has to be sitting on the Sportsplus couch every other week, and be in the KMOV's studio on the other Sundays. He need to do the post game show. He needs to go to tons of Cardinals games and be interview in the booth. He needs to become a St. Louis icon.

My hunch is though is that he loves the coaching and the game and not the other stuff. He probably doesn't want to be that icon. He is a better coach than Spoon, but the question is can he do for SLU what Spoon did?

[Quality Is Job 1]

Spoonball did so much for this program, and it will be tough to replicate. Hell, Spoonball brought my family into the Billiken mix. SignGuy's first homemade SIGN said Spoonball.

I am not in St. Louis much, but for that sort of era to be recreated Majerus has to be sitting on the Sportsplus couch every other week, and be in the KMOV's studio on the other Sundays. He need to do the post game show. He needs to go to tons of Cardinals games and be interview in the booth. He needs to become a St. Louis icon.

My hunch is though is that he loves the coaching and the game and not the other stuff. He probably doesn't want to be that icon. He is a better coach than Spoon, but the question is can he do for SLU what Spoon did?

I believe that Majerus will build SLU up into, at the very least, a respectable Div. I program -- similar to Xavier or Creighton (at minimum, please understand what I'm saying) -- but it's still a process that won't happen overnight. The question is, Will the SLU administration allow him to build the program up his way? Will the fans allow him to do it (by continuing to boost and attend games -- with growth in both areas)? Brad Soderberg was slowly, steadily, building the program, but certain people were dissatisfied with the pace (and he wasn't fully backed to the extent Majerus is), and he got fired. Majerus probably wouldn't get fired, but he could get burned out if the administration isn't cooperating -- and it would likely cease to cooperate if the fans are staying away in droves because they want microwaved success. Gonzaga's dynasty wasn't built overnight.

Majerus doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. He's already demonstrated a propensity to build a winning program. He doesn't do it by becoming a celebrity; he does it by teaching and recruiting coachable players. The teaching is what he has a passion for, but his interest may wane if we insist that he dilute that passion and borrow from it so that he can do the celebrity rounds. Let Thorpe, Biancardi and Moser sit in the Sports Plus chair. That would help make a transition smoother, anyway, since Majerus won't be here forever, even if he stays 10 years.

[slu72]

Brad Soderberg was slowly, steadily, building the program, but certain people were dissatisfied with the pace (and he wasn't fully backed to the extent Majerus is), and he got fired.

Thicks, I generally agree with your opinions about the program, but to say UB was building the program is over the top. You build it by recruiting good players. Had UB not failed to follow up the TL and KL with decent classes he'd still be here. DM, AK, HD, and Obi Wan were not building blocks.

[bluecrewprez]

it was my understanding that bcp indeed did approach cheryl with the idea of a student liason position of sorts to try to continue the work she did as bcp. it was my understanding that those above cheryl nixed that quickly. another example of no vision.

Thanks for the thought! I met with Cheryl, the VP of Student Development AND the Provost for about 7 months to try and get them to create that job ("Director of Internal Marketing", I called it). I just think they didn't the importance or necessity of the position seriously. I understand why kids don't go to basketball games and I KNOW I could have helped it this year, but apparently "funds were unavailable" to create such a position. I pushed for that job for a long time, but got cut off at the top in May (now I'm the Director of Marketing for Saint Louis Closet Co. and Saint Louis Cellars, a wine store that just opened at the beginning of November, both companies owned by the same person).

Students don't go to games not because they don't like basketball, but for bigger reasons than that...students aren't proud or invested enough in their university to care about how their team is doing. 90% of the people I came across during my 4 years as an undergrad came to SLU NOT as their first choice but it was their safety school....because they didn't get into Marquette or Georgetown or some other bigger, "better" university. No one will come into their college wanting to support it and be proud if they didn't want to be there in the first place. This is not an athletic department issue, this is a UNIVERSITY issue. It doesn't matter if we spend millions on a new coach if students aren't given a reason to care. Another thing that MUST be done is for STUDENTS to do a lot of on campus promotions. Administrators can tell them they should go to games, but we all know how anti-establishment college kids are (I can say that now coz I'm a graduate ). Students need other STUDENTS telling them it's cool to go to games.

I won't lie, I was a bit disappointed with the numbers for Blue Crew this year. We had 409 members last year and this year they have around 200...with a brand new coach and an even better team than last season. I'm in no way knocking the new Blue Crew e-board (the people running it are some of my closest friends and are absolutely amazing fans), but there is an excitement missing from the student body in general. There will be no loyalty to the university if the university is not loyal to the students (as in giving them a reason to care). We all know it can be done (case in point: 1st Billiken Madness 3 years ago coming off of a 9-21 season and pulling in over 1000 people), the administrators need to step up and realize that something MUST be done, or else Biondi is going to continue pissing money away. All you can do is sigh and shrug and hope they figure it out one day, coz we all know they sure as hell don't listen to the alums/fans/students about what needs to be done.

[Box and Won]

90% of the people I came across during my 4 years as an undergrad came to SLU NOT as their first choice but it was their safety school....because they didn't get into Marquette or Georgetown or some other bigger, "better" university.

Switch out Marquette with, say, Notre Dame or BC. Marquette and SLU are equals, academically speaking.

[Box and Won]

Well, it's certainly insane in Kentucky (where I lived for a while in high school) and in Indiana (where I grew up), but I also saw a similar Friday-night-is-basketball-night phenomenon when I lived in Madison and my downstairs neighbor was a coach at Verona High. My roommate and I used to drive out with the coach's wife to all the games (said coach, by the way, went on to a decent D2 career and is now a compliance official at Purdue).

Verona would have won state, had it not been for all the technicals called on their hot-blooded point guard, Tybalt, in the championship game. He couldn't stop making the "throat-slashing" gesture toward the opposing bench.

[bonwich]

Verona would have won state, had it not been for all the technicals called on their hot-blooded point guard, Tybalt, in the championship game. He couldn't stop making the "throat-slashing" gesture toward the opposing bench.

What's in a name? That which we call a Lisch by any other name would shoot as sweet. (I believe that was written by the president of SIU after our game with them last year.)

[provos528]

Students don't go to games not because they don't like basketball, but for bigger reasons than that...students aren't proud or invested enough in their university to care about how their team is doing. 90% of the people I came across during my 4 years as an undergrad came to SLU NOT as their first choice but it was their safety school....because they didn't get into Marquette or Georgetown or some other bigger, "better" university. No one will come into their college wanting to support it and be proud if they didn't want to be there in the first place. This is not an athletic department issue, this is a UNIVERSITY issue. It doesn't matter if we spend millions on a new coach if students aren't given a reason to care. Another thing that MUST be done is for STUDENTS to do a lot of on campus promotions. Administrators can tell them they should go to games, but we all know how anti-establishment college kids are (I can say that now coz I'm a graduate ). Students need other STUDENTS telling them it's cool to go to games.

Any school in Missouri would always be a second choice unless you are from the state. Wash U would always get people that weren't able to get into the Ivy Leagues. SLU with the likes of ND, Boston C and Georgetown --- Marquette?? (I need to talk that person..lol)

Mizzou with Texas Univs, Ohio State, Michig..etc..

Must be the state itself so schools within it are connected. Missouri would always be second fiddle to half of the states of the Country..

Well for me, I cherished being a part of the SLU family more after I graduated.