Billiken fans???

[TheA_Bomb]

I live out of town and go to about 2-3 games per year thanks to UNCA and Alumnifan for hooking me up w/ tix in the past. I used to let the tools on this board get to me and would constantly battle them remember the old unregistered board? Anyway, at least back then they didn't claim to be SLU fans they were usually from other schools. I try not to let them get to me now because I have realized that is all they really want to do.

You can think of the AD department as your "family" if you want, I just love the school because that is where I went to school and I want them to be the best they can be. When I was in school I didn't care for some of the players but still cheered for the team.

[Sheltiedave]

I figure fans approach rooting for their team like they approach life.

For some, it's never good enough. It is always a wheel falling off the wagon, or the wrong turn, or someone else's fault.

Others demand perfection from everyone but themselves.

There also are people who can never seem to get things together because they don't have control over absolutely everything.

I'm a firm believer in dealing with exactly what you are dealt on a daily basis, and trying to plan and work your way to where you want to be. Whether we have a team where Ryan Luechtefeld is our best player, or this year it is Larry Hughes, I'll be in the stands cheering on the B&W. I'm also surprised more of the doom and gloomers haven't committed suicide, as bad as things are...

[bbill]

I have been a season ticket holder for more than 20 years and see the vast majority of games. In my opinion, Brad is a fantastic person but not a major Division 1 coach. He is above average as a game coach but nowhere near as good as Charlie Spoonhour, for example. I believe he is below average as a recruiter, and not improving despite the announcement of the new facility.

I want the Bills to win as much as anyone but don't believe the Brad supporters are realistic about his strengths/weaknesses, probably because they like him as a person.

[ILbillikenfan]

I have been going to Bills game since i was a wee tot, but became a religious fan when I came to SLU in 02. I think I missed two games in four years, luckilly being from St. Louis I didn't miss any of the 1000 games SLU schedules over break.

I also went to three of the last four conference tourneys, and about 4 or 5 other road games...the farthest being Arizona my freshman year.

[courtside]

Roy,

You don't want AD turnover. You are aware Levick is gone as soon as she gets a big time offer somewhere else? She will use the new Arena on resume, as well as mopping up with lesser sports in easier leagues. All she needs is a little more improvement in men's hoops and she is toast. No chance she stays at SLU for the long haul. None. I am fine with that, as long as there is a successor to continue from that point and continue to move forward.

[slu72]

After graduating a long time ago, I moved and have never returned to ST. Louis, the closest being 400 miles or so. While there, I never missed a game, even when there were less than a 1000 fans in the massive old arena. The first time I saw St. Louis U play I was in the 8th grade and watched them against Providence in the NIT. For some reason, I liked them. I became a Bills fan, never knowing I would eventually go there. Whenever they are close, I go to see them on the road. SLU is my alma mater, my team. Until this year, I can't say I've been a negative poster. Why this negativity? It springs from frustration. Frustration from seeing other similar institutions to SLU, and some lesser types, develop the type of programs we aspire to. I am not anti A-10, it's a good fit for us that happens to be down right now. It doesn't help that the conference we spurned two years ago also happens to be the conference du jour with the media, but that will probably change as well. I don't think I've ever posted anything malicious about a player, eg "he sucks", but probably have questioned whether they are capable of playing at this level. That's probably wrong on my part. But the worst name I've ever used is to call JJ an enigma. My current discontent with the program is not the players. They are who they are. And I seriously think we have two of the best young guards in the nation. TL and KL. Both impressive. IV is legit, but when I watch Florida's bigs take it to the hole last night against Providence, he ain't them. His style is different, but this kid could elevate us to an NCAA berth if he so decides to put forth the effort. No, it's not the players. So, it's got to be the man in charge. Yes, I wanted the flash and dash Gregory possibly could have bought to this program. But in the end realized UB might be the better fit for SLU, and hoped he turn out to be a Martelli type. Stability in the HC job is the key for any long term success. Although I marvel at SIU's success despite a flurry of changes there. But they are all home grown replacements so to say. UB's in his fifth year, and to his credit he was left with a rat's nest for a team. He scrambled, he scratched, he won more than he lost surprisingly with a patchwork team. Two NIT's ....hmmm...maybe this is the guy. But now two years after his best job of recruiting the questions start cropping up again. One fall recruit in two years, the failure to land a top JUCO from his own backyard, nothing this fall. His class prior to the L boys, nothing to write home about. You win with players, and he is showing a disturbing trend of not getting players. For example, in the Providence vs Florida game last night, PU had a pretty impressive PF, Wilson, I believe. Not an all american, not great stats, but a guy like that would help us. Yet we can't land one. Haven't landed one in five years. If the Friars can get one, why not us? Whenever I see the Billikens, either TV or in person, I always come away with the impression we don't have the athleticism or talent of our opponent. And when the few times I do get to see them, I get a St. Joes type game....Yes, he's a good decent hard working sincere man. And yes, he wants success at SLU. After all it's his professional career at stake. To think he's a slacker is idiotic, but something ain't working. I asked a UW grad, why would UW let him go after a turbulent season where he leads them to the dance. The guy said, they just didn't think he had the essentials to be a top D1 coach. None of us can make that judgement, we're not AD's. But one thing's for sure, and you can't argue this Billikan, in five years the results are less than impressive. So, are you not a fan if you question this man? Fans want their teams to win, make them proud, say, "hey we're pretty good at this." It's why 60 million Brazilians love their soccer team, why hard working people dole out $300 for a Sunday at an NFL game, why I want to throw my brand new HD TV out the window when Tom Coughlin makes such bonehead calls for my Giants, why SIU fans come on here and make fun of us...It makes them feel better, whatever their reasons. Hell, Warren Buffet feels better when Nebraska wins a football game. Does this make him a little guy whose living vicariously through his team? There's not a thing wrong with the ABC'ers intelligently questioning UB's performance. Especially when they want a whole lot more success for their team. You mention Family. Following and supporting a team, from close up or far away, instantly makes you part of the family. I don't know you from a hole in the wall, but if I saw you on the street with a Billikens sweatshirt, I'd introduce myself, and we'd strike up an immediate bond. But being in a family doesn't require lock step obedience to following some one down the wrong path. Get over it Billikan, this ain't, It's a Wonderful LIfe, where everyone's gonnna support good old UB. In fact it's not about him at all, it's about ...the Billikens...our school....SLU. We all want them to succeed.

[brianstl]

Yeah, your right Spoon was so successful at UNLV. He was such a great recruiter when he had to build a team that wasn't based on Grawer's recruits. I must have missed it when Carrawell and Woods committed to SLU.

[Billiken Rich]

Someone: Hey the Dow topped 2100!

SLU72: Yeah it'll be down tomorrow on profit taking...

You (and the rest of club whine) could find the negative in nearly anything. Driven by the true haters on the board, not always you to be sure, the negativity isn't warrented, realistic, or interesting.

If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with....

[slu72]

Yeah, but when the one your with can be improved...well, buy her some self help books, some Herbal Life, put her on botox. Your ability to see the glass as half full is amazing. Must be a shot glass, right? He is not the guy, as much as I want to see him prove us wrong, he's not the guy. By the way, Brich, I could use another decal...got any extras?

[slufanskip]

How is he below average as a recruiter when we have a team with a good shot at making the dance and 3 potential all league players?

By no means do I think he has done a great job as a recruiter and I am as disapointed in where we sit in regards to this years recruiting as anyone else. I also think making it a habit of waiting until the spring is not a good way to go.

But by hardwork, charming personality, or just plain luck we have some good players on the team ... all players gotten by Brad.

If you disagree that we have the players, and we make the dance or even the NIT, you would have to consider him as a very good game coach ... you can't have it both ways

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

[NashvilleBilliken]

What happened to your Giants? Looks like my boy Pacman got into Eli's head when they visited Nashville.

[RealisticBilliken]

I agree that we need to recruit guys under the radar. We have zero chance at landing a top 100 unless they are from st. louis and have some sort love affair with the school.

No kool-aid drinking from you on this post.

[slu72]

That ain't real hard to do these days, Nashville, seeing as how he's got the entire NY Sports media in there. That was a disgusting loss...a stupid loss...Fisher had it right when he said, "did that really just happen?"

[RealisticBilliken]

I don't understand how you can say I'm unrealistic when I believe our program should be at the level of a Marquette, Creighton, and possibly a Gonzaga in the near future. How can that be labeled as an unrealistic expectation??? You've been waiting 29 years for the program to turn around, I think that should be frustrating in itself! I would expect you more then anything to be pissed that very little has happened in the past 30 years.

Look at all those schools - they are identical in nearly every way to the SLU program. Sure Marquette has more tradition than us, but Creighton, SIU, Gonzaga? Come on. There is no reason they should all be having their years while we wallow around the virtual unknowns of D1. I'm tired of waiting for us to even make a tournament. We've had what 6 tournament invites in our history? How much long do we have to wait Roy?

[courtside]

If you want to build a program like Marquette or Gonzaga, imo it will take a dynamic coaching presence on and off the court who is tireless worker, not just in the basketball part of the job. That person would need full support of the administration to do things. That person is tough to find.

If SLU won ball games and made the atmosphere at games an event not to be missed, people will come. The casual observer not affiliated with SLU will come because people in St. Louis will support a winner. The only winter competition for sports dollar is the $80 ticket Blues after first of the year.

SLU won't have a problem getting fans if they win consistently, and play a more attractive style of ball. See Tom Penders comments. Hoops junkies will come, but not Joe average fan that you need as well.

This Saturday your above mentioned Marquette hosts Wisconsin. Why do I mention it? Well, Lately there have been some pretty good recruits in that state and region, and many of them go to either Wisconsin or Marquette. Not as many are floating off to the far away powers.(best kids in recent years are from in state or Minnesota, Chicago, Indiana on either team) Build your program locally, regionally, then sustain it nationally and you will have a winner. Much easier said than done. Takes a dynamic recruiter who can do it each year or every other year.

SLU needed to build off of Liddell and Lisch. If the response back is...well...not many good STL area kids in two years following...go to rest of the state, S Illinois, Chicago,(where there are always players) or Arkansas(while they were rebuilding under Heath had a chance for some)....etc...places in the region. It inevitably doesn't matter where you get your players...i.e. Arizona has zero kids on their roster from in state...but it is easiest to build a program that way. AZ is big time and can go nationally wherever to get kids.

It is frustrating to hear the two big things on this board:

1) person A, ...leave SLU alone, it is just fine, we like our nice hardworking people. Excuses are made why the team and program isn't better.

2) The unrealistic people who think SLU has the tradition or history or commitment of the other schools.

But the truth is in the middle...SLU can be a good basketball program, much better than it is now. Or I wouldn't be on this board. It is NOT good enough or acceptable enough for me as it is currently. For many that is not the case. However, it will not be done overnight. That is entirely unrealistic.

Recruiting is hard, tough stuff. It isn't for the meek. In the beginning it will always take a Lisch or Liddell to believe in starting something...then a couple of other big timers who believe in what is being started...and get the ball rolling.

The Arena and facilities will help a lot. And that is one part of many needed to succeed.

[RealisticBilliken]

Courtside I agree with your comments

The arena should help tremendously.

[billiken_roy]

see that is where your perspective is so far behind those of us that have been around since per 1980.

my perspective says we have advanced tremendously in 29 years. i was there when we were lucky to get 200 fans in the old arena when we were playing eventual national champion louisville. i was there when we were losing to the likes of naia mckendree. i was there when instead of building an arena, slu decided it made more sense to build an intramural facility. i was there when we thought about dropping down to division 3. i was there when choo choo coleman was losing about 30 games. i was there when ekker was cheating and getting us on probation to lose almost 30 games. to make matters worse, ekker has an affair with a team cheerleader. talk about integrity.

so you see, the fact that those of you that are p!ssed we arent in the top 25 now and we arent signing top 50 recruits in november have no perspective. sure it isnt good enough yet, but we indeed have come a long long way. there have been periods of back sliding, but then we seem to take the steps forward to move ahead again. building a winning program is not an easy task and it wont be accomplished overnite without cheating or extreme luck.

you brashly throw out creighton, siu and gonzaga, but you obviously have no idea about their history with the exception of maybe the last 5 years or so. go back 20 and see if there is a great difference. it didnt happen for them overnight as well.

[courtside]

And I was there when they scheduled Blackburn on weekday afternoons. Welcome to 2006. The program has advanced beyond those days. I for one would like to see more consistency at a slightly higher level than now. I would like to see SLU make the NCAA tourney most years and schedule tough non-conference games(Texas A&M, UNC, etc..)You don't have to be i the top 25 or get top 50 kids to do that.

I agree that the above poster is unrealistic to think it all gets done overnight with snap of fingers. But I don't see any progression since the early days of Spoon Ball. I see regressive years and the same level.

The current level isn't good enough for me. The atmosphere is dreadful at many games, not good enough for me.

SLU should be more competitive than it is, playing an attactive brand of ball. It is certainly very very possible.

Some are content with where things are vs where they were...and some want more than that. I am in the category of wanting more than that. I don't expect top 50 recruits or top 25 ranking every year. But I do expect SLU to be in the top 50 every year. And getting top 150 players.

[RealisticBilliken]

Please point out where I said it happens overnight. And please don't just make up things that I post. Thank you.

[slufanskip]

Can you follow that same rule?

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

[Schasz]

I actually graduated from SLU one year before SLU72, and I was a Bills fan even before I went to SLU. Before I moved from St. Louis in '96 I had season tickets for years...in fact I still have the same tickets in my name and who knows maybe I will sneak into town to see my team play a game or two.

I still follow the team from my new home town Palm Harbor, FL, even though it is a little hard as our guys don't get too many TV games. I understand the frustrations of the people who have been fans of the program for years. It has been a crazy ride with the team, and my favorite years were the successful Spoon years. Those were fun years but he could not sustain them because he did not recruit with one exception...the Hughes team.

Let's face it, recuiting is what seperates the contenders from the pretenders, and no matter who has been the HC, successful recruiting has ALWAYS been a bugaboo at SLU. I became a Zags fan when I lived in Seattle, WA, and while it did take them awhile to get it going once they did hell that program just reloads in of all freaking places Spokane, WA.

Is Coach Soderberg the man to get us to the level the tried and true fans of SLU want??? Well while I like him, I must say, school is still out on that question. I honestly believe that the 2006-07 season is a critical one for Coach Soderberg. If he does not take us to the Big Dance this year then even I will question, if he EVER will. I do hope he succeeds both on the court and recruiting, because I do concur with B-Roy that the darn revolving door at SLU has not helped. I will be rooting for the team to get over the hump and play in the NCAA come March.