thetorch Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I just finished listening to Frank's show this morning and I was shocked at the repsonse to the news of SLU being invited to the A-10. All the callers, Tiger Tim and even Frank made it clear that SLU should be joining the Missouri Valley, that this would be the best thing for the school and the future of the program. This is unbelieveable to me. I think all of us posting here have been repsectful towards the Mo Valley, they run a good tourney here and have some nice teams. Lets get down to brass tacks though, and I preface this by saying I am only going off because I don't want SLU to end up in the Valley. The Valley is bush league, its A Ball, mid major, lucky to get two teams in the tourney and has a top 25 team once a decade. To compare it to the A-10 with or without SLU and Charlotte is ridiculous and wanting SLU to join the Mo Valley, I have to beleive if you want that you either are clinically insane or do not want SLU to have a good basketball team. I heard all these reasons that SLU should go MO Valley and not A-10. 1. The A-10 is too far away -- I would go to China to be in a big time bball conference over relagating the program to mid major status. Anyone who wouldn't want SLU to be in as good of a conference as it can get, Iask why are you a fan in the first place? 2. There are no interesting rivalries in the A-10 comapred to the Mo Valley -- Hey sure I am not salivating over Duquesne and Fordham coming to play at Savvis, but who is going to get excited about northern Iowa, Bradley, Drake, Illinois St., Evansville, Wichita St.? Just because we play a couple nice games a year against SMS and SIUC doesn't mean we should join their league. 3. Attendance will falter because of playing the aforementioned teams in the A-10 -- Yes and crowds will pack Savvis for Drake. The A-10 has many more good teams than the Missouri Valley, people will show up for games against top 25 teams, people want to watch good basketball, if you want to see some local guys shooting around go watch UMSL. The A-10 gives us the ability to see and play against top caliber competition, bottom line the Missouri Valley doesn't. 4. SLU needs to be in a conference with schools more like them (this is the tiger fan excuse ie go D-3 like Wash U so we do not have to compete with you for good recruits) -- How many Jesuit schools are in the Mo Valley? 2, how many in A-10 4. How many private schools in Missouri valley? 3. How many in the A-10? More than twice as many. Gee which conference is more like us? I'm afraid Mo Valley backers want us to be more like Mo Valley teams, ie have a bad program. 5. The Mo Valley is just as good as the A-10 -- I beg to differ, hey Creighton had a nice run and SIUC made a sweet sixteen but lets look at the numbers -- A-10 RPI 17 Xavier-Ohio 25 Saint Joseph's 33 Dayton 79 Temple 101 St. Bonaventure 103 Rhode Island 106 Richmond 141 George Washington 170 La Salle 197 Massachusetts 222 Duquesne 293 Fordham MO Valley RPI 21 Creighton 51 Southern Illinois 105 SMS (SW Missouri St.) 124 Wichita St. 168 Evansville 173 Bradley 193 Northern Iowa 221 Illinois St. 227 Drake 248 Indiana St. It is no contest. Obviously the A-10 is not the ACC, but the Mo Valley wishes it had the RPI numbers the A-10 had. Creighton had an atypical year, can they keep up that play? No way, The Mo Valley is a two tourney team conference, the A-10 3 to 4 at least. Their is no comaprisonthe A-10 is heads and shoulders above the Mo Valley Is there an advantage to going to the Mo Valley over the A-10? Just one advatage? I don't see it. The A-10 has better basketball, will increase our attendance, has a better national reputation in converage and rankings, and has more schools who are in teh same mold as SLU is. Why then would anyone want SLU to be in the Mo Valley? For the better soccer? C'mon, so we can travel to all the backwoods Illinois road games, Carbondale is not exactly a favorite vacation destination. The only reason I see for going to the Mo Valley is to hold SLU down. SLU would become irrelevant if they went to the Mo Valley, they might as well go d-3. As a SLU fan I want SLU to be the best basketball program possible, we are a good program now. Look how Marquette has improved their national standing in just one year. Joining the Mo Valley we would be giving up an chance of being a top 25 program and a final four and championship contender. SLU is at the biggest crossroads the program has faced since the Ekker era, we have a chance to solidify ourselves once again as a national player, or give up and relagate ourselves to mediocrity. One question that I think can sum it all up, every school in the Valley if in SLU's place would go to the A-10 in a heartbeat. What does that say about people who want to abandon the A-10 and join the Mo Valley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I agree 100% with everything you have said Torch. Tiger Tim wants SLU in the Valley because he does not want MU to have to compete with SLU. Frank's comments are a little disappointing - I admit I did not hear the show so I am going only by what you wrote - he is the TV announcer for SLU on Charter - I would hope that he was not clouded by his interest to not have to travel too far. The A-10 is the best place for the Bills if there only choices are the Valley and the A-10. The A-10 has a much better upside and you are correct about the national media coverage. We talk about how the East Coast slights us in the Midwest - well now we could be in the East Coast world and that can only help regarding the media issue. All the articles I have read about SLU going into the A-10 also talk about the conference cleaning up their act and getting rid of some of the usually losers I have not heard that at all from the MVC. Now that being said - the A-10 is no longer the A-10 there is now 12 teams and we along with UNC would make it 14 so maybe a new name for the conference could be considered to help those who are having trouble with it. I am not sure but did Tim and Frank say anything about how stupid it would be for Marquette and DePaul to go to the Big East? or how maybe those two schools should think about joining the Horizon? That league certainly has more geographical rivals in it for them. The big difference here is that people forget that SLU draws students from across the nation not just locally or regionally so for long time St. Louis people, rivals on the east coast may seem strange but just look at the postings on this Board - how many kids graduated from here and are not either living or going to school back east or elswhere than the Midwest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 very good post torch. i agree completely. i did not hear the whole show, but i never got the impression frank agreed with the mo valley over the a-10. tigertim patronizing the billiken fandom though doesnt surprise me. why is he even given a microphone on frank's show. he makes me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I agree with your assessment. Tiger Tim is an obvious dolt, but I'm surprised Frank C. would share this viewpoint of SLU going to the MVC. Someone needs to check the air filtration system at KSDK. I just don't see this happening. Fr. Biondi is not going to take what most people would feel is a giant leap backwards in conference affiliation, just as he's trying to build a new on campus arena and enhance the university's appeal to prospective students. This doesn't make sense to me. Another thing, I have to believe our revenue generation opportunities are greater in the A10 than the MVC. There is no way Fr. Biondi hired probably the best guy he could to broker a deal for SLU to end up in the MVC. Bucks, stature, etc. all point to the A10 (if SLU is invited). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I can understand the argument made by those who think we should join the Mo Valley in terms of the closer geography and the possibility that some of the games--SIU and SMS and Creighton may draw some nice crowds. What I cannot understand is the fact that those people seem to ignore the fact that no matter how you paint the picture the Mo Valley is a significant drop down in competition, RPI rankings and national exposure. If we have to move--and that seems to be a foregone conclusion--then the school needs to try to move to the best--highest ranked--conference that would be available. In my view, the A-10 is the best available. Also, in terms of exposure, playing teams in New York, Pittsburg, Cinn., Philadelphia, Mass., etc will give our Bills a much better opportunity to have exposure in national markets that have a lot of the people who make decisions re television matchups, invites to tournaments such as the NIT, and overall positioning in the basketball picture nationally. In addition, as was demonstrated by our signing of Drejaj, we can recruit in the east and although I know that the staff is concentrating on local players, exposure on the east coast will help us in recruiting those areas. In terms of success, we have seen from coach Romar that romancing the west coast recruits will not pay off in the short or long term. On the other hand, we can sucessfully recruit in the midwest and the east--particularly if we get more exposure there. Peoria, Ill., Springfield, Mo., Carbondale, Ill., Omaha, Neb., Wichita, Kan., Evansville, Ill. and small towns in Iowa are very nice small cities with a solid small town midwestern approach to life. But playing in those towns will give us almost no national exposure and If we do not win the conf.tournament it may give us little chance of ever going to the big dance because of the low RPI numbers. I think the school is on the right track with the A 10. We sure do owe Xavier for all of the times in the Grawer era when they broke our hearts in the conference tournament. However that payback will be very tough because Xavier has become a power and it recruits very well. Bring on the A 10! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Don't worry; I have heard from several sources that the SLU administration has zero interest in moving to the Valley. The morons who call into talk shows can opine and wish all they want, but SLU is not moving to the Valley. I have no idea why Frank C. would support these morons' thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Correct me if I am wrong, but the TV deal we had with CUSA probably is a reason why we are not on Fox. Frank has the Billiken Charter job secure for life if they stay on charter (which I pray they don't, ESPNSportszone can probably get the Fox Games ). But with a new TV deal, maybe Frank is worried about his job some. I mean, I think he really loves it, and doesn't want to give it up. But I doubt a KSDK guy will be hired by Fox Sports Midwest. His opinion could be completely non-job oriented at all, but who knows, it could. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I completely agree, but you know what I wish we could do (well we could, but it would be a bit of a chore). I wish we could recalculate the A-10s RPIs removing the Dead weight teams as a factor. I bet most of the A10's teams RPIs would go up, and some would even go up further if they got to play SLU or Charlotte once or twice a year. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 i think that is a stretch steve. frank's opinion wont matter one bit imo on tv contracts for a league. as tseugnekillib pointed out a couple of weeks ago, (i have been paying attention since tseugnekillib made this comment) it sure seems frank now goes out of his way to down play his billiken fanship on the show. he agrees with tigertim a lot. and really seems to appreciate tiger ball more than in the past. maybe this is just another example. frank is still our top billiken billiken backer though, so i continue to support him 100%. we need to get tigertim off the show is what we need. heck, let's make it total billiken time and pair frank with ramsey. i for one hate ramsey and claiborne together. they seem to bring out the worst in each other. so have frank and billiken bullet bob together with special regular guest star earl austin jr. on very frequently. that would be the best two hours of radio a billiken fan could hope for. then pair claiborne and tiger tim together and their regular guests could be demetrious johnson and maurice scott. that would be a good time to mow the lawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Having never listened to any of these shows, except for Randy Karracker(sp?)when he did it with Spoon and Romar, I can't believe two STL sports guys would be pushing us to join an inferior mid major league. Just ask around any where in the country. X is establishing a big time name, Temple (enough said), Dayton add SLU and Charlotte you've got a start to a nice league. Now just add College of Charleston and dump one of the A-10 bottom feeders and it would be a solid conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cujaysfan Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I'm baaaack. Thanks to steve for fixing my Login issue - i have been lurking for a long time - but not able to post...as to the MVC/A10/SLU there are several issues here... 1. i don't know that the valley is necessarily interested in SLU (believe it or not). Most of the folks on the valleytalk.net board are happy with the one division 10 team format. adding SLU would throw that off. I also don't like the idea of SLU having a "homecourt" advantage for the MVC tourney. 2. The A-10 is not a natural fit for SLU. It isn't a bad conference - i would certainly take issue with anyone who says so - but the travel for all non-rev sports is going to be brutal. The lack of natural rivalries is an issue. It is the ATLANTIC 10 for God's sake - last I checked - St Louis is more than a stone's throw from the Eastern seaboard. Someone posted about the lack of "rivalries" for SLU in the MVC - have to really disagree with that. SIU is a series and good rivalry that has been going on for many years. SMS is a great series as well. Creighton would be a great natural rivalry - many STL folks go to Creighton and vice versa - both are strong bases for each others alumni as well - not too mention the Jesuit thing. Unfortuneately for SLU - I don't think this is the Bills last conference stop. This is not near the fit that the Great Midwest was - and I believe that many of the schools involved in the conference swapping would have loved to form a new conference much like the GMC - but NCAA rules now don't allow the granting of an automatic bid for conference winner til after FIVE YEARS of conference play - truly a ridiculous rule. So what has happened is the movement between conferences. So - while I do think this was a good move as Conf USA is now a terrible conference and is likely to disintegrate anyway soon. I don't know that it is the greatest situation for the Bills. I still hope for the oft discussed "Papal Conference" to evolve and happen - but won't be holding my breath to see it happen. Bash away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluzer Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 SLU is an private, urban university which makes it a much better fit with the A-10. Also, the MVC has no schools with any kind of national reputation athletically or academically. Every kid has at lesast heard of Temple, Xavier, and UMASS (thanks to Calipari). Who outside of the midwest has ever heard of any of the MVC schools? And as has been mentioned on this board several times, assuming our presence in the A-10 or MVC will help our recruiting in the areas these conferences are located, would you rather attract plyers from Omaha and Des Moines or Philadelphia, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Jaysfan, Xavier and Dayton are two of SLU's biggest natural rivals (DePaul, Marquette, and Creigton are the other three that come to mind). The private, urban university, basketball-first focus of the A-10 is also a nice fit for SLU. That being said, I hope SLU continues (and develops) out-of-conference rivalries with SMS, SIUC, and Creigton. SLU does not, however, need to be in the Mo Valley to create and develop those rivalries. Multi-year game contracts will work just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 i think the prevailing belief is that the papal conference will eventually happen when the big east kicks out the basketball schools. and this temporary home in the a-10 is a perfect way to facilitate that eventual merger with those schools from the big east. had marquette and depaul had a lick of sense, they would see the inevitable as well and the one division of that future conference would already be in place. in the meantime though, there is enough midwest presense already in the a-10 with dayton and xaiver to make it a bearable situation while waiting out the next move. as much as i was an advocate of holding c-usa together, without louisville, cincy, marquette and depaul, staying there makes no sense. now if only louisville or even louisville and cincy left, then it might be a different story. no way we take the monsterous step down to play in the mvc though. i know creighton wants the conference to step up to their level of play, but now with weber gone, the fact is that siu might go back to previous levels as well. if i was creighton, i might be trying to initiate a move out of the mvc instead of trying to get slu to come down to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I think it is like a 5% chance it is that. I love Frank, I have seen him at Billikens games for years. I remember one time he was in the section next to us just watching with his family (I think he was with his family, not positive). But he wasn't even on press row or anything. But it is odd he would think we should be in the Valley over the A10. And I agree with thicks, they should rename that thing. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cujaysfan Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 i am with you Roy....i am comfortable sticking with the MVC til the new conference emerges...and hopefully it will. i don't want MVC expansion - i think that playing a home and home with all the conference members is what conference play is all about. and at this time the names floated don't do much overall for conference play - butler, w kentucky, slu etc... The SLU balloon was floated over on the MVC board - and it was summarily shot down. I think it is clear with posters here what your aspirations for the BIlls are - and that moving down to the MVC (i will admit that it is a step down in competition) is not the right move for the SLU with a new arena on the horizon and the need to keep donations up to fund a project like that. Is SLU in the Milwaukee Province for the Jesuits? just a question - it would be nice to see the schools in the same province work together - but alas - working with marquette has been "difficult" to say the least. CU wasn't able to get them to agree to series - again. i hope that this move to the A-10 doesn't temper a future deal for Bills with the midwest privates or the catholic schools overall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 i join davidnark in my belief that creighton is a natural rival of the billikens. we should be playing creighton regularly instead of playing the likes of north carolina a&t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Regarding the Valley's interest in SLU: the MVC commissioner, Doug Elgin, would give his left nut to get SLU into the Missouri Valley Conference. Re Creighton's location problem. Is there any chance at all that Creighton University could pick up and move to Nashville or Norfolk? We would love to have you in the A-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 SLU is a different type of school, putting basketball aside. Looking at the MVC two schools standout now......creighton and SIU but with the exception of Altman they have been stepping stones to other jobs for the coaches. CUSA seemed to be becoming a end destination job for many ie huggins, calipari, and crean all turing down jobs this year. I do not think the A-10 is of that caliber yet, but perhaps it will grow into it. As for the power of the A-10, people seem to mention Xavier, Dayton and Temple, but their best team over the past few years has been St. Joseph's so wee are talking 6 top hundred schools in this new conference not a bod start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 The coaches thing is a very good way to think about it, very good. (don't forget Pitino). I didn't think of it that way before. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 You elected to forget that Coach Romar signed two West Coast players in Josh Fisher and Ryan Hollins. Fisher will be one of SLU's better players this year, and Ryan Hollins, although he was released from his Billiken LOI, was good enough to average 17 minutes per game as a freshman last season for UCLA. While SLU's primary recruiting base will normally be the Midwest, SLU should recruit where ever the great players are located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I would love to see SLU play Creighton out-of-conference (alum of both schools). It's a natural--2 Jesuit, midwest, non-football schools. However, joining the Valley would put SLU in a slow slide to mediocrity. The Valley won't improve until they start kicking out teams like Drake and Northern Iowa--which is highly unlikely to happen--and exchanging them for teams like Butler / Valpo. On the topic of this thread, I vote with torch--the A10 (especially with SLU and Charlotte) is head and shoulders above the Valley and I'm mystified by people who argue otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 tseugnekillib where were you last night? i expected to see you at long acre park for the bratfest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I listened to the Press Box this morning in dismay. It blows my mind that Tim read an e-mail from Nate (hopefully not "our" Nate Latsch!), who he declared is a big SLU fan, that gave several arguments for SLU's moving the the MVC over the A-10. Say what? How can anyone who claims to be a SLU fan (i.e., they want the best for the program) want SLU to take such a step down in conference affiliation? Such a person either isn't a true Bills fan (a sympathy fan or a Mizzou fan who just wants to wile away a little extra time while eliminating the competition) or is ignorant about college hoops on a national scale. But, hey, this Nate even said that the MVC would be a better place for SLU than the Big East. "Big SLU fan" my eye! Sounds more like a Mizzou fan scared silly that SLU might be able to one day supplant Mizzou in area superiority. I was tempted to fire off an e-mail to the show myself ("Nobody asked me, but.... any idiot proclaiming that SLU should choose to join the Valley over an invitation from the A-10 is no SLU fan...."), but I doubt it's worth the time. It would just give the anti-SLU folks more platform to advance their agenda -- an agenda which is moot, because the administration, athletic department, alumni, and true backers of SLU aren't going pay any attention to their nonsense. Let them bash all they want, but in 10 years while we SLU fans are sitting up in a fabulous SLU arena Hall of Fame banquet toasting several great years of success, including three or four conference championships in conference that was ranked one of the top eight conferences in the nation and an appearance in the Final Four, the bashers will be complaining about how SLU gets more attention in the local media than Missouri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 http://teamrankings.com/ncb/8confratings.php3 according to this site, the a-10 is the 9th best conference overall per rpi ratings and the mvc is 14th. even the horizon is rated above the mvc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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