cheeseman Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 The only question I would ask is - why would Brad open himself up to such second guessing given how he passed on Ahern because Darren was better - at least in his opinion - by not playing him very much. Brad sure got caught with egg on his face - Ahern was a big reason we lost that game. The Varner thing puzzles me also - he is a mop up player and that is all - try as hard as he may - he still very limited in what he can do and produce. I said before and I will say it again - if Varner is playing big minutes we are in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Excellent point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Lattimer was a Spoon recruit. Hollins never made it to SLU because Romar left. The others are fair to mention as Romar's problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I think you are mistaken. Lattimer was Romar's first recruit (he was a last minuter I think, sort of like Brad with Drejaj). Perry, Diener, and Braun were all Spoon recruits that romar re-recruited. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Roy, you miss the point - no one is mad at Ross, all he is doing is the best he can and playing when the coach sends him in. What people are saying is coach should not be sending him in - his play continues to hurt the team particularily at critical times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Maybe you are correct - I just thought is was Spoon who brought him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 nm = no message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 We're going to lose against good teams with Ross playing that many minutes so it's not like Brad is risking anything by playing JJ/Izik instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I'm in Narks camp on thus one. Brad has chosen to play Varner because he does the little things that Brad wants done. Unfortunately little things like setting good screens have not made us a good offensive team. We are not going to become a better team if Ross continues to play. He's doing all he can. He's not going to get better. I'm sure Ross is a great kid and I wish him well,but I wish him well on the very end of the bench. At some point Brad has to give min. to potential not just how well you practice or defend off the ball. As somebody said earlier its about wins and losses not how hard or well you practice. We can not beat a Cinn. or Lou. with Ross playing 20 min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I do not see how Ross has cost us a game yet, he is not the only player who has hurt the team. That said, I sure hope Ian can take Ross's minutes. Keep JJ and IO waiting until they are ready to play the way the coach wants them to play. It is about wins and losses. I'll take 5 losses this year due to JJ not playing, IF it leads to a greater future efforts from JJ in the next 3 1/2 seasons. He has the knid of potential that could easily make up for some growing pains this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I agree he is not the only one who has hurt us ,but going 0 for 5 from the field-missing the front end of 2 straight one and ones -grabbing 1 rebound in 22 min.play sure didn't help us win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Roy said: "he [Ross] makes stuff happen." http://slubillikens.ocsn.com/sports/m-bask.../122003aaa.html Ross Vaner - 25 minutes, 2 rebounds (1 offensive, 1 defensive), 0-5 from the field (0-4 from three), 0-2 from the line. Again, did you watch a different game than me? 2 rebounds in 25 minutes from a "power forward"? That is terrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Nark, your correct....2 rebounds in 25 minutes against SMS is terrible, considering Ross got 5 rebounds in 18 minutes against a real good Georgia Tech team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Tseugnekillib, I will never understand why you defend the program and its players to the point of accepting poor results. Sure, Ross is a good guy. Most of the guys on this team are good guys. We all want them to succeed, but that doesn't mean we should accept subpar talent and performances. How do you expect for this program to get better if you always accept mediocrity? In your opinion, everyone is doing great, our staff never makes a mistake, and getting blown out to directional state schools is OK so long as we tried real hard. I am sick of having guards who can't hit outside shots, post players who can't shoot with their backs to the basket, and bench players who can't jump or move. I want all of these guys to excel, and I root for each one of them every game. Regardless, I expect more from this program. It is unaccepatable and embarassing to lose four straight games to SMS. We all have been rationalizing poor results for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 As the people here in Tampa Bay remind about my Rams VS Bucs would hold true with SLU VS SMS...they seem to have our number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Schasz, this year everyone has Tampa's number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 as much as i would love to let spoon take the fall for latimer, no that was a randy bennett "find". thus it falls under the romar era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 spoon's final recruits were mo jeffers, marque perry and the kid from gary indiana that never showed up and was later killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 in either case, romar was pretty much behind the eight ball to get anyone that late and like i said, i am betting brad would love for frericks to quit fouling, or justin to stay focused and play hard or for izik to act like he is 6'10". in the meantime, limited skills and size ross varner does as good of a job as they do. not ross' fault the others havent stepped up. like i said, the ire should be on the other 3 for forcing brad to make such a decision in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Nark, it's not about my accepting mediocrity or poor results or subpar talent. If the current Billikens were a pro team, and if I was the general manager, I would sign free agents, dip into the farm system, attempt to trade players, release players, etc. But SLU is not a pro team and we are (for a lack of a better word) stuck with the our current above-par / par / and sub-par 12 man roster of players until next April, and after then we have scholarship limitations, the killer 5/8 rule to deal with, and some academic requirements to hurdle. Getting SLU from a middle of the pack team to a front of the pack team is not going to be fixed in one month or one year. However, I believe Coach Soderberg and staff are working very hard to move us forward and I also believe the new arena will make their work a little easier. I think SLU's future is bright and I'm excited about that. In the meantime, I don't get my jockey shorts in a knot about things that can't be fixed in two days or two weeks. Sure I sleep better after a Billiken win, and the P-D is always easier to grab in the morning after a win, but I can't get overly excited about a player's performance if he is busting his butt and playing to his talent level. Thus, the issue, increasing the overall talent base. Our seniors are what they are, and I don't see much improvement coming. (imho, JF is our MVP.) Sure someone may shoot lights out one night, but none of them are going to jump higher or dribble better or significantly improve their 3pt shot over the next three months. That's not accepting mediocrity, that's acknowledging reality. I see for myself on a very regular basis how hard they are working, and trust me, an overall lack of practice effort isn't the issue. We simply need more talent and next's year recruiting class, and the development of this year's freshmen will certainly help. If we can duplicate our November 2003 recruiting efforts in November 2004, I believe SLU will be getting where we all want to be. Everything with the program isn't great, but it is what it is at the moment. As a fan, my harping, ranting, raving, digging at players, and demanding isn't going to change anything over the next three months. Don't take a low key approach for accepting mediocrity. I want to win badly, but I refuse to cheat and I understand that a good program is developed over time with great leadership. I think Soderberg and Pinkel are alike in style and drive. Now Soderberg needs to find his Brad Smith. Personally, I think our Brad Smith is currently playing for the Catholic high school in Belleville. Keep the faith David, life is short, enjoy your family and the Holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Yes ... there is something to lose ... Brad's control of the team. Everyplayer knows what is expected of him in regards to effort both in practice and in games, if Brad claims to demand your utmost effort at all times and then doesn't stand firm ... then his demands mean nothing and players pick up on that quickly. There is a big difference between working hard and "working hard". We do not have the overall talent to win with anything less than everyones absolute best effort every moment. Brad knows this and is demanding it. He is at SLU for the long haul and is building a program ... he cannot give in ... regardless of the results of any 1 or 2 games. Even regardless of who's senior season it may or may not be. Take OU and Kelvin Sampson ... I am sure everyone on this board has seen them play ... he very seldom gets Mickey D players or has players playing in the NBA ... but look at the success of his program ... it took a while and has come in steps ... he even let Ryan Humphrey leave over his unwillingness to give in. Ryan was the best big man on the team ... The program and team was and is better for Ryan leaving. My point is that we have to play a certain way and we cannot bend ... it is not a hill but a mountain we are climbing and you don't just leap to the top ... you must climb it one step at a time. (that is a quote from the infamous Jim Hoffman) Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Season stats Ross and JJ Ross JJ Minutes 177 109 Total pts 34 22 Rebounds 29 16 Blocks 1 1 Steals 5 4 As you can see the stats per minute on the floor are not all that different ... so immediately playing JJ will not have that dramatic of an effect. Maybe if he gets JJ to give his all and make whatever improvements he is looking for the difference will be greater. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 You are comparing the stats of a freshmen and a 23 year old senior. The fact that they are so close says a lot about both players in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Amen, David!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I totally agree with Nark. We have used Ross now for eight games and we are 4-4. I know that is completely acceptable to some of you as you see that as reality. Since we are 4-4 and 4 of the games that we won were as challenging as playing a blind team of midgets, why not use IO and JJ instead of Ross. Using Ross hasn't proven to win us crap, so why not try something else. I know somebody of you look forward and settle for us being a bubble team to the NIT, but I EXPECT more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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