Bay Area Billiken Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 If this is true re the 7 looks, then something is amiss at West Pine Gym. Didn't SLU learn its lesson with Shaw? SLU can't afford to let all these guys get away. There are holes right now that need to be filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I agree with your concern. I don't get it. Brad's staff passed on Ahearn after repeated looks because they determined he wasn't good enough. Meanwhile, they got all giddy over Darren Clarke based on one 40-point AAU game they watched, which happened to be the game of Darren's life. (Then again, maybe Darren does have 40+ point talent we just don't realize it because offensive skill doesn't factor into consideration in UB-Ball.) I am very, very down on Brad right now. The style of basketball I have watched over the last two weeks has been so much more enjoyable than UB-Ball. Plus, it is amazing how many small, mid-major programs can recruit and sign athletic forwards. Hopefully, Iowa State doesn't call me for a referral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I watched 4 of the Sweet 16 in their shoot-a-rounds at Oakland yesterday. I don't want to type blasphemy against the double alma mater, but I couldn't help but think the same thing re the forwards and the athletes. Memphis and UCLA are filled with athletes. It is one thing for UCLA or even a Memphis to have those types of athletes. But Bradley has some athletic bigs too. Quite frankly, if Bradley can get those types of players, SLU can and should too. But yes, none of those teams play this slowdown style. I really think it is counterproductive to having a successful program in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I agree with nark. Watching the tournament every year reinforces the point that small schools CAN recruit good athletic big men and kids that CAN shoot. Coach Grawer said that he felt mid-major schools can be and often are to focused on what a kid can't do and lose sight of what they can do when recruiting because they want the perfect fit. I think Brad may be falling into this trap because he wants the "perfect" fit for his system instead of getting kids that can just flat play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 "But yes, none of those teams play this slowdown style. I really think it is counterproductive to having a successful program in the long run." I think that is a great point. I think the slowdown style produces a decent 1-3 year spurt for random teams, but i'm having a hard time thinking off a program consistently ranked in the top 30-40 that has established itself via the slowdown style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I better be ahead of Roy. I want to coach the short fat guys, I'll recruit them also Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Brad doesn't teach the "slowdown" style. GO watch a practice and listen to him encourage them to push the ball. Listen to what he says. Do you guys think that he says he wants to push the ball in transition publically and instructs them to in practice, but then has this secret closed door meeting and tells them to slow it down or you are benched ... and also these meetings are double secret code, so you are benched if you tell anyone. We don't have the personel to push the ball ... so the players know their own level and play within it. Now why can't we recruit players that can ... I think we've begun ... but I also think we have alot more work to do. I agree that as you watch the good teams ... I am disapointed that we haven't been able to get more of the players especially inside players that can push the ball and finish. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 But Skip, there is a difference between encouraging players to push the ball and playing a style that facilitates it. Brad can encourage his players all he wants, but until he installs half-court pressure defense and allows his guards to release upcourt on opponent's shots, this team won't be able to consistently score in transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 We don't have >the personel to push the ball ... so the players know their >own level and play within it. Now why can't we recruit >players that can ... I think we've begun ... but I also >think we have alot more work to do. I agree that as you >watch the good teams ... I am disapointed that we haven't >been able to get more of the players especially inside >players that can push the ball and finish. > Whose fault is that??? 5 recruiting classes and not having the personnel to push the ball? Also, I don't really think that's the case. Polk is a perfect PG to push the up-tempo game, and Liddell, Brown and Lisch on the wings and VaShun was athletic. It came down to coaching and not wanting to push it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 VN was NOT athletic. He was probably the worst jumper on the team. He was also not in the best of shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 vashun came in overweght, and never got in shape untill the 5th last week of the season-he was the third slowest guy on the team most of the season after Husak and Drejaj whose feet never left the ground all season and who never played as well as he had the year before- he did try hard- but medical problems with his foot-remember-the coach had nothing to do with that-fear of getting stuffed kept polk and luke in check aGAINST TALLER, QUICKER ATHLETES-it wasn't coaching but it was inept recruiting Ahearn begged for a scholarship and they chose that wimpy darren clark-Brad needs to stop collecting opinions and start making his own decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 VN was hyped as "athletic" and a very good "leaper" when he came in. In fact, the intial reactions here were quite positive: http://www.billikens.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/d...pic&archive=yes Still, take VN out of the equation and you still have Polk, Liddell, Lisch and Brown, all "athletic" but all forced to play a slow down, grind it out style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 and we will get out rebounded 2-1 on the defensive boards which means put back baskets for the other team. the key isnt denial man to man/ pressure defense or releasing guards, to be able to play that style of defense and release the guards requires more than just ian trying to rebound. we need real frontcourt players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 you had me until you proclaimed vashun athletic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I agree in part to what you say. I think We could pressure the ball in the back court and gamble once in a while, but I think once the ball crosses the half court everyone needs to get back for the reasons Roy stated below. I just don't think we have the players yet to pressure that much. I also see so many times where our guys have 1-1 opportunities and hold up. I know they are not on any kind of directive to do that ... I just think they lack the confidence to take it all the way alot. DP is an example. DB will go to the basket with even the slightest chance in open court ... he just doesn't finish. TL is back ebounding alot ... and doesn't really play that attacking style one on one ... Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Did you read the entire post ... I said we ahould have the players but don't. VN athletic ... did you see any games ... he can't run. He has to be as slow as Ian. DP can out run people but when he has the space he pulls up anyway ... he seemed to have no confidence to the very end. It is UB's fault we don't have the players ... to an extent. We signed DP and DB 2 years ago ... players we all thought would be (and should be) better in a transition game ... TL and KL this year ... we need bigs ... UB's fault ... he should have been able to get a good 4 that can run and play by now. I don't care what style we play as long as we win. If we got a big Kalen Grimes type body 4 who can rebound and put the ball back in for 10- 8 per game and added a zone busting 3 to go along with KL and TL ... who would complain we aren't running. Sorry but we don't have the personel ... you can disagree but you'd be wrong. Who's fault is that ... it is UB's fault that we don't have the hooters or the 4 to be better than average in either type of game Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I don't think you watched the team much ... you have no clue as to what they were "forced" to do. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 to find a link to some posters' first impressions of him and act like those somehow justify your total mischaracterization of him as athletic. I don't think you will find a single, regular, poster on this board that believes after seeing two years of him that a good term to describe him as would be "athletic". He was a stiff and you were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Everything said about VN was true. The problem with Ahern and Clarke was that Brad did make up his own mind - it was Romar and his staff minus Brad that liked Ahern. When Romar left Brad took over and dropped Ahern for Clarke. Today's Post article about Justin Dentman said that he wanted to come to SLU so his parents could see him play but that after he went to Prep School that SLU simply never came around again. It was Romar and his staff - minus Brad - that had really connected with him. He acknowledged he did not qualify for SLU so he signed with ILState but had to go to Prep School. When he hit the recruiting market again - Romar was all over him but Brad was a no show. Justin said he was a little confused by that. Are we seeing a trend here? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Which leads to another major gripe I have with Brad. Five years, and no decent forwards. That is inexcusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I would prefer to see a more up tempo game where we can still play good D but also score more than 40-50 points. I just don't think you can attract quality D-1 kids playing boring slow ball. Time will tell if we are seeing a trend as recruiting players that can get us to the Big Dance is something Coach Soderberg takes full responsibility for...the next few days should be interesting, as the April signing period is right around the corner. We know what our team needs. Can Coach Soderberg recruit our needs for next season??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 SLU is tougher than Illinois State in basic educational requirements; if you have Dentmon who commits to Illinois State but has to go to prepschool because he can't get in and later he goes to Washington because he still can't qualify for SLU-couple that with the fact that Romar lost his chief recruiter, Cameron $ Dollar for recruiting violations his very first year at Washington and couple that fact that Romar brought us Randy Pulley who is just about as infamous as a bad juco choice at Mizzou and you have to believe Ohio State, Huggins, Calipari, Romar, all bend the rules way beyond what SLU alums and coaches are willing to allow or afford in the way of funding and you get the dilema that places SLU in the A 110 where people are upset about George Washington prep schoolers- guess what all these guys went to the NCAA this year- yes, Ohio State did have to pay $800,000 fine but no tournament sanctions- how level is that playing field? We need smart kids who can shoot straight and rebound and see the floor for an assist type pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Illinois wanted Dentman bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 >Illinois wanted Dentman bad. You might want to tell that to Justin - he apparently missed that strong interest. There was some and that was that. "He holds no grudges against Illinois or Weber, and counts several of the Illini as friends, namely freshman guard Jamar Smith, who was a teammate for two years on AAU teams." By the way, SLU's admission standards for hoops players out of HS is no different than most other schools. The only difference is they don't take non-qualifiers (which is why TL didn't come in 04-05). If you qualify under NCAA guidelines you can get into SLU for hoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 when he was being recruited and then when he signed coaches proclaimed him a being so. What happened between then and now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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