AlumniFan Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If he shoots that ball three or five feet from the basket with that guy's hand physically in his face he either makes the shot or, as flagrant as it appeared, gets two chances to win the game with free throws. Why the pass out to Danny? I know Danny has been making shots, but c'mon, this kid is suppose to be the best player on the team other than Ian. Why won't he take the shot!!!????!!!! Don't get me wrong. I think Tommie is great and am very glad he is playing for us, but WHY WON'T HE TAKE THE SHOT?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 he should've Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Because he is a freshmen. In years to come there will be NO WAY he passes up that shot. I watch Tommie and see so much of the gorgeous athleticism that Larry Hughes possessed. The biggest difference is that when Larry got in the paint he wanted to Tomahawk it down the defenses' throat, while Tommie wants to kick it out for a pretty pass. If Tommie ever develops Larry's killer attitude, watch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 David, It seems like that has been the only knock that I have been reading ever since he was in HS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 We were sitting right behind Brad and had the same view he did ... and it was right in front of us that Danny Brown lost the ball on the riser .... From my angle, it appeared that TL was surrounded .... and how he got that pass out to Brown seemed somewhat amazing. Would I rather take my chances with a two-foot shot as opposed to an 18-footer? Absolutely. But the angle we had suggested it might be blocked. Also, GeeDub has one thing we were short on ... athleticism. I recall TL being surrounded by Elliott, Williams, Mensah-Bonsu and Pinnock. I can almost guarantee you if one didn't get it, the other would. And Danny might have even been fouled given the rush the defender was coming at him with until even he saw the ball slip out ... heck, he was under enought control to get to the ball and heave a desperation shot as well. As for a foul ... fergetaboutit. Those three clowns had swallowed their whistles for calls in obvious places. And it was obvious from my vantage point that Brad Soderberg is not Bobby Knight .. or Jim Calhoun ... or Lute Olsen. When the refs come near him, they don't say "What's the problem, Coach K, did I miss something?" They say "Sit down, shut up, and keep your benchplayers seated." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 all would have taken that shot, and likely made it and got the foul call. liddell has to shoot that shot. his unselfishness is admirable, but imo, right now it is the difference between becoming one of the above. we always hear he compares himself to tracy mcgrady. mcgrady would have taken that shot. hell he probably would have dunked it on poppy. all the skill in the world doesnt mean much if he instead differs to the lesser player(s) in the crunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Larry would of been the only one to do it as a Freshman. (I know Love was a Juco, but Tommie is young) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 >Larry would of been the only one to do it as a Freshman. > >(I know Love was a Juco, but Tommie is young) Exactly! Heaping that kind of responsibility on a freshman in unfair. Tommie has been outstanding this season for a freshman. Don't blame Tommie. Blame past poor recruiting for not having a senior on the roster who we can turn to in crunch time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 if you want to use "he's only a freshman" than dont use any he's the man type phrases either. either he is or he isnt. my point is that if he wants to be the man, if he aspires to be hughes, love or perrylike in billiken lore, if he intends to make a living as an nba player, at some point he has to have the balls to be exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 if tommie didnt have the body or skills to do it, i wouldnt argue. but he has those kind of skills and talent and continuously disappears or shys away from finishing the job. sorry, i aint letting him off that easy. he is that good he just needs to carry the mental attitude with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I've never called him "the man" and I don't care about NBA aspirations, I care about the team. Comparing him or almost any college freshman to Hughes is ridiculous and unfair. Tommie is not the problem. He's part of the solution. Tommie created an open look for a teammate. That's what Tommie is best at. I wish he were surrounded by a couple better shooters/scorers. This points back to recruiting. Coach himself has taken responsibility for not currently having more skilled offensive players on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Only a freshman would kick the ball out to the three point line in a tied game with the game clock expiring. Not the greatest judgement probably but in his defense, he was surrounded by trees. Danny ought to get a "GI shower" ala A Few Good Men for not having some sort of stickum on his sweaty palms......just kidding of course.... I'm dissappointed BUT we are EXACTLY where I thought we'd be this season. We just need to take care of business at home and beat up on the hind quarters of this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrewprez Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 In hindsight we can say he should have taken that shot, but I have a feeling that Tommie wanted to put the ball in the hands of the person who was having a hot shooting night...which was definitely not him. And like others said, I'm not sure we would have gotten the call from the refs if Tommie had taken the shot and been fouled. I think it was all just strategy that didn't work in the end. I liken it to the last shot taken at the SLU vs. Iowa 2004 NIT game when Chris Sloan was coming down from the key and got triple-team then he passed it out to Drejaj on the wing for the open shot. It's easier to take an open shot any day and I think that they had the right idea but Danny just felt rushed. We shouldn't be focusing on the Danny Brown shot more than we should be focusing on the missed free throws that ended up being the difference, which has been a problem for the past few games. Those shots are fundamental and there's no way we can have a superior or even a championship team if we can't consistently make those free throws (case in point: freshman Darius Washington from Memphis missing 2 of 3 free throws last year in their last game that ended up costing them a trip to the tourney). We played an amazing game and we had GW scared. Defensively, this may have been one of the best games I've seen them play this year (especially Kevin). This game proved to me that this conference can be dominated by us in the near future. Just wait til they come here next year...we'll be ready for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm not waiting 'till they come here next year. I can't wait to get even in Cincinnati at the conference tournament. I hope we get another shot at them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Tommie is playing the same way he played in high school with similar results. I'll take that. I don't know why BRoy and Taj ever had visions of Larry Hughes in their head when he was never that type of player. He is a little better than Sammy Mejia was a freshman, though, which is pretty damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 ace i said in my first post today that imo the problem with lst nite was ian and justin and free throws. i agree liddell played well for a freshman. i thought his point guard play was much improved over the st bonnie game, he rebounded, stole balls, etc. but he has ability that no one else has to get to the rim and make plays. while it may seem unfair to compare him to hughes or even love or perry, imo when you think about raw skills, only hughes does compare. sure we all know he will be there in a couple of years, but the sooner the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 i've never said he was that type of player. i have said he had that kind of talent. i have always said that tommie was too unselfish and tended to disappear from games. but for short stretches and flashes, he could make plays that the likes of larry hughes made. that is a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 .. for example, I believed that Charles "Rickey" Cranford was the poor man's Larry Hughes. I think I got that from Spoon himself. So my visions of the incoming players are based on impressions I get from you guys as the locals. I have visions right now that Lisch is H. Waldmanlike minus the flash heavier on the defense and Obi is going to be a true four. As I said, last night was my first in-person look at these guys and I am very happy with the way the pipeline appears to be headed. Tommie's performance last night reminded me of a silky, smooth silent assassin rather than a loud, showboat, in-your-face kind of player. I just don't know how we can ask a freshman to do all the stuff he did last night in being the floor general of this team AND score. Last year's freshman class did not enamor me. Now, Danny Brown does. Added to Lisch and Liddell with hopes held out for Obi, and I'm smiling right now through that disappointing loss. The GeeDub fans that talked to me both inside the building and out, had high praise for our guys. Now, that is very easy to do if you remain on the winning end of the scoreboard and that is what happened. But i don't think anyone walked out of there last night and wasn't at least entertaining the though that "I don't want to see those guys again any time soon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 "I have visions right now that Lisch is H. Waldmanlike minus the flash heavier on the defense and Obi is going to be a true four." Lisch is a scorer who is trying to figure out how to get his points at the college level. Waldman was a creator who could shoot. Obi, assuming he ever gets healthy, will take quite a few jumpers when he plays for us because that's a strength of his game. He does at least have some post up moves to keep defenses honest. Just don't want you to be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrivener Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 ...a friend of mine suggested that it was because of Danny's "Jesuit spirit of detachment." I guess we Billiken fans have to laugh...to keep from crying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 is hard to fathom. After thirty plus years of association with this program and I'm still alive, hell .. what's a little disappointment? Someone on here does talk about how tough it is to be a Billiken fan. I'll live. Someone around here today asked if we had ever been to the NCAA tournament? I answered "Sure ... one-two-three-four times." Four times in thirty years? This year it'll be thirty-one. That a 12.9% percentage. So I'm shooting just as well as some of our kids are. Call me shocked!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecrewwebmaster Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Tommie didnt take that shot because he had been called on charges twice previously in situations like that...that and Danny was WIDE open and had been hot all night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaleJarr Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 but c'mon, this kid is suppose to be the best player on the team other than Ian. Why won't he take the shot!!!????!!!! Seeing the time this message was posted I won't get too upset. It came right after the game was decided, frankly I felt the same way. When Tommie made his move towards the basket I was hoping he went in for the dunk if nothing else he gets fouled and goes to the line. These are the same maddening decisions he made in high school. I used to blame his high school coaches, now I see the problem lies in Tommie.To whom much is given, much is required. I thought I beat this qoute in his head. As a coach I would have pulled him for the OT session. I would have made the point to Tommie that if he didn't want to factor into the game's outcome he could watch from the bench with the other role players. Tommie takes 17 shots and misses 12. If the misses were from drives to the basket I could live with them, however these were shots taken half-hearted from the perimeter. When Tommie penetrates and elevates he is going at max effort, when he shoots outside of the paint he doesn't elevate. He has never been a good jumpshooter when he settles for what the opposition gives him. If I can see this surely the coaches can. The coaches have to take a firm stance with Tommie. Make him accountable for his play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 >Tommie didnt take that shot because he had been called on >charges twice previously in situations like that...that and >Danny was WIDE open and had been hot all night. Plus there was the goaltend non-call on a Tommie shot late in regulation as well. I don't fault Tommie for passing up that shot ... but I really wish he would have taken it and let the chips fall where they may. I was really disappointed last night but today, on reflection, I see a young team that took a deep veteran laden team to OT on their home court. Yeah, we have all had enough of moral victories but our Bills are maturing and getting better as the season progresses. I was proud that the kids did not panic after they gave up the lead in the 2nd half after being up 9. They stayed in the game. The emergence of Danny Brown in a big game was huge. His combination of athleticism and perimeter shooting gives our team a threat on the wing. He reminds me of Jason Edwin on the offensive end but he defends (where Jason did not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Damn, I am glad you are not my uncle. That is tough love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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