Majerus Magic Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Overall I thought the day went pretty well. Two people that I were really impressed with were Webster's Justin Taylor, and Borgia's Alex Moosmann. I thought they both played excellent games and I'm pretty sure I watched Taylor's body jump outa the gym. I know we have all of our guards for next year, but would have either of these guys been a better fit then Dustin??? Also, I didn't see Stokes' game, so I don't know how he did, can anyone tell me? During the Vashon game, I thought I saw a dog run off the court with his tail between his legs, but it just turned out to be Leon Powell. Hey Vtime, when is Powell gonna step it up against real competition and show everyone what he's made of? Lucas O'Rear played a nice game, but he is a one man team. He has absolutely no one else on his team, and I felt sorry for him because no one on his team looked like they had ever seen a press before. I think Lucas had around 24 points, but he didn't seem that impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Mooseman is already signed to Miami of OH, and the Webster kid is just a Soph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Latsch Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 SLU looked at Alex Moosmann, though I'm not sure how serious the Billikens were. He's a nice player, but I don't know how well he would fit in with SLU's overcrowded backcourt. Justin Taylor from Webster Groves is a senior, not sophomore. Drew Hanlen, the point guard, is a sophomore. Taylor is the 6-foot shooting guard. He can really shoot (I saw him make six 3's in one quarter last year) and really jump. He'll play somewhere next year, but it's probably going to be at a JUCO. He's got a lot of talent, but schools will overlook him because he's a 6-foot shooting guard. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I would like for Powell to step up against some real competition and he has. The two games in which people say he has folded have been against consensus national top 10 big men. He's not even really a big man. What do you want him to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Some have argued over the span of time immortal, that the cream always rises to the top. Now you are saying, in a roundabout way of course, that Leon may not be the cream. That he can't hack it against top 10 playrs? Is that what you're saying. V ... baby ..... boobala .... this does not compute. Leon's great, except against good talent????? In high school, good talent is hard to come by night in and night out ... or so I'm told. Yet, at every level one goes up, the talent gets better and better. I don't see this as such a ringing endorsement. Maybe that's it ... that Vashon has enough talent to walk through the state of Missouri each and every year. Collectively, they are unmatchable. And we all know that Missouri ain't exactly New York or Illinois. But then they separate and go off individually to college and post less-than-impressive numbers. Hmmmm. Could be something to that .... and without Irons or other "family" there they achieve less than expected. What do you think? Possible? There has got to be some reason that almost, to a man, Vashon has no "stars" out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 >Some have argued over the span of time immortal, that the >cream always rises to the top. Now you are saying, in a >roundabout way of course, that Leon may not be the cream. >That he can't hack it against top 10 playrs? Is that what >you're saying. > >V ... baby ..... boobala .... this does not compute. Leon's >great, except against good talent????? In high school, good >talent is hard to come by night in and night out ... or so >I'm told. Yet, at every level one goes up, the talent gets >better and better. I don't see this as such a ringing >endorsement. > >Maybe that's it ... that Vashon has enough talent to walk >through the state of Missouri each and every year. >Collectively, they are unmatchable. And we all know that >Missouri ain't exactly New York or Illinois. But then they >separate and go off individually to college and post >less-than-impressive numbers. Hmmmm. Could be something to >that .... and without Irons or other "family" there they >achieve less than expected. What do you think? Possible? > >There has got to be some reason that almost, to a man, >Vashon has no "stars" out there. You say they have enough to walk through missouri every year, but isnt that what they are supposed to do. And yes Powell playng out of position struggles against consensus top 10 bigs. And they can compete for a state title in New York. They lost by 3 to Thaddeus Young's team. They beat Niagara last year. Who do they have to beat to show they ca compete with anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big al Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I was really disappointed in the talent level of the shootout...It is nothing like it was 15 years ago...Also, all some of the teams do is throw up threes with no teamwork...Also, I watched O'Rear and all I saw was a kid who when he received the ball down low powered up and scored because he is very strong and bigger than most...When he has to compete against others his size I have to wonder about his potential...He showed very little from 8 feet and out...Also the prices at the concession stands are out of line...How can H.S. kids afford these prices...Lastly, we had to wait 50 minutes in the lobby to go through the security check...Two people near me were refused because they had 1" long finger nail type instruments...It was awful...I have been going to this event since it started but will think a long time before I go next year...My senior buddies at the game feel the same way...I appears to be a money oriented affair now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 vtime, you are missing the point. the vast majority of this board couldnt care less about vashon. we dont care if they are ranked first in america or just the phl. what we care about are the individual players that play for vashon. that is what taj and the rest of us are asking. why no more success stories than say belleville east or jennings in the last 10 years? was it academics? (and dont tell us about vashon gpa's. vashon's gpa's have not meant much when they cant pass the ACT and/or the SAT) was it character problems? why have none of these stars for the most part not went on to bigger and better things? Slu apparently took the pick of the litter over the last few seasons with dwayne polk, thank brad for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 .... you come on here and advocate giving scholarships to just about every high school player on the north side. The very guy you sign in with in your profile .... Leon Powell .... can't play against top competition. I interpretted that as it is and asked you if that is what you are indeed saying. No answer. Vashon seems to be a sum of its total parts. I don't know if Floyd offers some wolverine kool-aid and they all sing Kumbaya after practice but, to almost a man, they exit the Vashon confines and become no names. I don't get it. I am hoping someone close to the program or more familiar with it can offer an answer why. And I don't know if I second broy's claim on DP as the cream of the crop. I sure hope so .... but let's just say that there's a way to go until the final verdict is in on that. And I'm not tlaking recent ... this trend goes back to Ramon Trice, Anthony Jones and so on. I am puzzled, not combative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 >.... you come on here and advocate giving scholarships to >just about every high school player on the north side. The >very guy you sign in with in your profile .... Leon Powell >.... can't play against top competition. I interpretted >that as it is and asked you if that is what you are indeed >saying. No answer. Vashon seems to be a sum of its total >parts. I don't know if Floyd offers some wolverine kool-aid >and they all sing Kumbaya after practice but, to almost a >man, they exit the Vashon confines and become no names. I >don't get it. I am hoping someone close to the program or >more familiar with it can offer an answer why. > >And I don't know if I second broy's claim on DP as the cream >of the crop. I sure hope so .... but let's just say that >there's a way to go until the final verdict is in on that. >And I'm not tlaking recent ... this trend goes back to Ramon >Trice, Anthony Jones and so on. I am puzzled, not >combative. I think by cream of the crop he meant academically and athletically. Polk was an honor student at Vashon and All-Metro player of the year. And I couldnt be happier with Brad's ability to recruit the area. 4 guys from the 2004 First Team All-Metro is an outstanding accomplishment. Could've gotten all 5, but maybe its for the best if Price would choose Western Illinois over SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 The point was nailed on the head. This is a collegiate basketball board, not a high school board. Therefore, nobody really cares who wins the state championship or who has the best team in the area on this board or who can beat who. that's what stltoday.prepsports or mosports.com is for. This board and other college basketball boards concentrate on the players as individuals and how they would fit with the COLLEGE team. That's why we talk about the players as they stand on their own. A player that comes out of Vashon (any player) is going to have a great career won-loss record, several state championships and a national ranking on the resume. that's awesome. unfortunately, that hasn't translated into too much success at the next level, for whatever reason. Brian Turner played at beaumont and got whipped by Vashon his whole career, but he enjoyed a better college career at siuc than any vashon player during his era. jimmy had one of the most celebrated careers in the history of missouri hoops and so far, his college career has been below average. we all hope dwayne can change that trend. other than his lack of perimeter shooting, i think he is doing a good job. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Don't get me wrong .. I am very GLAD to have DP and agree on your assessment up to and including the outside shooting stuff. Again, I thought he played a very heady game at Chapel Hill the other night and liked what I saw. As our PG, I'd like to see him hit a few shots more to keep the defense honest and on him so he can blow on by a few more times and either hit the layup or runner or the open man for an uncontested shot. And make free throws automtically down the stretch so that if and when we are running the clock out at the end of a win, he's handling the ball and making free throws. Vtimes answer above was accepted but it still doesn't get down to the basic question. Maybe you know ... you seem quite well connected to the local scene. What is it? Why does Vashon dominate as a team, yet fail miserably at the next level? Am I close? Does the sum of its parts make a better whole and then, individually, comes the crash and burn? Does the athletic talent equalize at the next level? I keep trying to remember the last really, really great Vashon-ite and, okay I'm probably not the best and go by past biases, but the best I can do is Bonner. What's that ... over 20 years ago? And given the fact that Vashon has dominated the St. Louis city and state basketball scene for what seems like forever, is there not a trend here that suggests a coach might want to avoid takign a flyer on these kids at their next level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Taj, as someone posted a day or two ago---this is not a Vashon Message Board and frankly I could give a rat's a$$ about questions regarding the "V" factory. I'm more concerned about the fact you mentioned regarding DP not being a reliable free throw shooter, something you MUST have in your PG. At the end of a close game I'd go with DB, TL, KL and LM with IV or JJ as the "big". Too early to tell for sure but my first impression is that DP is better than last year at the FT line, but still not who I want there in the final few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 ... mr. b. From now on, if I have anything on the V subject, I'll move it over to the other board. In closing, it is an interesting issue to ponder, don't you think (no answer needed)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 You still want your best ball handler in the game and that is DP - his ft shooting is better but there is always room for improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 because slu is rumored to be looking to continue to recruit future vashon players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Dwayne is 6-8 from the line this year for 75%. Not bad. The team is shooting 74% which is excellent for a team Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUMS81 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 We don't judge college programs based upon the players who go on the the NBA. In the same way, we should not judge Vashon (or any other high school program) based on the college careers of their graduates. The fact that Vashon is competitive on a regional (and on occasion, national) level year in and year out probably reflects the quality and depth of the players, and the level of coaching they receive. Are we saying that Vashon is less of a program because of a lack of consensus all-stars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I don't know .. that's why I asked. When you hear of grat programs, they are great basd on what they accomplished. The UCLA of the 60's and early 70's. Duke now. UConn has current high marks. Maryland. Others see their luster wane .... St. Louis U in soccer. UCLA to a degree. The most recent past of the Notre Dame football program. And how or why do these schools get that ... through winning. The high school level would be the same. Oak Hill Academy. Hargrave. St. Anthony's in New Jersey. The old Dematha. Go ahead and throw in Vashon. State titles, regional titles and now, what with USA Today, mythical national titles. It may be unfair to then continue to grade the schools, the high schools, on kids going to the pros ..oaky I'll agree with that one. But you have to admit that outside of national titles, the colleges get graded on who and how many kids go on to the pros. There is a disconnect surrounding Duke .... I have heard that if its national titles you want, go to Duke. If its the pros you want, go to Carolina. So fairly or unfairly, programs do get judged by who moves on to the next level. If you agree with the argument to date, then you have to ask, what's the problem with Vashon? And if you ask that question, you have to ask "Do we want to take a chance on a Vashon kid and give them a scholarship/" Because, to date, the norm is that its a wasted scholarship at best for what reasons I don't know. Sorry mr. b .... I went with broy's response on this. Maybe you don't read it. I'm moving over to the "Vashon" thread I'm starting on the other board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 i think the high school that had the most guys in division 1 from this area last year was Jennings. They had Mike English (UMKC), Travis Wallace (Illinois State), Ed Glass (Ole Miss), and Darren Brooks (SIUC). What does that say about Jennings. As for Vashon, the system teaches you to be unselfish almost to a fault, so a lot of Vashon guys have trouble getting their own offense at the next level, because they are depending on a system that always let them get their shots. Secondly, the guys buy in to the concept of winning. They just want to play basketball and as long as they are winning, they are content to not take shots. Lastly, a lot the guys dont qualify. The kids who know they will play college basketball if they qualify, must be smart enough to do so. Irons has study hall, but he cant make them do the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Wasn't Justin Love basically a 6-0 shooting guard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Love was about 6'3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 >He's not even really a big man. What do you want >him to do? Im glad you finally said this. If he is not a big man, then why would be interested in him. We need a big bodied PF for the next couple of years. Not another tweener, at 6'6 or 6'7 or whatever he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Chris Sloan was a pretty good tweener for SLU. You say SLU needs a big bodied guy and I agree, but you also need one of those freak athlete type forwards that can help contain guys like Sensely and the 6'6 kid from UWM. Powell in my opinion fits that mold. The games SLU lost they were outrebounded because they were outclassed athletically, more than size wise. And we didnt make shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 "Im glad you finally said this. If he is not a big man, then why would be interested in him. We need a big bodied PF for the next couple of years. Not another tweener, at 6'6 or 6'7" Because the only thing that is making Powell a tweener is his strength, not his height. If you're 6'7 with the wingspan of a 7 footer, can post up, shoot mid-range jumpers and jump out of the gym, you're a high major player. Once Powell gets on a college weight program and puts on 15 lb, he's going to be a nightmare to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.