billiken_roy Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 or there is little else to choose from. it isnt like emeka okafor is sitting on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleacherBum593 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 If you don't think Ian had a "good" game last night, then you, like the officials, missed one heck of an effort on the defensive end by Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 I agree with Roy that Ian is neither good and certainly not great. But, who are we comparing him to? I think we all want more of him and other players. I think we would all love to have a big athletic big man who could dominate the middle. But, we don't. I don't think any of our expectations are low. In fact, I've always been one to say that if we do not make the tourney consistently, we are not reaching our goal. A few years ago, I was berated for stating that. Ian is not where I want him to be and in fact, I wish we had such high caliber players, that Ian would be playing at McKendree, but we don't. So, in playing with the hand we are dealt as fans, Ian started out slow and is making some improvement. If he continues to do so, he will be a decent player for us. Roy, you said, "hopefully this will inspire him to finally devote himself to fitness and strength". I've been one to jump on our players for being soft and I tend to see guys on the smaller side even when others think they are big and athletic. But, this statement makes Ian sound like a big lazy oaf. Not to mention, it's specualtion. What makes you think he has absolutely no devotion to fitness and strength? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 What does out record have to do with your jaded view of Ian? No one is happy with our poor record to date. Everyone but you is happy with Ian's performance of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Roy, you are making me laugh with your Ian harangue! Ian will never be mistaken for Clyde Drexler,as he follows the classic mold of a Clydesdale draft horse. However, I have seen centers that could never dream of dunking the ball, and were stellar rebounders, because they knew how to eat space and body people with their legs and butt. On defense, a rebound taken above the square means you are an athletic freak, but a rebound snared at five feet means you had superior defensive positioning to compensate for lack of hops. Ian will continue to grow into his body, and he will also suceed in turning pounds into pounds of muscle over the next two years. Rather than pounding Ian at all times, maybe you can divert some attention to ripping JJ and VN into hammering themselves into the sleek PFs they were recruited to be. They are the ones with the monopoly and the hops and tools to do want you desire. Did you get a chance to see Kevin Saturday night at Belleville, and how did he do? T hanks for any info.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Then Chris Sloan was not a good player also ... unless Chris was surrounded by 4 very good players we were not going to be a top 25 team with him as a starter either. If Ian was surrounded by 4 very good players we would have the same opportunity to be a top 25 program as we would with Chris. Yet you consistently sang the praises of Chris Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 you people are missing my point. people are raving about ian. i am saying there is nothing to rave about. he is a below average center that when he has games that should be average numbers everyone gets excited about. as to the chris sloan shot. chris sloan did his job and worked hard all the time became the best player he could be and by most accounts overachieved playing power forward when he should have been a wing but the team needed a power forward. if ian exhibited half of the work ethic and drive that chris sloan had to go along with his physical dimensions he might actually be a good player. i hope he develops into a chris sloan like player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 tonka said, "What makes you think he has absolutely no devotion to fitness and strength? Just curious." because after 18 months as a saint louis university scholarshipped athlete with the rec center at his disposal and a strength and conditioning coach, there is no marked improvement in his body. i just find that hard to believe. imo, he could have accomplished more than that visually with 40 pushups a nite and going on a good diet in less than 4 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 No one has said anything about Newbourne - I thought that he played a solid game - 5 pts, 5 reb and very good defense in limited minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alonzo P Hawk Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 i loved it when the entire crowd took a breath in when we saw that pass, but somehow, someway, ian was able to pull that baby in, and then maneuver and take it up and in for the score. that was sweet. ------------------------------------------------------------ *Official Billikens.com sponsor of Mike Beczkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I think Ian was the best center on the team when we had Tom. I think Ian can get drafted in the NBA right now, if he does nothing but get a few shots, because of his size and his POTENTIAL!!. That's what u're missing, his potential he's what 19 and a sophomore and is playing better than the senior did at all this year. So he deserves credit, but u're not the only one who harps on the negative of a player, I feel that Billikan does the same thing, mostly points out the negative and doesn't give much props to Reg because of me. So that's like the pot calling the kettle Black. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of a player, I don't remember anything derrogatory being said about Ian, so it's all good Roy, Just like I don't remember anything derrogatory being said about Reg, I don't agree with your synopsis of Ian as a player and think, it will change as he improves. I don't know the school u referenced but doesn't sound flattering from all the feed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I disagree - he's no longer the "Big Fat Greek Center" that he was last year. He's slimmed down considerably - 25-30 pounds from what I've heard, and I would guess that he is stronger now than he was as a freshman. He'll only get stronger and better conditioned as time goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 imo, 25-30 lbs on 5'9" billiken roy is "considerable". 25-30 lbs on 7 foot ian vouyoukas is not unless it is accompanied with significant additional inches on his chest and shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Has Ian been spending too much time at the local Mickey D's? Those Big Macs will wreak havoc on any weight reduction program. For the record, I have now lost over 85 lbs on my weight reduction program in just over a year...it's maintenace from this point forward. My friends tell me that I look like a different person, and I sure feel like one. It can be done with discipline and an exercise program...I don't doubt young Ian has the exercise part down without a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Actually Ian did drop some pounds and he has to lose the weight first before it turns into muscle, if that's what u're looking for, but Tom wasn't in shape either. This is ridiculous anyway, u don't have to like him, I just don't like assumptions, I know Ian works hard, he is one of the few who does work out extra with Reg, Anthony and Izik, so it's not true that he isn't trying. That's all he can do is try anyway, he's putting forth effort, he's not complaining of injuries and he has the will and the skill to get better. What center have we had that in the last few years that emobodied all of those qualities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 >Actually Ian did drop some pounds and he has to lose the >weight first before it turns into muscle, if that's what >u're looking for, but Tom wasn't in shape either. This is >ridiculous anyway, u don't have to like him, I just don't >like assumptions, I know Ian works hard, he is one of the >few who does work out extra with Reg, Anthony and Izik, so >it's not true that he isn't trying. That's all he can do is >try anyway, he's putting forth effort, he's not complaining >of injuries and he has the will and the skill to get better. >What center have we had that in the last few years that >emobodied all of those qualities? Over the last ten years, we've had some lightweights like Luchtefeld and Barentine play center. Ian is already a major upgrade over some of the players we've had there and he's showing improvement. He's got good hands. I'd just like to see improved footwork and a little bit of a mean streak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I don't think anyone is raving about Ian ... I won't speak for anyone else but what I am saying is I think he has done well for this stage in his career ... he is averaging 8 boards a game over the last 6 games ... any way you look at it that is good. I have yet to say anything even slightly positive about his offense ... I have always said he needs work on his offense. I would not want Ian as my starting center as he is playing right now ... I would want more offense and more aggressiveness ... but again he wasn't suppossed to even be starting until next year ... if he makes the same improvement on his offense that he has on his positioning and rebounding than next year I expect better, and I'd bet we get it. As with Chris ... I was just harrassing you, I thought you would have known that. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 as rich told you, i havent been totally happy with our center position for awhile. that said, it is my understanding that kenny brown left high school very much overweight and relatively weak. he was not when he came in as a junior. while tom frericks isnt going to win mr universe anytime soon, he does appear to have more strength than ian. i understand that in both cases they were juniors when they got to slu. and as i try to qualify with my statements every time we discuss ian vouyoukas, i hope by the time ian is a junior he too will be much better not only as a basketball player but fitnesswise. all i am saying is that ian is not at a level yet i would be shelling out "good" and "great" on an everyday basis. those of you satisfied with where he is and what he does on the court need not complain about our 5-12 record either. and before anyone jumps on that statement, ian isnt the only reason we are 5-12, but he is part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 ace said, "Over the last ten years, we've had some lightweights like Luchtefeld and Barentine play center. Ian is already a major upgrade over some of the players we've had there and he's showing improvement. He's got good hands. I'd just like to see improved footwork and a little bit of a mean streak." i agree with ace. we have had worse. in fact i feel that only kenny brown and frericks (when healthy) were better as center since jamal johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 "those of you satisfied with where he is" You're setting up a straw man with this statement Roy but it should be good for another 10 replies ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 to keep the discussion going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 if I had a dime for every guy I saw at the gym who worked out a lot and there physique changed little to none over the course of years, I would be a gazillionaire! Maybe he hit the weights, just not seeing the improvements! Give him to me for a summer, he will come back looking much better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 and if i had a dime for every guy that said he was working out and he was cheating himself in his routine and faithfulness to the plan and diet while saying i'm working out", i'd be a gazillionaire as well. i aint buying. however, i do believe that if you or anyone else with half a clue about fitness and diet took a guy with the drive to succeed could change him over a summer. our own schasz is proof of what one can do to their body with resolve and faithfulness to the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 it not often cheating though and lack of effort. I used to have similar views, but take it from a gym rat like myself, there's more to it than that. I think it's lack of education and often lack of know how. Everybody has a different body and while hard work and commitment will net results, I have seen cases where results were halted because the lack of knowledge and the "how to" to get where the person needs to be once there. I don't mean to appear argumentative, and I do agree with a lot of your assessment on Ian, but I also think you speculate some to make some of the comments you do about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Roy ...you couldn't add 25 lbs of musscle in 18 months without being on the roids ... Ian has worked out and looks better ... I think you overestimate what a person can do in the gym. Did you see Kevin Bookout last night? Think he is soft? He isn't cut at all ... you would think after three years in the gym he would have some definition ... wouldn't you? Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.