billiken_roy Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 fyi, I received the following response to my e-mail to mr starks yesterday where i questioned why no story yesterday in the Post: "Roy: Thanks for your note about the SLU coverage in Wednesday's paper. We have made the decision to scale back coverage of SLU basketball, at least in terms of game advances, partly because of their record and partly due to the level of interest among our readers. But that does not mean that we are not aggressively covering the basketball program. We will still cover all games, though there will be a few selected road trips that we will use freelance reporters, and will continue to do features on the team, as warranted. As to your point that the newspapers' coverage contributes to fan attendance, I would disagree. It is natural for any publication to scale back some coverage of a team that is having a poor season. Larry Starks" of course i have already sent him a reply asking why a losing season is a reason to "scale back" coverage? i asked if in reality it wouldnt be a reason to actually investigate and report on the state of the basketball programs at slu. find out what happened, what is being done, nose around about recruiting, etc. i pointed out that while attendance is down, our message board is as active as ever and in reality the fact that just 5-10 years ago, the billikens were top 10 in the nation in attendance, thus there is a sleeping audience that wants to know. everyone needs to drop larry a note imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Come on, Roy. I thought you were a capitalist but it doesn't sound like you understand capitalism. The post-dispatch is a for-profit entity. It would put Kirkwood's J.V. girl's softball team on the front page of the sports page everyday if it would sell more papers. When a team loses, most fans lose interest. That's good thing. SLU basketball should fall off the map because of this season - that will remind the coaches, the players and the athletic department of how unacceptable these types of seasons are. If people want to see a bunch of jokers play, they can watch an intramural game. 4-12 is a joke and doesn't deserve coverage - but more importantly, from a profit perspective, is completely uninteresting to all but the most die-hard fans. >fyi, I received the following response to my e-mail to mr >starks yesterday where i questioned why no story yesterday >in the Post: > >"Roy: > >Thanks for your note about the SLU coverage in Wednesday's >paper. > >We have made the decision to scale back coverage of SLU >basketball, at least in terms of game advances, partly >because of their record and partly due to the level of >interest among our readers. But that does not mean that we >are not aggressively covering the basketball program. We >will still cover all games, though there will be a few >selected road trips that we will use freelance reporters, >and will continue to do features on the team, as warranted. > >As to your point that the newspapers' coverage contributes >to fan attendance, I would disagree. It is natural for any >publication to scale back some coverage of a team that is >having a poor season. > > >Larry Starks" > >of course i have already sent him a reply asking why a >losing season is a reason to "scale back" coverage? i asked >if in reality it wouldnt be a reason to actually investigate >and report on the state of the basketball programs at slu. >find out what happened, what is being done, nose around >about recruiting, etc. i pointed out that while attendance >is down, our message board is as active as ever and in >reality the fact that just 5-10 years ago, the billikens >were top 10 in the nation in attendance, thus there is a >sleeping audience that wants to know. > >everyone needs to drop larry a note imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 how can you say there isnt a story there? the fact that the team was top 10 in attendance shows there is a sleeping audience that is probably mad as hell. if i was a casual fan, i would rather read investigative reports on the state of the billiken programs than long articles about high school fitness trainers. but if you want to read about hammer bodies. go for it buddy. good to see you still hate everyone. your life must be joyous. i picture you as a crabby tony randall. say hello to your twin ace for me when you see him next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I don't know. This is kinda of in a gray area. I consider myself as much a fan of the Billikens as anybody else on this board. I listen to every game and check this board countless times a day. But when we've been losing these games, it's been really tough to read the post-game write ups. I've actually not even read several of them just because it was depressing. Granted, it's not the same as pregame writeups, but if even the biggest fan can't read them, I'm sure the casual fan isn't paying much attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Good morning! I don't understand that attack - sleep well tonight though because I don't hate you. Investigative Report: Why can't a small school with an urban campus, inadequate work-out and practice facilities, a high proportion of commuting students, that does not offer athlete-friendly majors and whose fan base consists primarily of middle-aged overweight men recruit top level division 1 talent? That would be a hell of a series of articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I have no inside scoop on this, since I don't interact with the sports folks. However, speaking merely as a Billiken fan with the advantage of being able to glance through the story archives, I can't say that I can discern any diminished coverage of Illinois football throughout the course of its season this past year. Although I didn't research this with absolute precision, it appears that the Illini beat writer wrote previews, game stories and sidebars for each of their games last year. The main observation I've developed of our practices throughout the paper is that we don't do a very good job of telling readers and potential readers what we're trying to do. For example, we covered the national figure skating championships with a staff writer last week. Anecdotal evidence seems to point to the fact that there's a fairly large fan base for sports outside of the traditional major-coverage areas, such as figure skating, NASCAR, etc. But I'm not sure how people who wouldn't be reading the Post anyway would ever have known that the figure-skating stories are there. Most folks around here are assuming we'll have new owners within the next couple of months, so it wil be interesting to see if the story-selection or promotional philosophies change very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 >how can you say there isnt a story there? the fact that the >team was top 10 in attendance shows there is a sleeping >audience that is probably mad as hell. if i was a casual >fan, i would rather read investigative reports on the state >of the billiken programs than long articles about high >school fitness trainers. but if you want to read about >hammer bodies. go for it buddy. > >good to see you still hate everyone. your life must be >joyous. > >i picture you as a crabby tony randall. say hello to your >twin ace for me when you see him next. Roy, you are a jack a$$ and you continue to make a fool out of yourself. Just because we've had some disagreements on the "offseason" board, why do you now feel compelled to drag me into your pi$$ing match with NYBill on this board? Drop the conspiracy thoery pal. NYBill is not my alias. In fact, for the record, I completely disagree with him on this issue. I don't think the P-D should change their pre-game coverage of the team just because we're having a crappy season. If anything Roy, I've gone easy on you for pontificating your strange conspiracy theories, but now you've crossed the line. If you had any honor, you would apologize. I thought the whole point of having the other board, was to keep non-basketball stuff off this board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 For someone who once styled himself as "the detective" You sure seem to be a lttle slow on the uptake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 If Gonzaga can do all the stuff you mentioned, so can SLU. The nuances of your satirical suggestion indicate you think SLU can't get it done, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Yeah, I guess your middle quote sums it up pretty well. You're wise for someone who listens to eminem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Not surprised at all by the response that you received from the hack at the P-D, and I would not expect them to change this if a few fans complain. Frankly, it isn't any better in other cities. USF is covered but not in the same terms as Florida or Florida State. I get the St. Pete Times Forum delivered and they did do an article yesterday, but it was about a player on Memphis who was USF's opponent last night. Robert McCullum does have a weekly TV show, but I don't recall seeing too many of the USF games on TV of any kind. I think the cure all for our SLU Billikens is to win and put an exciting product on the floor. Frankly, the casual fans in St. Louis just aren't going to come to the games until the team gives them a reason to come. IMO other than the Cardinals St. Louis fans aren't any different than many cities. They spend their discretionary sports/entertainment dollars on winning/exciting teams. Put a Top 20-25 team on the court and the casual will come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 nybill said, "Investigative Report: Why can't a small school with an urban campus, inadequate work-out and practice facilities, a high proportion of commuting students, that does not offer athlete-friendly majors and whose fan base consists primarily of middle-aged overweight men recruit top level division 1 talent?" small school with an urban campus - show the other schools with similar geography and layout and discuss the success or lack of it that they have had. inadequate workout and practice facility discuss the facilities of other schools and the success they have or have not had what schools student demographic actually comprises of and find out from the typical slu students why that affects their likeliness of attending a slu basketball game and what other factors contribute to the students attendance. detail the academic requirements of saint louis university, how that relates to our athletes and how that affects our ability to effectively recruit. who are the slu fans and boosters, how do they feel about the changes in personnel over the last 10 years and how has it affected their support (both financially and spirit) in that time frame. i.e. nybill, you just gave the post 5 subjects for stories that imo would be very interesting reads. at least compared to ice skating and high school fitness instructors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 if no one gives them feedback, you are correct it wont change. however, a few pointed e-mails carry weight. remember, last year when the rumor was that stu was being taken off as our beat writer? we flooded starks with e-mails, and stu stayed. we can at least make an impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 It may be very interesting to you - and I might scan it - but I don't think most people would read it. It's just not that interesting to most readers. As to Thicks' post - I'm not saying SLU can't overcome those things. Marquette has, Georgetown did (although they've fallen back some recently), I'm sure others have also. But until we do it consistently, there's not going to be much interest in the program. >nybill said, > >"Investigative Report: >Why can't a small school with an urban campus, inadequate >work-out and practice facilities, a high proportion of >commuting students, that does not offer athlete-friendly >majors and whose fan base consists primarily of middle-aged >overweight men recruit top level division 1 talent?" > >small school with an urban campus - show the other schools >with similar geography and layout and discuss the success or >lack of it that they have had. > >inadequate workout and practice facility discuss the >facilities of other schools and the success they have or >have not had > >what schools student demographic actually comprises of and >find out from the typical slu students why that affects >their likeliness of attending a slu basketball game and what >other factors contribute to the students attendance. > >detail the academic requirements of saint louis university, >how that relates to our athletes and how that affects our >ability to effectively recruit. > >who are the slu fans and boosters, how do they feel about >the changes in personnel over the last 10 years and how has >it affected their support (both financially and spirit) in >that time frame. > >i.e. nybill, you just gave the post 5 subjects for stories >that imo would be very interesting reads. at least compared >to ice skating and high school fitness instructors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 the sports editor has to fill the sections with something. so you are saying the ice skating or fitness trainer articles would be better? whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Roy, I couldn't agree with you more. We all need to send e-mails to Starks (by the way, just curious, did he ever write anything in the sports section?) and also to his bosses. I did that yesterday, and it is interesting that you, a non-subscriber, got a reply while I haven't. I also found it interesting that I was unable to find the names of the editor and publisher of the PD in the paper and, of course, also unable to find their e-mail addresses in the PD web site. I guess if I put out a product as poor as this paper I wouldn't want my name associated with it. Email addreses for the edit. and publ. are as follows: [email protected] and [email protected]. (per a nightbeat writer) I wrote, "as a long time subsc. u need to know that I am about ready to pull the plug on my subsc., and while I am just one reader I know of others who are also upset. I know that the Billikens are not having a very good yea, but they are the S. L. team and they are Div. 1, playing in an excellent conf. To give this local team the same amount of space as off-track betting/results should be an embarassment to anyone associated with the Post and especially its' spts. dept.. I am not complaining that the Bills didn't get as much coverage as Mizzou, but rather, that SLU didn't even get an article (Don't try to pass off the box as an artticle) Drop back and look at the weekday Spts. sections recently and I hope you are not confusing them with those of a major metro paper. I understand that the PD is for sale, but as a businessman I also understand that a substandard product causing a declining subscriber base is not the way to improve shareowner value Please improve the product!" Come on Bills fans, let them know that their conscious decision to scale way back on SLU basketball is NOT the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUWX Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 >>"Frankly, it isn't any better in other cities." I agree to a point. UMKC always gets fair coverage in the Star. Lately, though, they are the darlings of the KC Media. Ahh, what winning can do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 The PD is talking out of both sides of its mouth. On one side it wants to cling to the image and standing it once held as one of the premier newspapers in the nation. The reality, however, is that to be a premier newspaper in a mid-market like St. Louis you have to be willing to commit enough resources to cover every major sport, as well as every major college sports team in the market. I would be willing to gamble that the major newspapers in Dallas and Atlanta (cities that St. Louis aspires to compete with) and Nashville and Memphis (cities that most St. Louisans still view as smaller and less sophisticated) commit those resources. On the other side of the mouth, the PD wants to use business-driven, supply and demand excuses for dropping its coverage. I remember a few years ago one of the sports editors admitting that there have never been any studies committed to determining the level of interest of the PD's readers in the respective collegiate programs. I recall the PD bombarding us with stories about Quin and crew when MU had an absolutely disastrous season two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 they are not even doing their job well. Having a first hand view of the inner workings of the St. John's Nurses strike, what has been reported on by the post as well as other news stations has been a superficial view of the reality. Reporting seems to be a lost art! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 myself, I have decided to start every day with a paragraph or two for mr starks. mr bonwich had an excellent point that the coverage of the illi and the mi$$ouri football programs did not step back a bit last fall while both programs struggled. so today i felt the need to point that out to the apparently clueless larry. everyone should begin the day with a "hello larry" e-mail. if nothing else, maybe we can educate him as to the passion of billiken fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big al Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I sent Larry Starks an E-Mail today...If everyone on the board would send a note it would make an impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzah Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Rumour is the Post is up for sale. They did not send Stu down to Southern Miss. However, they are not only cutting back on Bill's coverage, but also in other areas. The Sunday Business section is a shadow of what it was. Articles from the Wall Street Journal have been eliminated with the promotion of a "Revamped Sunday Business Section". The WSJ articles have been replaced w/ fluff. USA Today is the buyer mentioned, but time will tell. However, we may wish to save our gun powder until we see the whites of the eyes of the new buyer. The Post also seems to be deficient in covering the May Dept store story and the Edward Jones story. Therefore, considering everything, it don't seem we are being picked on. These are all recent developments and none of it looks good. At least they haven't cut the Horror Scope out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I sent one as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 "Rumor"? When a publicly held company sends out a press release saying it's exploring "strategic alternatives," that's a bit stronger than "rumor." Today's W$J reports that bids are due Monday and the two likely buyers are Gannett ("USA Today" is not a company) and Lee, Lee being the owner of a string of "heartland" newspapers, where the P-D would become far and away its largest property. I'd bet on Gannett. P.S. Reprinting articles from the Wall Street Journal in a local newspaper hardly qualifies as a good business section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthington Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Through thick and thin, this is our basketball program. Although it may be a lofty goal to attract STL's sports enthusiasts to the same "fanatisicm" we have for our beloved Bills, we can't just sit back and allow our local newspaper to treat it our program as a doorstep. Would they scale back coverage of the Cards had a horrible season or would they find angles to pursue like 'Roy mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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