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OT Byrce Drew

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9 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Pippen is a commit, not signed.  Good chance he never signs as most players decide based on the relationships with the coaches.

Could be others who ask to be released from LOI's.

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19 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Pippen is a commit, not signed.  Good chance he never signs as most players decide based on the relationships with the coaches.

That’s a given. Topic is Drew. Pippen committed to Drew while Drew was at Vandy. Topic within the topic is also recruiting at Vandy both by Drew and by anyone. I fully expect high roster turnover at Vandy as is the case often with coaching changes. Could Drew recruit at a high level at Vandy? Yes. He did. Can Vandy moving forward win at a higher level and recruit at a high level under a different coach? It may not happen but it is most certainly  possible. That's realistic. 

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15 minutes ago, courtside said:

Garland is from Nashville/Indiana. Shittu is from Ontario, played at Vermont Academy. Two transfers from Notre Dame and Syracuse. Commit Austin Crowley is from Mississippi. Commit Dylan Disu is from Houston. Pippen is from California. They are recruiting two 5 star players from Birmingham and Memphis. Current good players, Aaron Nesmith is from South Carolina. Saben Lee is from Phoenix. Both highly sought after.

Drew recruited Nationally, Internationally, locally, regionally. Recruiting was and is not his problem nor Vandy’s. 

 

 

 

There's a honeymoon period where the coaches who are rising stars get love nationally. I get that. But if you don't show progress on the basketball court, how long does it last?

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I’ve been pretty clear regarding Drew. I will give credit where it is due and I will critique where it is warranted. I found it to be an interesting case study. 

It is ridiculous in my opinion to chalk up Drew’s strong early recruiting to a honeymoon period where rising star coaches get love nationally. Is that what you are saying? Drew gets no credit specifically for his early strong recruiting at Vandy in particular? Wow. Drew recruited well because he was good at that part of the job. He gets credit for making the NCAA’s his first of three seasons. That’s fair. Offourse there will be a rebuild and time for that. But as I stated multiple times, even after Garland went down, and the season falls apart, Drew needed to at least win a few games in the league. That’s why his tenure moving forward was unique and iffy. 

Drew only had 3 seasons and had the country’s best Freshman point guard go down for the season. Any rational person would say give him a bit longer because of his strong track record at Valpo and his recruiting and his first year NCAA team. .....as long as you don’t lose 20 straight. That muddied the waters to go either way. 

It took Jay Wright 4 years to make the NCAA’s at Villanova. It took Coach K 4 years to make it at Duke. 

The problem with a Crews was not winning and poor recruiting. No redent head coaching track record. It was easier to see the direction with a Crews. It was different with Drew. That’s not too difficult to see. 

 

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13 minutes ago, courtside said:

I’ve been pretty clear regarding Drew. I will give credit where it is due and I will critique where it is warranted. I found it to be an interesting case study. 

It is ridiculous in my opinion to chalk up Drew’s strong early recruiting to a honeymoon period where rising star coaches get love nationally. Is that what you are saying? Drew gets no credit specifically for his early strong recruiting at Vandy in particular? Wow. Drew recruited well because he was good at that part of the job. He gets credit for making the NCAA’s his first of three seasons. That’s fair. Offourse there will be a rebuild and time for that. But as I stated multiple times, even after Garland went down, and the season falls apart, Drew needed to at least win a few games in the league. That’s why his tenure moving forward was unique and iffy. 

Drew only had 3 seasons and had the country’s best Freshman point guard go down for the season. Any rational person would say give him a bit longer because of his strong track record at Valpo and his recruiting and his first year NCAA team. .....as long as you don’t lose 20 straight. That muddied the waters to go either way. 

It took Jay Wright 4 years to make the NCAA’s at Villanova. It took Coach K 4 years to make it at Duke. 

The problem with a Crews was not winning and poor recruiting. No redent head coaching track record. It was easier to see the direction with a Crews. It was different with Drew. That’s not too difficult to see. 

 

I will absolutely give credit for consistent strong recruiting a la Wojo at Marquette. But not for one strong recruiting class and two subpar ones.

If you lose one player and it causes you to lose 19 straight, either you're not ready to coach at that level or your overall talent isn't that good. Drew couldn't possibly be that bad of a coach with his pedigree, could he?

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1 minute ago, 3star_recruit said:

 

I will absolutely give credit for consistent strong recruiting a la Wojo at Marquette. But not for one strong recruiting class and two subpar ones.

If you lose one player and it causes you to lose 19 straight, either you're not ready to coach at that level or your overall talent isn't that good. Drew couldn't possibly be that bad of a coach with his pedigree, could he?

Drew...It’s one season. He made NCAA’s in his first season. That’s two strong classes not one, and, he was positioned to be that annually. Drew would have gotten 5 years had Vandy won say 5 out of their laat 20. And he may have done well. We won’t know. Losing 20 straight under any circumstances deserves termination consideration. My thing is you need to have that next coach you want ready to go and i am not sure Turner has that. Williams would in my opiniok given him one more year seeking big improvement.  

I won’t excuse the 2nd half of his season. But his recruiting was good.  That’s one area that was not in question. It’s this one half season of a massive disaster that cost him his job. 

Wojo is apples to oranges. Wojo has way more and better resources. Top 10 budget.  Wojo is an interesting comparison in that he landed a one and done 5 star Henry Ellenson. That turned out to not be worth the multi year trouble of having a one and done.  If you go that route you need to be a Duke that can do it annually. 

 

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2 hours ago, courtside said:

 It can take a few years to get it going.  You get a job in the Spring for the fall season. Few coaches produce elite recruiting on paper their first several years, let alone two seasons. Drew’s recruiting was not his problem nor challenge. It was trending way better than Stallings’ recruiting in a short time. 

 

That's not true.  The first 2 years often are the best for a coach as coaches are usually given a honeymoon period and given the benefit of the doubt.  

0-18 in conference?  And most games were not even close.  Loses by 10, 20, 30+ points. A close loss to Arkansas by what?  4 pointes and then second time thru against Arkansas Vandy loses by nearly 40 points?  And after 3 years!!  Even Coach Crews could get a few wins!!

Coach Ford has what - 1 player left over after 3 years -- Welmer.  First 2 years Ford got us Goodwin, French, Bess, Foreman, Henriquez...  Steady increase in wins from 12, to 17 to 23.   

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

That's not true.  The first 2 years often are the best for a coach as coaches are usually given a honeymoon period and given the benefit of the doubt.  

0-18 in conference?  And most games were not even close.  Loses by 10, 20, 30+ points. A close loss to Arkansas by what?  4 pointes and then second time thru against Arkansas Vandy loses by nearly 40 points?  And after 3 years!!  Even Coach Crews could get a few wins!!

Coach Ford has what - 1 player left over after 3 years -- Welmer.  First 2 years Ford got us Goodwin, French, Bess, Foreman, Henriquez...  Steady increase in wins from 12, to 17 to 23.   

I don’t think we are discussing the same thing.  Yes I would agree that the first few years is often a rebuild transition type of time. No question. I do not agree that it is easier to recruit during that time. No. The idea that Drew recruited well the first couple of years because he was in a honeymoon period is not something with which  I agree.  I do agree there is a benefit of the doubt with regards to results the first few years. 

In his first season, Drew coached what he inherited his first season. Went to NCAA’s with veteran group. He kept Stallings’ recruits as he inherited the job in April before the fall season. 

In his 2nd season Drew’s first recruit newcomers were:

Current Sophomore Saben Lee had offers from Louisville, Florida St., Stanford, others. He’s a good player. Played out of position at point this year. I’d take him. 

Current Sophomore Maxwell Evans had offers from Purdue, Kansas St. others. He has not panned out. No.

Current Sophomore Ejike Obinna who redshirted this season. He had offers from Florida , Virginia Tech, Oklahoma, Clemson. 

Yanni Wetzell sat out as a redshirt transfer.

Matt Ryan Notre Dame transfer sat out season. Former New York Mr. Basketball. He chose Notre Dame over Michigan, Iowa St., Pittsburgh, Stanford, West Virginia. Chose Vandy over Georgetown, Cal, others. 

 

In Drew’s third season, second recruiting season, Drew recruited:

Freshman Darius Garland, had offers from pretty much everyone, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc...best point guard nationally in high school. Season ending within first few games 

Freshman Simi Shittu top ten national recruit as well. Top power forward. Could have gone anywhere he wanted similar to Garland. Also an All American. He underperformed as a Freshman even considering not having a point guard. 

Matthew Moyer, Syracuse transfer. He did not have to sit out this year. Former top 40-75 National high school recruit and Connecticut Gatorade Player of the Year. Highly sought after.  He chose Vanderbilt over Florida, Texas, Kansas St., Xavier. 

Freshman Aaron Nesmith, wing, former South Carolina Gatorade Player of the Year. Had 40 offers, picked Vanderbilt over Florida and South Carolina. Drew got in early and he blossomed. his brother atrends Harvard. Many of Vandy’s players are elite academically. Drew either landed 5 stars or 4 stars that blossomed into top 50-75 players.  Made 9 3’a at Chik-Fil-A classic. He’s very good. 

I had already mentioned the incoming class before. It’s a top 15 national class. 

So if you want to discuss player development or x’s and o’s or losing streaks etc... That’s fine. But Drew’s recruiting was not his problem. 

 

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Why do you know (and so passionately care) about drew?  What are you homer?

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29 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Why do you know (and so passionately care) about drew?  What are you homer?

That’s just it, I found it to be an interesting and unusual case. Was there only 3 years. Then people posted. If you read my posts, I made it clear prior to his firing that in my opinion his situation could go either way due only to the unusually bad finish this season. Any other finish, just win a few games, not many, and his job is not even on the line and he could have possibly lasted a long time there. But, it finished historically bad. It would not have surprised me either way.  I repeatedly did not defend x’s and o’s, nor game prep, nor in game adjustments, nor player development for this season. The only thing I did say was that in my opinion his recruiting was good. That was his strength at Vandy. He recruited well there while maintaining the academic standard there. He was also well liked as a person if that matters to some.  Many national media types have strongly opposed the decision. I didn’t.  I do believe that unless you have someone else ready to go, it may be better to go an additional year, but tough to defend that streak. I am far from the only one to comment on it today. Many national media types as well as coaches (Rick Barnes, others) have commented on it.  I think some may have thought Drew’s challenge there was going to be recruiting and not the other aspects of the job, when it turned out to be the opposite. 

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11 hours ago, courtside said:

I don’t think we are discussing the same thing.  Yes I would agree that the first few years is often a rebuild transition type of time. No question. I do not agree that it is easier to recruit during that time. No. The idea that Drew recruited well the first couple of years because he was in a honeymoon period is not something with which  I agree.  I do agree there is a benefit of the doubt with regards to results the first few years. 

In his first season, Drew coached what he inherited his first season. Went to NCAA’s with veteran group. He kept Stallings’ recruits as he inherited the job in April before the fall season. 

In his 2nd season Drew’s first recruit newcomers were:

Current Sophomore Saben Lee had offers from Louisville, Florida St., Stanford, others. He’s a good player. Played out of position at point this year. I’d take him. 

Current Sophomore Maxwell Evans had offers from Purdue, Kansas St. others. He has not panned out. No.

Current Sophomore Ejike Obinna who redshirted this season. He had offers from Florida , Virginia Tech, Oklahoma, Clemson. 

Yanni Wetzell sat out as a redshirt transfer.

Matt Ryan Notre Dame transfer sat out season. Former New York Mr. Basketball. He chose Notre Dame over Michigan, Iowa St., Pittsburgh, Stanford, West Virginia. Chose Vandy over Georgetown, Cal, others. 

 

In Drew’s third season, second recruiting season, Drew recruited:

Freshman Darius Garland, had offers from pretty much everyone, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc...best point guard nationally in high school. Season ending within first few games 

Freshman Simi Shittu top ten national recruit as well. Top power forward. Could have gone anywhere he wanted similar to Garland. Also an All American. He underperformed as a Freshman even considering not having a point guard. 

Matthew Moyer, Syracuse transfer. He did not have to sit out this year. Former top 40-75 National high school recruit and Connecticut Gatorade Player of the Year. Highly sought after.  He chose Vanderbilt over Florida, Texas, Kansas St., Xavier. 

Freshman Aaron Nesmith, wing, former South Carolina Gatorade Player of the Year. Had 40 offers, picked Vanderbilt over Florida and South Carolina. Drew got in early and he blossomed. his brother atrends Harvard. Many of Vandy’s players are elite academically. Drew either landed 5 stars or 4 stars that blossomed into top 50-75 players.  Made 9 3’a at Chik-Fil-A classic. He’s very good. 

I had already mentioned the incoming class before. It’s a top 15 national class. 

So if you want to discuss player development or x’s and o’s or losing streaks etc... That’s fine. But Drew’s recruiting was not his problem. 

 

Yes.

I believe we are talking about different things.  I may have merged two separate thoughts.   Let me better explain.

1.  I disagree that "(F)ew coaches produce elite recruiting on paper their first several years, let alone two seasons"   Your summary of the Vandy seems to suggest that Drew DID produce elite recruiting his first several years.   And just looking here at our Billikens,  our last 4 coaches did some of their best work very early in their tenures:

Soderberg.   I thought his getting Drejaj and Justin Johnson to be able to field a team that first year, while bringing in Reggie Bryant (transfer),  may have helped us as much getting Billiken greats Lisch and Lidell. 

Majerus.   His first class -- without much time on the job either, brought us Willie Reed, Kwamain Mitchell, Brian Conklin, etc. Then, Jett, McCall, Evans and Loe. Enough said. 

Spoonhour . I personally believe Spoons' "recruitment" of Claggett and Highmark may have been his best recruiting sales job during his Billiken tenure.   Both were all but gone from the toxic atmosphere left by my favorite -- Rich Grawer - the savior of Billiken basketball.   Even if I am wrong, one of Spoon's best recruiting was immediate -- H Waldman. And Donnie Dobbs, David Robinson, etc.  Sure, he later got us Larry Hughes, Baniak, Tatum, etc.   -- but his early years were "elite"

Jim Crews.   Not many good crews.  Hard to call anyone "elite" but his best recruiting was early as well -- with probably his best 2 players (Ash Yacoubou - transfer - and Davell Roby which is also when he landed the others like Malik, etc.  And, of course, I am not counting RM's hold over players.

Tavis Ford.   His early years have been great.   Goodwin and French were immediate starters and the future of our team along with transfers Bess, Henriquez, etc.   And as good as this first full season of recruiting was with Gordon, Pearson and Thatch, it appears his shortened, last minute first class is better.

2.   My second thought is that coaches given time if players are not immediate successes -- the honeymoon period.  But the initial 2 classes commit to a new head coach based upon hype and expectations as opposed to actual results.   I am not familiar with Vandy and Drew like you are, but most likely, Drew's recruiting (including what should be next year's class) is based upon the hype and expectations of Drew and Vandy -- and not their 0-19 conference record.   Next year's recruiting by Drew (had he been allowed to stay) would have been much, much tougher and the results likely far less than recently like you cite.

3.  Again, I cannot agree with Drew being a great recruiter but maybe not being a great "x's and o's" coach.  We all agree that Jim Crew's was a bad x's and o's coach -- his lack of timeouts, his inbound plays, his lack of adjustments, etc.  but at least he still won some conference games!!   A bad x's and o's coach still wins the games he should win.   And the SEC is NOT that great of a conference or full of such other great coaches to warrant a 0-19 record in your third year -- even with injuries. I have to believe that you can choose a random Vandy fan from the stands, appoint them head coach, roll out the ball and the talent level at Vandy (as you described) should have produced at least one (1) win!!   When I think of a bad  x's and o's coach, I think of someone who loses close games because of bad decisions.  Vandy did not have many close games.   They did not lost by 1, 2 and 3 points on a bad call, a lucky bounce, etc. And when they did lose by 3 to a not so good Arkansas team (16-14 record), they then got a second chance at them and lost 84- to 48!!  Top 10 players usually don't have such disappointing seasons.  Seems more like Drew's players quit on him (hence the blowout losses including the final 17 point loss to a bad A & M team with a 14-17 record) and that Drew was so far in over his head that another year would not have helped. And if I am correct, then any other higher level team would be foolish to hire Drew.

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12 hours ago, courtside said:

I don’t think we are discussing the same thing.  Yes I would agree that the first few years is often a rebuild transition type of time. No question. I do not agree that it is easier to recruit during that time. No. The idea that Drew recruited well the first couple of years because he was in a honeymoon period is not something with which  I agree.  I do agree there is a benefit of the doubt with regards to results the first few years. 

In his first season, Drew coached what he inherited his first season. Went to NCAA’s with veteran group. He kept Stallings’ recruits as he inherited the job in April before the fall season. 

In his 2nd season Drew’s first recruit newcomers were:

Current Sophomore Saben Lee had offers from Louisville, Florida St., Stanford, others. He’s a good player. Played out of position at point this year. I’d take him. 

Current Sophomore Maxwell Evans had offers from Purdue, Kansas St. others. He has not panned out. No.

Current Sophomore Ejike Obinna who redshirted this season. He had offers from Florida , Virginia Tech, Oklahoma, Clemson. 

Yanni Wetzell sat out as a redshirt transfer.

Matt Ryan Notre Dame transfer sat out season. Former New York Mr. Basketball. He chose Notre Dame over Michigan, Iowa St., Pittsburgh, Stanford, West Virginia. Chose Vandy over Georgetown, Cal, others. 

 

In Drew’s third season, second recruiting season, Drew recruited:

Freshman Darius Garland, had offers from pretty much everyone, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc...best point guard nationally in high school. Season ending within first few games 

Freshman Simi Shittu top ten national recruit as well. Top power forward. Could have gone anywhere he wanted similar to Garland. Also an All American. He underperformed as a Freshman even considering not having a point guard. 

Matthew Moyer, Syracuse transfer. He did not have to sit out this year. Former top 40-75 National high school recruit and Connecticut Gatorade Player of the Year. Highly sought after.  He chose Vanderbilt over Florida, Texas, Kansas St., Xavier. 

Freshman Aaron Nesmith, wing, former South Carolina Gatorade Player of the Year. Had 40 offers, picked Vanderbilt over Florida and South Carolina. Drew got in early and he blossomed. his brother atrends Harvard. Many of Vandy’s players are elite academically. Drew either landed 5 stars or 4 stars that blossomed into top 50-75 players.  Made 9 3’a at Chik-Fil-A classic. He’s very good. 

I had already mentioned the incoming class before. It’s a top 15 national class. 

So if you want to discuss player development or x’s and o’s or losing streaks etc... That’s fine. But Drew’s recruiting was not his problem. 

 

For the SEC, his recruiting was mediocre at best. Per 247 ......... 8th in 2019, 2nd in 2018, 10th in 2017, LAST in 2016.  One great class, the rest, average to poor.  That is why he lost his job.

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Courtside the biggest day in years for billikens.com and you spent your entire enthusiasm and thoughts defending bryce drew?    Kind of sad. Who here gives a fuock about anything sec/bryce drew.

Go billikens!   

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13 hours ago, courtside said:

I don’t think we are discussing the same thing.  Yes I would agree that the first few years is often a rebuild transition type of time. No question. I do not agree that it is easier to recruit during that time. No. The idea that Drew recruited well the first couple of years because he was in a honeymoon period is not something with which  I agree.  I do agree there is a benefit of the doubt with regards to results the first few years. 

In his first season, Drew coached what he inherited his first season. Went to NCAA’s with veteran group. He kept Stallings’ recruits as he inherited the job in April before the fall season. 

In his 2nd season Drew’s first recruit newcomers were:

Current Sophomore Saben Lee had offers from Louisville, Florida St., Stanford, others. He’s a good player. Played out of position at point this year. I’d take him. 

Current Sophomore Maxwell Evans had offers from Purdue, Kansas St. others. He has not panned out. No.

Current Sophomore Ejike Obinna who redshirted this season. He had offers from Florida , Virginia Tech, Oklahoma, Clemson. 

Yanni Wetzell sat out as a redshirt transfer.

Matt Ryan Notre Dame transfer sat out season. Former New York Mr. Basketball. He chose Notre Dame over Michigan, Iowa St., Pittsburgh, Stanford, West Virginia. Chose Vandy over Georgetown, Cal, others. 

 

In Drew’s third season, second recruiting season, Drew recruited:

Freshman Darius Garland, had offers from pretty much everyone, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc...best point guard nationally in high school. Season ending within first few games 

Freshman Simi Shittu top ten national recruit as well. Top power forward. Could have gone anywhere he wanted similar to Garland. Also an All American. He underperformed as a Freshman even considering not having a point guard. 

Matthew Moyer, Syracuse transfer. He did not have to sit out this year. Former top 40-75 National high school recruit and Connecticut Gatorade Player of the Year. Highly sought after.  He chose Vanderbilt over Florida, Texas, Kansas St., Xavier. 

Freshman Aaron Nesmith, wing, former South Carolina Gatorade Player of the Year. Had 40 offers, picked Vanderbilt over Florida and South Carolina. Drew got in early and he blossomed. his brother atrends Harvard. Many of Vandy’s players are elite academically. Drew either landed 5 stars or 4 stars that blossomed into top 50-75 players.  Made 9 3’a at Chik-Fil-A classic. He’s very good. 

I had already mentioned the incoming class before. It’s a top 15 national class. 

So if you want to discuss player development or x’s and o’s or losing streaks etc... That’s fine. But Drew’s recruiting was not his problem. 

 

I'd say not. He beat out a lot of biggies. How could you 20 straight with those studs? 

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52 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Courtside the biggest day in years for billikens.com and you spent your entire enthusiasm and thoughts defending bryce drew?    Kind of sad. Who here gives a fuock about anything sec/bryce drew.

Go billikens!   

It’s a Drew thread, of which I did not start. And, others posted in it yesterday when he was fired so I replied. It seems pretty simple and straight forward.  

I am capable of discussing more thab one thing at the same time. What can I add to the SLU stuff for you? Trend continued with slower starts and better 2nd half adjustments. Buzz had his team prepared with strong game prep. Getting Robinson back was a big lift for them. SLU played to their strengths of rebounding and defense. 12 first half turnovers, many early, 1 for 9 from deep as SLU couldn’t get in the lane. And it seemed to affect their defense early. Good 2nd half effort. Perimeter shooting, free throws, more players that can create their own shot as well as handle the basketball are areas of need. Great success with the current transfer Seniors. Winning the conference tourney and making the NCAA’s is a big achievement. Tough matchup as with Robinson, Virginia Tech is a top 10 ish caliber team. 

But this is the Drew thread. It is a bit strange that because I am posting in this thread, that somehow means to you that I am defending Drew. Have you actually read the posts? 

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14 minutes ago, slu72 said:

I'd say not. He beat out a lot of biggies. How could you 20 straight with those studs? 

No disagreement here. Great question. Did his players quit on him? Tough to say no. And that is reason enough to make a change right there.  He certainly lost his way with his team this year. Early on he used the Garland excuse for a while. 

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1 hour ago, WVBilliken said:

For the SEC, his recruiting was mediocre at best. Per 247 ......... 8th in 2019, 2nd in 2018, 10th in 2017, LAST in 2016.  One great class, the rest, average to poor.  That is why he lost his job.

Disagree. 

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes.

I believe we are talking about different things.  I may have merged two separate thoughts.   Let me better explain.

1.  I disagree that "(F)ew coaches produce elite recruiting on paper their first several years, let alone two seasons"   Your summary of the Vandy seems to suggest that Drew DID produce elite recruiting his first several years.   And just looking here at our Billikens,  our last 4 coaches did some of their best work very early in their tenures:

Soderberg.   I thought his getting Drejaj and Justin Johnson to be able to field a team that first year, while bringing in Reggie Bryant (transfer),  may have helped us as much getting Billiken greats Lisch and Lidell. 

Majerus.   His first class -- without much time on the job either, brought us Willie Reed, Kwamain Mitchell, Brian Conklin, etc. Then, Jett, McCall, Evans and Loe. Enough said. 

Spoonhour . I personally believe Spoons' "recruitment" of Claggett and Highmark may have been his best recruiting sales job during his Billiken tenure.   Both were all but gone from the toxic atmosphere left by my favorite -- Rich Grawer - the savior of Billiken basketball.   Even if I am wrong, one of Spoon's best recruiting was immediate -- H Waldman. And Donnie Dobbs, David Robinson, etc.  Sure, he later got us Larry Hughes, Baniak, Tatum, etc.   -- but his early years were "elite"

Jim Crews.   Not many good crews.  Hard to call anyone "elite" but his best recruiting was early as well -- with probably his best 2 players (Ash Yacoubou - transfer - and Davell Roby which is also when he landed the others like Malik, etc.  And, of course, I am not counting RM's hold over players.

Tavis Ford.   His early years have been great.   Goodwin and French were immediate starters and the future of our team along with transfers Bess, Henriquez, etc.   And as good as this first full season of recruiting was with Gordon, Pearson and Thatch, it appears his shortened, last minute first class is better.

2.   My second thought is that coaches given time if players are not immediate successes -- the honeymoon period.  But the initial 2 classes commit to a new head coach based upon hype and expectations as opposed to actual results.   I am not familiar with Vandy and Drew like you are, but most likely, Drew's recruiting (including what should be next year's class) is based upon the hype and expectations of Drew and Vandy -- and not their 0-19 conference record.   Next year's recruiting by Drew (had he been allowed to stay) would have been much, much tougher and the results likely far less than recently like you cite.

3.  Again, I cannot agree with Drew being a great recruiter but maybe not being a great "x's and o's" coach.  We all agree that Jim Crew's was a bad x's and o's coach -- his lack of timeouts, his inbound plays, his lack of adjustments, etc.  but at least he still won some conference games!!   A bad x's and o's coach still wins the games he should win.   And the SEC is NOT that great of a conference or full of such other great coaches to warrant a 0-19 record in your third year -- even with injuries. I have to believe that you can choose a random Vandy fan from the stands, appoint them head coach, roll out the ball and the talent level at Vandy (as you described) should have produced at least one (1) win!!   When I think of a bad  x's and o's coach, I think of someone who loses close games because of bad decisions.  Vandy did not have many close games.   They did not lost by 1, 2 and 3 points on a bad call, a lucky bounce, etc. And when they did lose by 3 to a not so good Arkansas team (16-14 record), they then got a second chance at them and lost 84- to 48!!  Top 10 players usually don't have such disappointing seasons.  Seems more like Drew's players quit on him (hence the blowout losses including the final 17 point loss to a bad A & M team with a 14-17 record) and that Drew was so far in over his head that another year would not have helped. And if I am correct, then any other higher level team would be foolish to hire Drew.

By all accounts his recruiting moving forward was good/fine. His recruiting was based on relationships and selling the school, as is often the case. Many Vandy recruits, including Drew’s are strong students where Vandy’s academics, location, also come into play.  I wouldn’t disagree regarding the 2nd half results this season.  I said I thought his recruiting was fine. It was. 3 years isn’t long. Starting over again isn’t ideal. You have to decide if this year was a one year thing or not. It’s an interesting situation, unique. 

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1 hour ago, courtside said:

It’s a Drew thread, of which I did not start. And, others posted in it yesterday when he was fired so I replied. It seems pretty simple and straight forward.  

I am capable of discussing more thab one thing at the same time. What can I add to the SLU stuff for you? Trend continued with slower starts and better 2nd half adjustments. Buzz had his team prepared with strong game prep. Getting Robinson back was a big lift for them. SLU played to their strengths of rebounding and defense. 12 first half turnovers, many early, 1 for 9 from deep as SLU couldn’t get in the lane. And it seemed to affect their defense early. Good 2nd half effort. Perimeter shooting, free throws, more players that can create their own shot as well as handle the basketball are areas of need. Great success with the current transfer Seniors. Winning the conference tourney and making the NCAA’s is a big achievement. Tough matchup as with Robinson, Virginia Tech is a top 10 ish caliber team. 

But this is the Drew thread. It is a bit strange that because I am posting in this thread, that somehow means to you that I am defending Drew. Have you actually read the posts? 

All i know is billikens.com rarely sees courtside any longer.   And in this thread you likely posted more words than you have in all of billikens.com in a few years.   You dont think that exhibition of passion is a little strange to the billikens.com family?  Whatever.   I hope you and bryce find a new home soon.   Good luck.

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20 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

All i know is billikens.com rarely sees courtside any longer.   And in this thread you likely posted more words than you have in all of billikens.com in a few years.   You dont think that exhibition of passion is a little strange to the billikens.com family?  Whatever.   I hope you and bryce find a new home soon.   Good luck.

Ah the NCAA’s. Exciting time isn’t it. Speaking of which, I missed you at the SLU women’s soccer NCAA game this season vs Kansas. I even posted about it in this forum. I didn’t see you there, nor did I see you post about it. Was it strange to me? No.  

 

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1 hour ago, courtside said:

Ah the NCAA’s. Exciting time isn’t it. Speaking of which, I missed you at the SLU women’s soccer NCAA game this season vs Kansas. I even posted about it in this forum. I didn’t see you there, nor did I see you post about it. Was it strange to me? No.  

 

Thats probably because i hate soccer.   Rather watch trees growing.

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On 3/23/2019 at 10:39 AM, courtside said:

By all accounts his recruiting moving forward was good/fine. His recruiting was based on relationships and selling the school, as is often the case. Many Vandy recruits, including Drew’s are strong students where Vandy’s academics, location, also come into play.  I wouldn’t disagree regarding the 2nd half results this season.  I said I thought his recruiting was fine. It was. 3 years isn’t long. Starting over again isn’t ideal. You have to decide if this year was a one year thing or not. It’s an interesting situation, unique. 

One year thing?  Vandy was 12-20 last year while 6 -12 in conference and ended in 13th place. A year later, this year, they wnt 0-19 and ended in 14th place. Not just 1 year. 

And does anyone believe the team did NOT quit on Bryce?  

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I believe that Drew can recruit and does know basketball Xs and Os. His problem is that his character doesn't have a "mysterious" side (for want of a better term). He is too vanilla for the college athletes he was expected to recruit. As a result, they didn't feel compelled to play hard all the time. They knew they would always be in his good graces no matter how they played. Most of the P5 programs have coaches with a personality quirk that keeps the players guessing so they work hard to avoid greeting the dark side. Majerus is a prime example. Drew's personality worked at Valpo because the players recruited to that school were pretty vanilla like Bryce Drew. This is a sad commentary, but it is reality.

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

One year thing?  Vandy was 12-20 last year while 6 -12 in conference and ended in 13th place. A year later, this year, they wnt 0-19 and ended in 14th place. Not just 1 year. 

And does anyone believe the team did NOT quit on Bryce?  

This is where I believe you and maybe some others are maybe being a little quick to disagree w/me w/o actually reading what I said or am saying. I’ll try one more time. 

This year’s class and next year’s are good classes. (Crowley already asking for his release). He and his stafd have been in on lots and lots of high level players. If yoy don’t want to listen to me, ask around. Recruiting wasn’t the early issue. However, notice I only used the term recruiting. I have never said in any post in this thread that he was strong in other areas except perceived personal character. This would include the team quitting on him, x’s and o’s, game prep, in game adjustments, player development. 

It’s very common to have a down season or seasons within the first few years of taking a new position. That would be a long list of who’s who of coaches. Vandy lost a lot of players off of his first team that made NCAA’s.  It took Stallings 5 years to make the NCAA’s at Vandy in a different era. The issue and question was long term. Vandy under David Williams hires and keeps long term coaches in many of their sports teams. After James Franklin left in football, future football and hoops hires were going to be types that bought in to Vandy in a way that they were less likely to leave for the big state school or wherever. When Drew was hired, he had previous success, and by many accounts was a strong hire long term. He was not likely the type of hire to jump elsewhere. Derek Mason was the same in football. 

Last year was a turnover rebuilding year common in a new coach’s tenure. No signs of anyone quitting on Drew. Going into this season Vandy was a bubble NCAA projection even with Garland. The question is how good could they be with lots of newcomer transfers, frosh and young roster of one senior, (Joe Toye). It’s a bit risky strategy as Garland and Shittu were one and done candidates. They finished 2nd for a handful of other 5 star players. (Lorenzo Romar anyone...difference being Drew was landing some) Vandy did not have guard depth this year, the most important position in the college game. Many had the idea of getting through a tough injury the rest of the season and still build long term, a guy that qas hoped to have a Stallings like length of tenure. (difference being Stalling tried to leave multiple times) But then the collapse was so bad even under the circumstances that it caused mixed reaction from a patient fan base. 

I just find it very interesting. Somehow that is equated incorrectly to defending Drew at all costs which I don’t. I think Marlow’s post above has a interesting approach to the topic. 

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1 hour ago, Marlow said:

I believe that Drew can recruit and does know basketball Xs and Os. His problem is that his character doesn't have a "mysterious" side (for want of a better term). He is too vanilla for the college athletes he was expected to recruit. As a result, they didn't feel compelled to play hard all the time. They knew they would always be in his good graces no matter how they played. Most of the P5 programs have coaches with a personality quirk that keeps the players guessing so they work hard to avoid greeting the dark side. Majerus is a prime example. Drew's personality worked at Valpo because the players recruited to that school were pretty vanilla like Bryce Drew. This is a sad commentary, but it is reality.

I would agree with some of this. By all accounts Drew’s Vandy kids had super high character, strong academics, even the 5 star kids. One difference is that it was a lot of newcomers amd young team vs a veteran team. Drew is so popular with media as being one of the nicest guys out there that few have taken the quit on him approach. Many have given the automatic pass due to Garland’s injury. 6-12 in a strong SEC would most certainly would have gotten him another year. The Tennessee home game was a good example of how they could compete and play, and a few others, which makes some of the other ones so head scratching. 

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