I was not sold on Crews

[cheeseman]

The easy way to go in any situation is leave the status quo but doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome makes no sense. I also know that organizations develop a culture that encourages keeping the status quo but once again, those organizations usually fail or have very poor performance records. Therefore, if Pestello lets this situation worsen then clearly things will never improve. Now the idea that the school won't want to eat the last 2 years of Crew's salary is a fair point to raise. The shame of this is that long term it only makes correcting the ship that much harder. Yes, Biondi was motivated by some donors regarding Sodie but I do know for a fact that these donors were telling him the same thing 2 years before he dumped Sodie. It was the added concern about filling the new arena that tipped the scale.

[BigMouthBilliken]

The easy way to go in any situation is leave the status quo but doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome makes no sense. I also know that organizations develop a culture that encourages keeping the status quo but once again, those organizations usually fail or have very poor performance records. Therefore, if Pestello lets this situation worsen then clearly things will never improve. Now the idea that the school won't want to eat the last 2 years of Crew's salary is a fair point to raise. The shame of this is that long term it only makes correcting the ship that much harder. Yes, Biondi was motivated by some donors regarding Sodie but I do know for a fact that these donors were telling him the same thing 2 years before he dumped Sodie. It was the added concern about filling the new arena that tipped the scale.

And yet the area is still less than half filled every home game

[Old guy]

The big money guys will have to be the ones driving this. Does anybody really think Biondi initiated the bold move of sacking Sodie and bringing in RM? Clearly it wasn't the Athletic Director's decision. Does Crews have two years remaining after this season? No way do the Prez or May make a bold decision like that. Somebody(s) will need to pay for it.

Ace your post contains a very large amount of truth and knowledge about the way things are actually done. The big issue is, as it always is, who is the person that will step up to the plate and take this issue in his hands (and has enough clout to bankroll it)? I do not have the slightest idea who this person may be, or even if it exists. Please remember that it is a very different thing to give the University a gift worth something followed by six zeroes and have your name in a great big and lovely building like the Chaifetz is. It is a very different thing to give a similar amount of money and wind with nothing substantial in your name. You may know you did this and got it to happen, but who else knows it? Is your name out in the open for everyone to see, nope... All you have is the (hopefully) great satisfaction of getting someone fired and someone hired.

But could you perhaps name this like an endowed academic chair? Could you have the endowed "Joe Blow" head coach position at SLU? I bet the fund raisers never thought of this, but it might be a good way to deal with issues like this. Of course it would cost bushels of money, but some people have this kind of money don't they? Are you hearing this in the fund raising department?

PS. Maybe I should have colored this post in blue.

[cheeseman]

And yet the area is still less than half filled every home game

You missed the point - Biondi hired RM to fill the arena and when he was the coach we did not have half filled stands.

[MB73]

If VCU can get Shaka, Butler can get Brad Stevens, Wichita St. can get Marshall, Dayton can get Archie, Rhode Island can get a Hurley, Buffalo could get a Hurley, then why the hell can't we get a top coach?

Sure we could hit the jackpot but it is highly unlikely.

What top notch up and comer turn around artist head coach have we hired the last 40 years?

That would be much more possible if we get into the Big East.

[White Pelican]

Sure we could hit the jackpot but it is highly unlikely.

What top notch up and comer turn around artist head coach have we hired the last 40 years?

That would be much more possible if we get into the Big East.

And WHY is that? That was the point of Rise and Grind's statement. Why is that? And for that matter, why do schools that I've hardly heard of, come in here and outplay us, and frankly outcoach and out-talent us too.

[MB73]

You would think the guy complaining about the lack of quality bigs would be upset with the coach who put together a roster lacking them and signed zero for next season. That would be the logical thought.

Majerus's health limited recruiting his final years and we were left shorthanded.

Crews recruited Yarbrough, Gillmann, Jolly, Neufeld, and Welmer... 5 BIGS in 2 classes.

Problem is they're all FR & Sophs. The Sophs are arguably somewhat behind schedule development wise so far.

Mid majors almost always need some upperclassmen BIGS to get there.

[BigMouthBilliken]

At this point hire Groce if he's fired after this year. Anything but more Crews. Some said earlier they were afraid Milik would transfer to U of I anyway

[RiseAndGrind]

Sure we could hit the jackpot but it is highly unlikely.

What top notch up and comer turn around artist head coach have we hired the last 40 years?

That would be much more possible if we get into the Big East.

I feel like my examples went right over your head.

It's not hitting the "jackpot". It's hiring a good coach.

[MB73]

And WHY is that? That was the point of Rise and Grind's statement. Why is that? And for that matter, why do schools that I've hardly heard of, come in here and outplay us, and frankly outcoach and out-talent us too.

We lost a basketball game.

Morehead State is better than you understand, and we have very young BIGS, they had several senior and junior BIGS, and are much deeper than us.

[BigMouthBilliken]

We lost a basketball game.

Morehead State is better than you understand, and we have very young BIGS, they had several senior and junior BIGS, and are much deeper than us.

so why do they get transfer Bigs and we don't? Recent transfers include McBroom (gone) and Ash. Why would an LSU player choose Morehead state over SLU? are we not extending offers? are we too concerned with snagging prep school players (ala Jolly.....remember this kid is 1 year OLDER than his graduating class #mindboggling)? Are we not a sexy landing spot for transfers? too many questions and zero answers. I also had a bottle of wine tonight FWIW

http://www.msueagles.com/news/2013/4/23/MBB_0423133000.aspx?elinkdata=132889

Why can't we get a kid like this??????

[MB73]

I feel like my examples went right over your head.

It's not hitting the "jackpot". It's hiring a good coach.

I feel like this all is over your head.

Crews is a good coach, stuck with a young roster with no upperclass depth last year or this year, his first true recruiting class was this year's sophs.

Give him a chance.

Sure if we get hammered a lot this year like last night... it is time to wonder.

[The Pelican]

Majerus's health limited recruiting his final years and we were left shorthanded.

Crews recruited Yarbrough, Gillmann, Jolly, Neufeld, and Welmer... 5 BIGS in 2 classes.

Problem is they're all FR & Sophs. The Sophs are arguably somewhat behind schedule development wise so far.

Mid majors need some upperclassmen BIGS to get there.

RM left us holding the bag his last two years as he didn't recruit. It is a known fact that recruiting was at a standstill. Had the two year gap been filled with the players we have become expected to see them last year and this year would be different stories.

I agree that quality bigs make or break a team that has average players in other positions. These guys take at least two years to develop especially since the bigs coming in have been used to dominating lesser players that are much shorter. All things become more equal when you enter D1.

I will be anxious to see how we bounce back on Saturday. This game will be one of the defining moments that will propel us or stall us.

[RiseAndGrind]

I feel like this all is over your head.

Crews is a good coach, stuck with a young roster with no upperclass depth last year or this year, his first true recruiting class was this year's sophs.

Give him a chance.

Sure if we get hammered a lot this year like last night... it is time to wonder.

You haven't refuted a single thing I've said. I'll take my chances that I understand what I'm talking about. You seem to be content making excuses for why SLU can't have nice things.

Chris Mooney is another person I should have added to the list.

Yet you're content with "lets see if Crews can work it out." Your stance is indefensible.

[RiseAndGrind]

We lost a basketball game.

Morehead State is better than you understand, and we have very young BIGS, they had several senior and junior BIGS, and are much deeper than us.

Are you the only person that understands anything?

[MB73]

It's amazing how you have 3,208 identical posts. Do you have this saved somewhere and just hit copy & paste, then change a few words before hitting Post?

That was a bad loss, but it is not time to panic.

We still can win 16-17-18 and show progress with a still very young team (3 freshmen + 6 sophs). Many of you said that would be nice.

Now the same people panic after a bad loss. Sure, if we look that bad the rest of the year, it is time for Crews to move on.

But the ugly comments from mostly the "usual suspects" are uncalled for... at this point.

I like the way the same people place the blame mostly all on Crews and Jolly. I wonder about Yarbrough, with all that talent he has not shown much at all, some on here last year were worried about him leaving early for the NBA. And I expected more of Roby. And Bartley, though he is behind a bit with the injury. Everyone just slimes away at Crews and Jolly.

Crawford has stepped up. So has Reynolds. So have a few others to a lesser extent.

I agree if we look that bad a lot this year, then it's time for a change.

But I also think most of you are mistaken that we will then get a superstar up and coming coach to get us to the dance over and over and that he'll stay for a decade. Again, Majerus was a freak of luck, a gift, a magical occurrance.

NEVER PANIC.

[The Wiz]

RM left us holding the bag his last two years as he didn't recruit. It is a known fact that recruiting was at a standstill. Had the two year gap been filled with the players we have become expected to see them last year and this year would be different stories.

I agree that quality bigs make or break a team that has average players in other positions. These guys take at least two years to develop especially since the bigs coming in have been used to dominating lesser players that are much shorter. All things become more equal when you enter D1.

I will be anxious to see how we bounce back on Saturday. This game will be one of the defining moments that will propel us or stall us.

I agree...Sat will be pivotal.

[Box and Won]

That was a bad loss, but it is not time to panic.

We still can win 16-17-18 and show progress with a still very young team (3 freshmen + 6 sophs). Many of you said that would be nice.

Now the same people panic after a bad loss. Sure, if we look that bad the rest of the year, it is time for Crews to move on.

But the ugly comments from mostly the "usual suspects" are uncalled for... at this point.

I like the way the same people place the blame mostly all on Crews and Jolly. I wonder about Yarbrough, with all that talent he has not shown much at all, some on here last year were worried about him leaving early for the NBA. And I expected more of Roby. And Bartley, though he is behind a bit with the injury. Everyone just slimes away at Crews and Jolly.

Crawford has stepped up. So has Reynolds. So have a few others to a lesser extent.

I agree if we look that bad a lot this year, then it's time for a change.

But I also think most of you are mistaken that we will then get a superstar up and coming coach to get us to the dance over and over and that he'll stay for a decade. Again, Majerus was a freak of luck, a gift, a magical occurrance.

NEVER PANIC.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I thought it was kinda funny.

[MB73]

Wichita State is a big game, we need to bounce back and show something. I think it is very possible.

Crews is solid IMO, and ask yourself who we could have signed coming into this year who went to new programs? Hurley? Smart? Howland? Barnes? White? Prohm? Mullin? Leito?

I do not think several of them would have been interested, and others I would not be interested in; and Crews is as good or better than some on the list for our situation.

SO Crews is fine until we see otherwise, he still has an incredibly young roster to develop with undeveloped BIGS. Some here still cannot understand the situation Crews was handed... one Sr. last year, now one this year with two Jr's. Try to think, even Morehead State had several senior and junior BIGS.

Sure, this year is important, we must show some improvement. I say, 16-17-18 wins is possible, then fine, we are on our way as best possible.
We shall see.

(and do not "blame" Majerus for the decline in his recruiting... damn, the man's health was slipping away his last couple years here, recruits were wary, we were blessed to have him come here and turn the program around & take us to the dance)

[slu72]

Let's make a comparison between a school having a coach that is "less than optimal" and a marriage that is also "less than optimal." Certainly any number of us, of both sexes, have had experiences with bad marriages, or "less than optimal" marriages. How do we handle this? Well, before anything else happens there has to be a definite awareness that we are involved in a bad marriage. This awareness is very hard to achieve because there are vested interests involved and the general tendency is to try to fix the situation first of all. The fix may or may not work, and may well make things worse than they were before. Then comes the crucial step, a decision must be reached to separate or split the marriage. This is not easy to do in any way imaginable. Just think of all the ties (emotional, financial, children and friends) that will have to be dealt with and you may get an idea of how difficult a process this may be or become. After all, a marriage is not a one night stand, there are financial ties that are difficult to unravel, and commitments that have to be terminated and replaced by what??? There are all kinds of issues involved, children, living arrangements, ownership of things... The list goes on and on. And on top of it all, whether or not the parties in a divorce proceed to think about it, there is (or should be) the fear of how to replace what you are in the process of losing. Look at the statistics, any number of divorces lead to a remarriage with spouses that are strikingly similar to the prior ones, and end in divorce for very similar reasons as the prior marriage ended in divorce ...

Now let's put this into the context of getting anew coach after firing the prior one. First of all the powers that be must decide that there is no fixing to the current situation. This is not a easy decision to make under any circumstances. Anyone who supported the hiring of the coach that is being terminated will get a black eye in the process. In corporate speak this is a no no. Something must happen to make the old supporters of the coach being eliminated capable of walking out of their prior support and not get that black eye. This is difficult and does not happen overnight, regardless of performance. Reasons supporting the need for the elimination must be collected, sometimes for quite some time. Once a case is made, the termination should not be done without a lengthy look at candidates for the spot. A considerable amount of time determining desirable goals (that are also realistic) for the basketball program is required before you go out through with the process of firing the current coach and hiring someone else. Otherwise it is like going to match.com and finding someone who you really enjoy being with for the next couple of weeks before you remarry which is not a good thing to do, at least not the remarrying part. You need someone who you (the person responsible for the process) can feel somewhat assured may achieve the goals for the program that have been decided. Then comes the hard part, the top dogs in the institution have to be presented with a proposal, with a full cost analysis (how much it will cost to get the coach to depart and how much additional money you are willing to spend to provide a new coach up to specs). This is very hard to do, and it does put the parties that control the process in a bind: what happens if we choose wrong and get someone else that is like the one we are getting rid of? How much of this will stick to my own coat and give me a black eye later on. This is the way it is done in the corporate world. Of course there are variations, this is just a schematic road map.

The following happens next: 1. the institution will have to spend significant money to get rid of the current coach, particularly if there are still multiple years of contractual agreement unfulfilled. This is not a trivial expense. 2.The new coach better be as good as you (the power in charge) is claiming he will be, and better be committed to move to our City and program for the length of the contract. This of course is what the person heading the change process hopes will happen. However, if the new coach comes in and stays a couple of years out of a multiyear contract before quitting and stepping into a newer and better offer somewhere else, or if the new coach turns out to be a repeat performance of the prior coach's, the person in charge of the change may get a black eye (something you DO NOT want to get in a corporate setting).

I am posting all of this stuff to try to emphasize how much easier it is for everyone in charge to maintain the status quo and not change it. There are too many pitfalls in this process that can negatively affect the job and career of the guy proposing the change and leading it. This is not the case if the directive to change coaches comes from above. When the directive comes from above the change will take place and usually in a reduced time frame because the person leading the change will be able to push blame up the ladder later on ... Or will he be able to do so?

Believe me people, what many people in this blog fervently wish to happen is not going to happen soon or at all unless the president of the University decides it is going to be so. Let me remind you that Dr. Pestello is not like Fr. Biondi in any way imaginable. I personally do not think this will happen at all for the reasons delineated above.

I don't know what companies you worked for but when a firm hires a decision maker they lay out certain expectations. And in about 99.9% of the time these relate to improving the firm's bottom line. There usually are agreed to time frames which are mile markers to gauge if those expectations are going to be met. Should things go awry some may pull the plug early, some may ride it out a little longer, but no firm's gonna want to maintain the status quo if the handwritings on the wall. Crews has had three years of recruiting, and if the powers to be can't see the lack of talent we are putting on the floor and so little on the horizon, they are not doing their job. Yes, a buyout may costly but when you look at the risk reward, it's best to cut ties if this ends up a repeat of last year. A new coach may get us into the dance, increase attendance, increase sales of merchandise, etc. By maintaining the status quo we get just the opposite, no tourney check, reduction in ticket and merchandise sales. And the longer you hang on the harder it is to come back, see DePaul.

[majerus mojo]

Crews has been a mediocre coach for 20+ years, and had two tournament teams, coached up by someone else, gift wrapped for him... Get over it

[RiseAndGrind]

Crews has been a mediocre coach for 20+ years... Get over it

The Jeff Fisher of college basketball, some might say.

[majerus mojo]

The Jeff Fisher of college basketball, some might say.

If Fisher was in the CFL, to boot

[Old guy]

SLU72 all I can say is what companies have you worked for and at what level?

You should consider contacting the AD or the President and letting them know your concerns for the program. Undoubtedly after they talk with you, they will take immediate action without further ado before irreparable damage occurs.

PS I particularly liked the idea that "...they are not doing their job..." Please do not forget to include this thought in your conversation with the AD and or President. I think this may really fly.

All the best to you.