TL vs RA

[Zink]

Ideally Tanner, Reggie, or Jolly steps up so that Milik can spend some time at the 3. That hypothetically would help the rebounding situation. Either that or we play big with both Manning and Gillmann out there at the same time.

I can often be found imbibing the blue kool aid, but I haven't seen enough this season to fuel much optimism regarding our options at the 4 beyond Milik. Last year, both Tanner and Reggie showed flashes that led me to believe great things were in store from them; they just need to slow down and play within themselves.

[thetorch]

Injuries could be affecting Agbeko's play. He doesn't look comfortable making athletic plays. If it isn't injuries I don't think the switch is going to flip on like Conklin's did.

Tanner is over his head at this level. Reggie is clearly better than him.

[slu72]

Torch, neither at this point, is a viable option. It's the lesser of two evils. And it's less evil to not have TOs.

[kmbilliken]

May have to go small and play Ash, Crawford or Roby at the 4 for stretches.

[MB73]

RA is not much of a post up scorer - he may try to be but scoring is something he does not do.

I agree but I thought he was high potential.

Didn't he have considerable success after high school in a top notch prep school league? Big numbers? Versus some players who then did very well as freshmen? I thought when we got him he was one of the most credible recruits we had... on paper.

[slu72]

I think we all agreed, MB, especially when we heard Duke showed some interest. Then he had that crossover dunk last year that got us all salivating about the good things to come. Maybe getting hurt set him back more than we know. Someone said, he seems to get overly excited when he gets the ball. Agree with that totally. Seems he feels pressure to score, like when he gets the ball down low and tries to dibble thru two big defenders rather than sense the Double team and kick it back outside. Not doubting his athleticism, but his bb savvy is sorely lacking.

[hsmith19]

Theoretically Lancona should be able to provide some offense and Agbeko some defense off the bench. Both have looked absolutely lost, though. It surprised me that Lancona started the season in the starting lineup, and I'm still surprised that those two plus Jolly are all still seeing the court while Reynolds is not.

I still hope Agbeko can turn out to be the type of rebounding specialist Majerus originally billed Glaze as. And I hope Lancona finds his shot soon, or otherwise he's going to get buried behind younger players pretty quick.

[hsmith19]

I think we all agreed, MB, especially when we heard Duke showed some interest. Then he had that crossover dunk last year that got us all salivating about the good things to come. Maybe getting hurt set him back more than we know. Someone said, he seems to get overly excited when he gets the ball. Agree with that totally. Seems he feels pressure to score, like when he gets the ball down low and tries to dibble thru two big defenders rather than sense the Double team and kick it back outside. Not doubting his athleticism, but his bb savvy is sorely lacking.

I think most of the Duke references on here were in jest, ie "cool that he chose us over them." They evidently had interest at one point, but they are also in a much better position to take on high-ceiling "projects" than we are. The kid has been playing basketball for all of what, five or six years now?

I'm not sure feeling pressured to score is really his problem at this point. He has to know by now his role on this team is not to be a go-to scorer. He seems to freak out with the ball in his hands because he's conscious of all the turnovers and how that's the thing that's going to keep them off the court unless he gets it under control. I don't think it's because he's trying to force a shot or a drive to the basket himself; he just doesn't know how to get rid of the ball cleanly.

[almaman]

Theoretically Lancona should be able to provide some offense and Agbeko some defense off the bench. Both have looked absolutely lost, though. It surprised me that Lancona started the season in the starting lineup, and I'm still surprised that those two plus Jolly are all still seeing the court while Reynolds is not.

I still hope Agbeko can turn out to be the type of rebounding specialist Majerus originally billed Glaze as. And I hope Lancona finds his shot soon, or otherwise he's going to get buried behind younger players pretty quick.

I think it's because we are hurting up front that those 2 get play while MR sits. I still see him as at least 6th man Jr year.

[hsmith19]

Yeah, Crews seems to feel like he has a good guard rotation set, but nobody outside of Yarbrough has distinguished themselves in the front court. But I was still surprised to see a cameo from Jolly against GW, while Reynolds never came in even with all the foul trouble for Roby and Bartley.

[majerus mojo]

Impressed there are 35 posts in regards to who our 10th man off the bench should be.

[Zink]

Impressed there are 35 posts in regards to who our 10th man off the bench should be.

It's a cause for concern at this point in the season when only three guys over 6'5" have shown the ability to contribute. Even Manning and Gillmann are too limited to play much more than the 15-20mpg they are getting. I agree with the poster who said that we'll have to rely on Roby/Ash to man the 4 when Milik is sitting, which will only exacerbate our rebounding woes, even though both are pretty good rebounders for the guard position.

Looking ahead to next year, one of Jolly/Lancona/Agbeko will have to step up, or else we are counting on 2-star freshmen to fill that void.

[majerus mojo]

It's a cause for concern at this point in the season when only three guys over 6'5" have shown the ability to contribute. Even Manning and Gillmann are too limited to play much more than the 15-20mpg they are getting. I agree with the poster who said that we'll have to rely on Roby/Ash to man the 4 when Milik is sitting, which will only exacerbate our rebounding woes, even though both are pretty good rebounders for the guard position.

Looking ahead to next year, one of Jolly/Lancona/Agbeko will have to step up, or else we are counting on 2-star freshmen to fill that void.

We needed one of TL/RA to step up THIS season. I don't even want to think about the *possible* JM-trajectory these two could be on (though at this point I'm a lot higher on RA).. where we are left praying for Conklin-summers that never come. Yes.. bigs take longer, etc., etc., but these two are arguably the two biggest disappointments of the season. Especially frustrating/unfortunate/highlighted when combined with the loss of GG.

[Zink]

We needed one of TL/RA to step up THIS season. I don't even want to think about the *possible* JM-trajectory these two could be on (though at this point I'm a lot higher on RA).. where we are left praying for Conklin-summers that never come. Yes.. bigs take longer, etc., etc., but these two are arguably the two biggest disappointments of the season. Especially frustrating/unfortunate/highlighted when combined with the loss of GG.

I totally agree. We needed them now, but the potential hole will be even more glaring next year without the serviceable minutes Manning has contributed.

[MB73]

Some are finally learning, as MB73 always says, in our situation especially, it is all about BIGS (guards are plentiful).

Majerus got us quality diverse deep BIGS, though it took awhile for them to develop and mature.

MY is our only BIG who is truly productive, he has developed swiftly for a freshman, his last several games he has emerged. Good.

We have 3 freshmen BIGS, 2 sophs (TL and RA) who are not playing to expectations, and a senior (JM) who is a role player.

The key has been that neither RA or TL have produced at all so far, and we needed at least one of them to do so. Maybe they will at some point.

BIGS.

[Clock_Tower]

Some are finally learning, as MB73 always says, in our situation especially, it is all about BIGS (guards are plentiful).

Majerus got us quality diverse deep BIGS, though it took awhile for them to develop and mature.

MY is our only BIG who is truly productive, he has developed swiftly for a freshman, his last several games he has emerged. Good.

We have 3 freshmen BIGS, 2 sophs (TL and RA) who are not playing to expectations, and a senior (JM) who is a role player.

The key has been that neither RA or TL have produced at all so far, and we needed at least one of them to do so. Maybe they will at some point.

BIGS.

Why not try a smaller lineup of TL and/or RA with MY ??

Frankly, I have watched alot of stiffs over the years here at SLU but neither TL nor RA look like stiffs to me. Not intending to punish JM, AG or BJ, but just trying to find a way to get RA and TL going.

[Cowboy]

Some are finally learning, as MB73 always says, in our situation especially, it is all about BIGS (guards are plentiful).

Majerus got us quality diverse deep BIGS, though it took awhile for them to develop and mature.

MY is our only BIG who is truly productive, he has developed swiftly for a freshman, his last several games he has emerged. Good.

We have 3 freshmen BIGS, 2 sophs (TL and RA) who are not playing to expectations, and a senior (JM) who is a role player.

The key has been that neither RA or TL have produced at all so far, and we needed at least one of them to do so. Maybe they will at some point.

BIGS.

-Manning is a Majerus recruit and I believe he would have been a better player, like all of our players, if Rick was still with us

-not a shot at Crews, just that I think Rick was on a level very, very few coaches have achieved

-what part of a Conklin Summer is the player and what part is the coach giving them areas to improve or other factors?

[MB73]

Why not try a smaller lineup of TL and/or RA with MY ??

Frankly, I have watched alot of stiffs over the years here at SLU but neither TL nor RA look like stiffs to me. Not intending to punish JM, AG or BJ, but just trying to find a way to get RA and TL going.

I agree that either RA or TL or both can still be significant contributors. Hell they are 2nd year BIGS. I don't know about going with that small of a lineup, though. JM helps with "D" with his presence alone, and Gilmann is OK for a freshman.

I don't know about the RA injury theory, but he sure seems to have what it takes. A reasonable man would think that with some adjustments and confidence, he can be strong in the paint. And TL could finally find his stroke and hit some shots.

We shall see.

[doowop]

-Manning is a Majerus recruit and I believe he would have been a better player, like all of our players, if Rick was still with us

-not a shot at Crews, just that I think Rick was on a level very, very few coaches have achieved

-what part of a Conklin Summer is the player and what part is the coach giving them areas to improve or other factors?

Cassidy, Salecich?, and Remekun did not show much improvement and RM was still here. Smith did not do much either. RM was great coach but he was not the coach some of you make him out to be. His strength seemed to be in x's and o's.

[MB73]

Cassidy, Salecich?, and Remekun did not show much improvement and RM was still here. Smith did not do much either. RM was great coach but he was not the coach some of you make him out to be. His strength seemed to be in x's and o's.

Mitchell, Loe, Conklin, Ellis, McCaull, Jett, Evans... and others improved significantly.

Name a mid level conference team with 1* - 2* - 3* players where all improved. Tell me. Name it and the coach.

Majerus was a great coach.

[doowop]

Mitchell, Loe, Conklin, Ellis, McCaull, Jett, Evans... and others improved significantly.

Name a mid level conference team with 1* - 2* - 3* players where all improved. Tell me. Name it and the coach.

Majerus was a great coach.

My post was in response to another post. If you can read you will see where I said RM was a great coach. However, ALL the players he coached did not turn out to be successful at the D1 level. Butler had a coach who had 2 and 3* players. What player did SLU have that was a 1* player?

[For-DaLove]

RM was great coach but he was not the coach some of you make him out to be.

What are you even trying to say with this? Rick Majerus is a legend. End of story. He's every bit of the coach anyone can possibly make him out to be.

[TheA_Bomb]

What are you even trying to say with this? Rick Majerus is a legend. End of story. He's every bit of the coach anyone can possibly make him out to be.

I think I get what he is trying to say. Which is many posters express opinions that all our players would be better if Rick Majerus were still coaching this team. He is pointing out that not all players made huge strides under Majerus, that he like Coach J-Crews, had a few that didn't make significant strides.

[Old guy]

One issue no one has said a peep about in this discussion of performance or lack of it concerning RA and JM is that BOTH of these players suffered a severe concussion event very early in their careers with us. JM had been playing well for us at the time of "the event" when KM and WR were taken off play. Check your notes in this regard from this board. He never ever played that well afterwards. RA had a severe concussion during his early play as a freshman, he was on the floor inert for some time until he was taken out. The great cross play that got a lot of board members all exited took place before the concussion event. He has never played like that again.

It is possible to get subtle lingering neuro deficits following this kind of injury. These deficits are hard to evaluate and even harder to pinpoint, but they may be significant enough to blunt the ability to reach peak performance in fine motor skills needed when an extraordinary level of control (required for play at this level) is called for.

None of this is definte, we cannot point a finger and say AH, that is the cause they are not playing as we expected. However, the issue with these players frustrating level of play may not be a matter of coaching ability at all. I am posting this to indicate there may be long term functional effects following injury that no one, not the best coach in the universe may be able to work around. Coaches have to work with whatever gross and fine functional capacity a player has. Functional capacity is much more than just a combination of practice, teaching, and weight training. The functional capacity level available to a player after injury (including very fine levels of neuromuscular capacity that do not affect in any way normal function or movement of the body) can create barriers to what a coach can or cannot achieve with specific players. I truly do not know if this is or is not the case with RA or JM, but both of these players did have significant concussions early in their Freshmen year play which could have created barriers to what they can do.

The issue with these players performance may not at all be a matter of coaching, they may well have lingering neuro deficits affecting what they can achieve in play. We should all keep this in mind before we point fingers in the direction of the coaching staff.

[hsmith19]

...JM had been playing well for us at the time of "the event" when KM and WR were taken off play. Check your notes in this regard from this board. He never ever played that well afterwards...

Not sure what you mean here. Mitchell was back on the team and Reed was nowhere near it when Manning started his freshman year. I remember the concussion, but I don't get what Mitchell and Reed had to do with it. I also remember Manning showing flashes of being good early on, but he played so little as a freshman I don't see how you could take too much from it. He's always been a good shot blocker, with an occasionally decent jump shot for a seven footer, and extremely limited in every other aspect of his game. He hasn't improved as much as we hoped, but recently he's probably played about as well as he ever has at SLU, I think.