JettFlight5 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Hell, I would just go ahead and put the bills on the cusp of the top 100. I mean let's face it, 21-2 isn't that great... 122, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 122, right? You got it, right behind Princeton and Pepperdine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Just curious Wiz ... where do you have Texas ranked. I can't believe they aren't in the top 25. 18-4 with 1 bad loss to BYU. Other than that their losses are to OU, OSU, and Mich St. They have beaten UNC, ISU,KS,Baylor, and K St. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdolwick Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 OK ... I think I'm being trolled ... but as a SLU alum from Louisville who's a fan of both and who has seen at least 5 games from each this year, I'm convinced the Bills would beat the Ville 7 of 10 this year. Anyone who saw Cincy beat UL in the Yum! a few weeks back might call into question the credibility of their respective 24th and 2nd rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Just curious Wiz ... where do you have Texas ranked. I can't believe they aren't in the top 25. 18-4 with 1 bad loss to BYU. Other than that their losses are to OU, OSU, and Mich St. They have beaten UNC, ISU,KS,Baylor, and K St. Just curious Wiz ... where do you have Texas ranked. I can't believe they aren't in the top 25. 18-4 with 1 bad loss to BYU. Other than that their losses are to OU, OSU, and Mich St. They have beaten UNC, ISU,KS,Baylor, and K St. Texas is an A rated team that I currently have at 31. They definitely have some quality wins, But they have been hurt by a couple of close wins . Their close wins are worse than ours. Teams like S Ala and TCU are much worse than A-10 bottom feeders With that said, there is not a whole lot of difference between Tex and the Bills....in fact there is a lot of bunching between 23 and 39, As you get into the top 25 it is difficult to move up (or stay put) If you have a close game against a so-so team there are at least a few teams right behind you out of a dozen waiting to take your spot with their good game. If Tex wins their next 2 they will make it into my top 25 list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 No, that is not why I posted these rankings. Once again, moytoyboy, you are completely wrong. It is your nature. The top 25 I posted is based upon a credible, valid ranking methodology. We must have different definitions for "credible" and "valid". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 We must have different definitions for "credible" and "valid". Apparently 21-2 isn't credible enough for some. It's tough to be a Bills fan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 No, that is not why I posted these rankings. Once again, moytoyboy, you are completely wrong. It is your nature. The top 25 I posted is based upon a credible, valid ranking methodology. Can you please elaborate? For the most part, The Wiz 'shows his math' and has gone through great pains over the years to explain what data he inputs into his particular program. He isn't going by the corns on his feet or tingly sensations on the back of his neck or the eye test. You just posted 25 teams in a particular order and didn't give any explanation. Why should anyone give more credence to your ranking that The Wiz's? You said it is based on a very credible methodology. Well, can you please explain what methodology you used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Can you please elaborate? For the most part, The Wiz 'shows his math' and has gone through great pains over the years to explain what data he inputs into his particular program. He isn't going by the corns on his feet or tingly sensations on the back of his neck or the eye test. You just posted 25 teams in a particular order and didn't give any explanation. Why should anyone give more credence to your ranking that The Wiz's? You said it is based on a very credible methodology. Well, can you please explain what methodology you used? I was asked for my Top 25 by a fellow Biliken, so I did. I can do the MB73 Top 25 any time, when asked. I think it is top notch, a good assessment of the teams, better than KenPom or AP or RPI or some others though these are always debatable. One poster complained about Texas to The Wiz, Texas got pounded today by Kansas State. So yes, this is all subject to discussion, these teams are improving, maturing, slipping, having injuries, getting hot, getting cold, etc. as the year progresses. I did not agree to, nor am I going to explain this to you, nor am I going to BS you about brain bustin' computer research and algorithms. But it is NOT eye test-corns on feet-tingly sensations as you insult me with, little bizzle. The MB73 Top 25 does emphasize how the teams are playing right now, and yes I was surprised a bit that Duke was # 1 though I expected them in the Top 3-4-5, The Wiz had them at # 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 SMU is up on Cincy early. I guess slu will move into the top 100 after a close victory tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 You still lack a fundamental understanding of the Wiz's rankings or any rankings. The Wiz uses a system of inputs related to all the teams and evaluates them on weights/adjustments of his algorithm. If you feel there is something wrong with the result then complain about the inputs or suspect weighting and lay off the silly "thumb on the scale" comments. For example, Duke does have a very efficient offense particularly in relation to the strong defenses they have face. however I feel you must be weighting those factors to strongly as their middling defense means they are closer to 10 at best. Have you ever tried to teach a pig to dance? It would be far less frustrating than what you are trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Pigs could dance. It's flying they got a problem with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Cincy getting blown away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Have you ever tried to teach a pig to dance? It would be far less frustrating than what you are trying to do. You didn't pick up on the whole exchange even though it was clearly explained mid stream. kwyjibo missed my meaning, understandable, he was not aware that I was kidding The Wiz about ranking Duke # 2, but what I was doing was kidding, I have been known to state that Duke is the # 1 primo program in the land for the last 20 years. So THEN you missed out on it even though I explained it clearly afterwards in a follow up post. Intelligence of a pig > AlumniFan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Intelligence of a pig > AlumniFan. Babe and Gordy are pretty smart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I don't want to beat a dead horse (or make pigs fly) but I do want to point out the difference between myself and MB. Post 28 in this thread is a good example. In that post slufanskip asks me why Tex is not in my poll . In post 30 I explain why they are missing. I can do this because it is my system....I input the data...I know what makes it tick. I doubt MB can tell you exactly why Tex (or SLU) is missing from his list because it is not his....he has copied it from a "credible (but unknown) source". He says in his post "he was surprised Duke was ranked so high on his list" I am never surprised because I am doing it....I know how it flows,,,,,which is why I was able to tell skip that if Tex won the next 2 games they would make it to the top 25. Unfortunately for Tex, the weakness in their numbers reared its head tonight and kept them down. Bottom line.... being the chef and preparing the meals is not the same as being a customer and eating the meals. I am the chef who prepares the meals...MB is the one who consumes them (or should I say regurgitates them ) without any understanding of the process. btw....I noticed he had the Bills as 10pt favorites vs my 5 1/2. He should have stopped at the Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm curious why the Wiz and MB have Pitt so high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Pitt is terrible. Every year they beat up on teams and inflate their numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Pitt has ruined every bracket i've ever filled out. I always think, "maybe this is the year".... then they always sh it the bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pelican Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If this were a math class, I would require you to show your work in order to get credit. I believe that is the basis for Wiz's stance above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm curious why the Wiz and MB have Pitt so high? Well for starters, they have 20 wins...including some quality ones. Two that really helped them, were Stanford (A ) and Clemson,( A ) both blowouts. Anytime you blowout an A team that is going to help your numbers a lot. Our blowouts agaist Richmond, Dayton and St. J helped our numbers and those 3 teams were B+ teams. Pitt's 4 losses all were to ranked teams ...3 of them close. As a side note, I currently have moved Pitt down to 18. So is Pitt rated too high (or maybe too low)? You will have the answer this Wed. as Pitt plays Syr...a team I have at 17. ....#17 vs #18...I have Pitt by 2 1/2 over Syr.....Now if you believe the AP poll it is #1 Syr vs #25 Pitt....should be an easy win for Syr according to AP. Bottom line......If Pitt wins or comes within 5 of Syr then my numbers are validated.....If Syr wins easily then the AP is on target....we will see in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 One thing that might solve the apparent impasse between Wiz and MB would be if Wiz would show the actual numbers. When you look at RPI rankings, Sagarin, or Pomeroy, etc., you first see the ranking, then the team name, and then the actual number, usually with a lot of decimal places, that the formula produced. MB doesn't seem to believe that Wiz uses a formula, but maybe — not that Wiz is obligated to do it — if he included the formula result along with the "grade," MB73 would actually believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Updated as of this morning: 1 DUKE 2 LOUISVILLE 3 KANSAS 4 IOWA 5 MICHIGAN ST 6 FLORIDA 7 VILLANOVA 8 VIRGINIA 9 ARIZONA 10 CREIGHTON SYRACUSE SAN DIEGO ST UCLA MICHIGAN 15 OHIO ST WISCONSIN WICHITA ST IOWA ST KENTUCKY 20 CONNECTICUT N CAROLINA OKLAHOMA ST OREGON PITTSBURGH 25 (t) OKLAHOMA MEMPHIS VA COMMONWEALTH SMU TENNESSEE STANFORD Sure, it's no big secret, I used it on this board the last few years, I go by the Vegas power ratings... the most accurate rankings in the land. All polls/rankings/ratings have flaws, especially early in the year. And there are different Vegas power ratings, they vary a point, a point and a half, it depends. RE: not knowing Duke was all the way to # 1, sure, I understood the dynamics. Duke is young but really jelling, rising to be ranked in the top 3-4-5, I didn't look and they shot up to #1. Barely. Two key players that were instrumental last year were struggling early, but now are hot, and their freshmen (Parker, et al) are very productive so the team has jumped to the top. In the NCAA's, when the refs let the muscle prevail, they will have problems, get pummeled down low and their shooters harassed. I look at things from a sports handicapper's perspective, whereas a lot of polls are for show, for the public. What counts is W-L record combined with strength of schedule. Quality wins are a key. Better to be 2-2 vs. top 25 teams than 0-0. And it isn't always who you play, it is when you play them. Revenge. Weary road trip teams vs fresh home teams. It isn't your W-L record on a straight line basis, it is your W-L record but more importantly your current capabilities. Examples, KU and Duke have young teams that took some losses but now are really jelling. Some teams we know have very few losses but haven't beaten any good teams, so they are ranked high in some polls, but do not deserve it. Or others had one big win over a top team that was injured or in a sandwich game (letdown) that makes them look better than they are. I could go on, but do not tell me I do not "know the shot" (Glengary Glen Ross). Wiz and Vegas before yesterday had Cincy at 23-24, the foo-foo polls had them at # 7... a joke... and Cincy got pounded last night by SMU. SMU? And Texas. Well, you get the point. Versus LaSalle, Vegas had the Billikens at -4, The Wiz said we'd win by 5 1/2, would cover. We had LaSalle in a death grip, but only won by two, so he lost. I said we'd win by 10, we didn't, again we had them, the big angle was that LaSalle is dysfunctional IMO, but Loe got into foul trouble and missed most of the first half, we couldn't put them away early, then nobody played offense for us in the second half except JJ. Usually, The Wiz shoots out the point spread 2-3 days early and everybody is amazed. And then when the Vegas lines come out, his line is the same or 1, 1.5 points away. Anyone can do that 3 days in advance with the Vegas power ratings or the early lines that are posted. So what is all the bs about? The Wiz says he crunches computer numbers, has his own program, and does brain bustin' algorithms, fine, I'll take his word for it from now on. Well done. Meanwhile, it is already done elsewhere in many forms. There is always going to be a debate on some teams (Texas? Cincy? Pitt? SLU?), even to the day the NCAA announces the brackets. "On the Bubble". "Last four in". "Snubbed". I prefer what Vegas says... it is based on big money. Not perfect, I know some is based on public perceptions, etc., but it is better than AP or foo-foo KenPom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 One thing that might solve the apparent impasse between Wiz and MB would be if Wiz would show the actual numbers. When you look at RPI rankings, Sagarin, or Pomeroy, etc., you first see the ranking, then the team name, and then the actual number, usually with a lot of decimal places, that the formula produced. MB doesn't seem to believe that Wiz uses a formula, but maybe — not that Wiz is obligated to do it — if he included the formula result along with the "grade," MB73 would actually believe. MB just wants a reason to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 MB just wants a reason to argue. Yep.....funny stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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