ACE Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 It will be impossible to replace DE/Dwight of course when he graduates, but after seeing how effective a physical 3 can be in our offense, it got me thinking that maybe Grandy could bring some of that in 2014. I'm not suggesting GG would be our primary 3... a guy like Crawford will probably also figure in and some yet to be named recruit will also be in the mix. I'm also not saying GG would be anywhere near as good as DE, but our offense really seems to be about creating mismatches. It seems the key to making it work is having a 3 who is quick enough athlete to guard the opposing 3, but also strong enough on offense to overpower smaller 3's inside. I think GG could be capable of that. In 2014, if you paired Grandy with a stretch 4 like Lancona, he could be effective against weaker 3s. I welcome feedback from our resident x's and o's experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Wow Incredible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I doubt Grandy Glaze is the guy you want guarding a perimeter player. But I guess it couldn't hurt; he'd just foul out in 10 minutes (or less) and be -10 or so in plus/minus, and someone else would have to log most of the minutes at small forward. Hey, there are still four spots to fill for 2014-15. Let's enjoy the journey of the 2013-14 season, which could be spectacular, first. Also, I suspect that as the team changes and develops, the style of play will, also. Let's not obsess about finding a clone of Cody Ellis to plug in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Wow is right. The kid is currently a four-minute man --- starts and gets the first four minutes of each half. There could be improvement, sure, but it will take a whole lot of such improvement to go from four minutes per half to a major-player/crunch time kind of guy. Let's see how this season plays out. I am anxiously looking forward to Grandy and John's respective performances. John seems more key if only from this perspective -- if he develops, I would take that as a good sign with Gillmann being able to develop as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 I doubt Grandy Glaze is the guy you want guarding a perimeter player. But I guess it couldn't hurt; he'd just foul out in 10 minutes (or less) and be -10 or so in plus/minus, and someone else would have to log most of the minutes at small forward. Hey, there are still four spots to fill for 2014-15. Let's enjoy the journey of the 2013-14 season, which could be spectacular, first. Also, I suspect that as the team changes and develops, the style of play will, also. Let's not obsess about finding a clone of Cody Ellis to plug in. I think it depends on match-ups. Not all 3s are created equal. No he couldn't handle small forwards who are more like guards, but I think he is quick enough to guard a lot of 3s. Players can improve technique (Cody as an example), but much harder to improve athletic ability like quickness. I've gone back and watched some games I recorded from this past season and Grandy's defense most definitely got better as the season went along. He was quick enough to D up away from the basket. And on offense, while he did very little, the times he was effective were usually when he found a mismatch on a defensive switch. Yes, the style of play will likely change a bit, but RM laid out a pretty good blueprint for success. Pairing a stretch four with an inside 3 is one of those elements that has proven very successful in this offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 Wow is right. The kid is currently a four-minute man --- starts and gets the first four minutes of each half. There could be improvement, sure, but it will take a whole lot of such improvement to go from four minutes per half to a major-player/crunch time kind of guy. Let's see how this season plays out. I am anxiously looking forward to Grandy and John's respective performances. John seems more key if only from this perspective -- if he develops, I would take that as a good sign with Gillmann being able to develop as well. Who said that? Not me...I am simply talking about what position GG could possibly play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Wow is right. The kid is currently a four-minute man --- starts and gets the first four minutes of each half. There could be improvement, sure, but it will take a whole lot of such improvement to go from four minutes per half to a major-player/crunch time kind of guy. Let's see how this season plays out. I am anxiously looking forward to Grandy and John's respective performances. John seems more key if only from this perspective -- if he develops, I would take that as a good sign with Gillmann being able to develop as well. Agree. If Manning succeeds it means Gillmann will succeed. If he fails it means Gillmann will fail. After all, all tall white centers are the same. p.s. Blue font = sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Wow double wow. his ball handling and shot would require a ton of work and a trip to Lourdes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think it depends on match-ups. Not all 3s are created equal. No he couldn't handle small forwards who are more like guards, but I think he is quick enough to guard a lot of 3s. Players can improve technique (Cody as an example), but much harder to improve athletic ability like quickness. I've gone back and watched some games I recorded from this past season and Grandy's defense most definitely got better as the season went along. He was quick enough to D up away from the basket. And on offense, while he did very little, the times he was effective were usually when he found a mismatch on a defensive switch. Yes, the style of play will likely change a bit, but RM laid out a pretty good blueprint for success. Pairing a stretch four with an inside 3 is one of those elements that has proven very successful in this offense. But that doesn't mean that having a 3-point specialist at small forward and a bruising pivot scorer at power forward couldn't work just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I said that. What do I mean by improvement to go from 4 minutes to crunch time? Better, more consistent defense (although you said he got better as the season wore on and I'll agree with that). Better free throw shooting. A better offensive game (not just lay-ups although he did take 14 jumpers and make four). Being more of an improved option --- I also noticed a lot of times giving Grandy the ball on the perimeter was really just an escape valve kind of thing. I love his rebounding intensity and energy. But the bottom line is putting the ball through the basket. You can sacrifice this at the beginning of as game more than at the end. He needs to improve there all around. And you are correct about matchups --- but I'd see Grandy as more the power side of forward and less the small side. Given that there are few traditional lineups in the A10 versus three- and four-guard set ups, matchups of this type may also hurt Grandy instead of helpingp him. For example, La Salle trots out Duren, Garland, Holloway and Mills w/near 7-footer Zack. Could it be done? Sure. Just don't really know right now w/o improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 double wow. his ball handling and shot would require a ton of work and a trip to Lourdes. Or a daily devotion to St. Sebastian, patron saint of basketball players (not Sebastian Telfair). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Wow +1 Who said that? Not me...I am simply talking about what position GG could possibly play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 But that doesn't mean that having a 3-point specialist at small forward and a bruising pivot scorer at power forward couldn't work just as well. True, but it seems like a lot of our success has come from being a little unconventional and creating mismatches... Cody & Rob playing away from the basket at the 4 and 5, and DE taking care of business in the paint at the three has worked well for us. We also had success with BC doing damage insisde at the 4 and that was a bit more traditional, but again, he was usually paired with a stretch big. Ideally, we would have both combinations - the more traditional power forward paired with a sharp-shooting 3... perhaps we have a nice combo in the future with Agbeko and Crawford. But it would be nice if we could also if we also had the option of continuing to be able to pair the stretch big with a 3 who is an inside presence. I know some people just freak out at the mere mention of GG and maybe he is not ever capable of seeing time at the 3, but players improve. He has quickness you can't teach and he is extremely strong. Other skills would certainly have to develop. Maybe we sell a recruit on being the next DE and we can maintain that element in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 That just isn't going to happen. One of the reasons DE was so effective inside from the 3 is that he had the ability to make you pay by pulling up or taking you to the hole off the dribble. Though it isn't his strongest suit DE can make you pay from the outside which means you have to leave your 3 defending him. GG isn't going to be guarded by an oposing 3 regardless of what # you call him on offense. ALL his work would be done inside with no threat from beyond 4 feet. The reason DE is effective is due to the mismatch his well rounded abilities create, GG just doesn't have the same type skill set. So when we have say Tanner at the 4 and GG at the 3 our oponent just matches up with 2 4's as that's what we basically have on the floor. In the end GG just isn't the outside/inside threat that DE is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Not at all kshoe but a pessimistic type might go that way. Certainly not me. Manning's development is still a work in progress. What if you had a staff of munchkins and lilliputians? Would you expect them to develop a big man? I would not but they still might succeed. Who have you seen that was 6'9" or taller and developed their inside, center-of-the-lane game ... say 50% over and above ... where they were when they arrived here? I know it's tough to quantify but keep it in general terms. I'll spare the "ancient, ancient" history ---- Rob Loe? Cory Remekun? John Manning? Brett Thompson? Willie Reed? Bryce Husak? Ian Vouyoukous? Izik Ohanon? Tom Frericks? Kenny Brown? Chris Braun? John Seyfert? And .. what the hell .... Matt Baniak and/or Chris Heinrich? All I'm saying is that over time, and about three or four different coaches with differing degrees of talent levels, we have exhibited no real signs of being the second coming of Pete Newell's Big Man Camp. Manning is going to change all that and attain levels similar to Jett's top-jump-shooter-on-team standing. And Gillmann will reap the rewards (as will we all!). p.s. Red font = non-negotiable, creed-like, burn-at-the-stake heretical belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 I said that. What do I mean by improvement to go from 4 minutes to crunch time? Better, more consistent defense (although you said he got better as the season wore on and I'll agree with that). Better free throw shooting. A better offensive game (not just lay-ups although he did take 14 jumpers and make four). Being more of an improved option --- I also noticed a lot of times giving Grandy the ball on the perimeter was really just an escape valve kind of thing. I love his rebounding intensity and energy. But the bottom line is putting the ball through the basket. You can sacrifice this at the beginning of as game more than at the end. He needs to improve there all around. And you are correct about matchups --- but I'd see Grandy as more the power side of forward and less the small side. Given that there are few traditional lineups in the A10 versus three- and four-guard set ups, matchups of this type may also hurt Grandy instead of helpingp him. For example, La Salle trots out Duren, Garland, Holloway and Mills w/near 7-footer Zack. Could it be done? Sure. Just don't really know right now w/o improvement. Fair enough. No doubt Grandy has a lot to work on. Crews alluded to the fact that his shoulder injury (suffered against Kansas I believe) really hampered him and he played through it. Hopefully that was part of the reason the shot looked so ugly. And you may be correct, he could be best suited on the power side. To be clear, I view GG's more as a guy you play match-ups with, not as a core player... that's what got me thinking that there could be some match-ups at the 3 that could suit him well and actually make him a more effective inside scorer. Obviously he is going to be better off trying to score inside on a 6-4/6-5 three as opposed to a 6-8 power forward. The question then becomes, what would you sacrifice on the defensive end by having him at the 3. I think his defensive liabilities have been a bit overstated. I expect it to continue to improve with experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I'll acquiese to the "match ups" side of your argument. Could be extremely interesting to say the least. I just can't wait to see. Baseball? Boring. Home run derby? Ho-hum. College football? Better. Pro football? Sunday entertainemnt. Mens college basketball? Nirvana. Billiken basketball? Really wet pants leg and I don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 That just isn't going to happen. One of the reasons DE was so effective inside from the 3 is that he had the ability to make you pay by pulling up or taking you to the hole off the dribble. Though it isn't his strongest suit DE can make you pay from the outside which means you have to leave your 3 defending him. GG isn't going to be guarded by an oposing 3 regardless of what # you call him on offense. ALL his work would be done inside with no threat from beyond 4 feet. The reason DE is effective is due to the mismatch his well rounded abilities create, GG just doesn't have the same type skill set. So when we have say Tanner at the 4 and GG at the 3 our oponent just matches up with 2 4's as that's what we basically have on the floor. In the end GG just isn't the outside/inside threat that DE is. Fair points. You may be correct about how opponents would defend it. Again, no doubt he does not have the well rounded skill DE has. The only comparison I drew with DE was a bigger 3 physically overpowering a smaller defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Yep, these are the kind of threads that get started in the dog days of summer. Maybe we can start another one where we discuss the possibility of Agbeko running the point in 2014 because somebody compared him to LBJ when he committed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Yep, these are the kind of threads that get started in the dog days of summer. Maybe we can start another one where we discuss the possibility of Agbeko running the point in 2014 because somebody compared him to LBJ when he committed... He'll be in the NBA by 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 Yep, these are the kind of threads that get started in the dog days of summer. Maybe we can start another one where we discuss the possibility of Agbeko running the point in 2014 because somebody compared him to LBJ when he committed... Sure, the idea of a 6-6 forward possibly seeing some time at small forward by the time he is a senior is as crazy as Agbeko playing point.. http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-basketball/story/_/id/3742575/glaze-coming-american-game/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Sure, the idea of a 6-6 forward possibly seeing some time at small forward by the time he is a senior is as crazy as Agbeko playing point.. http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-basketball/story/_/id/3742575/glaze-coming-american-game/ Too bad he hasn't developed the skill set to make some time at the 3 a possibility. People have said RA could play the 3 also. I'll be surprised, but who knows. It's just that players with that size who have the quickness and the skill set to play the 3 are NBA caliber or close level players It's always good to have people tell you when your converstions are ridiculous. There's just so much going on here in the off season it doesn't make sense to have a post discussing whether GG could play the 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Too bad he hasn't developed the skill set to make some time at the 3 a possibility. People have said RA could play the 3 also. I'll be surprised, but who knows. It's just that players with that size who have the quickness and the skill set to play the 3 are NBA caliber or close level players It's always good to have people tell you when your converstions are ridiculous. There's just so much going on here in the off season it doesn't make sense to have a post discussing whether GG could play the 3. Office Depot parking lot. 4 PM. BE THERE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 Too bad he hasn't developed the skill set to make some time at the 3 a possibility. People have said RA could play the 3 also. I'll be surprised, but who knows. It's just that players with that size who have the quickness and the skill set to play the 3 are NBA caliber or close level players It's always good to have people tell you when your converstions are ridiculous. There's just so much going on here in the off season it doesn't make sense to have a post discussing whether GG could play the 3. Nobody said you had to participate. Several people suggested your ongoing debate about whether DE was a 3 or 4 was ridiculous, but that didn't stop you. Besides, beginning with roy I think these attacks against me in this thread are all politically motivated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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