Big East Break-Up Thread (Merged)

[slu72]

After 550+ posts and one week after the split was coming we're still no closer to knowing what in the hell's going on. We can spec all we want, but we might as well wait until the 7 announce who their adopting into their family.

[ACE]

No way it is announced as an "All Catholic" named conference in this day and age.

Sure, 7 Catholic schools just left The Big East. And they may want mostly or all Catholic universites, and they may recruit all Catholics, but they will probably let in some non Catholics. And even if it is all Catholic there is NO WAY they designate / name it anything that is "ALL CATHOLIC".

Goddam ACLU and every nutcase loon organization would go apesh*t.

Oh the irony.

At this point, I think the smart people know we should stop fooling ourselves with this Big East pipedream. Now is the time to make the move to the Valley!

[Bobby Metzinger]

No way it is announced as an "All Catholic" named conference in this day and age.

Sure, 7 Catholic schools just left The Big East. And they may want mostly or all Catholic universites, and they may recruit all Catholics, but they will probably let in some non Catholics. And even if it is all Catholic there is NO WAY they designate / name it anything that is "ALL CATHOLIC".

Goddam ACLU and every nutcase loon organization would go apesh*t.

This.

You mean UCLA, right?

[MB73]

Oh the irony.

At this point, I think the smart people know we should stop fooling ourselves with this Big East pipedream. Now is the time to make the move to the Valley!

I do not know what kind of point you are making, but to me the problem was the A-10, with Fordham, RI, LaSalle, GW, St Bonnie, St. Joe, U. Mass, all those mostly irrelevant teams, even some of the better ones that were so far away. Our students and fans did not know who TF we were playing, plus a terrible TV situation, no TV revenue, no exposure, lousy east coast refs, etc. Why TF should our student athletes (all teams) travel 1,000+ miles when the MVC is playing the same level of hoops (per, uh, Majerus) and basically equal RPI wise and there are clear regional fan identifiable rivalries and easier travel. SO IMO MVC was better for us the last 10 yrs. Then.

This is different, probably. It depends how things pan out. If we can get it done.

Though, The Big East is NOT The Big East anymore (Cuse, U Conn, WV, Louisville, Cincy, BC gone) the remaining 7 + Butler-Creighton-X-Dayton+SLU will be superior to the A-10 situation for us assuming we would be in the "West" in a 12 team league; plus some TV money and we can watch the goddam road games on TV. Hey, playing midwest teams like Creighton-DePaul-Marquette-X- Dayton-Butler then maybe GT, St. Johns, etc, that will be a good mix that makes sense. Fans will identify with the midwest teams and respect GT and the east teams tradition and power.

So what ever point you made, have fun thinking you are so sharp, but that is how I see it, just to clarify.

(No matter what happens, Gates is still a goddam cheat-shot thug )

[billiken_roy]

I do not know what kind of point you are making, but to me the problem was the A-10, with Fordham, RI, LaSalle, GW, St Bonnie, St. Joe, U. Mass, all those mostly irrelevant teams, even some of the better ones that were so far away. Our students and fans did not know who TF we were playing, plus a terrible TV situation, no TV revenue, no exposure, lousy east coast refs, etc. Why TF should our student athletes (all teams) travel 1,000+ miles when the MVC is playing the same level of hoops (per, uh, Majerus) and basically equal RPI wise and there are clear regional fan identifiable rivalries and easier travel. SO IMO MVC was better for us the last 10 yrs. Then.

This is different, probably. It depends how things pan out. If we can get it done.

Though, The Big East is NOT The Big East anymore (Cuse, U Conn, WV, Louisville, Cincy, BC gone) the remaining 7 + Butler-Creighton-X-Dayton+SLU will be superior to the A-10 situation for us assuming we would be in the "West" in a 12 team league; plus some TV money and we can watch the goddam road games on TV. Hey, playing midwest teams like Creighton-DePaul-Marquette-X- Dayton-Butler then maybe GT, St. Johns, etc, that will be a good mix that makes sense. Fans will identify with the midwest teams and respect GT and the east teams tradition and power.

So what ever point you made, have fun thinking you are so sharp, but that is how I see it, just to clarify.

(No matter what happens, Gates is still a goddam cheat-shot thug )

so clarify MB, are you with us on the new conference or are you still pining for the mvc?

[Clock_Tower]

I think if you are a SLU fan you must be hoping against hope that the new Big East will include us among its members. Certainly when I first heard the news that the bloated Big East was set to disintegrate my first thought was SLU must do whatever it takes to be included in this new conference. Being in a major conference with like minded schools has driven every decision SLU has made regarding its basketball program since leaving the Midwestern Collegiate Conference for the Great Midwest in 1991. The Big East passed us over in 2005 for Marquette & DePaul, now it appears finally after more than 20 years of preparation we are ready to take our place in a major conference. When/If they ask us we will most certainly join, for pretty much every Billikens fan this is a decision so clear cut that even the SLU administration can't screw it up.

Thus far I've only seen people making a case for our inclusion and only then worrying about the possibility of SLU being yet again passed over and where we go from there if the unthinkable happens. Probably because I'm mostly a pessimist at heart ( I am a lifelong Billikens fan after all) and I also have a tendency to start needless arguments in the face of overwhelming favor I'd like to make the case that SLU should stay put in the A10 or at least reconsider joining the new Big East Conference without making some major changes.

Lets start this argument by looking at a former and possibly future conference mate, the DePaul Blue Demons. DePaul had been successful for decades as an independent but joined with SLU and several other schools to form the Great Midwest and later joining CUSA after the merger with old Metro Conference. DePaul really had no more success in either league than SLU did. They managed to produce a few more NBA players but overall success on the court was average at best. What they did do was make the NCAA tournament the year before the Big East made their pitch to expand. This pushed them ahead of SLU for inclusion in the super expanded Big East. DePaul simply was not ready to play at this level. Since joining the Big East DePaul has had 1 winning record overall and in conference play the last 3 seasons DePaul has a record of 2-52. DePaul was once one of the strongest programs in the nation with a lock on the prodigious Chicago area talent, is now not just the worst team in the best college basketball conference ever. They have become one of the worst programs in the nation. Their fanbase is down to nothing, their once fertile Chicago recruiting ground has been invaded by every big program in the country (and some not so big, DePaul would take Evans, McCall, & Carter in a heartbeat), and now in desperate need of upgrading the program infrastructure they have no money or support to do so. DePaul is looking at years maybe even decades of rebuilding their program and it is all due to joining the Big East. They simply were not ready to even come close to competing with their conference in terms of dollars spent. That led to hiring poor coach after poor coach, who looks even worse battling Boeheim, Pitino, Thompson, & Williams night in, night out. Frankly DePaul had no idea what they were getting themselves into when they joined the Big East. Their administration thought business as usual would be just fine. It wasn't and their program is a shell of itself because of the stance they took. Joining a league of this nature means a total commitment from the University to not just compete but thrive. Nothing in SLU's history indicates that we would be any different.

Now lets take a closer look at finances. I couldn't find the latest numbers so these are from 2010. This is what the new proposed Big East members spent on their basketball programs in 2010.

Marquette 10,306,508

Georgetown 7,405,214

Villanova 5,959,531

Seton Hall 5,200,805

St. Johns 4,729,555

Providence 4,637,423

Creighton 4,036,610

Xavier 3,938,466

Dayton 3,401,333

DePaul 3,257,309

Saint Louis 3,105,150

Butler 1,729,754

To truly compete in this new conference we are going to have to increase funding for not just basketball but for all sports. Not just by 10% or even 30%. We have to increase spending by 200% at the minimum and even that won't guarantee success. We have to spend wisely. SLU's athletic department has made some great strides but they aren't ready for this. SLU's administration won't give them the funds to succeed and even if they did they wouldn't know what to do with them if they had it. Here's the other thing, this can't happen gradually. Every day we aren't spending like Marquette or Georgetown, everyday we hedge on a recruiting trip or wait to buy new equipment we lose ground in this conference and we dig ourselves a bigger hole. Theoretically if we thought there was any chance of this breakup happening in the near future our funding should have been increased 2 or 3 years ago just to prepare. At this point we aren't prepared at all. One underfunded year in this new conference will mean 5 years of losing on the court.

While SLU will be playing catchup trying to outspend the competition in our new conference, those teams who have grown fat on Big east football money will now have to go without. Will Georgetown & Marquette be able to maintain the amount of revenue they take which is the lifeblood of their success. To a certain extent yes, they are proven brands in NCAA college basketball but most certainly their ability to spend will decrease and that will ultimately affect their play on the court. Right now those two are yearly NCAA locks with the ability to compete for NCAA titles. Will they maintain that elite status without a conference full of other Big East powers. I'm not sure if they can carry a conference on their own. What of the lesser Big East powers? Seton Hall, St. Johns, Providence, Villanova, all have ridiculous budgets in comparison to nearly all NCAA D-1 teams. Yet they barely tread water in the current Big East. When they have to tighten their belts how much will their product on the court fall off? Meanwhile the new schools from the A10 are still adjusting to the new league, it may take a couple seasons for them to assert themselves at a higher level. By the time Xavier, Butler, Creighton, SLU are ready where will the rest of the conference be? Without Football money could Marquette & Georgetown be just different versions of Xavier & Temple, and the other schools more closely resembling the dregs of the A10 that we always said were holding us back. In 5 years will this new Big East be nothing more but an overhyped A10 that plays their conference tournament in Manhattan instead of Brooklyn. By this time all the reasons for leaving, better competition, more notoriety, more money, could all be gone.

Meanwhile the A10 goes on certainly weaker but still a high major and regularly one of the best non BCS conferences in the country. One or two schools have stepped up and successfully filled Xavier & Temple's niche as conference top dogs. They did it by slightly increasing their budgets over time, making smart coaching hires time after time, and building facilities that rival those from BCS conferences allowing them to compete directly with BCS schools for recruits. These teams are making the NCAAs year after year, while their former conference brethren in the new Big East struggle to finish in the upper half of their conference which instead of 5 or 6 bids is now struggling to garner 3 bids a year. These schools realize the NCAA basketball landscape is ever changing. Their will always be a place for a top program to compete no matter what conference they are in. And as they have built their programs over time, 10-15 years down the road after many years of success they will be ready to move on to an upper echelon conference, not based on how many TVs are in their respective market but because of how many sweet 16s berths they have achieved.

I already know what SLU will do. If the Big East offers we will join. This will be the third time we've made this same mistake. We left the MVC after some mild success originally to go to the Metro conference in the early 70s. We were quickly overwhelmed and it nearly killed our basketball program. After years of rebuilding we finally were back on solid footing in the MVC. We left a good situation again for a league where we were in over our head. This time it wasn't competition on the court that did us in, it was off the court. We were left behind again and took years of criticism from the local media and fans for being the first university founded west of the Mississippi playing in a conference HQed in Atlantic City NJ. Once again we've achieved a modicum of success after a few years of struggling. Sure we have an on campus arena and a wealthy donor backing the program, but we have a President who has no interest in the program and we've lost our HOF coach and with that any direction for the basketball program in the immediate future. And we think we are ready to take on the Big East? We've watched programs just like our own, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Xavier, Creighton, even Marquette, build their programs the right way. We've watched our program flounder for years & we are looking at our dismal future in the face of DePaul. It is time to build our program the right way. Just because we have the opportunity it doesn't mean we have to take it. I'd much rather be contending for A10 titles than fighting for the last spot in the Big East tournament with DePaul & Butler.

Torch.

Great post with alot of thoughtful comments. Like you, I agree that the core problem/issue with Billiken basketball has been, and remains, the lack of true institutional support for the program. We have seen this repeatedly over time despite some (but not all) good/great athletic directors and coaches. IMO, Debbie Yow was great - a visionary. Cheryl Levick was solid and probably can only be given a grade of "Incomplete" for her time here. As to Doug Woolard, I admit that I was not a fan of his. As to Chris May, I had very low expectations and, quite frankly, I have been pleasantly surprised to date but so much remains at stake and athletic directors are best judged over longer periods of time. As to coaches, Spoonhour was great but was nickle and dimed, became overly frustrated and quit. Romar was a good coach but, IMO, just not the right man for this job. Brad was good game-day coach but a bad recruiter and just the wrong guy to build this program. I say "build" b/c Brad had inherited a program without much talent or success, which was playing without proper facilities, which was poorly funded and supported and which had dropped from Conf USA. Just too much to handle.

No doubt, I agree with the basis of your post -- that the program must be supported or that it will not be successful. And yes, with a better conference/rivals, the job can and will be tougher but I'd rather take that path. Dave Leito has shown that winning is possible at DePaul despite their lack of instiutional support as well. The same can be said here in that I beleive that the right guy can still win despite all the obstacles here at SLU. Spoonhour and RM both proved it could be done -- in the short term -- but both proved that even they could not, and would not, stay here long-term. Both were highly successful coaches who wanted to end their careers here at SLU -- but Spoon couldn't -- and it is unclear if RM would have been able to. Dave Leito did the same by leaving DePaul. Good coaches are just not going to take the job, and if they do, stay at the job. At the same time, as much as I question Fr. Biondi's support for the program, I do think that he does support the program enough to prevent another Ron Ecker/Metro Conference disaster from occurring.

X, Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, etc. have had great coaches AND great instiutional support and have won despite their conference affiliations. We have not had the instiutional support and therefore have not won in any conference we have been part of -- whether the MCC, Great Midwest, Conf USA or A10. Intentionally staying down with the remaing A10 schools is no more a remedy for success than taking a chance with BE7 but would sure be more enjoyable from this fan's perspective.

[MB73]

so clarify MB, are you with us on the new conference or are you still pining for the mvc?

New conference, for sure.

If we get in with "The 7" plus, say Dayton-X-Butler-maybe Creighton (give or take).

I assume some good terms and conditions for SLU financially, TV revenue and real TV exposure, (ESPN type?), and it would be best if we are in a West Division with fan identifiable rival types like DePaul-MU-Creighton-Butler-Dayton-X but play still GT and St. Johns once a yr or every other year, plus the conference tournament. Sure.

This is much different than the joke A-10 mistake.

That is what I wrote.

[kshoe]

New conference, for sure.

If we get in with "The 7" plus, say Dayton-X-Butler-maybe Creighton (give or take) of course.

I assume some good terms and conditions for SLU financially, TV revenue and real TV exposure, (ESPN type?), and it would be best if we are in a West Division with fan identifiable rival types like DePaul-MU-Creighton-Butler-Dayton-X but play still GT and St. Johns once a yr or every other year, plus the conference tournament. Sure.

This is much different than the joke A-10 mistake.

That is what I wrote.

But you constantly mocked the chance of this conference ever happening and called it a pipe dream. At this point, even you have to admit there is a reasonable chance it occurs.

[MB73]

But you constantly mocked the chance of this conference ever happening and called it a pipe dream. At this point, even you have to admit there is a reasonable chance it occurs.

You are correct, I did not think it would happen, though it is not exactly what everyone thought, is it?

Again, Cuse-U Conn-WV-Cincy-Louisville-BC (long ago) have left... so The Big East is not the The Big East anymore. GT and MU are top notch, St. Johns is good, Nova is good, but not the power league that it once was.

And I always mocked the pure "Catholic" league thing (which will NOT happen with all the political ramifications, so I think I am correct about that).

AND we are not in the conference yet, though I think it will happen for us, despite Biondi et al. (hey, if so, it will be much, much tougher sledding for us to compete, no easy games... we will need more BIGS! But this will help recruiting a lot... get some St. Louis area 4* & 5*'s to stay).

With the conditions I described in my previous post, yes, this would be a big upgrade from our A-10 mistake. Better than MVC, too, for the record. "You goddam right" (Colonel Jessup).

(HEY, a LOT of things have happened in the good old United States of America that I did not think possible 5-6 yrs ago... how about you? Do you think some highly unlikely, almost impossible things have occurred?)

[billiken_roy]

New conference, for sure.

If we get in with "The 7" plus, say Dayton-X-Butler-maybe Creighton (give or take).

I assume some good terms and conditions for SLU financially, TV revenue and real TV exposure, (ESPN type?), and it would be best if we are in a West Division with fan identifiable rival types like DePaul-MU-Creighton-Butler-Dayton-X but play still GT and St. Johns once a yr or every other year, plus the conference tournament. Sure.

This is much different than the joke A-10 mistake.

That is what I wrote.

what you still cant understand mb, is that we would not be getting this opportunity if we hadnt taken the "joke A-10 mistake" to get to this point. creighton is still not a certain invitee and they have had far more success than us over the last 20 years. yet they are getting as much hesitation as we are if not more. we are basically in the conversation because of our a-10 affiliation and the alliance we have built with xavier and dayton.

[kshoe]

You are correct, I did not think it would happen, though it is not exactly what everyone thought, is it?

Again, Cuse-U Conn-WV-Cincy-Louisville-BC (long ago) have left... so The Big East is not the The Big East anymore.

And I always mocked the pure "Catholic" league thing (which will NOT happen with all the political ramifications, so I think I am correct about that).

AND we are not in the conference yet, though I think it will happen for us, despite Biondi et al. (hey, if so, it will be much, much tougher sledding... we will need more BIGS! But this will help recruiting a lot... get some St. Louis area 4* & 5*'s to stay).

With the conditions I described in my previous post, yes, this would be a big upgrade from our A-10 mistake. Better than MVC for sure....

(HEY, a LOT of things have happened in the good old United States of America that I did not think possible 5-6 yrs ago... how about you? Do you think some highly unlikely, almost impossible things have occurred?)

I don't think I speak for everyone but the potential 12 team conference that seems to be quite possible is almost EXACTLY what I thought would happen when the 7 schools finally broke off. The only thing I've been surprised about his how fast its all gone down. It was only 8 days ago that we heard the 7 schools had a meeting to discuss leaving.

As to the U.S., I agree and have been quite surprised that over the past 4 years the stock market has been able to essentially double from its March 2009 lows. What a great job by all of our leaders to get us back on track!

[AMDG]

I always thought it was clueless local media personalities that thought the A-10 was a mistake. My impression is that actually SLU alumni and fans like myself have always been on board, at least the ones not collecting social security.

[billiken_roy]

Torch.

Great post with alot of thoughtful comments. Like you, I agree that the core problem/issue with Billiken basketball has been, and remains, the lack of true institutional support for the program. We have seen this repeatedly over time despite some (but not all) good/great athletic directors and coaches. IMO, Debbie Yow was great - a visionary. Cheryl Levick was solid and probably can only be given a grade of "Incomplete" for her time here. As to Doug Woolard, I admit that I was not a fan of his. As to Chris May, I had very low expectations and, quite frankly, I have been pleasantly surprised to date but so much remains at stake and athletic directors are best judged over longer periods of time. As to coaches, Spoonhour was great but was nickle and dimed, became overly frustrated and quit. Romar was a good coach but, IMO, just not the right man for this job. Brad was good game-day coach but a bad recruiter and just the wrong guy to build this program. I say "build" b/c Brad had inherited a program without much talent or success, which was playing without proper facilities, which was poorly funded and supported and which had dropped from Conf USA. Just too much to handle.

No doubt, I agree with the basis of your post -- that the program must be supported or that it will not be successful. And yes, with a better conference/rivals, the job can and will be tougher but I'd rather take that path. Dave Leito has shown that winning is possible at DePaul despite their lack of instiutional support as well. The same can be said here in that I beleive that the right guy can still win despite all the obstacles here at SLU. Spoonhour and RM both proved it could be done -- in the short term -- but both proved that even they could not, and would not, stay here long-term. Both were highly successful coaches who wanted to end their careers here at SLU -- but Spoon couldn't -- and it is unclear if RM would have been able to. Dave Leito did the same by leaving DePaul. Good coaches are just not going to take the job, and if they do, stay at the job. At the same time, as much as I question Fr. Biondi's support for the program, I do think that he does support the program enough to prevent another Ron Ecker/Metro Conference disaster from occurring.

X, Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, etc. have had great coaches AND great instiutional support and have won despite their conference affiliations. We have not had the instiutional support and therefore have not won in any conference we have been part of -- whether the MCC, Great Midwest, Conf USA or A10. Intentionally staying down with the remaing A10 schools is no more a remedy for success than taking a chance with BE7 but would sure be more enjoyable from this fan's perspective.

what so many of you do not understand when throwing out the "institutional support" argument is that saint louis university needs to have the support of their boosters to be able to pass the increased budget so many of you think is an entitlement. my gosh, we had to institute a mandatory billliken club gift to approach the needed gifting level to even build the arena. i barely give four figures and i havent lost ground in my seniority number. that doesnt speak very well for our "big boosters". i.e. we dont have any. dont get me wrong, the big ones that do give are wonderful. but when there are barely 300 people giving more than me annually, that doesnt say much for the quantity of big boosters for the billikens.

to expect the university to subsidize the difference is unreasonable. it just flat out isnt going to happen. not on a regular basis. and before we point fingers at the school, i think most need to look at themselves and see if they truly are participating at the level they can.

[AMDG]

what you still cant understand mb, is that we would not be getting this opportunity if we hadnt taken the "joke A-10 mistake" to get to this point. creighton is still not a certain invitee and they have had far more success than us over the last 20 years. yet they are getting as much hesitation as we are if not more. we are basically in the conversation because of our a-10 affiliation and the alliance we have built with xavier and dayton.

Exactly correct. If we were in a league with witchita state, illinois state, carbondale, etc., there is no way we'd have a chance.

[billiken_roy]

You are correct, I did not think it would happen, though it is not exactly what everyone thought, is it?

Again, Cuse-U Conn-WV-Cincy-Louisville-BC (long ago) have left... so The Big East is not the The Big East anymore. GT and MU are top notch, St. Johns is good, Nova is good, but not the power league that it once was.

And I always mocked the pure "Catholic" league thing (which will NOT happen with all the political ramifications, so I think I am correct about that).

AND we are not in the conference yet, though I think it will happen for us, despite Biondi et al. (hey, if so, it will be much, much tougher sledding for us to compete, no easy games... we will need more BIGS! But this will help recruiting a lot... get some St. Louis area 4* & 5*'s to stay).

With the conditions I described in my previous post, yes, this would be a big upgrade from our A-10 mistake. Better than MVC, too, for the record. "You goddam right" (Colonel Jessup).

(HEY, a LOT of things have happened in the good old United States of America that I did not think possible 5-6 yrs ago... how about you? Do you think some highly unlikely, almost impossible things have occurred?)

despite biondi? you do realize that it is biondi that has the relationships with the other catholic presidents that ultimately will be the decision makers? if we would have brought in "new blood" in the last year or so as so many of you have wished for to run saint louis university, i fear we wouldnt even be in the discussion. like it or not, father biondi is our obi wan knobi.

[MB73]

what you still cant understand mb, is that we would not be getting this opportunity if we hadnt taken the "joke A-10 mistake" to get to this point. creighton is still not a certain invitee and they have had far more success than us over the last 20 years. yet they are getting as much hesitation as we are if not more. we are basically in the conversation because of our a-10 affiliation and the alliance we have built with xavier and dayton.

Baseless.

But nice try. I come forward with a concession, and you do not (sound familiar?)

We would have been in the same situation if we had been in The Valley. Maybe better.

Creighton is just as or even MORE desireable than SLU, and they are in MVC, their problem is if they might be too far west, it depends on how the Big 7 look at the alignment, how many teams (10, 12?) then maybe 16 later.

[billiken_roy]

our record compared to creighton over the last 20 years is inferior to creighton. they have a much bigger arena and higher attendance record. yet they are sitting on the fence with us. why? because they play in the god awful mvc. that is the base of my point. you seem to have a hard time understanding things. so we should all try to explain points to you to the nth degree apparently. hopefully it is becoming clearer how it was good to be affilitated with an east coast conference of mostly private schools with a strong alliance in particular with our two neighbors.

[JMM28]

our record compared to creighton over the last 20 years is inferior to creighton. they have a much bigger arena and higher attendance record. yet they are sitting on the fence with us. why? because they play in the god awful mvc. that is the base of my point. you seem to have a hard time understanding things. so we should all try to explain points to you to the nth degree apparently. hopefully it is becoming clearer how it was good to be affilitated with an east coast conference of mostly private schools with a strong alliance in particular with our two neighbors.

Eh..Creighton is on the fence more based on geography and tv market than anything else. Butler was in the even more god awful(on your scale) horizon league just 6 months ago and is now a virtual lock for this new league.

If SLU makes it to the new conference with the BE7, the A10 experience will be a rousing success. If they don't it will be a terrible failure.

[AMDG]

No one likes the mvc. not even schools in the valley. you are the only one MB73. what does that tell you?

[MB73]

our record compared to creighton over the last 20 years is inferior to creighton. they have a much bigger arena and higher attendance record. yet they are sitting on the fence with us. why? because they play in the god awful mvc. that is the base of my point. you seem to have a hard time understanding things. so we should all try to explain points to you to the nth degree apparently. hopefully it is becoming clearer how it was good to be affilitated with an east coast conference of mostly private schools with a strong alliance in particular with our two neighbors.

Not true.

Creighton's problem is whether or not the Big 7 wants to go that far west for travel, etc, not the MVC. Depends on Big 7's vision.

And Biondi is not an asset, and you know it. You do.

But I know you have customers and align with the "club", it is a nice fit for you, mix business with pleasure. Nice. But SLU going to the A-10 was a mistake, Creighton is in for sure, if the "Big 7" is open to more western travel, especially if they intend to go national with Gonzaga etc (which I would not prefer).

[billiken_roy]

butler is in simply because their record is astounding considering their school size and the diminutive conference they have been playing. add to that the indy marketplace, they are a no brainer for a basketball conference.

[AMDG]

creighton will be on the outside looking in because it's the 76th largest television market and offers nothing to the rest of the schools who are in the top 40 television markets. That is why creighton belongs in the butt-a$$ mvc.

[billiken_roy]

Not true.

Creighton's problem is whether or not the Big 7 wants to go that far west for travel, etc, not the MVC. Depends on their vision.

Biondi is not an asset, and you know it. You do.

I know you have customers and align with the "club", it is a nice fit for you, mix business with pleasure. Nice. But SLU going to the A-10 was a mistake, Creighton is in for sure, if Big 7 is open to even more western travel, especially if they intend to go national with Gonzaga etc (which I would not prefer).

if you cannot connect the dots to the importance of father biondi in this deal you have problems. i am not condoning all of his recent slu actions. i am only saying that he is indeed well connected to the decision makers. i am extremely grateful he is still at slu for that one reason.

even if slu misses out on the new conference, i sure hope they stay in the a-10. to lower their standards and accept the mvc would be akin to giving up forever and sending us to midmajor pergatory forever.

[MB73]

No one likes the mvc. not even schools in the valley. you are the only one MB73. what does that tell you?

No one?

Says who, YOU? Who tf are you?

Majerus, for one, said we should be in the MVC, though he finally gave up when he realized it was futile with knucklehead Biondi, and quit bringing it up, like most employees do when they realize they are fighting a losing was againt the CEO.

A LOT of smart notable alumni and ex SLU athletes thought we should be in the MVC intead of A-10. Some do not post here. Some are political and keep their mouth shut for the "good of the church".

[ACE]

No one?

Says who, YOU? Who tf are you?

Majerus, for one, said we should be in the MVC, though he finally gave up when he realized it was futile with knucklehead Biondi, and quit bringing it up, like most employees do when they realize they are fighting a losing was againt the CEO.

A LOT of smart notable alumni and ex SLU athletes thought we should be in the MVC intead of A-10. Some do not post here. Some are political and keep their mouth shut for the "good of the church".

That was a ploy to try to get charter fligths from Biondi. I don't think he really believed that. He also talked about the quality of A-10 basketball and the dream of ending up with the Big East schools.