Today in the A10

[Taj79]

This morning's results of last ngiht's A10 games have shown me that the early season path has changed significantly since league play went into full swing.

Xavier beat St. Joe's which shows me Xavier has finally righted the ship from the Cincy brawl. Four and one in the conference; big road game at Dayton on ESPN2 Saturday afternoon. I'll be watching for sure. St. Joe's has started to show itself for what it is .. a young team still in development. They played admirably at Xavier losing by only despite the absence of A10 leading scorer Carl Jones with an ankle sprain. I want to see what Xavier does at Dayton; a win there definitely shows they stil rulethe league. A loss makes them stil the favorite in my book, but mortal.

Temple beat La Salle by six at home last night taking both to 2 and 2 in league play. Temple is a notch lower than usual but still #2 in my A10 book. La Salle, much like St. Joe's, is being exposed as a road dog --- which shows hwo just winning evenm a few road games takes you upand out of th emiddle muck this league is known for.

Duquesne beating Umass is double ditto like the above. Win at home, lose on road. Two middle-of-the-pack teams along with La Salle and St. Joe's. It appears the home schedules of a lot of our A10 brethern are incredibly weak, leading to debunk some of the early feel-good straks that are Umass and La Salle bein gundefeated at home. A mirage.

Isn't it appropriate that the two bottom feeders --- Fordham and Rhode island --- went down to a final, three-point shot to give the home stabnding Rams a two point win? Whatever happened to Akeem Richmond from Rhodey? The short little three-point sniper from the last two years? He's not on URIs roster. Just wondering.

Charlotte beat Kennesaw State at home. Ho-hum.

The strange one in my book is what GeeDub did to Richmond, beating them by almost 20 in DC. I find this amazing because GeeDub is terrible and Richmond just destroyed Temple at home. Richmond is strange; but still appears to be a middle-of-the-pack team.

Dayton still wins at home but lost it's first road game at the Bonnies. Seem they middle-of-the pack as well. Same with the Bonnies. The separation for spots 3 and 4 seem to be who can win at home and add about four road games. What kind of team are we? We're back to even ... losing at home to Temple meant we had to win at Charlotte for balance. Losing at home to anyone else really hurts and cannot happen. And Xaviere looms. Yet in the recent past, we have lost at home in the A10 to the likes of Rhode Island, La Salle, Dayton and Richmond.

To be the tope two are still Xavier and Temple. Who separates from the pack to take 3 and 4 seems to be between Dayton and us right now although I still have road reservations on us at this point. Going to be one crowded race as I see it.

[slu72]

I'd agree, Taj Mahal, that if X beats UD at the Flyer's hangar, X is back to playing top ten form and probably going to go 15-1 or 14-2 (lose to us at the Fetz). That Temple game was a nasty L. You just can't afford to lose at home, because there are so many pitfalls on the road. Still, if the Bills can get back to the way they were playing in Nov that kind of game travels well. It really hinges on how well they're playing D and rebounding. We saw that in Charlotte when they finally woke up and started causing TOs all over the place. We've been competitive in every game, so we know they can hang on the road. Avoid the implosions we had against UD in OT, make a few more 3s ( up to KM, CE, and MM at this point), and make those damnable FTs, we could go 4-2 on the road to finish at 12-4.

[billiken_roy]

Whatever happened to Akeem Richmond from Rhodey? The short little three-point sniper from the last two years? He's not on URIs roster. Just wondering.

transferred to east carolina last may i believe.

[slu72]

transferred to east carolina last may i believe.

Good riddance. As I recall this kid used to kill us with some unreal 3 point rainbows.

[The Wiz]

No surprises last night .... except the GW win.

An interesting fact......

After last night's win GW, moves from D+ to C-.

GW is now the only A-10 team in the C category.

[Box and Won]

Good riddance. As I recall this kid used to kill us with some unreal 3 point rainbows.

++

Glad he's gone.

[kshoe]

++

Glad he's gone.

Some transfers make sense (i.e. player not good enough goes to a lower school, player doesn't get as much playing time as he wants transfers to a similar school, or the rare player that is a stud and transfers up) but this one is a head scratcher. Kid averaged 9 ppg and 28 minutes as a sophomore for a pretty good program. He must have just hated Barron.

[MB73]

Nice try, but the committtee will no that we played a young sh*tty team. Not seasoned yet.

East coat team on the west coast. At 2:28 p.m. in the afternoon. The committee

remembers this stuff. SLU would be lucky to beat Villanova right now.

Can't win on the road, can't beat top 50 team.

18-19 wins IF WERE lucky. NIT at best, probly CBI.

You can't figure this out, can you? Too complex.

Before the season started, I said we would win about 20 games going into the A-10 Tourney, coming from an 11 win season. SO we will be NIT material, probably, unless some players REALLY stepped up BIG, or our new players had a huge impact.

We came out 6-0 with wins over BC, Nova, and Ok, I thought perhaps we were ahead of my expectations and had a great chance. But these wins were not as impressive as we thought at the time.

Now we are back in the situation where we are 13-4 and need to win 10 of 12 to get 23 wins going into the A-10, correct? If we go 8-4, thats 21 wins.

Knowledgeable people know that the committes don't just go by W-L, they focus upon strength of schedule, quality wins against top teams, and road wins against good teams.

Thats why there are so many teams from power conferences in the tourney. We are in a mid-major conference.

So why do you continue to harp on this matter? Our SOS is > 100, what quality wins do we have, what good teams have we beat on the road? TELL ME.

The kids still can do it, if they go 10-2, beat X at least once, beat Dayton at home, and avoid road losses to some pretty good teams like St. Joe.

So?

(And yes, NCAA & NIT committee people would be smart enough to assess that our home win against a young Washington team early in the year at 11am CST is not like beating them later in the yr at a reasonable time of day. You aren't that smart, though, obviously)

[SShoe]

(And yes, NCAA & NIT committee people would be smart enough to assess that our home win against a young Washington team early in the year at 11am CST is not like beating them later in the yr at a reasonable time of day. You aren't that smart, though, obviously)

Actually, the NCAA committee has repeatedly insisted that they do not give additional weight to teams' play at the end of the season, but they equally consider the entire body of work from November to March. Hence, a win in November is essentially the same as a win in February. Given this consideration, the committee should not downgrade our win vs. Washington just because it occurred against a young team in November.

We sort of got screwed by this method two years ago because the team we had become by year's end was far better than the team that began the season (general maturation, addition of Cody, etc.). But, the NCAA and NIT did not think our late wins deserved more merit than our early losses.

[billiken_roy]

Actually, the NCAA committee has repeatedly insisted that they do not give additional weight to teams' play at the end of the season, but they equally consider the entire body of work from November to March. Hence, a win in November is essentially the same as a win in February. Given this consideration, the committee should not downgrade our win vs. Washington just because it occurred against a young team in November.

We sort of got screwed by this method two years ago because the team we had become by year's end was far better than the team that began the season (general maturation, addition of Cody, etc.). But, the NCAA and NIT did not think our late wins deserved more merit than our early losses.

i think the ncaa committee speak each year is geared to telling the world whatever they need to tell them to justify as many bcs schools as possible without looking overly corrupt.

i am praying for the murray state undefeated season. and then nothing would be better than murray state and slu both making the final four. of course i am sure we would play each other and the other side of the bracket will be syracuse vs north carolina or kansas and kentucky.

[MB73]

Actually, the NCAA committee has repeatedly insisted that they do not give additional weight to teams' play at the end of the season, but they equally consider the entire body of work from November to March. Hence, a win in November is essentially the same as a win in February. Given this consideration, the committee should not downgrade our win vs. Washington just because it occurred against a young team in November.

We sort of got screwed by this method two years ago because the team we had become by year's end was far better than the team that began the season (general maturation, addition of Cody, etc.). But, the NCAA and NIT did not think our late wins deserved more merit than our early losses.

Thats what they say, yes.

And they say all of the players are "student athletes".

Etc.

[moytoy12]

Actually, the NCAA committee has repeatedly insisted that they do not give additional weight to teams' play at the end of the season, but they equally consider the entire body of work from November to March. Hence, a win in November is essentially the same as a win in February. Given this consideration, the committee should not downgrade our win vs. Washington just because it occurred against a young team in November.

We sort of got screwed by this method two years ago because the team we had become by year's end was far better than the team that began the season (general maturation, addition of Cody, etc.). But, the NCAA and NIT did not think our late wins deserved more merit than our early losses.

I don't think you know who you're dealing with.

[The Wiz]

Beating Wash was (and still is ) a quality win no matter where we beat them or what time. In fact, you could say the win in Nov was better (when they were A-) than a win today (B rated) I disagree about the young and inexperienced stuff. I say we beat a better team in Nov. Maybe they were never fully able to recover from the loss to us.

[SShoe]

I don't think you know who you're dealing with.

Ha ha, are you referencing the NCAA or MB?

[kwyjibo]

Actually, the NCAA committee has repeatedly insisted that they do not give additional weight to teams' play at the end of the season, but they equally consider the entire body of work from November to March. Hence, a win in November is essentially the same as a win in February. Given this consideration, the committee should not downgrade our win vs. Washington just because it occurred against a young team in November. We sort of got screwed by this method two years ago because the team we had become by year's end was far better than the team that began the season (general maturation, addition of Cody, etc.). But, the NCAA and NIT did not think our late wins deserved more merit than our early losses.

Record in last 10 games was a selection criteria at one point. Many bracketologists used it in their work. Generally, the committee has gotten away from publicly announcing their criteria and methods because, I assume, they do not want their own words used against them. There have been several teams that have had really bad profiles whose only strong argument was late season hotness that got selected (Washington got selected with an RPI of over 70 one year).

The statistical methods (RPI/Sagarin) give no extra weight to when the game was played.

[SShoe]

i think the ncaa committee speak each year is geared to telling the world whatever they need to tell them to justify as many bcs schools as possible without looking overly corrupt.

While I think you're probably right about the NCAA's general motives, I'm not sure I see how putting equal weight on early games vs. later games makes much difference in the BCS vs. non-BCS discussion. In fact, I might argue that it benefits non-BCS teams because early in the season is the only time that non-BCS teams get a shot.

[MB73]

Beating Wash was (and still is ) a quality win no matter where we beat them or what time. In fact, you could say the win in Nov was better (when they were A-) than a win today (B rated) I disagree about the young and inexperienced stuff. I say we beat a better team in Nov. Maybe they were never fully able to recover from the loss to us.

Washington is 11-6, RPI 86, Pac 12 is 9th in RPI behind MVC and A-10... their best win was at home, beat Oregon.

I know there are other rankings besides RPI. Sagarin is very shaky IMO. KenPom, others are out there.

Again, SOS, wins against, say, Top 50 teams, and road wins are what matters after you get to 20 wins, and it is tough to get in when you belong to a mid major as BRoy states. It is skewed to the BCS teams, but, hey, they are pretty good teams.

Thats why the BCS teams get in, they beat some very very good teams then stink against some mediocre ones... like Indiana, they have trouble keeping the kids "up" for every game and sometimes come out flat against a non conference team like Nebraska.

[kwyjibo]

A little googling and I found that the NCAA is trying to be transparent this year and list all their selection information at this link:

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1 [EDIT: this is the wrong link this is right http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2011/2012+01-01+mbb+nitty+gritty ]

I presume they will be adding things (like top 50 wins, etc.) but I think SShoe may be right and that they will not use "last 10" as an official criteria.

[moytoy12]

Ha ha, are you referencing the NCAA or MB?

MB, but you're right, it could equally apply to the NCAA.

[kwyjibo]

Ok I got the link wrong above. THIS is the official NCAA Nitty Gritty report:

http://www.ncaa.org/...bb+nitty+gritty

No last 10 games as criteria. I gotta say we need a top 50 win.

[WestCoastBilliken]

I think moytoy and company just like to fight with MB73. Everything he has said in this thread is correct. Just not seeing where he is going wrong.

[moytoy12]

I think moytoy and company just like to fight with MB73. Everything he has said in this thread is correct. Just not seeing where he is going wrong.

He's an easy target.

Yes, we need additional wins. I think we'll get there. We get to 23 regular season wins (22 not counting UIS) and I think we're in. I don't think i have necessarily disagreed with MB's need for road wins, top 50 wins, etc. I think we will get those in the next 12 games.

MB has gone from "the WR debacle has killed this program", to "18-19 wins and we might get an NIT bid", to "20 wins", to "we look great after 6-0", to "Charlotte is a decent team", to "Charlotte is a sh*tty team", etc. I think we have some wins that will look good, not great, at the end of the season (OU, Wash, 'nova). I have a little fun at his expense.

I happen to see a team that played like a top 15 team at one point and then lost their mojo. MB is generally negative about our results.

If we shoot the 3 ball consistent with our early season percentage, we can hang with anyone in the country. If we don't hit it, we can get beat by a lot of teams, including bad ones.

[Box and Won]

i think the ncaa committee speak each year is geared to telling the world whatever they need to tell them to justify as many bcs schools as possible without looking overly corrupt.

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THIS.

[jbizzle09]

Washington is 11-6, RPI 86, Pac 12 is 9th in RPI behind MVC and A-10... their best win was at home, beat Oregon.

I know there are other rankings besides RPI. Sagarin is very shaky IMO. KenPom, others are out there.

Again, SOS, wins against, say, Top 50 teams, and road wins are what matters after you get to 20 wins, and it is tough to get in when you belong to a mid major as BRoy states. It is skewed to the BCS teams, but, hey, they are pretty good teams.

Thats why the BCS teams get in, they beat some very very good teams then stink against some mediocre ones... like Indiana, they have trouble keeping the kids "up" for every game and sometimes come out flat against a non conference team like Nebraska.

Except, of course, that Nebraska is in the Big 10.

[jbizzle09]

The following games have RPI implications for SLU today:

Washington vs. Cal

LMU at BYU

BC at NC State

Both BC and LMU are major underdogs, so if either one can pickup a win, that can only help us out where RPI is concerned. I believe Washington is a slight favorite in its game. If they can pick up a win against Cal, whose RPI is in the 30s, they will definitely see a nice bump. At the very least, this gives us some rooting interests in games tonight.