West Pine Jim Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Do we have a better fundamentally sound outside jumpshooter than Cassity ? Ellis, I suppose? Too often , late in the shot clock Kyle has passed up an open look and then Ellis has to rush up a 3 or JJ or someone else has to drive and shoot in traffic. Kyle, please shoot the ball. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 to vehemently insist cassity has to go is nothing short of attacking majerus coaching imo. Roy, the only person calling for Cassity to go is the person who started this thread (I didn't even need to look at the name to know who it was). What people want is for him to justify his starting lineup position and his minutes. He's asleep out there. Jett and McCall are not without flaws but they are at least contributing in tangible, visible ways. Majerus has used the exact same starting lineup for the first 15 games; it seems clear that barring injury or something else drastic, that isn't going to change. But Cassity is not earning his minutes right now, that much is abundantly clear. I know you want to support the good kid from the IL-side, but you're running out of reasons other than homerism to back him up at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 look, while i am majerus' biggest detractor, i have always admitted he is a very good x's and o's basketball coach. if rickma thinks kyle cassity should get the minutes he is getting considering he has jett and mccall there to step in, by gosh, you got to believe he knows what is best. to vehemently insist cassity has to go is nothing short of attacking majerus coaching imo. there obviously are short comings to mccall and jett that are greater than the reluctance of kyle cassity to shoot. again, i am extremely p!ssed about last night's outcome as well. but cassity isnt at the top of my list of blame. he is part of it as i agree his numbers from last night cant be defended beyond he didnt make any mistakes. but there are others that can be blamed a hell of a lot more. last night was a team loss. they didnt shoot well. the bigs really did a bad job. they made the dayton stiffs look pretty darn good. my gosh, the lack of hustle by all the bigs not named conklin last night defending the back court picks was horrible. i think remeken and loe and ellis all got beat at least twice not hustling back after the initial jump out on the pick. some of the passes were just beyond explanation. i mean not even close. and those came from mitchell and jett. we missed way too many free throws. does no good for evans and conklin to make those drives to the basket to get contact if they cant make the free throws. and last, if everyone wants to blame cassity, then you got to blame the coaches that put him out there for 27 minutes. forget it and move on. the good news is that xu stumbled as well. so it's one less game they have to overcome on them. the bad news is it appears temple is real good. better than i expected. I think what we are saying is we disagree with RM. I like RM and feel he is a great coach, however, that doesn't obligate me to agree with everything he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This whole "JJ can't shoot outside of 4 feet" is just b.s. I proved it last year with a detailed post. JJ is again proving it with his 52% shooting percentage from the field this year. Not all of these are layups. I don't have the time to detail each game, but the simple eye test shows me he is making the jump shot at a consistent rate. His FT %age is an entirely different story and ripe for criticism. Yes, JJ has 8 more turnovers than KC, but generally speaking, I believe his other attributes outweigh these TOs and ultimately the cost/benefit of JJ or KC comes out in favor of JJ. We all hate turnovers, but at least JJ's seem to be a product of being aggressive. I don't like it, but I'd rather TO's be of the aggressive nature. KC moves the ball around the perimeter on offense, but what else has he really done? And his defense has been ok at best. He is consistently beat 1 v. 1. I'm surprised RM has played him as much as he has. All this being said, KM has been the biggest bust so far in my mind. Poor shots, poor decisions, poor crunch time play, poor FT %age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I haven't seen much from KC defensively this year either. He seems like he's getting beaten by his man constantly and he doesn't have the quickness to catch up. It's the same with MM a lot of the time too. Then our big men have to step in and try to take a charge but on the road, it's going to be called a block a lot of the time. KM has been very disappointing, but the offense doesn't look the same without him. I feel like the ball hardly gets into the post when he isn't in the game. It's just passing the ball around on the perimeter. Yes he hasn't shot the ball well and hasn't had the best decision making, In the last 5 games KM has 24 assists and 3 turnovers so he's still contributing a lot to the team. He's also at least TRIED to take control. Even though he made some bad decisions last night, it sometimes seems like no one else wants to even try to take over. That isn't KC's game, but as a senior, he should be able to be counted on to at least attempt to take over if necessary. Final thought, people seem to be really high on MM after the last couple of games and I just don't see it. He plays well when KM isn't on the floor, but he constantly defers to him when KM is out there. Also, you never want to rush a 3, but last night we're down 7 with 35 seconds left and MM is doing exactly what KM was doing and that's driving into 3 guys right by the basket. You don't have to jack up a 3 there, but you go for the layup if it's an easy shot, I'd rather MM drive in and kick out to someone that keep going into 3 guys. The same applies to KM when he did it. It's not like either one of them hit free throws last night so the argument that you get to the line doesn't really apply here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenFan27 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 mitchell was the most disappointing player on the floor last night imo. too many missed shots, definitely outplayed by retread siu player. stupid fouls. cassity is what he is. no one ever promised he was going to be an offensive jaugernaut. he plays solid defense, doesnt make mistakes. currently he is 25th in the nation in assists to turnover ratio. i guarantee you if kyle wasnt doing what he is supposed to be doing, he wouldnt be playing considering we have plenty of guards with skills. to make the statement he should be benched or even more outrageously cut/released is crazy talk. we should be thrilled we have at least one player that consistently keeps his cool, runs the plays, plays the game. you can leap to the contention that jett or mccall would be so much better, mccall got burned on drives to the basket last night more than anyone but mitchell. jett doesnt appear can shoot beyond 4 feet. games like last night are won by your stars. as much as i love what mitchell and conklin have done this year, last night combined they shot bad, had terrible fouls and terrible decisions. Well-stated billiken_roy. Cassity is on the team for a reason. Yeah, he isn't the offensive threat we all would like him to be but he creates openings for other players and gives good looks. He's known to have plenty of assists to back it up. Obviously, Rick Ma places his trust in Cassity as he knows that he is a smart senior who knows how to play the game. I'm sure we could all find reasons to complain as to why the Billikens are not playing the same ball they were early in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't know how to say this but, I AGREE WITH METZ!!! We cannot aford to play 4 against 5 when Cassity is on the floor. He refuses to shoot open shoots and no longer has a desire to drive to the hoop. +1 I've lost count of the # of games our starting shooting guard put up -0- points. He should be coming off the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If he's not going to score, he needs to blank his man to be effective. That's hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 +1 I've lost count of the # of games our shooting point guard put up -0- points. He should be coming off the bench. Shooting guard is supposed to be a scoring guard, I just don't see it. If he is a great distributor, move him to the point and move KM and MM to the 2 guard spot. I am not sure that is the answer, but it is better than what we have right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Shooting guard is supposed to be a scoring guard, I just don't see it. If he is a great distributor, move him to the point and move KM and MM to the 2 guard spot. I am not sure that is the answer, but it is better than what we have right now. the 4 FTs is PATHETIC. playing his kind of minutes, he should have dudes just accidentally tripping and falling into him enough to get to the line more than that. i think he truly can be a good player, but he needs to grow some gotdamn balls. i don't understand how he can room w/ BC and see the enforcer say, "FUOK THIS, i'm scoring." and not step it up himself. yeah, he's 0-10 from three the last 5 or 6 games, but motherfuok, just sack up and keep shooting it. actually, fuok that. take it to the rack! get blocked! get the ball stripped! i just watched "searching for bobby fischer again" and he kicked that little pisshead jonathan poe's ass only because he brought his queen out. he was a nice guy, too, even offered the little sh!t a draw when he knew he had mate in like 13 moves. cassity can continue to be a nice guy while ripping the opponent's gotdamn heart out. no one wants him to be an offensive juggernaut. we want him to play like more than a gotdamn practice dummy. hell, RM should MAKE HIM take 2-3 shots of GOTDAMN FUOKING WHISKEY before road games. i'm dead gotdamn serious. pull your head out. you're better than this, KC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The play that told the story on Cassity last night was the one late in the 2nd half when McCall was driving in the lane and dished to Cassity who was wide open for a three. Rather than staying put to give McCall an open target and himself a scoring opportunity he started to rotate out front. Obviously this suprised McCall who through the ball to the spot Cassity had been and resulted in a turnover. The purpose of our offense is to get open looks. He was in a position to have an open look and didn't even consider it. Majerus pulled him and he remained on the bench the rest of the game. Majerus must be frustrated with him because he didn't play during crunch time. His playing time will shrink if he doesn't get more aggressive. I agree that KMs play is frustrating, but he's making aggressive mistakes. Often those aggressive plays pay off. I can tolerate that a lot more than Cassity's play. You can't make a basket if you don't put it up. You also make yourself easier to guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Driving from Dallas to St. Louis today and stopped off at a Choctaw casino in BFO to collect my thoughts from last night and it is clear that Kyle Cassity needs to find some pine the rest of the way out. I'm sure the kid loves his Mom and Jesus and all that, but he need to love winning games for Saint Louis University first and foremost. Where is the desire? Chime in folks. Backhand has been saying this since KC's sophomore year. I have been in constant arguments with Eastsidehoe over this topic (looks like eastside my finally see the light). KC is invisible on the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Mods - Please ban Bobby Metzinger immediately for his continued assault on a deceased member of the equine species. His constant abuse to the remains of said horse not only disrupts it from being able to rest in peace, but is totally against the principles of the Jesuit faith and and the institution of Saint Louis University. I feel an example should be made of this particular poster. May the everlasting love and peace of Jesus be with all of you! Gotta agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgtholt88 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If the Dayton announcers could tell the difference between Kyle and Cody, Kyle's name would not have been mentioned outside of the starting lineups. No kidding.. At one point I thought they even said Cody Ellis to Ellis at the top of the key... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doowop Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Roy, the only person calling for Cassity to go is the person who started this thread (I didn't even need to look at the name to know who it was). What people want is for him to justify his starting lineup position and his minutes. He's asleep out there. Jett and McCall are not without flaws but they are at least contributing in tangible, visible ways. Majerus has used the exact same starting lineup for the first 15 games; it seems clear that barring injury or something else drastic, that isn't going to change. But Cassity is not earning his minutes right now, that much is abundantly clear. I know you want to support the good kid from the IL-side, but you're running out of reasons other than homerism to back him up at this point.You are right on with this post. It's obvious broy is prejudiced toward Cassity. A senior with as much experience as Cassity should to contribute more than he has, especially on a night when the other players were having trouble scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawyerbilliken07 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You are right on with this post. It's obvious broy is prejudiced toward Cassity. A senior with as much experience as Cassity should to contribute more than he has, especially on a night when the other players were having trouble scoring. I agree with broy. Sometimes I wish Kyle would shoot more, but he still brings a heckuva lot to the table. The offense runs much better when he's on the floor, he's a much better defender than MM (although JJ did the best job on Dillard last night), and he's a reliable ballhandler. Rickma knows what he's doing. Sometimes, though, I wish the attributes of KC, MM, and JJ could be combined into two really good players. Then it wouldn't be always thinking "I wish MM was just a little bigger or a little better defender," or "I wish KC would shoot like MM," or "I wish JJ was a little more careful with the ball." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I agree with broy. Sometimes I wish Kyle would shoot more, but he still brings a heckuva lot to the table. The offense runs much better when he's on the floor, he's a much better defender than MM (although JJ did the best job on Dillard last night), and he's a reliable ballhandler. Rickma knows what he's doing. Sometimes, though, I wish the attributes of KC, MM, and JJ could be combined into two really good players. Then it wouldn't be always thinking "I wish MM was just a little bigger or a little better defender," or "I wish KC would shoot like MM," or "I wish JJ was a little more careful with the ball." ... or I wish RL would be more aggressive or JB would stick his 3s. Guess we have to play with who we've got. I always wish Bonner had one year of eligibility left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenROAR Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think KM needs to develop a little more trust with the sophomores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The biggest problem with Kyle is he isn't attacking the basket. He's taken 19 2 pt fg's in 15 games. A few of those have to be midrange shots which means he's driving once or less per game. That tells you either he isn't taking advantage of opportunities or his defender is laying off him. If it were the latter he should have more 3 pt fg attempts, but he doesn't. He's down about 2 shots per 25 or so minutes with his 3's being about equal to last year. It's also affecting his ability to get to the line. He's never gotten there alot, but he's gone from one every 23 minutes to one every 93 minutes so he's at about 25% of what he was last year. I can appreciate the intangibles he brings to the game and I'm not looking for him to suddenly become this offensive force, however attacking the basket once per game isn't going to cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I haven't seen much from KC defensively this year either. He seems like he's getting beaten by his man constantly and he doesn't have the quickness to catch up. It's the same with MM a lot of the time too. Then our big men have to step in and try to take a charge but on the road, it's going to be called a block a lot of the time. KM has been very disappointing, but the offense doesn't look the same without him. I feel like the ball hardly gets into the post when he isn't in the game. It's just passing the ball around on the perimeter. Yes he hasn't shot the ball well and hasn't had the best decision making, In the last 5 games KM has 24 assists and 3 turnovers so he's still contributing a lot to the team. He's also at least TRIED to take control. Even though he made some bad decisions last night, it sometimes seems like no one else wants to even try to take over. That isn't KC's game, but as a senior, he should be able to be counted on to at least attempt to take over if necessary. Final thought, people seem to be really high on MM after the last couple of games and I just don't see it. He plays well when KM isn't on the floor, but he constantly defers to him when KM is out there. Also, you never want to rush a 3, but last night we're down 7 with 35 seconds left and MM is doing exactly what KM was doing and that's driving into 3 guys right by the basket. You don't have to jack up a 3 there, but you go for the layup if it's an easy shot, I'd rather MM drive in and kick out to someone that keep going into 3 guys. The same applies to KM when he did it. It's not like either one of them hit free throws last night so the argument that you get to the line doesn't really apply here. 24 assists and 3 turnovers in the last 5 games? I show 13-2 and 7 of those were in a blow out win, so it's 6 in the other 4. It clearly isn't like he's creating an abundance of offense. 2.6 pg over the last 5. 1.5 per game if without the 7 assist game. He's also taken a grand total of 15 shots over those 5 games. I didn't count boards, but I remember a couple were zero so I won't be surprised if he has less than 10 over the 5 game span. Hell, I won't be surprised if he has less than 5 as he'd have to make an aggressive move to go get the ball once in a while to get 10. The good thing is his minutes are down a couple per game over the last 5. He averaged 25.6 over the 1st 10 and 23.4 over the last 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Do we have a better fundamentally sound outside jumpshooter than Cassity ? Ellis, I suppose? Too often , late in the shot clock Kyle has passed up an open look and then Ellis has to rush up a 3 or JJ or someone else has to drive and shoot in traffic. Kyle, please shoot the ball. Thank you.If he isn't going to shoot nor drive what difference does it make how fundamentally sound he is? And don't you think it is a bit late to be begging a senior in his last semester of college ball to shoot the ball? I'd start JJ with Kwamain. JJ might not have the prettiest shot but he'll score and play very solid defense. Having Kyle come off the bench might help him. If sitting next to coach watching someone else out on the court take his spot doesn't light a fire under Kyle then nothing will. I'd even consider giving some of Kyle's minutes to Barnett despite the flaws in his game. Barnett is nowhere near on the level of ball handler / distributor that Kyle is but he will show no fear catching and shooting from the wing. This team desperately needs a catch and shoot guard to park his ass on the wing and allow our other slashers to get him open looks. Loe and Ellis are our only real catch and shoot players but both are streaky. We need a guard to hit open looks from the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 24 assists and 3 turnovers in the last 5 games? I show 13-2 and 7 of those were in a blow out win, so it's 6 in the other 4. It clearly isn't like he's creating an abundance of offense. 2.6 pg over the last 5. 1.5 per game if without the 7 assist game. He's also taken a grand total of 15 shots over those 5 games. I didn't count boards, but I remember a couple were zero so I won't be surprised if he has less than 10 over the 5 game span. Hell, I won't be surprised if he has less than 5 as he'd have to make an aggressive move to go get the ball once in a while to get 10. The good thing is his minutes are down a couple per game over the last 5. He averaged 25.6 over the 1st 10 and 23.4 over the last 5. He was stating that KM has 24 and 3 over the last 5 games. Looks like he segued to KM after starting his post about KC. I will say, if KC had 24 to 3 over the last 5 games, we probably wouldn't be nearly as frustrated with him right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 One has to wonder if Kyle is injured...I have come to expect his serious lack of aggression on the offensive end, but going scoreless in 4 of 6 games is unprecedented especially considering the minutes he is getting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 One has to wonder if Kyle is injured...I have come to expect his serious lack of aggression on the offensive end, but going scoreless in 4 of 6 games is unprecedented especially considering the minutes he is getting...He is stepping into Dwayne Polk territory. I think he went 10 games without scoring while playing 25 minutes a game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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