Reality is hard to take

[billikenblue]

Bay Area Billiken referenced my comment after the AP game that we lost the Heart (Mitchell) and Soul(Reed) of our team while most of the faithful felt we will still be ok, We lost the intangibles of leadership and belief in ourselves that is so critical to the success of a BASKETBALL TEAM---Confidence and a swagger are gone and I would say to you who do we have a leader to stem the tide...and now we are saying this is the worst team since 04/05.The reality is that we have much more Talent but we lack the intangibles mentioned and this is reflected in the regression instead of progression of the freshman who have talent, It also sapped the confidence of our Coaches who have had the potential of getting over the hump at SLU taken away from them FOR THIS YEAR. OUR expectations after the loss was a little off base( i said in October that Rick would be challenged to avoid his first losing season) and leads to craziness about the REALITY of the talent and the future success that CAN happen in 2011/2012. Temper your expectations and hope that Rick and his coaches have not HAD IT and also Hang in there for the promise of success ahead.

[BBall Fan]

Bay Area Billiken referenced my comment after the AP game that we lost the Heart (Mitchell) and Soul(Reed) of our team while most of the faithful felt we will still be ok, We lost the intangibles of leadership and belief in ourselves that is so critical to the success of a BASKETBALL TEAM---Confidence and a swagger are gone and I would say to you who do we have a leader to stem the tide...and now we are saying this is the worst team since 04/05.The reality is that we have much more Talent but we lack the intangibles mentioned and this is reflected in the regression instead of progression of the freshman who have talent, It also sapped the confidence of our Coaches who have had the potential of getting over the hump at SLU taken away from them FOR THIS YEAR. OUR expectations after the loss was a little off base( i said in October that Rick would be challenged to avoid his first losing season) and leads to craziness about the REALITY of the talent and the future success that CAN happen in 2011/2012. Temper your expectations and hope that Rick and his coaches have not HAD IT and also Hang in there for the promise of success ahead.

Very well said

[Bizziken]

Reality is that a very young, inexperienced, and unbalanced team is playing a Strength of Schedule that is among the 15th hardest in the Nation...

[Bay Area Billiken]

At the risk of stating the obvious, I think what SLU really needs is a win, some way, somehow. Winning cures a lot of ills. The team is snakebitten.

I really don't think it's a complete lack of talent. Rather, I agree that it concerns the intangibles, and of course, The Situation.

I do agree with others that some changes to the offense are warranted. And I've advocated playing some zone defense.

St. Joe's at Chaifetz Arena is next on the docket, and that's a good place to reverse the current trend.

[Bizziken]

At the risk of stating the obvious, I think what SLU really needs is a win, some way, somehow. Winning cures a lot of ills. The team is snakebitten.

I really don't think it's a complete lack of talent. Rather, I agree that it concerns the intangibles.

I do agree with others that some changes to the offense are warranted. And I've advocated playing some zone defense.

St. Joe's is next on the docket, and that's a good place to reverse the current trend.

Despite our many shortcomings, we have been in some very winnable games (Austin Peay, Georgia, Southern Miss, Ole Miss, Bowling Green, and Temple)

A few minor adjustments and THIS team is 8-8, 9-7, or even 10-6...

[Bay Area Billiken]

Despite our many shortcomings, SLU has been in some very winnable games (Austin Peay, Georgia, Southern Miss, Ole Miss, Bowling Green, and Temple)

A few minor adjustments and THIS team is 8-8, 9-7, or even 10-6...

Agreed. Somehow SLU needs to get over that hump, get the job done at crunch time. It's become a broken record for me, but that's Kwamain Time. I'm sure Austin Peay and Georgia would have been wins. SLU led almost the whole game against Georgia.

[BBall Fan]

Despite our many shortcomings, we have been in some very winnable games (Austin Peay, Georgia, Southern Miss, Ole Miss, Bowling Green, and Temple)

A few minor adjustments and THIS team is 8-8, 9-7, or even 10-6...

Agreed, The defense has held us in games but it all comes down to offensive execution and taking care of the ball. 20 turnovers and 10+ missed layups tonight against Duquesne. 10 turnovers and just 5 of those layups makes that a game. Not lack of talent, lack of focus and rhythm.

[BBall Fan]

Agreed. Somehow SLU needs to get over that hump, get the job done at crunch time. It's become a broken record for me, but that's Kwamain Time. I'm sure Austin Peay and Georgia would have been wins. SLU led almost the whole game against Georgia.

+ temple, +Dayton +southern miss + ole miss

[slu72]

+ temple, +Dayton +southern miss + ole miss

So, we're not that far away. But losing is sometime infectious to the point you think we cannot win. Therefore, you'll lose. Confidence. They need a W and need it bad. This is truly "The Lost Season." I just hope they keep it together until next year. It would be a shame to see all the experience that is being gathered walk away and take it someplace else.

[Taj79]

I agree we lost the "heart" and "soul." Or something like that. I agree we have no one to shine during "Kwamain time." I agree "The Situation" sapped the team of its "confidence" and "swagger." I agree that the "intangibles" are very low (or something like that) with this team. I agree that it is a bit much to ask role players to step out of their assumed role and assume others. With all that said .....

..... how does one rationalize that we have "talent" on this team given our current stance in life? I'm not asking for specifics, I believe you all and know it is there. But if it is there, where does it go during the 40 games minutes on the clock???? This is the part that vexes and galls me most ---- if we are to truly give this coaching staff the credit for recruiting these gems, who takes the hit when the gems don't shine? Even remotely?

I remember the line about not rooting for the f--ker from Minnesota. Hey, Minnesota was a stroll down the country lane compared to getting three recruits from halfway around the world. This porgram --- the administration, the athletic department and especially the million dollar, HOF coach have to be held to higher standards. Yes, we blew some tires on this road trip to WallyWorld, but am I the only one completely stunned that spares and patches are not available?

[Tonka]

I agree we lost the "heart" and "soul." Or something like that. I agree we have no one to shine during "Kwamain time." I agree "The Situation" sapped the team of its "confidence" and "swagger." I agree that the "intangibles" are very low (or something like that) with this team. I agree that it is a bit much to ask role players to step out of their assumed role and assume others. With all that said .....

..... how does one rationalize that we have "talent" on this team given our current stance in life? I'm not asking for specifics, I believe you all and know it is there. But if it is there, where does it go during the 40 games minutes on the clock???? This is the part that vexes and galls me most ---- if we are to truly give this coaching staff the credit for recruiting these gems, who takes the hit when the gems don't shine? Even remotely?

I remember the line about not rooting for the f--ker from Minnesota. Hey, Minnesota was a stroll down the country lane compared to getting three recruits from halfway around the world. This porgram --- the administration, the athletic department and especially the million dollar, HOF coach have to be held to higher standards. Yes, we blew some tires on this road trip to WallyWorld, but am I the only one completely stunned that spares and patches are not available?

I agree with this.

I am starting to think that maybe RM is successful under a set blueprint, as was stated by another poster. He recruits to that blueprint and can even develop players that meet certain criteria to fit that blueprint. BUT, if that blueprint is off or not the ideal blueprint, I think he struggles. Well, SLU may not be the place that allows to have that perfect blueprint.

Again, I am just starting to think this way. I am not completely sold on this. I just think from what we have seen with RM so far and the running off of some players tells me that the players he will be successful with have to fit a very small mold. The problem with this is that there aren't that many players out there like that or if something changes it's hard for him to adapt.

I think a good coach in today's game has to be able to adapt around the players he has. Sure, you recruit players to your style, but you also adapt to their strengths. In today's world, you have to win now and waiting to have a full team of ideal players could be a long wait.

I may just be feeling this way after that loss last night.

[Taj79]

The dinosaurs didn't adapt .... and look what happened to them ... not too good.

As for next year, let's look at the immediate past. In RM's first-to-second year, outside of seniors and walk-ons, he lost four players to transfer (Mitchell, Relaphorde, Maguire, Knollmeyer). Arguably, not "his" players. The next year, he lost two (Daniel Lisch and Brett Thompson). Last year, four more (John, Smith, Reid, Jordan). That's an average of 3.3 scholarship players per year leaving the school and the program.

The current candidates are: Jett, McCall, Salescich, Evans, Ellis, Remekun and Loe.

Making next year's LOADED roster Mitchell, Eckerle, Conklin, Cassity, and Barnett with Reed and Manning possibles.

[Box and Won]

My season tickets may be the worst purchase I've ever made. At least I didn't make my usual year-end donation to the John Cook School of Business this year.

[GOSLU68]

The dinosaurs didn't adapt .... and look what happened to them ... not too good.

As for next year, let's look at the immediate past. In RM's first-to-second year, outside of seniors and walk-ons, he lost four players to transfer (Mitchell, Relaphorde, Maguire, Knollmeyer). Arguably, not "his" players. The next year, he lost two (Daniel Lisch and Brett Thompson). Last year, four more (John, Smith, Reid, Jordan). That's an average of 3.3 scholarship players per year leaving the school and the program.

The current candidates are: Jett, McCall, Salescich, Evans, Ellis, Remekun and Loe.

Making next year's LOADED roster Mitchell, Eckerle, Conklin, Cassity, and Barnett with Reed and Manning possibles.

PE will go to med school- count that against them too if you are counting flunk outs, concussions, cheaters, and accused as RM and PM faults=6 months ago board consensus

was we took too many recruits per year and we should have taken fewer and we had too many guards; I guess Duquesne freshmen guards tearing us up means we now had a bad class

as well. This one time where hindsight just confuses us more

[sarge]

I think I saw Melvin Robinson leave the court last night. The people doing the game were laughing at the Bill's. That is hard to take.

[Supersonic]

I think I saw Melvin Robinson leave the court last night. The people doing the game were laughing at the Bill's. That is hard to take.

Thank God they serve beer at the Fetz...

[jbizzle09]

The dinosaurs didn't adapt .... and look what happened to them ... not too good.

As for next year, let's look at the immediate past. In RM's first-to-second year, outside of seniors and walk-ons, he lost four players to transfer (Mitchell, Relaphorde, Maguire, Knollmeyer). Arguably, not "his" players. The next year, he lost two (Daniel Lisch and Brett Thompson). Last year, four more (John, Smith, Reid, Jordan). That's an average of 3.3 scholarship players per year leaving the school and the program.

The current candidates are: Jett, McCall, Salescich, Evans, Ellis, Remekun and Loe.

Making next year's LOADED roster Mitchell, Eckerle, Conklin, Cassity, and Barnett with Reed and Manning possibles.

Are you really, REALLY counting Daniel Lisch? I also think it is really disingenuous to count Femi and Reid in this list. Femi is gone for good with injuries and still comes out with the team every game. Reid got his lights knocked out and decided to go close to home. But spin it however you want.

I think a real point has been discussed in this thread. This team is not without talent. In fact, the freshmen are all very talented. I would only consider the Duquesne and Duke losses as blowouts. All other losses were games that were winnable down the stretch, where the youth and lack of a veteran go to guy were the main deciding factors in the end.

I, for one, don't have the hopelessness about this team that others have. Has it been tough to watch? Sure. It has been terrible and gut wrenching. But can we please not look for scapegoats other than the major one that has caused this season to be lost (loss of KM and WR)? Can we please just pull back the rhetoric a bit and stop trying to assign blame wherever we think is convenient?

[kshoe]

The dinosaurs didn't adapt .... and look what happened to them ... not too good.

As for next year, let's look at the immediate past. In RM's first-to-second year, outside of seniors and walk-ons, he lost four players to transfer (Mitchell, Relaphorde, Maguire, Knollmeyer). Arguably, not "his" players. The next year, he lost two (Daniel Lisch and Brett Thompson). Last year, four more (John, Smith, Reid, Jordan). That's an average of 3.3 scholarship players per year leaving the school and the program.

The current candidates are: Jett, McCall, Salescich, Evans, Ellis, Remekun and Loe.

Making next year's LOADED roster Mitchell, Eckerle, Conklin, Cassity, and Barnett with Reed and Manning possibles.

Daniel Lisch? Is this serious? Anybody that claims DL was run-off by RM has an agenda. Planin and simple.

Also, Femi John is still at SLU in in the AD. Are you really blaming Majerus for those three knee surgies? Add Cotto to that class if you want to have the full/correct list.

Eckerle will not be back next year. He graduated a season ago and is going to med school this fall. I suspect some with motives will claim that Eckerle was forced out by RM.

Could there be a transfer at the end of this season? Sure. CS would be the most likely candidate given he may see the playing time writing on the wall. But the others have had ample PT and if they leave it will likely be because they flunked out or are homesick.

This roster will be loaded next year.

[AnkielBreakers]

I know I am alone in this, but I think the Billikens are about to bounce back. Let's face it, the problem wtih Freshmen is that they are inconsistent. They will go through streaky phases where they just can't do anything right. The last 10 games have shown a great deal of inconsistency. The early part of the season looked good, and then the wheels came off the wagon.

I expect this team to put it together and finish the season strong. The fact is, only a few weeks ago, we were all talking about how Jett and McCall reminded us of KM as a freshman, and now we are starting to see Loe develop as a post player. Things will get better.

[waldo027]

This year is what last year should have been like. We had a team of all freshman and sophomores and were picked to be near the bottom of the A-10 just purely based on our youth. This year we're playing all freshman and sophomores again, along with a junior guard who still plays like a freshman and a junior forward who struggles to make layups. I think KM and WR spoiled us by playing so well so soon, that we expect the same from this current freshman class.

[kevinfootes]

Despite our many shortcomings, we have been in some very winnable games (Austin Peay, Georgia, Southern Miss, Ole Miss, Bowling Green, and Temple)

A few minor adjustments and THIS team is 8-8, 9-7, or even 10-6...

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

This team doesn't have the experience or leadership YET. It is developing, and I do think this year is a blip. We'll be back to where we were (at least) next barring some unforeseen personnel moves.

This reminds me of the year that Frericks and Bryant got hurt and or missed many games, except that team was in a much better league.

[Bizziken]

I think we are going overboard with the analysis.

Majerus has always preached Defense, and defense is easier to learn and implement than offense.

I have been fairly satisfied with our defensive effort this season. Obviously we have holes- a lack of interior defense being one. BUT, I am happy with the defensive development of our Freshman. At the beginning of the season they were getting beat off the dribble by NovaSE and Stritch, and while we may have temporary breakdowns or trouble with an opposing team's player, we have played decent defense for most of the year.

Offense, on the other hand, takes longer to comprehend, and requires a cohesive effort by the entire team. This is achieved by time spent practicing together, with each player learning the nuances of each other's respective games. By playing 4 freshman, an inexperienced Remekun, Ellis (who only played half a season and had no preseason training), and an offensively challenged Conklin, we are left with CS and KC as being the only remaining players who can facilitate a smooth offensive game. You can throw Salecich out since he has grossly underachieved.

Given that, we have only gotten blown out in 3 games (Duke, Missouri State, and last night), and have had an opportunity to win most of the others. I expect our offense to improve between now and the end of the season, and if it doesn't, then we can look to place blame on coaching.

[Clock_Tower]

I agree we lost the "heart" and "soul." Or something like that. I agree we have no one to shine during "Kwamain time." I agree "The Situation" sapped the team of its "confidence" and "swagger." I agree that the "intangibles" are very low (or something like that) with this team. I agree that it is a bit much to ask role players to step out of their assumed role and assume others. With all that said .....

..... how does one rationalize that we have "talent" on this team given our current stance in life? I'm not asking for specifics, I believe you all and know it is there. But if it is there, where does it go during the 40 games minutes on the clock???? This is the part that vexes and galls me most ---- if we are to truly give this coaching staff the credit for recruiting these gems, who takes the hit when the gems don't shine? Even remotely?

I remember the line about not rooting for the f--ker from Minnesota. Hey, Minnesota was a stroll down the country lane compared to getting three recruits from halfway around the world. This porgram --- the administration, the athletic department and especially the million dollar, HOF coach have to be held to higher standards. Yes, we blew some tires on this road trip to WallyWorld, but am I the only one completely stunned that spares and patches are not available?

Taj. Talent does not equal wins much less road and/or conference wins. We DO have some real talent in MM and JJ. Personally, from the games I personally watched, MM has shown me more than JJ. Neither, though, are ready to lead a team to wins over good teams. When KM played as a Frosh, he did not score 12 ppg. Instead, he quietly did his job while letting KL and TL carry the load. Only at the end of his Frosh year did KM start becoming an offensive threat. Even so, the opposing defenses were still focusing on KL and TL even though they didn't have their best games (mostly referring to TL). We also had BE (Senior) logging some minutes allowing WR, BT and BC to get contribute. On this team, no one is helping RL and DE. Add just KM, and our team has 5 more wins. Add WR and we probably have 6 more wins.

Turnovers such as JJ losng the ball while dribbling up the Court against UD, bad passes/turnovers such as those in the last 4 minutes of the UD game, fouls allowing the opponent to still make the shot and get a FT, poor FTs especially down the stretch -- all cause losses. Raw talent is still there. The problem, of course, is that it is raw.

Things ARE hard to take this year. We are paying the price for not having a Senior on the team, for having "role" players as our remaining JRs, and not having Sophs who are ready to step-up. As previously mentioned, RM done a great job of bringing in Freshmen but has not gotten us any "bridge" players -- JUCOs or transfers. This approach has risk - and when the best/most experienced 2 players are taken away - and the team has been exposed. If we had gotten a guy like JB 1 oer 2 years earlier, or had been able to get JH or SK, then our depth would be less raw -- more seasoned and up to the task. As bad as things are this year, we would have been even worse if The Situation had taken place a year earlier -- if WR and KM had missed last year instead of this year. This year's 4 Frosh are contributing more than last year's Frosh (JS, JJ, CS, CR, CE and JR) did or would do. Along these lines, if The Situation would have happened in the future - next year, such that we have WR and KM this year but not next year, then we'd of course be good this year and next year we'd be better able to replace them. Don't get me wrong, there would still be a huge hole to fill but our Frosh, Sophs and JRs would be Sophs, JRs and SRs and we would also have JB and another 7 footer - albeit a freshman.