With all the transfer talk......

[Pick and Roll]

what you believe that rickma goes in to mom and tells her, how tough he is and that the scholarship is one year and the kid is gonna take it and like it? nice joke.

Sounds to me that the parents and the kids should read the contract and ask questions prior to signing. Do you read every contract you sign line-by-line? When you buy a car do you think they are going to discuss all of the possible bad things that can happen or what will void your warranty? No, that takes away from the excitement and the moment. There is some salesmanship going on; I am sure the number of windsprints each day is not discussed to obtain full disclosure.

[slufanskip]

no i am not that naive, but i am saying that is why the kids should come. the LAST reason they should come is because of the coach and promise that coach will be their to give them a bath and hold their hands when watching a scary movie on cable for the next four years.

last question you asked, i think all coaches insinuate the whole diploma. no way i believe they preach "this is a one year deal and every year we will re-evaluate."

but the kids aren't smart enough to understand that the scholarship is for just 1 year, how are they supposed to understand it's the school not the coach?

It doesn't make sense. The kids should be smart enough to realize they are coming to the school for the school, not the coach who recruited them. However, they shouldn't be smart enough to understand the scholarship agreement is for 1 year, even though it's made clear to them.

[billiken_roy]

Sounds to me that the parents and the kids should read the contract and ask questions prior to signing. Do you read every contract you sign line-by-line? When you buy a car do you think they are going to discuss all of the possible bad things that can happen or what will void your warranty? No, that takes away from the excitement and the moment. There is some salesmanship going on; I am sure the number of windsprints each day is not discussed to obtain full disclosure.

i do read if i dont trust the person selling.

[eastsidejoe]

what you believe that rickma goes in to mom and tells her, how tough he is and that the scholarship is one year and the kid is gonna take it and like it? nice joke.

you are a joke if you think that he tells them all they want to hear.

[billiken_roy]

you are a joke if you think that he tells them all they want to hear.

not sure where you are coming from. what is your definition of "all they want to hear"?

because i think they dont want to hear the truth and he doesnt tell them the truth. he leads them to believe (and all college coaches do imo) they are coming to college for the duration to get a degree.

[moytoy12]

but the kids aren't smart enough to understand that the scholarship is for just 1 year, how are they supposed to understand it's the school not the coach?

It doesn't make sense. The kids should be smart enough to realize they are coming to the school for the school, not the coach who recruited them. However, they shouldn't be smart enough to understand the scholarship agreement is for 1 year, even though it's made clear to them.

And you don't think it's ever implied that it will be renewed in successive years?

Don't you think RM says something like, "When you're a junior..."

[eastsidejoe]

not sure where you are coming from. what is your definition of "all they want to hear"?

because i think they dont want to hear the truth and he doesnt tell them the truth. he leads them to believe (and all college coaches do imo) they are coming to college for the duration to get a degree.

all sugar and no vinegar. thats what i mean by all they want to hear. he tells them the good and the bad in my opinion. i agree that the 1 year scholly is probably not discussed, but i bet the good, the bad and the ugly is discussed. they should all know it is a one year deal imo.

[slufanskip]

And you don't think it's ever implied that it will be renewed in successive years?

Don't you think RM says something like, "When you're a junior..."

so what?

You sell your car to your neighbor who you know is going on vacation in 6 months, so you say to him this car is going to be perfect for your vacation to the Grand Canyon, it's got just the right amount of room for your entire family and will get great gas mileage to boot. However, you of course sell him the car as-is. He knows it's as-is and signs documents for as-is. Uh-oh, the transmission goes out the morning of his trip. I think it's wonderful that you're going to loan him your car for the trip and pay to fix the transmission while it's gone. After all, you did imply he would be able to drive the car on his trip.

[slufanskip]

We ought to really just assume the kids and their parents aren't stupid.

They understand it's a 1 year deal. They probably have the hope and the desire that it will turn into a 4 or a 5 year deal, but they are smart enough to understand that having the 1 year in the contract in the end means that it's not guaranteed and may not be renewed.

They also understand that despite the fact the coach who is recruiting them may leave despite the fact he just signed a 5 year extension. They like the coach of course, he's a main reason why they are choosing that school. However, it is entirely possible he may leave and they will have ot make another decission regarding whether to stay or to transfer.

[Pick and Roll]

i do read if i dont trust the person selling.

Would you read it if you are signing as the representative and on behalf of you child? Regardless if you trust or do not trust the seller.

[thetorch]

Agreed, Bernie would be burying SLU if this was happening to them.

The MVC runs this town. When something bad happens sweep it under the rug. I almost feel bad for SIUC. Their program could be in shambles. No one in St Louis will hear about it though. It could make the MVC look bad.

[brianstl]

The MVC runs this town. When something bad happens sweep it under the rug. I almost feel bad for SIUC. Their program could be in shambles. No one in St Louis will hear about it though. It could make the MVC look bad.

I thought they had a chance to be pretty good next year, but the program now appears to be a mess. I don't see Lowery getting fired anytime soon. They still owe him $3 million.

[Clock_Tower]

[/i][/u]

this is exactly why every coach should take the money and run whenever it is there. while i am not a lowery fan and never have been (i think he is nothing more than a thug teacher), when he had offers coming from everywhere a few years ago and settled for less to stay at siu carbondale, he made a huge mistake. obviously he is on life support now with players leaving in droves a couple of subpar seasons etc whereas just a few years ago the carbondale fans adored him and had proclaimed him the new king. take the money.

In hindsight, you may be correct. I have never been impressed with Lowery. Like you, I do think his teams play like dirty thugs and his style of play is boring. Can Lowery turn things around? I don't know since I don't the program close enough to know why each of the kids leave. Seems like Hare had criminal problems and Roundtree had a drug problem and couldn't fit at either SIUC or that school in Idaho. Hard to blame Lowery for these two situations other than he generally should not have recruited problem kid. Sometimes, the coach is really not to blame. Regarding Booker, maybe he missed his buddy TR. Maybe he just didn't rural setting of Southern IL. I watched him play against us the last two years and he didn't appear to have that many skills. Dillard is the guy that has me more surprised. Because Lowery has recruited top kids in the past, he obviously has some ability to recruit. Now, though, he is going to have to really coach - win with limited talent - which is something that SIUC has not had to do in years.

Believe Lowery, though, is still in his 30's. He's young. Has alot of money still due him under his contract. SIUC will not find that much better. The Valley will also now work against him if it stays a 1 to 2 bid conference with other good competition. Lowery is still the local hero from his playing days. SLU and Mizzou are both stacking their rosters but are not really recruiting the local St. Louis kids. Lowery got talented kids in the past and, w/ alot of playing time to offer, can probably recruit again.

As to whether he should have stayed or gone, short term he should have gone. Long term, though, I am not so sure. If he really wants to be a coach, for 30 plus years, though, what's wrong with a coach spending 10 years at his alma mater before deciding to go to a BCS school. Unless he's the next Coach K, I think the coaches should stay around a lower levels for a while before accepting jobs which, while offered, are really such that they are just not ready for.

[joe_davola]

no i am not that naive, but i am saying that is why the kids should come. the LAST reason they should come is because of the coach and promise that coach will be their to give them a bath and hold their hands when watching a scary movie on cable for the next four years.

last question you asked, i think all coaches insinuate the whole diploma. no way i believe they preach "this is a one year deal and every year we will re-evaluate."

Speaking of naive, no matter if a coach insinuates the whole diploma or not (which you have no proof of, btw...all coaches insinuate that huh? Good one)... I think it is 10 times as naive for a future student/athlete and his/her parents/legal guardians to think that their golden boy or girl is going to get a free ride all four years.

[saluki762]

I have no problem with coaches not renewing scholarships as they are a 1 year contract. That said, it needs to work both ways. If Cody Ellis comes out next year and averages 20 and 10, he should be free to transfer to Duke or Kentucky with no penalty. If coaches can recruit over kids and get them out the door, the kid should be able to do the same.

[slu72]

I have no problem with coaches not renewing scholarships as they are a 1 year contract. That said, it needs to work both ways. If Cody Ellis comes out next year and averages 20 and 10, he should be free to transfer to Duke or Kentucky with no penalty. If coaches can recruit over kids and get them out the door, the kid should be able to do the same.

If Cody Ellis does the above, he'll be drafted in the NBA's first round.

[BIG BILL FAN]

I never did understand if they redshirt, get a medical year, etc but are "on the team" for five years do they have tuitioin, room and board for all five years and does that count against the scholarship limitation for all five years?

yes on both accounts....

[ACE]

I have no problem with coaches not renewing scholarships as they are a 1 year contract. That said, it needs to work both ways. If Cody Ellis comes out next year and averages 20 and 10, he should be free to transfer to Duke or Kentucky with no penalty. If coaches can recruit over kids and get them out the door, the kid should be able to do the same.

That sets a dangerous policy that would really hurt the best non BCS programs. So a player like Randal Falker, who SIU spent a lot of time developing, he even spent a redshirt season I believe, heads into his senior year... he has raised his stock during his career and developed into a good player... so you are saying he could just transfer to a program like Illinois and not have to sit out a year? That's a terrible idea.

A kid like Curry from Liberty had a huge freshman season. He wanted to transfer to Duke REALLY bad, so he was willing to make the sacrifice and sit out a year. I think that is reasonable. If you take that 1-year sit-out policy away, you would have players hopping from school to school on a whim. The big winners would be the BCS programs who are on tv all the time.

[Clock_Tower]

I have no problem with coaches not renewing scholarships as they are a 1 year contract. That said, it needs to work both ways. If Cody Ellis comes out next year and averages 20 and 10, he should be free to transfer to Duke or Kentucky with no penalty. If coaches can recruit over kids and get them out the door, the kid should be able to do the same.

Be careful what you ask for.... Free agency and annual re-recuiting among existing schools is not the same at all. A fraction of the kids who sit at the end of the bench get pushed out, get a gentle push or see the writing on the wall and leave. Again, would someone like to tell me who and how we will conduct trials/hearings as to whether or not the school pushed him out or if the kid were also responsible. The NCAA Clearinghouse will now arbitrate hearings between schools (armed with their legal counsel to prevent the loss of scholarships) against the disgruntled kids who left the program. Should the kid win, what's he get? Reinstatement?? Money??? Total free agency is worth this?

BTW, kids leave all the time. You guys just had 2 more leave this week. When kids do leave, they either go to D2 or JUCO and play right away or they redshirt/sit out a year, they continue to practice, lift weights, watch film and hang out with their new teammates, they get a free ride at their next school (tuition, books, room & board), they get to hang out on a college campus full of co-eds with no job or real responsibility. I would sure like to be punished in this manner!!