Jon Smith

[NashvilleBilliken]

So, what's the deal with Jon Smith? It's tough to get a read on a player sometimes over a web stream. The guy has more rebounds than Remekun, while playing half the time. He seems to have a block everytime he's in the game and usually at least one of those aforementioned rebounds is highlight worthy (i.e. he jumps through the roof). Any thoughts on why he sees such limited minutes?

[billiken_roy]

So, what's the deal with Jon Smith? It's tough to get a read on a player sometimes over a web stream. The guy has more rebounds than Remekun, while playing half the time. He seems to have a block everytime he's in the game and usually at least one of those aforementioned rebounds is highlight worthy (i.e. he jumps through the roof). Any thoughts on why he sees such limited minutes?

his without a doubt a pure athlete. i would guess he would win the billikens triathlon. however watch him on the court on both ends. he appears to be lost. a lot of his blocks come on recovery after he lost his man. one of his blocks saturday came when he lost his man, and he was still under the basket. his man got the wide open shot and then he blocked another rockhurst guy's putback attempt. you wonder if he lost his man, why didnt he go find someone to block out for the rebound. on offense he is always being coached on floor postion by the other billikens.

like i said, he is obviously a good athlete. and man who wouldnt like those long arms, but he cant help much if he doesnt know how to play basketball. especially rickma ball which is more celebral than most brands.

[NashvilleBilliken]

his without a doubt a pure athlete. i would guess he would win the billikens triathlon. however watch him on the court on both ends. he appears to be lost. a lot of his blocks come on recovery after he lost his man. one of his blocks saturday came when he lost his man, and he was still under the basket. his man got the wide open shot and then he blocked another rockhurst guy's putback attempt. you wonder if he lost his man, why didnt he go find someone to block out for the rebound. on offense he is always being coached on floor postion by the other billikens.

like i said, he is obviously a good athlete. and man who wouldnt like those long arms, but he cant help much if he doesnt know how to play basketball. especially rickma ball which is more celebral than most brands.

That makes Majerus comments in the post a little clearer. I guess it's easy to forget all these guys are freshmen and they typically have at least a year or two before being asked to contribute. Hopefully we don't give up on him yet and Jon has the willingness to learn. I love what Smith brings to the table.

[GOSLU68]

his without a doubt a pure athlete. i would guess he would win the billikens triathlon. however watch him on the court on both ends. he appears to be lost. a lot of his blocks come on recovery after he lost his man. one of his blocks saturday came when he lost his man, and he was still under the basket. his man got the wide open shot and then he blocked another rockhurst guy's putback attempt. you wonder if he lost his man, why didnt he go find someone to block out for the rebound. on offense he is always being coached on floor postion by the other billikens.

like i said, he is obviously a good athlete. and man who wouldnt like those long arms, but he cant help much if he doesnt know how to play basketball. especially rickma ball which is more celebral than most brands.

ditto: deer in the headlights but recovers well, Femi John, CR, and JS all fill the hoop inside 10 feet-even though KC seems to be temporarily losing minutes to Femi he has better instinct about where to be or where to lead his man out and I still think we lose nothing when KC is in the game in spite of the fact that

he looks both ways before crossing and will never risk getting a blocked shot. I don't want us to lose any

of these guys but RM hints his staff is going to keep recruiting. I hope we get some 6-10 or up stud who can control some space-Willie got pushed more against Rockhurst than he did against GA, IState, and ND

[jjray]

My question with Smith is that I find it hard to believe that he'll ever develop the skill set to play 3 so he's an undersized 4. If that's the case, I just don't think we should expect much out of Jon. He's still young and has time to prove me wrong though.

[ACE]

I think ideally Smith should redshirt next year, IF Cody or some other good big is here. It is apparent he is a tremendous athlete. Although they only list him as 6-5, he plays much bigger with his arms and leaping ability. The couple minutes he played against Carbondale, showed glimpses of what he is capable. of. I think he has a bright future, it might just take a while.

[Guest BillikenReport]

So, what's the deal with Jon Smith? It's tough to get a read on a player sometimes over a web stream. The guy has more rebounds than Remekun, while playing half the time. He seems to have a block everytime he's in the game and usually at least one of those aforementioned rebounds is highlight worthy (i.e. he jumps through the roof). Any thoughts on why he sees such limited minutes?

Smith is very skinny, so while he's a better athlete and leaper than Cory Remekun, the bigger Cory has done a good job of holding his position on defense in the low post. Smith isn't able to do that right now. Offensively, Smith doesn't have much of a game in the post -- kind of like Willie last year -- but his lack of size makes it harder on him inside.

Majerus has done a good job recruiting in his time at SLU, but so far his trying to bring in both Brian Conklin and Jon Smith and turn them into small forwards just hasn't worked out very well. Conklin can be effective as an undersized power forward, but Smith going from playing the post in high school -- where he was probably bigger than most of the kids he faced -- to trying to do the same thing against bigger and stronger defenders in college because of necessity (losing Thompson and then not getting Ellis cleared yet) hasn't worked out so far.

Smith will only get better once he gets stronger. His quick-leaping ability, just like Willie, allows him to rebound and block shots but he's struggled to do much more than that early in his career. One of the reasons you see Femi John playing power forward in certain lineups is that he's strong enough to hold his position in the post, even though he's only 6-2 or 6-3.

The other factor working against Smith and Jeff Reid when he's healthy is how many guys can realistically play much during any one game. If Paul Eckerle were healthy, you probably would have seen Reid redshirt -- and still may based on his two health problems (bunion and concussion) -- because there wouldn't have been many minutes available. Same thing with Smith, who may have redshirted if Thompson had stuck around.

[bauman]

My question with Smith is that I find it hard to believe that he'll ever develop the skill set to play 3 so he's an undersized 4. If that's the case, I just don't think we should expect much out of Jon. He's still young and has time to prove me wrong though.

To me he is the biggest disappointment of the freshman class. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I read all the stuff about Ohio St. wishing they had recruited him and how well he did his senior yr of HS, and I thought he would be a contender for a starting job (or at least a lot of minutes). Now I see him as the last alternative off the bench, behind even a player who RM wanted to redshirt (CR).

Agree that as the last bench player, he is much better than the last "bench player" we have had in many of yrs. However, his basketball skills (as opposed to his athletic skills), are very weak. He does the things you want an athlete to do, but none of the things you want a BB player to do. He jumps well for rebounds, but doesn't have a clue how to block out. His long arms allow him to block shots, but often he is out of position or has lost his man when he makes those blocks. His long arms allow him to tip balls in and score a basket or two from the paint, but I have yet to see him drive by his defender or score from 6' out. The D-2 Rockhurst big men totally dominated Jon. Hopefully, if he stays, he will develop, but I don't see him offering any help this year. When JS & CR were in the Rockhurst game we had nothing going inside-we really need WR and BC in the game. As Bernie M. would say, (FREE CODY ELLIS).

In an effort to stay out of Billikan's doghouse, I will say this about the remaining FR. CS-better than I expected (but somewhat inconsistent)-hopefully experience produces consistency. CR--Athletic and stronger physically than I expected-forced to contribute more than RM thought due to absence of CE and status of JS (see above). JJ---much more than I had hoped for. I saw him as just a late add-on recruit, but his shooting has really helped---needs to do a lot of work on his ball control skills to help KM at the point since it is tough for someone his size to play the 2. Overall the FR are a welcome addition and much better than most previous classes. JR-Incomplete---needs 20 lbs. Hopefully he can redshirt this yr, due to medical issues.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Maybe my expectations were too high, but I read all the stuff about Ohio St. wishing they had recruited him ...

There are a lot of things that get floated around on this board that have no truth behind them.

Smith's final decision came down to SLU and Ohio.

He had interest from some other schools, including Xavier, but it came down to SLU or Ohio.

Smith was a kid recruited by former SLU assistant Paul Biancardi.

After Biancardi moved on to ESPN and Smith committed to SLU, this is what the former coach told me about Smith:

“There’s four things I like about him,” Biancardi said, “One, he’s a extremely hard worker, which if you have talent and athletic ability and you work hard, you’re upside is that much greater. Two, his athleticism. Three, his versatility. Four, his skill level for his size is good right now, but playing for Coach (Rick) Majerus, that will improve ten-fold.”

“It’s a terrific get” for SLU,” Biancardi said. “He enhances the program tremendously because of his size and athletic ability and versatility. He’s a Majerus-type worker. Jon Smith loves the game.”

[slufanskip]

I don't think we should even worry about what Jon shows yet. He's 60 days into trying to make an adjustment from playing with his back to the basket to playing facing the basket. It's a huge change. He has shown us he has the athleticism to be a very good 3 if he can make the adjustment, if he doesn't he may decide leaving is best for him. However, imo it is way to early to even begin to think about it. I see the upside. I see him as having the athleticism to defend the long lean slasher type players who have traditionally hurt us, ie ... GW. Offensively, I'd love to see him cutting back door against smaller players for alley oops and with the ability to put the ball on the floor and become a slasher type of 3. Lets just give the kid some time.

[moytoy12]

Shouldn't we give our freshmen a little more time before we start hyper-analyzing them? The kid has participated in a grand total of 9 college games (+ 2 exhibitions). Patience has never been a strong virtue of mine, but even I think we should be a touch more patient with all of our freshmen.

[Majerus Magic]

I don't think we should even worry about what Jon shows yet. He's 60 days into trying to make an adjustment from playing with his back to the basket to playing facing the basket. It's a huge change. He has shown us he has the athleticism to be a very good 3 if he can make the adjustment, if he doesn't he may decide leaving is best for him. However, imo it is way to early to even begin to think about it. I see the upside. I see him as having the athleticism to defend the long lean slasher type players who have traditionally hurt us, ie ... GW. Offensively, I'd love to see him cutting back door against smaller players for alley oops and with the ability to put the ball on the floor and become a slasher type of 3. Lets just give the kid some time.

Agree spot on with Skip. We haven't faced that tweener type of player that has killed us in the past. We have either faced teams with traditional 4 and 5's or teams like Rockhurst. When I think of Jon Smith I think of him being able to guard the Derrick Brown's of the A-10. Not saying that he has the ability to do that now ( he would get killed in my opinion) but I think is body type is perfect for that.

[billiken_roy]

I don't think we should even worry about what Jon shows yet. He's 60 days into trying to make an adjustment from playing with his back to the basket to playing facing the basket. It's a huge change. He has shown us he has the athleticism to be a very good 3 if he can make the adjustment, if he doesn't he may decide leaving is best for him. However, imo it is way to early to even begin to think about it. I see the upside. I see him as having the athleticism to defend the long lean slasher type players who have traditionally hurt us, ie ... GW. Offensively, I'd love to see him cutting back door against smaller players for alley oops and with the ability to put the ball on the floor and become a slasher type of 3. Lets just give the kid some time.

skip he hasnt played a second at the small forward thus far in any game he has gotten to play. he is strictly being used as a power forward and the only chance he has to play is if conklin gets into early foul trouble.

[slufanskip]

skip he hasnt played a second at the small forward thus far in any game he has gotten to play. he is strictly being used as a power forward and the only chance he has to play is if conklin gets into early foul trouble.

yes, so far. He doesn't have the skills yet to play out, facing the basket. We're short manned, so we are using him as needed. I can't believe though we recruited him to play PF. Who cares where he's played so far. We were expecting to have Cody Ellis here.

[billiken_roy]

oh sorry i misunderstood. got it.

[slufanskip]

I didn't mean to come across like an ass. It's just that I can't possibly believe that we recruited him to play as a PF when we have Conklin on the roster and were recruiting players like Cody Ellis. I don't have any inside track to RM's mind, it just seems that since we are so short handed inside with out Cody, we've been forced to use him there this year. I think his upside appears huge. We know RM said he wanted to recruit kids that love to play and want to learn. RM had to be looking at the kid and thinking wow, if he can develop the skill set to play away .... he's going to be very, very good. Trying to pass judgement, 60 days in, especially when he probably has to practice at the 4 a lot, just isn't fair to the kid. It may be his Jr year if he lasts, but if he can get it done .... that could be a really nice 2 years.

[billiken_roy]

I didn't mean to come across like an ass. It's just that I can't possibly believe that we recruited him to play as a PF when we have Conklin on the roster and were recruiting players like Cody Ellis. I don't have any inside track to RM's mind, it just seems that since we are so short handed inside with out Cody, we've been forced to use him there this year. I think his upside appears huge. We know RM said he wanted to recruit kids that love to play and want to learn. RM had to be looking at the kid and thinking wow, if he can develop the skill set to play away .... he's going to be very, very good. Trying to pass judgement, 60 days in, especially when he probably has to practice at the 4 a lot, just isn't fair to the kid. It may be his Jr year if he lasts, but if he can get it done .... that could be a really nice 2 years.

i'm not as excited after watching him in the limited time he has gotten in the game. i mean i recognize his jumping ability and his long frame, but his basketball is a long way from being anything to get excited about. he doesnt defend, he doesnt shoot, he doesnt handle the ball well. i agree with that athleticism there is a chance a lot can be taught to go with it, but there seems to be a big learning curve that needs to be accomplished first. he appears to really be a diamond in the ROUGH with a lot of needed polish.

[cheeseman]

Lets not get to upset about JS - give him time. I doubt he will red shirt as sophomore - if you have to do that and it is not due to an injury then you fall into the DM category and you all know where that led. He will either continue to grow and show the potential he has or he will decide to go elsewhere.

[bauman]

Agree spot on with Skip. We haven't faced that tweener type of player that has killed us in the past. We have either faced teams with traditional 4 and 5's or teams like Rockhurst. When I think of Jon Smith I think of him being able to guard the Derrick Brown's of the A-10. Not saying that he has the ability to do that now ( he would get killed in my opinion) but I think is body type is perfect for that.

MM, it takes a lot more than a perfect body type to play this game. I have a perfect body type to play Offensive Tackle in the NFL, but I'll never be able to do it.

I'm with most of you in that I hope he develops into the player I thought we were getting. One thing about JS and a few other recruits does cause me concern, however. If he is 6'5" he had to know that he wasn't going to arrive on campus and play the 5. He had to know that he would be on the perimeter. As such, I can't believe he didn't work on his outside skills---shooting and penetrating off the dribble. How do you report in to a good team in one of the top 5-7 conferences in the country, with your skill set limited to playing with your back to the basket. I have a family member who received a full scholarship to a mid-high level Div 1 program (not basketball) and he spent hours everyday working on what he needed to do, to improve the skills he would need to play in college. Surely our coaching staff gives these recruits some guidance on what they need to do to be more ready to compete at the SLU level.

[slu72]

Surely our coaching staff gives these recruits some guidance on what they need to do to be more ready to compete at the SLU level.

I'm sure RM did give JS a lot to work on over the summer. Remember why Conklin said he chose SLU. RM gave him 6 pages of notes on how to improve his game. He said no other coach did this. So am sure RM did something similar for all his recruits.

[slu72 fan]

My take is a little different. I think JS shows tremendous upside. He plays much bigger than his height and he's definitely a low post type of player. I've heard he's not a great practice player, and that means he doesn't get much game time. When he does play, he's nervous as can be,. thinking way too much and ends up a step behind. I think he's going to be fine.

He's probably learning what it takes to play for RM and he'll figure it out, or he'll be gone. I say patience is a virtue with JS. In the end if CE were here, JS would probably be the one redshirting.

[Clock_Tower]

MM, it takes a lot more than a perfect body type to play this game. I have a perfect body type to play Offensive Tackle in the NFL, but I'll never be able to do it.

I'm with most of you in that I hope he develops into the player I thought we were getting. One thing about JS and a few other recruits does cause me concern, however. If he is 6'5" he had to know that he wasn't going to arrive on campus and play the 5. He had to know that he would be on the perimeter. As such, I can't believe he didn't work on his outside skills---shooting and penetrating off the dribble. How do you report in to a good team in one of the top 5-7 conferences in the country, with your skill set limited to playing with your back to the basket. I have a family member who received a full scholarship to a mid-high level Div 1 program (not basketball) and he spent hours everyday working on what he needed to do, to improve the skills he would need to play in college. Surely our coaching staff gives these recruits some guidance on what they need to do to be more ready to compete at the SLU level.

Yes, but he isn't 6'5". That is simply RM's measuring tape. He's 6'7" and there are not very many guys that big that can truly play the 3. Those that can are truly special. RM rounds down. When we play other teams, they often round their players up.

[ACE]

I also don't understand some of the panic about JS. I went back and looked at a guy with a similar build who played the 4 - Chris Sloan. I know Sloan was listed at 6-7, but I am certain if Smith played then, he would be listed at 6-7 or Sloan would be listed at 6-5 if he played now. Both sknny. While Sloan was a pretty good athlete, Smith is better athletically.

During Sloan's 1st year, he actually started 16 games because that team did not have a lot of talent. He averaged about 10 minutes per game with 1.3 ppg and 1.4rpg. Not sure anybody was ready to give up on Sloan when he was a freshman. Sloan slowly got a little better each year. Smith is averaging 5.6 mpg with .9 ppg and 1.9 rpg, he also has 7 blocks.

Luke Meyer, another undersized power forward averaged just 3 ppg and 2 rpg as a freshman while getting pretty good minutes on a bad team. He didn't do much better the following year. Like Sloan, he performed better his junior and senior seasons.

The point is there is plenty of time for Smith to develop and I see more upside in him than I did in Sloan and Meyer when they were freshmen.

[Billikan]

I also don't understand some of the panic about JS. I went back and looked at a guy with a similar build who played the 4 - Chris Sloan. I know Sloan was listed at 6-7, but I am certain if Smith played then, he would be listed at 6-7 or Sloan would be listed at 6-5 if he played now. Both sknny. While Sloan was a pretty good athlete, Smith is better athletically.

During Sloan's 1st year, he actually started 16 games because that team did not have a lot of talent. He averaged about 10 minutes per game with 1.3 ppg and 1.4rpg. Not sure anybody was ready to give up on Sloan when he was a freshman. Sloan slowly got a little better each year. Smith is averaging 5.6 mpg with .9 ppg and 1.9 rpg, he also has 7 blocks.

Luke Meyer, another undersized power forward averaged just 3 ppg and 2 rpg as a freshman while getting pretty good minutes on a bad team. He didn't do much better the following year. Like Sloan, he performed better his junior and senior seasons.

The point is there is plenty of time for Smith to develop and I see more upside in him than I did in Sloan and Meyer when they were freshmen.

I agree with your comparisons and think we all need a dose of reality. I also had high hopes for JS and I have not at all given up on him. He is fast, athletic and a great shot blocker from the weak side--he reminds me of some of the better shot blockers we have seen in the A10 and when they were seniors they were much stronger than JS. The problem is that he is very, very green in terms of his sophisticated understanding of complex defenses and the offenses and he is, like most freshmen, terrified of making a mistake so he appears to be less agressive and more uncertain that he would be if he had more experience and confidence. Cory is a much more talented inside defender in terms of the fundamentals so he does and should play ahead of JS in most circumstances. But if we are all patient I believe that he may develop into a good player. He will really need to work on building up his strength and his understanding of the game. I think he will eventually be able to defend some tall and athletic 3 men but I doubt he will ever be much of an outside shooter. If we had Mr. Ellis, in time JS would be a nice complement as a 3 man because he could help rebound and defend while Ellis could take his man outside leaving Willie and JS to go to the boards. As someone said earlier, he is still much better than the usual 4th big off the bench in past years and please all remember that it is always a slower process to develop bigger players. I loved Chris Sloan in high school and I was pretty much ready to give up on him during his freshman year because he constantly got his shot blocked and he continued to take the ball inside with no success. Yet, by the time he was a senior he was one of my favorite players. Heres hoping that we can see a similar improvement from JS who has more athletic ability to start with!