kevinfootes Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 a debate wouldnt be about trying to get me to attack rickma in this thread which is obviously your only intent. because that is the answer to your "question". of course there are no "players only" events. but the difference was in years past i didnt dislike the coach like i do now. so i choose to not attend as many of these sort of events anymore because frankly i dont want to be there to listen to him. i am sure you are all happy about yourself now. just keep in mind you forced that answer which is about as low as me calling you clueless. i know you arent clueless, but you trying to force me to turn this into a rickma thing again which you know is the answer to your question is. roy, what's you beef with Bill Self? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall his teams ever being in any trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerang Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 roy, what's you beef with Bill Self? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall his teams ever being in any trouble. Not sure that anything Self did per se is the reason for this, but kansas's basketball program has been on probation with a loss of scholarships for the past two years. http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/ne...t&type=lgns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 roy, what's you beef with Bill Self? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall his teams ever being in any trouble. U of I self reported over 20 violations while Self was HC. Kansas currently is on a 3 year probation stemming from violations in its basketball and football teams. Self admitted to illegally contacting recruit John Wall in January. I haven't seen the school or Self be punished for it as yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 a debate wouldnt be about trying to get me to attack rickma in this thread which is obviously your only intent. because that is the answer to your "question". of course there are no "players only" events. but the difference was in years past i didnt dislike the coach like i do now. so i choose to not attend as many of these sort of events anymore because frankly i dont want to be there to listen to him. i am sure you are all happy about yourself now. just keep in mind you forced that answer which is about as low as me calling you clueless. i know you arent clueless, but you trying to force me to turn this into a rickma thing again which you know is the answer to your question is. -roy, you misread my intent, we all know your stance on our head coach, there is no need to go into that any more -i did not attack you nor did i call you names nor did i ask for true confessions -i did ask the question as you stated in this thread you lived slu basketball at one point and intend to get back to that level now but i doubt that is possible unless there is a new head coach or major shift in your thoughts towards our head coach.....i am betting the new head coach comes first -you can have your opinion on rick or anything and you can state it, this is america, but i and others can have our thoughts and state them as well and we should be able to debate or disagree without name calling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 cowboy you jumped into a back and forth with a kansas fan who has attacked our players like lisch and liddell in months past. that fan accused me of not being a billiken fan. i stated i am and always have been a big billiken fan that supported the players to the nth degree. you then state: "right, staying home to watch tv instead of attending a team event where the players speak and interact with the fans is great support of the young men that play the game" surely you can see my view of the intent of that post. it sure wasnt about putting the kansas fan that likes to attack our players in his place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 cowboy you jumped into a back and forth with a kansas fan who has attacked our players like lisch and liddell in months past. that fan accused me of not being a billiken fan. i stated i am and always have been a big billiken fan that supported the players to the nth degree. you then state: "right, staying home to watch tv instead of attending a team event where the players speak and interact with the fans is great support of the young men that play the game" surely you can see my view of the intent of that post. it sure wasnt about putting the kansas fan that likes to attack our players in his place. I'll ask again. What's your problem with Bill Self? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I'll ask again. What's your problem with Bill Self? what did i say other than "i am sure donovan or self will tell him what he wants."? for some reason our kansas fan took offense to that. my point was only that donovan and self are supreme salesmen that convince 16 year old kids that their final destinations should be kansas or florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 what did i say other than "i am sure donovan or self will tell him what he wants."? for some reason our kansas fan took offense to that. my point was only that donovan and self are supreme salesmen that convince 16 year old kids that their final destinations should be kansas or florida. Are you accusing Self of some kind of dishonesty? Aren't all coaches supposed to recruit players? How many coaches go out there and say "this is going to be bad, you'll be unhappy, you'll never play, etc."? I'm sure every coach that's reaching out to Beal is "selling" his program. Are succesful programs somehow different? I'm not sure what point you were trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Are you accusing Self of some kind of dishonesty? Aren't all coaches supposed to recruit players? How many coaches go out there and say "this is going to be bad, you'll be unhappy, you'll never play, etc."? I'm sure every coach that's reaching out to Beal is "selling" his program. Are succesful programs somehow different? I'm not sure what point you were trying to make. no, (however as torch details, he isnt lilly white). i am saying he is more of the slick talking saleman ilk. i dont particularly care for harold higgins' of the college basketball world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 no, (however as torch details, he isnt lilly white). i am saying he is more of the slick talking saleman ilk. i dont particularly care for harold higgins' of the college basketball world. Isn't that a recruiters job Roy? To paint the best picture he can of his school? I think in todays world of college basketball and a rule book thats probably 18" thick, a few minor recruiting violations is the norm. I would bet if you named the top 20 programs over the last 15-20 years, over half have minor recruiting violations. I'm not for or against Self and am not fond of the practice of hiring the relative of every recruit, but if it's legal and I was in charge and it would help push me over the top .... I'd probably do it also. I also wonder why Hawk comes on here though with his backhanded compliments. He's probably used to Kansas people though and isn't familiar with people bright enough to catch on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Isn't that a recruiters job Roy? To paint the best picture he can of his school? I think in todays world of college basketball and a rule book thats probably 18" thick, a few minor recruiting violations is the norm. I would bet if you named the top 20 programs over the last 15-20 years, over half have minor recruiting violations. I'm not for or against Self and am not fond of the practice of hiring the relative of every recruit, but if it's legal and I was in charge and it would help push me over the top .... I'd probably do it also. I also wonder why Hawk comes on here though with his backhanded compliments. He's probably used to Kansas people though and isn't familiar with people bright enough to catch on. you are absolutely right skip. that is why ncaa sports needs an overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 you are absolutely right skip. that is why ncaa sports needs an overhaul.I agree, but I think it's naive to think that NCAA sports will ever be squeaky clean. There's just too much mony at stake. The reality of it is that the NCAA just wants to appear that it cares. It doesn't wnt to penalize coach K, or Bill Self, or Roy. There is really just too much money to be made and fans don't really care as long as their team is winning. What really needs to happen though is that the coaches need to be punished more and harder. The penalties need to apply equally to the school and the coach, following the coach to his next school. If a school hires a coach who's currently on probation they should be required to absorb all his penalties. There also needs to be some leeway for real world situations such as a couple of RM's violations. Ask Todd Bozeman if he'll cheat again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 i have long believed the reason college basketball is so popular is because of the naive shadow that it is somehow about amateurs and purity. if it was about good basketball players the fans would watch more nba. thus, any steps to magnify the student athlete/purity angle will only make the game more popular. the real reason it will never be cleaned up is that the big programs hold all the power. they have a majority on the rules committee and thus nothing changes unless the bcs schools say it is going to change. and if the big schools hold the power and make the rules they will continue to get the best recruiting coaches and make all the money and remain on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 i have long believed the reason college basketball is so popular is because of the naive shadow that it is somehow about amateurs and purity. if it was about good basketball players the fans would watch more nba. thus, any steps to magnify the student athlete/purity angle will only make the game more popular. the real reason it will never be cleaned up is that the big programs hold all the power. they have a majority on the rules committee and thus nothing changes unless the bcs schools say it is going to change. and if the big schools hold the power and make the rules they will continue to get the best recruiting coaches and make all the money and remain on top. Imo the reason for the popularity is that along with the fact that Kansas is a Kansas school so people in Kansas will root for them the same as people in Stl will root for the Cardinals though we have no attachment to them except that they are our team .... is that schools create their fan base by having Alum. Every year a school like Texas adds 10K more potential fans who now have a real attachment to the team. I don't think most people believe that college athletics are pure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Imo the reason for the popularity is that along with the fact that Kansas is a Kansas school so people in Kansas will root for them the same as people in Stl will root for the Cardinals though we have no attachment to them except that they are our team .... is that schools create their fan base by having Alum. Every year a school like Texas adds 10K more potential fans who now have a real attachment to the team. I don't think most people believe that college athletics are pure. True. Add to add, 1) people love unknown kids who either step-up and become stars or who chokes. Much more unpredictable with an unknown 18 year old kid or even a 22 year old "veteran" than the NBA guy who's been doing it for years; 2) no one questions the effort and desire of college players (dive for balls on the floor, greater emotion, greater support by the guys on the bench) as compared to NBA players (who make too much money, lack real incentive, play too many games and only start caring when the playoffs roll around); 3) Any top college team can really win on any given night, and if they win, it's final -- 84 plus game schedules, no best of 7 series which better insures the best truly wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 1) people love unknown kids who either step-up and become stars or who chokes. Much more unpredictable with an unknown 18 year old kid or even a 22 year old "veteran" than the NBA guy who's been doing it for years; 2) no one questions the effort and desire of college players (dive for balls on the floor, greater emotion, greater support by the guys on the bench) as compared to NBA players (who make too much money, lack real incentive, play too many games and only start caring when the playoffs roll around); 3) Any top college team can really win on any given night, and if they win, it's final -- 84 plus game schedules, no best of 7 series which better insures the best truly wins. all additional reasons that make sense for spreading the wealth amongst more conferences and setting rules and guidelines that accomplishes such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 no, (however as torch details, he isnt lilly white). i am saying he is more of the slick talking saleman ilk. i dont particularly care for harold higgins' of the college basketball world. I'm not even sure where you get the "slick talking" type. I guess it's just a matter of taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 all additional reasons that make sense for spreading the wealth amongst more conferences and setting rules and guidelines that accomplishes such. roy, you should move to Washington DC. That's the kind of thinking that fits in well with our new administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 roy, you should move to Washington DC. That's the kind of thinking that fits in well with our new administration. It is sort of strange to hear Roy advocating regulation from a governing body to force the spreading of the wealth. Roy what has gotten into you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 It is sort of strange to hear Roy advocating regulation from a governing body to force the spreading of the wealth. Roy what has gotten into you? roy has become a socialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 roy has become a socialist. sports and running a nation are two very different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I don't know roy ---- didn't the 49ers try to hire Condi Rice?I hear some MLB teams are showing some interest in that tall gangling lefthander who threw the first pitch in St. Louis last week as well. Steve Largent. JC Watts. Jack Kemp. Bill Bradley. Jim Bunning. GeeDub ran the Rangers from Texas before he ran the US Rangers. All of us are salesmen --- you think applying for a job doesn't involve selling yourself? I don't mind the "slick talkers" as long as they produce, and Donovan, Self, Pitino and, yes, even Rick have done that I'm sure. I don't like Larry Brown hiring truck driving Ed Manning as his bench coach. I don't like Eddie Sutton and staff sending money via FedEx as opposed to Western Union. I don't like some Durham company hiring Trajan Langdon's mommy to come down from Alaska and work for four years. And I don't like Huggins hiring Lutz' assistant coach away just so Michale Beasley chooses Kansas State over Charlotte for a year. Also don't care for Calipari hiring Wagner's old man or getting a scholar to take an SAT test for Rose and Dozier. Those are the guys and programs the NCAA should really go after. Wait --- aren't they all BCS schools? The little guy will always live on. His name will change over time ---- Western Kentucky, Gonzaga, Butler, George Mason, Davidson, Xavier, St. Joe's. But that makes college athletics the boon that they are. The little guy doesn't win, but he makes it interesting so the casual fan comes dialing in. Ratings go up and the big boys live on as the rich continue to get richer. Who in our life time has gotten the so-called 'death penalty?" I can think of Southern Methodist in football and San Francisco in basketball (although USF may have self-imposed). And since then have they been relevant? Nope. Unfortunately, it happens all the time. We have a guy who has sued us almost 30 times. Never won a case. Now, he has a job paid for with US taxpayer dollars. But he's not on the federal payroll because the money goes from the fed to the Commonwealth to a state agency and then to a local county and they pay him. He's three times removed and therefore its legal and not a conflict of interest. I fully expect at least another two or three lawsuits from him over the next few years. Something wrong with that as well. Actually I think Donovan has it easier. The sand in Florida is an easier sell than the sand in Kansas. Plus, I've seen a lot more "Girls of the SEC" that I have "Girls of the Cornfield" so there you go. That ALONE would sell me. Two national titles is gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 sports and running a nation are two very different things. The principles are the same, ultimately. You either favor redistribution of wealth or you don't. We'll call you a sports socialist! Maybe the little guys in sports should just work a little harder...pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 sports vs. politics = BORED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 sports vs. politics = BORED. You're right, sports and politics are never discussed together. You never hear questions like... Should the Cardinals have gotten tax money to help finance the stadium? Should SLU have gotten a tax break on Chaifetz? Should the city/county/state build a new stadium for the Rams? Should the city tax bonus money of players in the All Star game? roy brought up an interesting point about the structure of the NCAA. You can choose to ignore the 4 or 5 posts related to this if you like. I'm guessing you're a fan of Brian McKenna-type radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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