RM wants to be in the Valley?

[GOSLU68]

And I don't care what the MVC lovers say, unless Savvis was a sell-out for all the games, it ain't exactly that great then.

I love Valley talk. I really do.

It would be interesting to know how many SLU fans actually attend the MVC tournament each year? Considering we were technically sold ou for the LaSalle game senior night with less than 1-000 no shows for whatever reason i would say some go to Valley games or tournaments because they are

basketball fans and if SLU was a Valley member their attendance would increase.

Personally, the current Valley teams are not my favorite teams to be opponents for SLU. This has changed because of our past affiliations; however,

if I say I am getting to know the players on the A10 teams and like playing St.. Joe's, UMass, Dayton, X, Temple, etc. I must say I miss playing Cincy,

Memphis, louisville, Houston, Tulane, Valpo, De Paul, Tulane, even the San Francisco Dons from years ago made sense.

I don't care if we ever play Loyola (Chicago), Bowling Green, Ball State, Tpledo, Cleveland State, Detroit, Butler; but I would like to play ND, Bradley, Marquette, and any Big 10 or Big 8 teams that are a plane flight away such Minnesota, Northwestern of course if we could get games like Maryland,

Gonzaga, Georgetown, or other perennial good teams I would like to see us upgrade our ooc schedule.

[AlumniFan]

A-10 is bad for SLU, huge mistake, could be worse, Sunbelt Conference maybe.

MVC is our best bet, cannot wait for magical ND-Marq-DePaul-Xav-Dayton that everyone dreams of...

RM knows it, so do vast majority of knowedgeable Billiken fans.

You are SOOOOOO misinformed. The A10 is about a LOT more than basketball for SLU.

[slufanskip]

You know me skip, I'm slow. Thanks for clarifying. To take sides, I agree with you.

See, now you got it. If you just remember these 4 words "I agree with Skip" you'll be fine

[clegal]

This topic has gotten a lot of mileage among the local media lately. Burwell's show talks about it almost on a daily basis.

I agree with most of Ramsey's blog.

I think Majerus is very wrong on this one. I also think SLU has a large contingency of geriactric boosters who are pushing for the return to the Valley.

Most people I hear talking about this aren't SLU supporters, either in the media, on message boards or in talking to people about it personally. For the most part they are Mi$$ou or Illinois supporters. SLU is a threat to their supremacy. We have the facilities, the coach, and we are primed for success. They don't want us to compete against them directly. They want to put us in our place, the overlooked, the forgotten, the mid major, MVC. SLU has been a sleeping giant for 50 years, now we are just starting to wake up and we wanna join the minor leagues?

A move to the the MVC would be a negative for SLU in almost every way.

Majerus won't be able to recruit nationally as well and local talent will all but dry up. What is a kid going to choose, Mi$$ou, Illinois, or the Valley????? A Brandon Beal would never pick SLU in the Valley over a BCS offer, I don't care if John Wooden is the coach at SLU we never get the best area players anymore, unless Mi$$ou or Illinois don't want them. You think the Oregon POY is coming to SLU in the valley? Or the Wisconsin POY? Sorry Rick they ain't coming.

Say goodbye to any dreams of playing the big boys on our court. Mi$$ou, Illinois, KU never come to Chaiffetz with SLU in the Valley. Does Mizzou ever play Missouri St? Illinois vs. SIUC? Never and we want to be in that same boat?

Well at least we won't have to go to Olean or have Richmond or Fordham come play us. Instead we get rollicking crowds to come see Evansville and student road trips to Grand Rapids and Omaha.

And the world's greatest College Basketball Tournament, The MVC Tournament won't be played in St. Louis anymore, not with the newest member's campus 2 miles from the tourney venue. Oh and which event had more attendance, the Championship of the World's Greatest College Basketball Tournament or SLU vs. LaSalle. It was SLU vs. LaSalle, how the hell did that happen? The MVC had barely more than 9000 people attend its Championship game. If you listen to the local media in town you would think they were turning away rabid basketball fans away at the entrance to Savvis and then the St. Louis Fire Marshall had to evacuate the oversold building as a fire hazard at halftime.

The A-10 has deficiencies but it is our best alternative. If we join the MVC we are forever a AAA minor league club compared to Mi$$ou and Illinois. To strengthen our program we need to be in the best possible conference. Like it or not that is the A-10 not the MVC. I don't like it that we are far away from the other schools but if it made our program better I'd play in a conference based in China.

I urge all of you to e-mail the coaching staff and the AD dept and voice your concerns about moving to the MVC. Someone is telling Rick and Co. that this is a good idea, we need to tell him how bad it is. I sent my e-mails off 30 minutes after he appeared on that show.

I dont understand this view that the Velly and A10 are noticably different or that the MVC would be terrible for the program. Look at some facts:

1. Over the last five years, the MVC has been a consistently better league. Last year was the first year in since 2004 that the A10's RPI was above the MVC's and it was by a very small margin. In each of the previous years, the MVC's RPI was significantly higher. In fact, in each of those years the MVC's RPI was closer to 2 or more BCS conferences than it was to the A10's. This year the A10 will be better by a big margin, last year they were slightly better, the few years before the valley was significantly better.

2. Similar Schools? From the standpoint of Catholic, this is a fair point, but in terms of private similarly sized schools the Valley has Drake, Bradley, and Creighton.

3. "Going to the Valley is a step back" in terms of visibility. I'm not sure how you measure this, but the facts seem to say the MVC would win out. Consider the fact that the Valley is currently receiving more NCAA tournament "shares" (they have played in more NCAA tournament games over the last 7 years) and their conference championship is televised on CBS. The A10 has second rate coverage at best.

4. The MVC makes SLU a mid-major forever. SLU is a mid-major. The A10 is a mid-major conference. The MVC is mid-major conference.

5. Distance clearly favors the MVC

[Scoop]

I dont understand this view that the Velly and A10 are noticably different or that the MVC would be terrible for the program. Look at some facts:

1. Over the last five years, the MVC has been a consistently better league. Last year was the first year in since 2004 that the A10's RPI was above the MVC's and it was by a very small margin. In each of the previous years, the MVC's RPI was significantly higher. In fact, in each of those years the MVC's RPI was closer to 2 or more BCS conferences than it was to the A10's. This year the A10 will be better by a big margin, last year they were slightly better, the few years before the valley was significantly better.

2. Similar Schools? From the standpoint of Catholic, this is a fair point, but in terms of private similarly sized schools the Valley has Drake, Bradley, and Creighton.

3. "Going to the Valley is a step back" in terms of visibility. I'm not sure how you measure this, but the facts seem to say the MVC would win out. Consider the fact that the Valley is currently receiving more NCAA tournament "shares" (they have played in more NCAA tournament games over the last 7 years) and their conference championship is televised on CBS. The A10 has second rate coverage at best.

4. The MVC makes SLU a mid-major forever. SLU is a mid-major. The A10 is a mid-major conference. The MVC is mid-major conference.

5. Distance clearly favors the MVC

When I ask people to go to the game with me, sometimes I have to "sell it" because my friends albeit basketball fans are not die hard SLU fans like me. It is an easy sell saying, "they're playing Umass, X, Dayton, St. Joes, Temple...even Gee Dub, Charolette and Rhody." In the vallry, other than Creighton, who would we give a ###### about playing? SIU and MO state are already on the schedule.

[moytoy12]

Just a general question. Is it better for SLU to get some exposure by playing smaller teams in major east coast cities as a part of the a-10 or does SLu get better exposure by being the king of a smaller conference like the MVC (and, of course, this makes the large leap that we would be the Gonzaga of the MVC, which obviously isn't a sure thing)?

[clegal]

Just a general question. Is it better for SLU to get some exposure by playing smaller teams in major east coast cities as a part of the a-10 or does SLu get better exposure by being the king of a smaller conference like the MVC (and, of course, this makes the large leap that we would be the Gonzaga of the MVC, which obviously isn't a sure thing)?

If SLU could be the king of the MVC, that would be better, but since the MVC has been a stronger conference since SLU joined A10, there isn't much reason to believe we would be "king" there.

Best result: King of A10. Best situation for our program: MVC

[moytoy12]

If SLU could be the king of the MVC, that would be better, but since the MVC has been a stronger conference since SLU joined A10, there isn't much reason to believe we would be "king" there.

Best result: King of A10. Best situation for our program: MVC

I don't know if you're just trying to bait people or not, but i don't believe the MVC has been a stronger conference since SLU joined the A-10.

[billiken_roy]

If SLU could be the king of the MVC, that would be better, but since the MVC has been a stronger conference since SLU joined A10, there isn't much reason to believe we would be "king" there.

Best result: King of A10. Best situation for our program: MVC

clegal, obviously with your 2 post showing, you are a mvc fan trying to blow smoke in a billiken fan hotbed.

there is no way the mvc is "best situation" for slu. or at least you can be a billiken fan and want to accept such a set back for the billikens.

it amazes me that anyone wants this for our billikens.

any hope for ever being a national program will permanently be gone. as taj says in this thread, maybe the a-10 isnt the best place but the mvc sure as hell isnt better. and if we ever want to be more, we can never think about parking in the dreaded mvc.

please basketball gods, make this go away.

thanks rickma for giving the mvc loonies something to grasp.

[inthelou]

clegal, obviously with your 2 post showing, you are a mvc fan trying to blow smoke in a billiken fan hotbed.

there is no way the mvc is "best situation" for slu. or at least you can be a billiken fan and want to accept such a set back for the billikens.

it amazes me that anyone wants this for our billikens.

any hope for ever being a national program will permanently be gone. as taj says in this thread, maybe the a-10 isnt the best place but the mvc sure as hell isnt better. and if we ever want to be more, we can never think about parking in the dreaded mvc.

please basketball gods, make this go away.

thanks rickma for giving the mvc loonies something to grasp.

Roy - you really can't blame some of the fans for looking at this. I totally understand your points. But our head coach brought it up and has brought it up repeatedly. Given his national profile that's going to cause some fans to take pause. And there are some decent points for the MVC although I personally favor slightly right now staying in the A-10 and making the best of it.

[clegal]

If SLU could be the king of the MVC, that would be better, but since the MVC has been a stronger conference since SLU joined A10, there isn't much reason to believe we would be "king" there.

Best result: King of A10. Best situation for our program: MVC

I based "better" on having a better RPI, more tournament shares, and a broadcast television tournament championship.

If the A10 was a high end conference, I wouldn't advocate taking a step down, but traveling all the way out east to be in a comparable conference doesn't do anything for the program. Then again, my goals are different. I have accepted that SLU is not a national program and see the "ceiling" for SLU as what Butler currently is.

[tenthyearsenior]

Wow. RM agrees with me about the valley and not the rest of the board. Rick and I must be crazy. I think we can all agree this is a down year for the valley and an average or better than average year for the A10. Guess what. They are bothe getting 2 teams in the tourney.

[Midwest BB Fan]

I am a huge midwest basketball fan following the B10, A10, MVC, BE and B12 (parts) conferences very closely.

The MVC might not be the best fit for SLU, but not because it is an inferior basketball conference. Most objective analysis would say that the MVC has been a stronger basketball conference 3 of the last 5 years (if you include this year). The A10 is better this year per rankings and RPI. but the A10 did not fare well in head-to-head play against the MVC this year.

Head-to-head games this year with between the A10 and MVC with conference finish position in parenthesis:

(2) Dayton lost at Creighton (1) 59-77

(5) St. Joe's lost at Creighton (1) 58-69

(5) Richmond lost at home to Bradley (4) 66-80

(9) St. Louis lost at So. Ill (5) 48-64

(10)UMass lost at So Ill (5) 73-80

(12) Charlotte beat So Ill (5) at Carbondale 66-64

Other than the Richmond - Bradley tilt, those games were at the MVC home, but most of the games were not close.

For the period of 2004-05 thru 2007-08

MVC has had 10 NCAA bids (6 different schools); A10 has received 9 bids(5 different schools)

MVC has had 4 Sweet 16 teams (3 different schools); A10 has had 1 Sweet 16 team

There is lot more to choosing what conference to be in for the AD and School President than just basketball. The A10 might be the best conference for SLU to be part of. I don't think it would make sense for SLU to join the MVC as a 1 school package. I do think it would make sense, basketball-wise, for Butler and SLU to join the MVC as a two team deal. Bottom line is that the MVC and A10 are mid-majors and will probably remain competitive with each other for the next few years. The team with the marquee names (Xavier in the A10 this year and last year) and Creighton and SIU in the MVC in prior years will adjust outsider's perceptions on which conference is better on a year-to-year-basis

[brianstl]

I am a huge midwest basketball fan following the B10, A10, MVC, BE and B12 (parts) conferences very closely.

The MVC might not be the best fit for SLU, but not because it is an inferior basketball conference. Most objective analysis would say that the MVC has been a stronger basketball conference 3 of the last 5 years (if you include this year). The A10 is better this year per rankings and RPI. but the A10 did not fare well in head-to-head play against the MVC this year.

Head-to-head games this year with between the A10 and MVC with conference finish position in parenthesis:

(2) Dayton lost at Creighton (1) 59-77

(5) St. Joe's lost at Creighton (1) 58-69

(5) Richmond lost at home to Bradley (4) 66-80

(9) St. Louis lost at So. Ill (5) 48-64

(10)UMass lost at So Ill (5) 73-80

(12) Charlotte beat So Ill (5) at Carbondale 66-64

Other than the Richmond - Bradley tilt, those games were at the MVC home, but most of the games were not close.

For the period of 2004-05 thru 2007-08

MVC has had 10 NCAA bids (6 different schools); A10 has received 9 bids(5 different schools)

MVC has had 4 Sweet 16 teams (3 different schools); A10 has had 1 Sweet 16 team

There is lot more to choosing what conference to be in for the AD and School President than just basketball. The A10 might be the best conference for SLU to be part of. I don't think it would make sense for SLU to join the MVC as a 1 school package. I do think it would make sense, basketball-wise, for Butler and SLU to join the MVC as a two team deal. Bottom line is that the MVC and A10 are mid-majors and will probably remain competitive with each other for the next few years. The team with the marquee names (Xavier in the A10 this year and last year) and Creighton and SIU in the MVC in prior years will adjust outsider's perceptions on which conference is better on a year-to-year-basis

Good first post. Welcome to the board.

[MB73]

You are SOOOOOO misinformed. The A10 is about a LOT more than basketball for SLU.

So who is it good for? Baseball? Soccer? Tell me, informed one!

[Midwest BB Fan]

Good first post. Welcome to the board.

Thank you. I love midwest basketball and pull for all midwest teams, regardless of conference affiliation. The MVC and the A10 are both great conferences for basketball. The typical school profile is different, but the basketball quaility is similar. As has been posted on other threads, it would be a dream come true if the midwest private schools could come together to form a new league. The only chance that happens is if the BE implodes due a schism between the football and basketball schools. Then several conferences would realign. SLU, X, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, Bradley Creighton, Butler and Drake would be a great group of schools for tradition, rivalries and media market size.

[billiken_roy]

Roy - you really can't blame some of the fans for looking at this. I totally understand your points. But our head coach brought it up and has brought it up repeatedly. Given his national profile that's going to cause some fans to take pause. And there are some decent points for the MVC although I personally favor slightly right now staying in the A-10 and making the best of it.

our head coach cracked this week. first he says before the xu game that it would be a shame if slu beat them (see jeff gordon column) then he apparently says the mvc comment. this guy is more loose cannon right now than he has been at any time since coming to slu.

[courtside]

I am a huge midwest basketball fan following the B10, A10, MVC, BE and B12 (parts) conferences very closely.

The MVC might not be the best fit for SLU, but not because it is an inferior basketball conference. Most objective analysis would say that the MVC has been a stronger basketball conference 3 of the last 5 years (if you include this year). The A10 is better this year per rankings and RPI. but the A10 did not fare well in head-to-head play against the MVC this year.

Head-to-head games this year with between the A10 and MVC with conference finish position in parenthesis:

(2) Dayton lost at Creighton (1) 59-77

(5) St. Joe's lost at Creighton (1) 58-69

(5) Richmond lost at home to Bradley (4) 66-80

(9) St. Louis lost at So. Ill (5) 48-64

(10)UMass lost at So Ill (5) 73-80

(12) Charlotte beat So Ill (5) at Carbondale 66-64

Other than the Richmond - Bradley tilt, those games were at the MVC home, but most of the games were not close.

For the period of 2004-05 thru 2007-08

MVC has had 10 NCAA bids (6 different schools); A10 has received 9 bids(5 different schools)

MVC has had 4 Sweet 16 teams (3 different schools); A10 has had 1 Sweet 16 team

There is lot more to choosing what conference to be in for the AD and School President than just basketball. The A10 might be the best conference for SLU to be part of. I don't think it would make sense for SLU to join the MVC as a 1 school package. I do think it would make sense, basketball-wise, for Butler and SLU to join the MVC as a two team deal. Bottom line is that the MVC and A10 are mid-majors and will probably remain competitive with each other for the next few years. The team with the marquee names (Xavier in the A10 this year and last year) and Creighton and SIU in the MVC in prior years will adjust outsider's perceptions on which conference is better on a year-to-year-basis

Total body of work. You are going to judge a league based on a few head to head games instead of their total body of work? That isn't objective analysis. Five of those six games were at MVC schools. The A-10 was better than the MVC this season. If we can't agree on that, we might as well not move forward with "objective analysis."

Two years for the MVC, the best in its history, during a brief down period for the A-10, under poor A-10 leadership and commissioner shakeup at the top, poor tv package...etc...and it's still two seasons. Prior to those two years, it's been a landslide, and I'm talking recent few years ago memory.

We haven't even discussed the non-basketball things.

[GOSLU68]

our head coach cracked this week. first he says before the xu game that it would be a shame if slu beat them (see jeff gordon column) then he apparently says the mvc comment. this guy is more loose cannon right now than he has been at any time since coming to slu.

when men get to a certain age and level of accomplishment some of them say what comes to mind without fear of retribution-fortunately most 18 year old kids have radar for liars so as far as recruiting goes it won't hurt him even if it makes the rest of us squeamish

[moytoy12]

By mostly all accounts, the A-10 is a place to hangout until the next conference shake-up. Would the MVC be most desirable if we knew it was a layover until the "dream" midwestern private and/or catholic school league formed?

Honestly, I was pretty stalwart in my support of SLU not being in the MVC. However, that is waning. I recognize that the MVC would not necessarily be a step forward for all aspects of SLU, but I'm tiring of the A-10. While I think the product on the court is better than the MVC, I think it's a mickey mouse operation. Finally, 14 teams for someone not named the ACC or the Big East is too many and it doesn't appear that the league will be restructured any time soon.

[kshoe]

our head coach cracked this week. first he says before the xu game that it would be a shame if slu beat them (see jeff gordon column) then he apparently says the mvc comment. this guy is more loose cannon right now than he has been at any time since coming to slu.

Roy, your context of the shame if SLU beat them comment is all wrong. He said it would be a shame if we beat them AND they didn't get into the NCAA tourney. Now you and I know X is a lock for the tourney but Rick's comment was really more about the regular season not being as important as it should be. He didn't crack on that one unless you want to rip on him for not knowing that X was a lock regardless of whether SLU beat them or not.

As for getting out of the A-10...I agree with him and have been on record for about 4 years for it. Its interesting to see that some of the others on this board which were so staunch in their love of the A-10 are coming around to that view.

[brianstl]

Roy, your context of the shame if SLU beat them comment is all wrong. He said it would be a shame if we beat them AND they didn't get into the NCAA tourney. Now you and I know X is a lock for the tourney but Rick's comment was really more about the regular season not being as important as it should be. He didn't crack on that one unless you want to rip on him for not knowing that X was a lock regardless of whether SLU beat them or not.

As for getting out of the A-10...I agree with him and have been on record for about 4 years for it. Its interesting to see that some of the others on this board which were so staunch in their love of the A-10 are coming around to that view.

I thought the A-10 would get better. I had hope for the new commissioner. I know it is early, but the officiating in this conference was a joke again this year, TV was a joke this year, the radio broadcast not being available on the internet was a joke, and we have only one game against XU again next season. Not the start I was looking for from her. The A-10 should be the better fit, but it seems that too many members have no intention to make the league what it should be.

[davidnark]

our head coach cracked this week. first he says before the xu game that it would be a shame if slu beat them (see jeff gordon column) then he apparently says the mvc comment. this guy is more loose cannon right now than he has been at any time since coming to slu.

Roy, give it a break. Majerus didn't say anything shocking or "loose." For decades, he has been saying that the conference tournaments were an unfair way to decide tournament teams (I disagree). I have also yet to see any quotes in which he made a direct appeal for the MVC. Instead, he articulated his frustration with many of the well-known issues with the A-10.

I frankly love Majerus's candor and honesty. It is great to finally have a coach calls a spade a spade and doesn't spew a bunch of hyperbole our way.

[GOSLU68]

By mostly all accounts, the A-10 is a place to hangout until the next conference shake-up. Would the MVC be most desirable if we knew it was a layover until the "dream" midwestern private and/or catholic school league formed?

Honestly, I was pretty stalwart in my support of SLU not being in the MVC. However, that is waning. I recognize that the MVC would not necessarily be a step forward for all aspects of SLU, but I'm tiring of the A-10. While I think the product on the court is better than the MVC, I think it's a mickey mouse operation. Finally, 14 teams for someone not named the ACC or the Big East is too many and it doesn't appear that the league will be restructured any time soon.

the A10 has great markets for TV and student recruitment. When Ads featuring SLU run I just as soon have them in Philly or Pisttsburg than Evansville. Someone will fix this. I would rather play teams the quality of Duquesne, Temple, X, Dayton, Rhode Island, Umass,

St. Joe. etc I really don't want to be in a small town league with a bunch of state owned third tier academic institutions that are mostly only about 50 years old. I think I'd rather be in Memphis'' league than Evansville. If I was going to a tournament AC would be more exciting than KC and I would just as soon visit NY, PA, Mass as Northern IA or Omaha or Des Moines.

This may not be heaven but it sure is not hell

[davidnark]

I thought the A-10 would get better. I had hope for the new commissioner. I know it is early, but the officiating in this conference was a joke again this year, TV was a joke this year, the radio broadcast not being available on the internet was a joke, and we have only one game against XU again next season. Not the start I was looking for from her. The A-10 should be the better fit, but it seems that too many members have no intention to make the league what it should be.

Did anyone watch the Temple/Dukes game? with about two minutes left and the Dukes down by 6 or 7, the Temple guard took about three obvious steps and heaved a prayer as the shot clock expired. All three refs were somehow the only ones watching the game who didn't see the blatant walk. It really affected the outcome of the game.