Good BE prospective from Marquette fan

[Bay Area Billiken]

still resides about 100 miles to the West in Boone County, Missouri. By the way, how long does Duck Season last in Boone County?

[CentFLBilliken]

Nonsense,

Billiken Roy is powerful but I doubt he, alone is able to burn bridges between SLU and the departing CUSA schools.

I honestly dont care how I (we) am viewed by those schools. Screw them and I wish them bad luck in everything they do. Do you think X and Dayton are welcoming us in because they have great affection for us. Dont be naive. I think there is alot of common ground there but we help make their conference stronger, bottom line. There is a lot Xavier and Loyola-Chicago have in common as well but oddly they dont want anything to do with them on the court, rightly so.

Cincinnati vs. Marquette, I think I might root for injuries.

[Bay Area Billiken]

SLU's presence in the A-10 does make the league stronger, and that is a principal reason for the support of Xavier and Dayton. In addition, the presence of another strong Midwestern member helps Xavier and Dayton with the league's balance of power.

Re Loyola, for reasons unbeknownst to me, DePaul has almost always been the bigger fish in Chicago. Any future Papal Conference would more likely include DePaul, as opposed to Loyola, even though Loyola is the Jesuit school. DePaul and Loyola have resumed their nonconference series. But one wonders if the presence of Loyola in the MCC made DePaul stay out of that league when Marquette joined it.

[Billiken Law]

anyone who thinks Marquette and DePaul (first mention of them - I thought Marquette was the only evil one, the puppetmaster in this whole thing) were the controlling forces in this whole thing and both (especially MU) went out of their way to screw SLU needs to get a grip on the business aspect of college sports. Marquette and DePaul were just as vulnerable as SLU and Charlotte in this whole thing - they too were being screwed over by CUSA. They could have stayed in a watered down conference with even less in common geographically and ideologically than the current conference or they could have looked out for #1 - and that was themselves. Maybe some anger should be directed towards Xavier, St. Joes and Dayton since they obviously didn't stand "shoulder to shoulder" and demand the formation of a Papal Conference.

The reality was that no "Papal Conference" was going to form, staying in CUSA was not a realistic option and not all of the programs were going to or could demand to be taken as a package. If the Big East called Marquette and said we want you and DePaul, and Marquette said "only if you take SLU and/or Charlotte too" Xavier and Dayton would be your new Big East members. Seriously, if it had been SLU and DePaul invited would SLU have said "not unless you take Marquette?" I'm sure SLU would have felt the same sense of loyalty as they did to Dayton and Xavier and Evansville in the past when the GMC and CUSA were formed and I wouldn't have blamed them one bit.

SLU is better off today than they were 1 year ago. I think things worked out great for them and Woolard deserves credit for making sure SLU would be taken care of. The Bills now have stability and are in a conference with (for the most part) like-minded schools. So is Marquette, so is DePaul and so is Charlotte. It's win-win for everyone and there is no need for anger and bitterness. If you are still so upset think about how Creighton, who had been approaching SLU for years about getting in the same conference with them, just shelled out a ton of money to keep their coach and is moving into a beautiful new facility feels today. THEY got screwed.

The best thing for SLU now would be as Andy Katz mentioned today, addition by subtraction. The A-10 has a very good core but they need to jettison a few members (Duquense, Fordham). But even with those 2 the new A-10 is just as strong as CUSA was and the playing fields are MUCH more even. This should be a happy day for all Billiken fans, not one spent wishing ill will upon MU and DePaul.

But if you want to continue to believe that Marquette single-handedly deliberately "screwed" SLU and that if not for them the Papal Conference would have been formed then you probably also believe Elvis is alive and he and JFK control the world.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I'm not Jesuit, and I'm not catholic. I didn't attend Saint Louis U. and likely never will. I'm a SLU fan and enjoy SLU basketball, but I don't want to be lumped in with Jesuits and Catholics. I have nothing against them, but I'm not one of them. I couldn't care less that SLU, DePaul, and Marquette are Jesuit and that Cincinnati, Memphis, and Charlotte are not. In fact, I don't care that some are private and others public. All I care about is for SLU to be a top-notch basketball program, and part of that is being a member of a conference of top-notch basketball programs. If the Big Ten were interested in SLU, I'd take that in a heartbeat. All this talk about like-minded schools means little to me.

I'm not one who has a grudge against Marquette and DePaul, but if I did, it would be because they were fellow conference members with SLU and are now going a different way, and whether or not they're Jesuit has nothing to do with it.

I'm not going to be one who says, "Keep the discussion on sports," to the exclusion of academic comparisons and similarities in locale or educational mission, but please don't try to lump all SLU fans into a category.

[CentFLBilliken]

No one here said that Marquette deliberately screwed SLU. But whether you like it or not, their actions did damage us. SLU fans have every right to be bitter about the situation. Marquette is no longer a friendly institution to us.

To me I view teams in our conference as partners. Everyone else, I dont care about. Marquette is no longer in our conference. They made a decision not to be. So screw them, I wish them nothing but bad luck.

I hope Brad steals every good recruit from Wisconsin. Except for those damn Dieners. You can keep the rest of those guys.

[kshoe]

I'd like one.

[Schasz]

No Travis Dieners but there is one Kevin Lisch that I desperately want to see in Billiken Blue.

[billiken_roy]

well i have been to graceland a few times and you know they dont allow anyone on the second floor........hmmmmmmm.........

i admit it was a business decision. good for them. the dollars do make the deal make big time sense. no denying that. that doesnt mean i have to like it.

and as to past deals, i dont know what happened. i have been told that indeed slu did fight for dayton and xavier and that cincy demanded they it was the bearcats or the not if the flyers and/or musketeers were in. at that point, at least slu continued to play dayton.

i wasnt there, but that is always the story i heard on xavier and dayton not being in the gmc and cusa.

as to if marquette and depaul if they didnt go, dayton and xavier would have, my guess is that cincy would have again blocked it. so i dont believe that for a second either. now if my couple of posts costs us a future position in the papal conference in 6 years, i am sorry.

[TheA_Bomb]

What you all fail to grasp is that it is fun to hate other schools. Just let it flow out of you and you'll feel much better. Dare I say it? Feel the Power of the DarkSide.

Our Problem at SLU is that as fans we are too lackadaisical we need someone to hate to get us riled up. I grew up (and still am) an AUBURN fan. You don't understand the hate betwixt the two schools AU and University Alabama Tuscaloosa (Uat). My Uncle and Auburn grad won't watch Forest Gump because he played for Bama and won't watch Crimson Tide because of the name. He won't even wear crimson.

I want us to get riled up. I personally hate SPUMAC. Why you ask? Well I didn't always hate them there was a time when I was young and I went there to party. Well I never had a good time and I always have a good time when I go out to party. SPUMAC had left this bad taste in my mouth.....it was the taste of hoosierness. I realized that as I realized their fans were all living in a fantasyworld that SPUMAC was some basketball powerhouse. I even argued with a family member of mine (by marriage) about how SPUMAC didn't measure up to Arkansas for basketball. They felt it did. I supplied the numbers. Well, they don't this whole fantasyland is created in Missouri and people buy into it. Well I don't I hate SPUMAC.

What is my point? Well we need people to hate makes the games more interesting and gets us pumped up.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Besides the fact that A_Bomb has watched one too many McDonald's commercials, I'm hating SLU's not being a great program. Sure, I "hate" (i.e., have a strong desire to see go into a competition sinkhole) Duke, North Carolina (most of the ACC? I no longer root for Maryland), Kansas, and Illinois, but I couldn't care less about most other programs. Maybe you can add Florida to the list one day. I'm just a homer. But hating the competition won't make SLU any better or the competition any worse, so I just put my emotional interest into desiring SLU to be better.

[Schasz]

I kind of like how that military training can and does transcend into how one can view a foe in a sporting event. I am going to try that real hard while I sit in the Orange Bowl on Saturday. Yea, I freakin hate Miami....go Vols!!! It's fine with me to hate an opponent, as no one on earth hates to lose anymore than I do.

[CentFLBilliken]

That shoud be a heckuva game. Miami sucks though. The city, not the university. The Orange Bowl is a dump on the scale of the old St. Louis Arena.

Please kick Miami's butt. The funny thing is we ultimately have that greedy little troll Ms. Shalala and her beloved Canes for the predicament that we are currently in. I sat two seats from her at the Miami Baseball SuperRegional last year. I would have slapped her if I would have known what she was up to.

[kshoe]

Cinci was not in a position of power on this move. Everything I read suggested Louisville was in for sure but Cinci had to fight and claw to be included because of their bad football team and questionable reputation. Thus, in my opinion Cinci would have had little power to veto a potential Xavier addition. Seemingly, the only reason the two choosen weren't Xavier and Marquette was that Trangese only wanted to raid 1 conference and thats why Depaul got the nod over Xavier or Dayton.

[bonwich]

DePaul is NOT a Jesuit university.

Marquette is, and although it didn't make a big difference in the whole conference shuffle (which appears, thank God, S.J., to be over), it could have made a little difference, since there's this thing called the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities

www.acjunet.edu

where, *theoretically*, presidents and administrators pursue common goals for the institutions run by the Men Astutely Trained. In the old days, when Jesuit universities actually had lots of Jesuits around, there was a degree of faculty mobility and a bit more closeness among the institutions. (I once managed to snag a very cool place to stay in Rome, right next to the Vatican, just because I was a double Billiken. And then there was lunch at Castel Gandolfo, but that's a story for another day.)

Anyway, as an old-school Jesuit-trained grad, I have to admit some discomfort with all the Marquette bashing. We may be "brothers" who have tended to beat each other up with frequency, but we're still brothers.

[davidnark]

As a jesuit triple-jumper, I find that it is possible to criticize the athletic programs of a fellow jesuit university like Marquette, while still recognizing and appreciating the redeeming qualities of the unversity as a whole.

With respect to athletic conference affiliation, Marquette did what was best for Marquette; I can't fault them for making this decision, but I can dislike them for it.

[Scrivener]

Agreed, Nark: Marquette doesn't get a pass just by virtue of being a Jesuit university. But they can go a long way toward soothing my ruffled feathers by doing things like continuing to schedule the Billikens in the future.

It's hard to know what's beeing going on behind closed doors at these conference affiliation meetings. Still, I have to believe we'da done what Marquette did if the shoe were on the other foot.

What it boils down to, IMO, is whether the Golden Warriors now start trying to act like God's gift to college basketball. If they do, then I say a pox on their basketball house. We know where they came from... and frankly, SLU is in pretty much the same zip code.

[xujoe]

I think you are right about DePaul and Loyola and the MCC. It is my understanding that DePaul would not join as long as Loyola was there and Xavier (mainly Jeff Fogelson, A D; now A D as Seton Hall) would not give Loyola the boot. Had Xavier not tried top be so loyal to Loyola, tha MCC might still be together today as a powerful midwestern based basketball league.

[Billiken Rich]

>What it boils down to, IMO, is whether the Golden Warriors

>now start trying to act like God's gift to college

>basketball. If they do, then I say a pox on their basketball

>house. We know where they came from... and frankly, SLU is

>in pretty much the same zip code.

There are warrior fans on this board who are already acting that way.

F'um!

[Lobo]

Good post and I agree.

[Schasz]

CentFLBilliken,

UT really has not played very well at all so far this year. For a Sr. Casey Clausen has been very eratic. VA Tech sure did not do the Vols any favor beating up Miami last Saturday night. The Canes will be minus a couple defensive starters. I have heard the oddsmakers have this game set at about 11 points. I would be happy if it is closer than that because it will be a good game. We are staying at South Beach...a first for me. Go Vols!!!!

[CentFLBilliken]

Is Clausen really the heir to the pickle fortune or is that just Gator people talking smack? Also, is he 40 years old?

[Schasz]

I don't know about the pickle empire...I thought that the day I saw him dismantle Michigan in the Citrus Bowl when he was a Soph that he could be a special player. It hasn't quite turned out that way for Casey. By the way, his brother transfered to UT from LSU and supposedly the best of the lot of brothers is in HS back in SoCal.

I have heard some rumblings about UT playing some hotshot young back tomorrow who hasn't gotten much PT if any...heard his name and it escapes me. Anyway, he is the son of a former NFL player.