Knollmeyer and the Future

[Guest BillikenReport]

I know the difference between the two players.

I was the one trying to explain AM was basically a 6-3 power forward, while some people were calling him a guard.

Majerus has said a couple times AM doesn't fit into the system of what they are trying to run.

I think in the preseason AM showed enough good things that the coaching staff planned on using him, but I don't know what has happened with that since. Considering he's only played in eight games, I'm sure the coaches would have liked to have redshirted him this season to save a year of his eligibility.

The problem with AM is where he fits in. To play next year, he'll have to beat out Eckerle and Relphorde — and Femi John and possibly Brian Conklin — for playing time behind either Lisch or Liddell. If SLU brings in Kyle Cassity, you're talking about a guard who is taller than Mitchell that handles the ball and shoots it better.

[Clock_Tower]

Considering he's only played in eight games, I'm sure the coaches would have liked to have redshirted him this season to save a year of his eligibility.

B Report. Good comments and agree with most of your thoughts on AM; however, why would the coaches have liked to have redshirted him? Not to mean or harsh, but RM can recruit AM types in his sleep. I have never seen AM (other than in preseason game and a minute here or there) so I cannot judge how good (or not) he will be. But I don't understand why we would want to redshirt 6'3" power forwards who don't fit into the system RM is trying to run. Are we expecting him to grow 5 inches during the redshirt year?

Most of the time, redshirting is used to allow much taller guys to add weight and develop co-ordination.

[Clock_Tower]

You can not even begin to guess who might be out until you see who RM signs. If he signs another guard and or a wing then PE is out - I know some on the board are very high on him but he really is not capable of logging big minutes at the guard spot at the level we want to play. He is not a good shooter at least when he is in the game and he is not that great of a passer. If we had someone else this year to play guard then he would not be playing at all. I know he is a freshman and I appreciate his ability to figure it out so to speak but he just has too many limitations to keep a schollie if RM signs other type players then he could hold on. DM, I have no idea what is up with him. Why he stayed this semester is a mystery to me. Maybe they can get him on some type of non-athletic schollie so he can at least finish school if he chooses to do so. It is also possible that Reed might be in more trouble academically then we think and RM is knows this. Since he was going to red shirt anyway perhaps we can get him to a friendly junior college and he can play a year there. What I have outlined above would free up to 3 schollies if needed and of course any combination of them would free up 2.

Cheese.

Agree with your thoughts on Reed. If RM signs 3, then I would bet that the 3rd guy replaces Reed. As to junior college, if he does not qualify, then he would he not have to play 2 years/graduate. Other guys, who qualified but chose not to play Div 1 can play 1 year and transfer.

As to who might go, I am confident that RM will apply the needed pressure to make someone go if they resist. Sorry Roy, but not every kid who left RM's team did so because the kid wanted to. No doubt many kids mutually agreed with RM to leave and several others left even if RM wanted them to stay; however, IMO RM has pushed out guys before and will do so again. The same will happen this spring.

RM is being paid $1 million plus, he has an ego larger than life, he has plans to really ramp-up the level of play in his short time left and he will not be affected by a kid who wants to stay, be coached not only by RM but also by Biancardi and Moser (both of whom will be better than the kid's new coach at a lesser Div 1 or Div2 school) get his degree from a quality school, etc.

[billiken_roy]

nate you obviously did not see anthony mitchell play or what you did was very little while he was in high school. yes he did score a lot near the basket. but not because he was posting up and scoring like a power forward. harold was and still is the eastside inside guy and if anyone was the power forward for eastside it was aveon jones.. mitchell played on the wing and even brought the ball up with sain against the press. he could score inside because he was quick enough and strong enough to get to the basket from the wing position and succeed.

he also would guard the best guard on the opposing team night after night. not the inside players.

i doubt the reason mitchell isnt playing is because he is a 6'3" power forward.

count me as one of those that also believe mitchell has more upside than eckerle. eckerle has indeed done an acceptable job as a backup guard this season. making an argument that he plays more than polk at the end of the games thus he is a good player is pretty weak. a lot of us see polk as a very limited player that has not helped much.

eckerle likely plays because he showed an ability to pick up on direction quickly and do the right thing. not that other players were slackers or disobedient but just not as good at picking things up immediately.

that doesnt mean that eckerle is going to inherit polk's job next year or lisch's the year after.

mitchell may be out as a billiken. and who knows why he never got his chance. all i know is that the mitchell i saw last year was a darn good high school player that indeed could have contributed if the coaching staff would have sought fit to put him in that position. and one that i find hard to believe wasnt at least as good if not better than eckerle was this year.

[Major Majerus]

I also thought he had a huge upside based on the pickup I saw - athleticism plus and an in your face attitude. His shot was funky, but we saw what Tommy has done with his. I see him at the 3 as a slasher and getting many rebounds due to his quickness. Could be all conference on defense with teaching and desire. Way too soon to close the book on him.

[Clock_Tower]

count me as one of those that also believe mitchell has more upside than eckerle. eckerle has indeed done an acceptable job as a backup guard this season. making an argument that he plays more than polk at the end of the games thus he is a good player is pretty weak. a lot of us see polk as a very limited player that has not helped much.

eckerle likely plays because he showed an ability to pick up on direction quickly and do the right thing. not that other players were slackers or disobedient but just not as good at picking things up immediately.

Roy. Human nature to over estimate athleticism. Flair and style are valued higher than blue collar, getting the job done style of play.

Count me as one who cannot understand why the obsession with wanting RM to turn basketball projects in "role players" and "contributors". Why cannot we bring in Freshmen who already are "contributors" and then, with RM coaching, turn into stars.

SLU really is allowed to have some success for the first since time since Easy Ed.

[cheeseman]

I know the difference between the two players.

I was the one trying to explain AM was basically a 6-3 power forward, while some people were calling him a guard.

Majerus has said a couple times AM doesn't fit into the system of what they are trying to run.

I think in the preseason AM showed enough good things that the coaching staff planned on using him, but I don't know what has happened with that since. Considering he's only played in eight games, I'm sure the coaches would have liked to have redshirted him this season to save a year of his eligibility.

The problem with AM is where he fits in. To play next year, he'll have to beat out Eckerle and Relphorde — and Femi John and possibly Brian Conklin — for playing time behind either Lisch or Liddell. If SLU brings in Kyle Cassity, you're talking about a guard who is taller than Mitchell that handles the ball and shoots it better.

All good points - I had not heard the one about the staff liking him at first but then some kind of change of heart has taken place.

[Archy McNally]

I can play this game. Who has more upside as freshman: Danny Brown or Kevin Lisch... Monroe Douglass or Kevin Lisch... Matt Baniak or Kevin Lisch... Justin Tatum or Kevin Lisch. Now who would you rather have. I am exaggerating the players to make my point, but the point still holds.

And by the way, if you want to bring up how AM did in HS, PE was unbelievable. He averaged 25 a game, about twice as much, while everybody tried focused on stopping him, similar to what has happened to Kevin this year. He had to play his absolute best every play and that is why he is playing more than the other guys this year. Didn't he outplay the great Scott Suggs at Washington?

[Archy McNally]

And one more thing. Everybody is looking at trying to replace PE when he has played well for a freshman. This happens every year. Justin Johnson should come in and replace Luke Meyer. Newborne is going to be better than Chris Sloan (the most underrated player by the Bill's fans), Dwayne Polk will be better than Josh Fischer... the fans here do not give the players their due. None of those players are stars, but they were darn good players.

[billiken_roy]

I can play this game. Who has more upside as freshman: Danny Brown or Kevin Lisch... Monroe Douglass or Kevin Lisch... Matt Baniak or Kevin Lisch... Justin Tatum or Kevin Lisch. Now who would you rather have. I am exaggerating the players to make my point, but the point still holds.

And by the way, if you want to bring up how AM did in HS, PE was unbelievable. He averaged 25 a game, about twice as much, while everybody tried focused on stopping him, similar to what has happened to Kevin this year. He had to play his absolute best every play and that is why he is playing more than the other guys this year. Didn't he outplay the great Scott Suggs at Washington?

archy if your insinuation is that kevin lisch isnt very athletic, you are crazy. your point is not well taken.

[Clock_Tower]

archy if your insinuation is that kevin lisch isnt very athletic, you are crazy. your point is not well taken.

Arch. Not sure of your point either. Lisch, Douglas and Baniak (Tatum would have been but for academic issues) were all starters their freshman year. PE is not and is not comparable to them. Does PE play more than DP, sure. Does that mean RM will take us deep into the tourney with PE type players? I don't think so. Will ever RM recruit absolutely be better than PE? I hope so but cannot guarantee you. I can say that unless we try, we will never know. Also, call it blind trust if you will; however, I am trusting RM will bring in better recruits than Newberry and Justin Johnson. If you think otherwise, then I understand your desire to keep PE because we might not be able to replace him.

I am not attempting to trash our contributing players. I am very pleased we have PE and the others on this team. Along these lines, I am please to have LM this year and appreciate the hard work by our seniors and the improvement by AK and MR. Starting next year, though, we must dramatically upgrade our talent. IMO, giving "role players" valuable athletic scholarships is not smart when we can still have PE contribute as a walk-on and/or academic scholarship guy. Don't believe anyone is suggesting that we cut PE from the team.

Sorry to hit a nerve about PE but as president of the PE Fan Club, please send me an 8 x 10 signed glossy.

[davidnark]

count me as one of those that also believe mitchell has more upside than eckerle. eckerle has indeed done an acceptable job as a backup guard this season. making an argument that he plays more than polk at the end of the games thus he is a good player is pretty weak. a lot of us see polk as a very limited player that has not helped much.

eckerle likely plays because he showed an ability to pick up on direction quickly and do the right thing. not that other players were slackers or disobedient but just not as good at picking things up immediately.

Roy. Human nature to over estimate athleticism. Flair and style are valued higher than blue collar, getting the job done style of play.

Count me as one who cannot understand why the obsession with wanting RM to turn basketball projects in "role players" and "contributors". Why cannot we bring in Freshmen who already are "contributors" and then, with RM coaching, turn into stars.

SLU really is allowed to have some success for the first since time since Easy Ed.

I think there is a lot of basketball-based racial bias going on here. Everyone assumes that the 6'3" black kid from ESL is much more athletic than the 5'11" white kid from Washington, MO. AM may be a great athlete, but Eckerle is a super athlete in his own right. Eckerle is quick, strong, and has an excellent vertical. How many people at his height--regardless of race--can dunk the ball with ease? He can't help his size, but everyone is selling the kid short by assuming that he is only playing because he picks up the system quickly or is fundamentally sound. In fact, my biggest criticism of PE is the inconsistency of his outside shot, not his athletic limitations. Here is a quote from a PD article a few months ago:

Last season, Eckerle averaged 24.7 points a game and shot 44.2 percent on 3-pointers. Eckerle was recruited by some Division I schools — "He's as athletic as anyone I've seen,'' said Missouri State coach Barry Hinson.

[Majerus Magic]

I think there is a lot of basketball-based racial bias going on here. Everyone assumes that the 6'3" black kid from ESL is much more athletic than the 5'11" white kid from Washington, MO. AM may be a great athlete, but Eckerle is a super athlete in his own right. Eckerle is quick, strong, and has an excellent vertical. How many people at his height--regardless of race--can dunk the ball with ease? He can't help his size, but everyone is selling the kid short by assuming that he is only playing because he picks up the system quickly or is fundamentally sound. In fact, my biggest criticism of PE is the inconsistency of his outside shot, not his athletic limitations. Here is a quote from a PD article a few months ago:

Agreed. There is such a stigma against PE and I don't think it will ever change. People can make excuse after excuse on why he shouldn't be playing but I guarantee you he will always find his way onto the court. If people haven't noticed, athleticism is not a requirement to play for Majerus' system. It's all about smarts and Paul has proven that he has picked it up faster than almost anyone.

By the way, I'm the resident Borgia fan club president. Sorry Archy.

[cheeseman]

And one more thing. Everybody is looking at trying to replace PE when he has played well for a freshman. This happens every year. Justin Johnson should come in and replace Luke Meyer. Newborne is going to be better than Chris Sloan (the most underrated player by the Bill's fans), Dwayne Polk will be better than Josh Fischer... the fans here do not give the players their due. None of those players are stars, but they were darn good players.

I am not sure anybody ever thought Polk would be better than Josh Fisher - besides they were not on the team at the same time. Truth is if JJ had played up to his physical attributes, LM would not have been the starting PF - he would have been a 3 where he should have been playing all along. VN was another one who no one ever thought would be better than Sloan and once again, neither were on the team at the same time.

I hope PE becomes the best guard SLU ever had - I would not hold my breath over it but he could end up being a good guard for the team when it is all said and done. My only question is why was he still out there this summer when RM saw him? - the answer probably is that he had decided not to play basketball and to concentrate on his studies - laudable but when will he realize he has to do this again? - I bet after his sophomore year he will have to give some serious thoughts to giving it up to concentrate on his studies. My son has an undergrad degree in biochemistry with minors in biology and chemistry and the time he had to spend in the lab as he progressed in school was very demanding. If PE has to do the same, there is noway he can do justice to both his studies and basketball. A family friend's father was recruited by Adolph Rupp when he coached at Kentucky years ago and when Rupp found out that he wanted to be a doctor Rupp told him to make up his mind - do you want to play basketball at Kentucky or be a doctor because you can not do both. He choose to be a doctor. I know RM has given great latitude to PE for missing practices to do his labs but the time he spends in the lab as a freshman will be nothing compared to when he is a junior and a senior. RM will probably keep his word but what about games and travel - sorry, if PE can play and keep his studies up for all four years then he is a very extraordinary person. - Good Luck!

[Guest BillikenReport]

I'm glad others have picked up on the bias going on here.

Roy, did you ever see Paul Eckerle play in high school? He won a state championship as a junior with Alex Moosmann and then had a breakout senior season. Eckerle was a better player in high school than Anthony Mitchell was.

For a lot of people, this is probably more about a 6-foot kid from Washington, Missouri, vs. a 6-3 kid from East St. Louis, Illinois, and the perception of who should be the better player.

The same perception was why people didn't think Luke Meyer should be recruited by SLU and the kid has gone on to have a nice career there.

I'm sure the coaches are just trying to hold Mitchell back because they don't need all that production from him. The coaches are playing the guys who are contributing the most, which is why you saw Danny Brown playing more than Polk and Eckerle in the last game and certain guys are getting a lot more minutes than others.

But it's interesting to see the legend of Anthony Mitchell growing on here even though he's scored three points in seven games this season.

- Nate

[brianstl]

By the way, I'm the resident Borgia fan club president. Sorry Archy.

There is no doubt about that. Your credentials have been established.

[moytoy12]

But it's interesting to see the legend of Anthony Mitchell growing on here...

Anthony Mitchell is 7 feet tall. Kills men by the hundreds, and if he were in the game he'd consume the opponent with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his ass.

[NashvilleBilliken]

Anthony Mitchell doesn't play because he doesn't understand how to play within Rick's system. This is an undisputable fact. I've personally heard rick say that twice. Paul, on the other hand, not only understand the system, but he also contibutes in it. That is why he recieves a lot of minutes. I would love to see AM get minutes because 1. he brings a lot of athleticism to the floor 2. he brings height to the floor (listed at 6'5"). But if the kid doesn't understand the system, he will only hurt the team. Based on limited minutes i've seen the kid, it does appear he has nice upside. He did real well during mop up minutes against GW. But it was mop up minutes, so not much of a system was in place. I feel he played well because he was all over teh court, got a couple of rebounds, and played with a very high intensity. I think there is a spot for AM on a good Billiken team, i just don't think he's there yet. I don't think anybody can say that AM is better than PE right now, because that's obviously not the case.

[brianstl]

Anthony Mitchell is 7 feet tall. Kills men by the hundreds, and if he were in the game he'd consume the opponent with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his ass.

Didn't he lead 300 Spartans in holding off 10,000 Persians at Thermopylae?

[Majerus Magic]

Anthony Mitchell is 7 feet tall. Kills men by the hundreds, and if he were in the game he'd consume the opponent with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his ass.

And he rides a blue ox

[moytoy12]

Didn't he lead 300 Spartans in holding off 10,000 Persians at Thermopylae?

Barefoot, uphill (each way) in the snow.

Also, I heard he's half werewolf.

[Majerus Magic]

I am not sure anybody ever thought Polk would be better than Josh Fisher - besides they were not on the team at the same time. Truth is if JJ had played up to his physical attributes, LM would not have been the starting PF - he would have been a 3 where he should have been playing all along. VN was another one who no one ever thought would be better than Sloan and once again, neither were on the team at the same time.

I hope PE becomes the best guard SLU ever had - I would not hold my breath over it but he could end up being a good guard for the team when it is all said and done. My only question is why was he still out there this summer when RM saw him? - the answer probably is that he had decided not to play basketball and to concentrate on his studies - laudable but when will he realize he has to do this again? - I bet after his sophomore year he will have to give some serious thoughts to giving it up to concentrate on his studies. My son has an undergrad degree in biochemistry with minors in biology and chemistry and the time he had to spend in the lab as he progressed in school was very demanding. If PE has to do the same, there is noway he can do justice to both his studies and basketball. A family friend's father was recruited by Adolph Rupp when he coached at Kentucky years ago and when Rupp found out that he wanted to be a doctor Rupp told him to make up his mind - do you want to play basketball at Kentucky or be a doctor because you can not do both. He choose to be a doctor. I know RM has given great latitude to PE for missing practices to do his labs but the time he spends in the lab as a freshman will be nothing compared to when he is a junior and a senior. RM will probably keep his word but what about games and travel - sorry, if PE can play and keep his studies up for all four years then he is a very extraordinary person. - Good Luck!

Sophomore year would actually be the hardest year for Paul I do believe. After that, he only has to take his core Pre-Med courses. Pre-med isn't a major its just a list of core classes. So once he gets all those out of the way he could be a philosophy major ( or something akin) and not have to be in lab all that much his junior and senior season.

[NH]

Agreed. There is such a stigma against PE and I don't think it will ever change. People can make excuse after excuse on why he shouldn't be playing but I guarantee you he will always find his way onto the court. If people haven't noticed, athleticism is not a requirement to play for Majerus' system. It's all about smarts and Paul has proven that he has picked it up faster than almost anyone.

By the way, I'm the resident Borgia fan club president. Sorry Archy.

I agree too. I think PE gets too many minutes and I am not excactly in his fan club but that has nothing to do with athletic limitationss. the guy has hops. I hope he plays 3 more years at SLU and he will do well. However, I do think that he is not good enough to compete for a stariing job at this point.

[kmbilliken]

I only saw Mitchell play one game in high school, but remember thinking I hope this isn't the kid we're recruiting. It was against Alton and he had a bad offensive game. You could see he could be a good defensive player, but he had a bad looking shot and missed his free throws. I'm sure he was a better player than what I saw that game because he had great rebounding stats and had some good scoring games, but I didn't think he would be able to play for us unless Brad's recruiting woes continued. It would be interesting to see what RM could do with him in 4 years, but I think that's an experiment that's not going to happen.

[slufanskip]

I think there is a lot of basketball-based racial bias going on here. Everyone assumes that the 6'3" black kid from ESL is much more athletic than the 5'11" white kid from Washington, MO. AM may be a great athlete, but Eckerle is a super athlete in his own right. Eckerle is quick, strong, and has an excellent vertical. How many people at his height--regardless of race--can dunk the ball with ease? He can't help his size, but everyone is selling the kid short by assuming that he is only playing because he picks up the system quickly or is fundamentally sound. In fact, my biggest criticism of PE is the inconsistency of his outside shot, not his athletic limitations. Here is a quote from a PD article a few months ago:

Yes, but Hinson recruited Blake Ahearn, so how can you count his opinion.

I'm sorry.