1SLUFAN Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Couple questions I have....why were T's or warnings never instituted during the game? Players were barking all day long, what did the refs think were going to happen? Secondly, I never saw law enforcement on the court either. In my experience, these type of "bad blood" battles typically have law enforcement very, very close by. While a coach can't be blamed for not kicking a player off when his livelihood depends on wins and losses, I think a coach should be fired when the players he recruits resorts to this type of activity. It is my understanding that Yancy had had a few similar episodes in the past. Refs should be fired or at the very least be sent to ref high school ball! Coaches, guilty! Players, all should be suspended for conference games not the cupcake ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 New handle? Explain please. Longtime reader and fan, first time poster. Hmmmmm.... very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 We can fight all day about what "gangster" means to Tu, but I just came across this flattering title http://www.dailymail...rawl-court.html "'We got disrespected so our gangsters went out and zipped them up': Punches thrown and suspensions threatened after crosstown basketball rivals Xavier and Cincinnati brawl on court" Just horrible, horrible PR for Xavier. You cannot defend a title like that- even if Tu meant 'gangster as tough (which I think is still the dumbest thing I have ever heard). Articles have been on Drudge Report all week, so you know millions of people who have never watched a game of College Basketball are seeing that and have made awful assumptions that Xavier is a 'gangster' school. lol. No doubt this is bad PR for Xavier. I can't imagine what was running through the minds of the coaches and SIDs as they allowed the two most egregious trash talkers of the afternoon to sit in front of microphones and dozens of news cameras in the immediate aftermath of one of the biggest brawls in college sports history, one they largely instigated. Xavier's athletic department looked about as sophisticated as the Mayberry Police Department on Saturday. As with a lot of other colleges, what a lot of outsiders know about a school can be filtered through what they know about the well-publicized sports (i.e. Ohio State: corrupt, Duke: douchey, etc.) and not about the schools themselves. Some are more accurate than others. Xavier is about as "gangster" as Branson, Missouri. It's basically SLU but half the size and slightly further away from the city center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Oh, I am aware that Xavier is not gangster. But for a lot of people who have never heard of Xavier, they will now always associate Tu's comments with Xavier as an institute of higher learning. For small Midwest schools who have zero name recognition on the coasts, such as SLU, you cannot allow something like this to happen and if it does it needs to be nipped in the bud before getting national attention. I could only imagine: Usually I get this... Westcoast Guy 1: "hey where did you go to school" - Me: "Oh I went to Saint Louis University" Westcoast Guy 1" "Ohhh ::blank stare::". I would instead get a "Oh you got some hardcore gangsters going there eh?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Hmmmmm.... very interesting. Not that interesting, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromDaEastSide Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Couple questions I have....why were T's or warnings never instituted during the game? Players were barking all day long, what did the refs think were going to happen? Secondly, I never saw law enforcement on the court either. In my experience, these type of "bad blood" battles typically have law enforcement very, very close by. Referees were 2nd tier refs, who probably should not of been hired to work the game. According to StatSheet, the refs primary conference they work are the Horizon, MAAC and MAAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Just as suspected and not surprisngly, the A10 followed the Big East lead and agreed with Xavier's suspensions with no further penalties. Do you wonder what would have happened if it was Fordam and the Bonnies or LaSalle or heck us for that matter? http://www.atlantic1.../121111aac.html I disagree with you Metz .... how can a coach, who's livlihood and employment is contingent on wins and losses, be expected to do anything over and above what the school's administration is willin gto do or is doing? One has to recognize that the administration cannot hold the coach accountable when it is that administration that hamstrings the coach by ejecting some of his key guys. As an administration you can --- and I'm saying you should --- but it has to be everyone on the same page with the sam eunderstanding. You can't dismiss a whole team and then tell the coach he's fired because he didn't go undefeated or make the dance. As for what you attribute to Mack or Miller, pure speculation and conjecture. Given that Mack played at X and against some UC teams in this rivalry, who knows. But we don't really know so why go there and invent that up? It seems apparent to this reader you hate X and just want to take them down. I'd rather do that on the court, myself. As I said before the two commish would get together and do the same thing - never mind that it was the two ***** things to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pelican Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 New handle? Explain please. Longtime reader and fan, first time poster. There was a guy on here that had a similar handle as your handle and he was not liked and was not a Bills fan. I looked at your website; I am confident you are a totally different person with a similar name - that's all. I have to admit that I thought the same thing when I saw your handle a few minutes ago and wondered what was up. I think you are on the level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 There was a guy on here that had a similar handle as your handle and he was not liked and was not a Bills fan. I looked at your website; I am confident you are a totally different person with a similar name - that's all. I have to admit that I thought the same thing when I saw your handle a few minutes ago and wondered what was up. I think you are on the level. Thank you...I will earn your trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someoneelse Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Been reading the Xavier board and they are mostly 'not us, not us' There are some sane posters, but mostly it is laying the blame on UC, forgetting that it was their guy who started the physical part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I think all of it could have been avoided by giving a "T" to the participants of the halftime incident. Officials should have gathered both coaches, issued warnings, awarded "T's" and moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Thank you...I will earn your trust. -welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.hayes Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Wonderful post, 72. What a difference not having Sean Miller on the sidelines makes. I never thought I'd say this, but Sean Miller would have been like Jeff van Gundy out there, trying to pull his guys out of the scrum. Coach Miller wouldn't have tolerated any of this. For all we know, Mack's words in the locker room in the moments leading up to the game or at halftime might have been fuel on the proverbial fire. Chris Mack is way over his head at Xavier and should be ousted immediately. I hope all X alums are calling for his ouster today. I'm not so sure that Sean Miller's own words would support your thoughts: Were I a college basketball coach, I would probably want to stay as far away from Xavier and Cincinnati as possible right now. Both teams severely damaged their school's reputations with Saturday's ugly brawl, and both schools are currently dealing with the massive fallout and public relations nightmares that were always sure to follow. (We'll have reaction to Cincinnati's press conference on the blog soon.) To make matters worse, both schools botched their players' respective punishments . It's a mess. One is best advised to steer clear. Apparently, Sean Miller disagrees. The current Arizona and former Xavier coach spoke out in support of his former players Saturday, actually saying he was "proud" of Xavier for proving their toughness. True story. From the Arizona Daily Star: "If Cincinnati tries to do what they did (Saturday) they're going to get a fight," Miller said after UA beat Clemson on Saturday. "So I'm proud of those guys." [...] "They have a chance to win it all," Miller said. "It's just such a great story. I'm really proud of those guys and I watch them any time that I can. No one's going to bully those guys." One more comment, again from the Daily Star: Miller said he was not surprised Saturday's Xavier-Cincinnati intra-city rivalry game featured a brawl that resulted in eight player suspensions. "Happens every game. I'm proud of those guys, I really am," Miller said of Xavier, his former team. "I would fully expect there to be a fight." Lo and behold, that seems to be the exact same attitude Xavier stars Mark Lyons and Tu Holloway took in their postgame press conferences, the ones that included poorly chosen phrases like "gangsters" and "thugs" and "where we come from" and only drew further criticism and ire. If I may say so myself, it's a warped definition of "toughness." That definition says physical toughness is more important than mental wherewithal. It says talking trash to opponents late in a blowout -- "zipping them up," as Tu Holloway put it -- and being willing to go toe to toe in a fistfight is a more valuable trait than the ability to win with dignity and class. It says toughness is about posture and knuckles, not about the ability to be the bigger person, to merely prove your superiority on the court, to let your play do the talking. How could Miller be proud of that? How could he support anything he saw on Saturday? How does that even compute? Cincinnati-Xavier erupted into what it did because nobody involved apparently understood what "toughness" really is. That's the biggest criticism we've heard in the past few days, especially of Xavier -- that "these guys just don't get it." If their former coach is "proud" of what he saw Saturday, well, no wonder. via ESPN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I'm not so sure that Sean Miller's own words would support your thoughts: via ESPN Wow. The weak suspensions could be a scary precedent if this is how other coaches feel. Lyons and Holloway are Miller recruits, FWIW. Wells was a Mack signee but I think Miller was HC when they started recruiting him. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 As a longtime high school and college coach, I would be appalled if my kids thought this type of activity represented "toughness." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 As a longtime high school and college coach, I would be appalled if my kids thought this type of activity represented "toughness." Where did you coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Where did you coach? Would rather not say - I am at a midwest high school these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pelican Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 As a longtime high school and college coach, I would be appalled if my kids thought this type of activity represented "toughness." Welcome to the board. I agree. The behavior was embarrassing to the schools, alums, coaches, players and themselves. The post-game interviews of the players for X were unbelievable. I cannot believe they were allowed to be put in that position. Mack should be held accountable as well as the players for what was said. Question: How many on here know what the term "gangsta's" meant in context to being tough. I didn't and I am not all that old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I look back at the Legarrette Blount cheap shot and wonder how that in any way differs from the Yancy Gates cheap shot on Frease. Oregon suspended Blount for the rest of the season after that hit. Six games seems inadequate to me in the Gates case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Gangsta's in no way reflect toughness. The original Gangsta's of New York and Vegas were basically cowards who would attack when no one was expecting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Besides the suspensions they also got several players ranked in the WBA heavyweight and cruiser weight divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 -wow, for sean miller to say this stuff is disappointing to me -appears to be the xavier way which is also disappointing to me -and does it become the dayton way? -i am glad we play them at home near the end of conf play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 -i am glad we play them at home near the end of conf play This is going to be a very interesting remainder of the season for Xavier. To start 8-0 and to have this hanging over the program for the rest of the season- and it will, despite the soft suspensions- puts a huge target on their back from now on. Every single road game is going to be more of a challenge after the reaction to that brawl. They're clearly the heavy favorite to win the conference again, but the 5 non-con games between now and the A10 start are going to be telling: can they keep their impressive start going? How will the suspensions affect them? Does Mack have control going forward? I can't decide whether I'd rather play them here in the beginning of January or the end of Februrary. Either way, both of our programs should have solid postseason ambitions at that point (2/28) and Chaifetz Arena should be very, very loud that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Miller's comments didn't surprise me. X became thug U under his watch. I think it is part of the X culture. They wanted to have the results Cincy had under Huggins and were willing to become worse than Cincy under Huggins to get them. I really don't put the biggest part of the blame on the X players they are just a reflection of the style preached by their current and former coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Bill Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I agree with the posters who feel the officiating was sub-par for a game like this. But what do we know? Atlantic 10 Conference officials coordinator Reggie Greenwood ... who was in attendance as an observer, said the crew of Mike Roberts, Tony Crisp and Jeff Anderson “did an excellent job trying to prevent the escalation following the game". Greenwood said he saw nothing in the game that warranted a technical aside from the end of the game and an incident at halftime in which words were exchanged between XU guard Mark Lyons and Cincinnati reserve Octavius Ellis. Officials checked the monitor to see what occurred but did not assign any technical fouls Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-12-12/refs-at-cincinnati-xavier-game-wont-be-disciplined#ixzz1gN8v4jF3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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