Ron Waller commits to Western Kentucky

[Nate Latsch]

This argument about basketball players staying home and "owning" St. Louis is funny.

Next time I see the Maplewood High varsity boys basketball coaching staff (inc. Corey Frazier, John Redden and Matt Baniak) and McCluer coach Erwin Claggett, I'll have to ask those guys how much they enjoy owning the St. Louis area.

Roy,

You know I like you and have the utmost respect for your devotion to all things Billiken, but your post about Drejaj and Newborne getting a job interview over Tyus or Swopshire is just dumb.

Do you think Drejaj or Newborne cared about the St. Louis at all before coming to school here? It's probably likely that neither had ever been to St. Louis before making a recruiting visit here.

Staying and playing basketball here can certainly open up some doors, but are those same doors not open for kids who go to bigger and better basketball programs to find success?

How many people can really hold it against a kid if Scott Suggs chooses to play his college basketball at North Carolina? Or John Brandenburg at Missouri? Or Jared Swopshire at Florida? Or Tyler Griffey at Kansas?

I know one of those kids wants to go to a school where he can compete for national championships ... not just compete for Atlantic 10 titles and the chance to make the tournament once in his four years of college.

- Nate

[Billiken Rich]

"I know one of those kids wants to go to a school where he can compete for national championships ... not just compete for Atlantic 10 titles and the chance to make the tournament once in his four years of college."

You can take that statement and shove it between the lips you never kiss with Mr Nate. I think we'll be in the dance at least once in the next for years. I also counldn't give a rats hindend about Tyler H. more than once a year while enjoying the local success of local Billikens.

[DoctorB]

it was sort of a dull set of arguments.

anyway, a kid has lots of options and it is one of the great life decisions. who would not want to truly compete for a championship, and maybe get to a couple of final fours? If some or all of those flashy junior go elsewhere, it will not be that surprising to me. I sure hope they stay, but can you really blame them if they choose UNC or Duke or Kansas? That is a heavy load to strap onto a teenager.

As for leaving home, nowhere is that taken as seriously as Indiana--I remember when Sean May (son of former player of the year Scott May) chose North Caroline, lots of people just about gave up the farm on that one. But I think they got over it when he hoisted the championship trophy, and I think generally people still consider him a Hoosier--and, if he goes back to Indiana in the future, he will be embraced.

I'll tell you this-- being a former IU Hoosier basketball player in Indiana could really open doors. In fact, Coach Knight would take a sledge and batter down whatever door would not immediately open on its own. I know of several stories of extreme generosity and amazing, proactive influence in which former Hoosier players (not even stars, in some cases) had excellent opportunities presented to them, career-wise--mainly because they were Knight's former players. These are not myths or made up stories. There's the mystique, and then there's the real life benefits.

ps--this all helps explains Eric Gordon's change of mind and selection of Indiana over Ilinois, to me anyway. when SLU reaches that level, where 120 and 12 year old kids dream of playing for SLU, then we will know that our program is really arriving. We are just not there yet, guys.

[slufanskip]

I have to side with Griffster here also. In addition I welcome them back when they come back, if they come back. I wish all of those guys had played at SLU ... but they didn't, it is their life, let them lead it and be happy for whatever success they have. Some people really do just need to go away. I left home (DFW) early in life, I have never returned to live and probably never will ... I found a place I like better.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of Slu72's bid to join the Billiken Blue Kool Aid Club

[kshoe]

Roy is way off base on this one and always has been. I'll say one thing, he's been consistent in his statements dating back to the Robertson, Carawell, White misses of Spoon but he's taken a crazy hard line and it just sounds like he really has a lot of hate for players that choose to play elsewhere.

Crymdog is lucky enough to have chosen SLU, but what if he hadn't, would Roy have been unwilling to help him find a job if he wanted to come back to St. Louis after college?

My parents are as big a Bills fans as you could fine but they NEVER pressured me to go there, in fact they tried to get me to go somewhere else so i could broaden my horizons. Why Roy hates on basketball players that want to do the same thing is beyond me.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I think Roy is being quite extreme, but he does have a point, IMO. Personally, once a kid decides NOT to come to SLU, I could care less about the guy. Not saying that I wish him any ill will , but I could personally care less what becomes of him. And as a booster, if I had Loren Woods or Matt Baniak applying for a job (assuming their skills were in the same ball park), I would certainly choose Matt.

As a booster and supporter of SLU, I feel that is my obligation. Or maybe that's just my prolonged exposure to SEC country. These guys stick together. That's one thing it certainly has vs. our fans. People on here almost seem to put ourselves down at the expense of complimenting another university. Perhaps this is one reason we have no rivals. For lack of a better term, we tend to have a lack of hard asses around here.

[billiken_roy]

nate you are naive if you think that the kid that goes away will be treated the same as the kid that stays and plays for the home team.

i am not saying i will go out of my way to snub someone that does leave, but no way they would be treated the same as a slu student.

like i said, announce at a billiken game chris carrawell is in the house and then announce claggett is there. wanna bet the billiken gets the bigger ovation over the dukie?

hey griffster is right too. if athletes want to take a different path in life, good for them and they indeed will likely find a new set of fans that will love and adore them and they can then call that home. i have no problem with that.

i do have a problem with anyone thinking i have to treat them the same when they come back as any former billiken player.

[billiken_roy]

doc it doesnt hurt that everyone in indy (including the press) was pushing gordon to stay home. i guarantee you no one on the hoosier message boards were suggesting that gordon should go elsewhere to broaden his horizons and play for a more recent final four team. it is embarrassing that our own fans suggest and defend such for locals let alone the casual fans

[billiken_roy]

better go reread my posts kshoe, i dont think i ever said "hate" i imply non-caring or indifferent. they go down a level.

by the way, you are correct, it would be interesting to see what i would have done had my son picked a different school. i guess if it was for the right reasons, i could handle it.

my daughter is talking about wash u. i can tell you this, i have told her that if she wants to go there instead of slu she better be getting a complete full scholarship. between academics and softball she might have opportunities other than slu even with my mandate.

[billiken_roy]

nashville, you tell me i am extreme than use the exact example with different names that i used. kshoe has exagerated my feelings. i am exactly the same as you.

what boggles me is an expectation that somehow we are supposed to honor the local kid that goes elsewhere. i say good for him/her, but then they mean nothing to me from that point forward. no hatred.

and the kid that wants to come to slu they immediately are in an elite class and they bond with slu alums everywhere. i just dont see what is wrong with that.

[kshoe]

highschool basketball as much as you say you do, I would think you would want local players to succeed on the national level just so it can justify the quality of St. Louis region highschool hoops.

Personally, I take pride is seeing the local boys do well on the national level even if they choose to do so outside of SLU.

You may not call it hate, but it comes accross as such, almost as if you are calling against them so that you can point your finger and say "if you had stayed in STL you never would have failed."

Good luck to your daughter. WashU schollys are hard to come by so I hope she lands it.

[Taj79]

I think in the old, more naive way of thinking, what broy attaches himself to was there. I remember being about six years old and reading the roster of the Philadelphia Phillies and being stunned that they were all from California (for the msot part). As a six year old, that was surprising. Nowadays, with the advancement of the game on a global level, let alone a national level, its the norm. Greeks play in St. Louis, Gainesville, Maryland. Nigerians. Lithuanians. Russians. Australians. Why should St. Louisans or New Yorker be any different?

A lot of folks on this board talk about SLU's greatest player. From town, a one-and-doner who I always refer to as "the Legend." I don't really call him by name and that's by choice. I don't consider Larry in the same breath as Claggs, or Hmark or Bonner or Douglas or Hudson. Those guys were four-year players and in my mind deserve really legendary status amongst the honor roll. JUCOs like Dobbs, and Love and Jeffers amd Burns also get charter membership because, well those are the JUCO rules for the most part. Newberry was an exception but he's in too. Guys like Jamal Johnson and Evan Pedersen, hey, nice of you to come home and finish up. But I don't elevate the Legend any higher than Johnson and Pedersen. He was a one and done and while his talent was and is tremendous, he might as well have done the same thing broy describes Carawell and White and others doing. I like the way Coach K doesn't hang jerseys until kids graduate. I think that's as important as the team winning.

[Cowboy]

Roy, in the last 5 years for how many different positions have you been in the place of the interviewer as opposed to the interviewee? just wondering how big a deal your not giving a potential interview to kids that go elsewhere is to the future careers of these misguided individuals.

[Griffster]

I'll chip in for the last time. I to think it is interesting when local kids do well on the national scene. I don' even care what sport? Even the PD has that little section called the "local line" and tells you about stats of kids in St. Louis, what they did in the NFL. I find that interesting. And that's even football. My wifes brother played in the NFL and I used to look for his name in there all the time too. He went to TULSA by the way. But I got used to seeing other kids in there too. It fun to follow local kids, no matter where they go. (too bad off. Lineman don't have many stats though)

I don't go out of my way to follow there careers now.. but even David Lee.. with the Knicks.. yea I want to know how he is doing? Is he getting any clock? Scoring any? etc. etc. I actual spoke with his mom last year... and I found her stories very intriguing. How could you not?

I just don't understand how you seperate being a basketball fan and only a fan of St. Louis bbball. ??? That does not make sense to me. I'm a bball fan and even more so a fan of St. Louis.

Roy we've spoken off line.. I didn't mean to turn this into a thread to beat up on you either. But...we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Look for me down at the scorers table of the shootout. Introduce your self. (if they even have a shootout???) I have been doing stats down there for over 20 years. I will be fun to watch with a little different perspective this year. Hopefully?

Later,

[Orange Julius]

No fudging of the stats Griffster...lol.

[billiken_roy]

griffster, i wont be at the shootout this year. my daughter plays belleville west basketball and they play at edwardsville that night.

from what i am hearing (or rather not hearing), the shootout is a bust this year? i cant remember a year so little has been said about it. the shootout website doesnt even list any games.

i am not sure where it happened that i drifted away from non-billiken basketball either, but i am indeed pretty much exclusively a st louis basketball fan now. i still watch a lot of other basketball, but not near as much interest away from the billikens (and hughes) as i once had. i would go watch a st louis area high school game any day over a non-billiken college game no matter how good the college game combatants would be.

[Griffster]

All I got to say.. is kenny anderson only had 4 assists that year.. They all were amazing... but it was only 4.

That same year Jack Buck was announcing his (KA's) game and he handed me his hall of fame ring. (didn't know me from adam) and turned and walked away to talk to someone!! I wouldn't let anyone else touch it.. until he came back. True story!!!

Yea.. I think the shootout maybe a bust this year to Roy. ??? I don't think you will miss anything. I would pick the college game with local flavor too. Again.. we can agree to disagree.

[VTIME]

>not in my book. if tyus and swopshire (assuming that

>swopshire is headed elsewhere for college as well) came in

>for a job interview in 5 years, and drejaj and newborne came

>in at the same time, drejaj and newborne would get the

>interview and tyus and swopshire would be shown the door.

>let them find work in florida they love it there so much.

So say it real clear for Griffster. If his kid doesnt pick SLU, he's no longer a Saint Louisan and when he comes in a for a job interview, you'll turn him down. Nice sales pitch for the program.

[Cowboy]

Broy, in at least 3 posts yesterday you get on Vtime for not answering your questions about harris stowe and Drejaj and playing in Europe. Why is it that VTIME has to answer your questions when you won't answer questions from others? i don't get it. here is my question to you from earlier in the week that you left unanswered....

Roy, in the last 5 years for how many different positions have you been in the place of the interviewer as opposed to the interviewee? just wondering how big a deal your not giving a potential interview to kids that go elsewhere is to the future careers of these misguided individuals.

[billiken_roy]

i've been in a management position at every company i have worked at since the late 80's. i have interviewed 100's of potential employees.

[Sheltiedave]

I've been fortunate to have a couple of the 1950 World Cup team members as parishioners at our church, and I'm about tongue-tied every time I talk to them. They are almost gods in my book, and I don't care that much about soccer.

ANY basketball fan will cut members of his/her favorite team better terms in a given situation if possible. The big advantage hometown kids have at Saint Louis is to create a larger mountain of achievement.

Tyler H. goes to North Carolina and doesn't win the championship - heck, he didn't even drive the team that far. To many NC fans, last year was a disappointment. If he went to Saint Louis(not any chance, but if he had)and we went that far, people would be dancing deliriously in the streets. Tyler's jersey would sell out in every store, etc.

In the end, Brad really needs to sell incoming kids on the education they will get. While basketball is good and improving, the education is great, and will allow grads to do quite well in their lives.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Why are we blaming the kids for not selecting SLU?

I have a lot of questions>

Why did Romer struggle at SLU and goes to Washington to become a recruiting wizard? Why did Spoon leave prematurely and admits recruiting is such a chore here? It may not be BS fault that we don't have any fall committments.

I think we need to start looking internally.