Jacob Pullen

[SLURadioBoy]

According to scout.com, Pullen is down to 2 teams, but I'm not sure who the two teams are. Does anyone have a subscription? I was just wondering if SLU happened to be a finalist. Thanks!

"Praises we sing, to you our alma mater,

Praise to the white and blue.

Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you,

We hail Saint Louis U."

Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer

[BLIKNS]

It looks like it down to K-State with high interest and Dayton with medium interest,and everyone else no interest.

[3star_recruit]

Here's Brian Stinnette's take.

http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles1/pullensept.html

Class of 2007 Proviso East star Jacob Pullen had a strong in-home visit with Kansas State University head coach Bob Huggins on Sunday, and is very close to winding down his recruitment. Pullen ranks as one of the elite Class of 2007 basketball prospects in the state of Illinois.

Pullen will be hosting St. Louis University tonight (Monday), and will also likely meet with Dayton later this week ahead of making a final decision on his collegiate destination

[cheeseman]

Why would Pullen still have Brad come in if he has narrowed it to Dayton and KState?

[slu72]

Sounds to me as if it's 3 in the running. Go Brad. Huggy will be hard to beat, unless his parents know that Huggy's teams are basically made up of reform school grads and instead of atetnding a graduation ceremony they attend a probation hearing.

[billfan4life]

Josh Harrelson commits to Western Illinois

http://www.hoopmasters.com/

[billiken_roy]

i find that hard to believe. vtime assured us that harrelson was a must get before a bigtime program snatched him. surely he is going to an sec or big ten school.

[brianstl]

I don't know how good of a team DT will have at Western, but it is sure to be Vtime's favorite area team.

[Hardball]

People who live in glass houses should not.......

At least some schools are getting committments.

The Kool-Aid drinkers are coming out in full force. The fact of the matter is other schools are getting committments while our staff is waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.

I would tell Pullen you either accept our offer by close of business today or we are moving on. This is the same story every year.

It is no wonder why SLU always ends up with their plan D,E,G, H...... Unless of coarse you count Kevin and Tommie for the 1003 time.

[Billiken Rich]

If we were getting commitments from low d1 projects you'd be pissing on Brad's leg twice as hard and three times as often. If you wanted Western Illinois' roster here at SLU we could've had those committments REALLY early.

[brianstl]

I would like to announce my plans to continue my basketball career at SLU. Even thou I have no eligibility left, not in playing shape, and have bum shoulder; I can have the same impact that Josh Harrelson would have on the team. ZERO. There you go Hardball. SLU now has a commitment. Now you can calm down.

[slufanskip]

I have all my eligibility left. I'm committing also.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

[Taj79]

.. what are you saying, that getting a whole bunch of "early" commitments is now the key? Western doesn't even compete at its Mid-Con level, finishing last year at 3 and 13 while being 7 and 21 overall. As Bill Parcells used to say something about baking the cake and controlling the ingredients, maybe the roster is full of substandard ingredients. If this is the best Josh can do, what does that say about his talent level???? I know there is more to it than just that but some pundits on here, including he-who-posts-here-no-more, have trumped up Josh and then this is the best he can do? Forgive me but I'm banking on us having better thing on line than this because if we are losing recruits to Illinois State and Western Illinois straight up, then BS does deserved to be canned. I am hoping on better things and those better be early signings provided they meet the overall goals and objectives. Not knowing what those goals and objectives are means I have to wait for end product and final results to see if it works.

My thoughts are that with Obi, Knollmeyer and Dixon in the fold and all young, does it really make sense to recruit another player in that vein? According to my Vee file, Harrelson's only other offer was from SEMO. SEMO and Western would seem to be in that "under250 RPI" level that we talk about avoiding. If these kids are only on those under 250 radars, can they take us to levels where we want to go? I don't know the answer to that and again in Brad I will have to trust.

This signing, while a pat on DT's back, is more an indictment on Harrelson's talent level in my book. Over time, that may change but it also seems to suggest that some of the junior talent scouts on here are short in evaluating talent themselves. My take.

[3star_recruit]

Harrellson looks the part and has decent athleticism (think Tom Frericks) but he simply hasn't played anybody. It's hard to get a gauge on a kid when his AAU team plays against mostly low major D-1 and D-2 bigs all summer. You can always sign those kinds of unproven players in the spring.

[Billiken Rich]

lol!

[Hardball]

I really do not have a strong feeling on whether or not Harrelson could have played here or not. He certainly had the body, athlectism and with the way the kool-aid drinkers have suggested the SLU staff developed Ian Harrelson may have been a good possibility for a red-shirt. After all many programs like SIU has built their program on the red-shirt philosophy. But my guess on Josh is as good as BS's since he has had the same difficulty in the past determining who can play at SLU and who can't.

Harrelson's committment was really not the reason for my post. My post was directed at the kool-aid drinkers who continually take shots at posters or programs who are getting committments. Say what you will but Western Illinois recieved a committment while SLU is still waiting on one. SIU is done with their 2007 class. Purdue is done with their class. More schools are finishing every day. While SLU continues to wait...wait...wait...wait. We seem to have no definable philosophy on putting a roster toghether. And if you believe what you read the Pullen recruitment seems to be at risk. Who are we missing out on while we wait to loose the Pullen battle? I hope Brad gets Pullen but it appears since SLU is not dictating the pace of the recruitment we are in trouble in closing the deal.

Sometimes the perception of a recruit is what matters. And when SLU continues to get late committments and the players do not pan out the programs perception suffers.

[MU88]

>People who live in glass houses should not.......

>

>At least some schools are getting committments.

>

>The Kool-Aid drinkers are coming out in full force. The fact

>of the matter is other schools are getting committments

>while our staff is waiting and waiting and waiting and

>waiting.

>

>I would tell Pullen you either accept our offer by close of

>business today or we are moving on. This is the same story

>every year.

>

>It is no wonder why SLU always ends up with their plan

>D,E,G, H...... Unless of coarse you count Kevin and Tommie

>for the 1003 time.

According to Scout.com, Pullen favors Kansas State, with Dayton being a distant second. He doubts Dayton will be able to catch up. K-State is in a better conference and the program is on the rise.

[DoctorB]

you might consider this: it would actually be pretty easy to get commitments. Just offer SLU full-rides to a bunch of low level D1 or even high DII players. Duh.

There is a politics of offers, in other words. I frankly am glad that SLU is holding out and only offering top quality talent. Obvioulsy we cannot get all or even most of those guys. But we only have 3 schollies for next year and my guess is there have not been too many more offers made than that--maybe 5 or 6, who knows? maybe only 3. Maybe that is why Leon Powell is still on hold. Sounds to me like if we offered, he would accept. But maybe they are targeting other guys-- like point guards and wings who can score off the dribble and defend other guards.

You cannot go out and offer 10-12 guys, because it is only logical that you will get commitments from the least attractive candidates first. Top programs identify who they want and press them before offering the next guys. I am glad SLU is trying to do that.

Also, we do recruit student athletes but at some point a student starts recruiting a school right back. The school, not just the athlete, becomes the desired object. In the coming years, more athletes will be seeing SLU in that way. They are even now seeing that we only offer select players, and we go after those guys very intensely.

[NashvilleBilliken]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how can you say that SLU is waiting? I don't have a list, but I have seen several (6-7, maybe more) offers out there. It sounds like we just haven't gotten a commitment. It appears that the coach knows who he wants and he's willing to wait for them. Whether or not they commit is an entirely different story altogether (and one that I don't care to discuss anymore). But you can't have it both ways. Either A) offer inferior players who would kill to go to SLU. Or Offer who you really want, hope you can convince the kid to come, and roll the dice on getting turned down. We have a recruit (Dustin) that many are already labeling as a bust having not stepped on our court. But he commited early. We can't have it both ways right now.

[Taj79]

... how would you classify the Leon Powell situation? If you believe all the reports, here is a Top 100 kid, who's had an offer in his hand for some time now, who wants to go to SLU, who is at SLU playing with the guys constantly, and who SLU also seems to want. Yet .. no committment. Blame Brad? Blame the kid? Different track altogether?

I do like your Pullen idea .... on the table, close the deal or walk. I don't like it from the idea/fact that jsut about every kid would say "see ya" when it comes to SLU. I mean in the race that is Pullen versus Kstate, Dayton or us, KState has Huggy and an increasing national presence, Dayton has the YouDee Arena plus student zanies plus a relatively nice history and we got ... squat. If I were the kid and SLU said "take it or leave it" I'd probably leave it. We are just not in a position of any sort of power in these kind of negotiations.

on the other hand, Brad soft sells it, and stay less dictatorial to the kid and believes he has a chanc e... I just don't know. Its not that simple cut and dried from their end in my book.

[Hardball]

"But you can't have it both ways. Either A) offer inferior players who would kill to go to SLU. Or Offer who you really want, hope you can convince the kid to come, and roll the dice on getting turned down."

Nashville there is a third option. Offer superior players and sign them to early committments. That is what good recruiters do or they don't get to coach anymore. Other Head Coaches get early committments. Schools such as Purdue that are "higher" in the basketball world get early committments as well as schools that are lower (SIU) in the basketball world get early committments . Why can't SLU? What is our philosophy? Waiting and loosing and taking Option D every year is not an acceptable philosophy IMO. Would you agree that we appear to be on the same path again this year?

I spoke with a D1 assistant one time and asked how Self always seems to get good players wherever he goes. He claimed Bill Self identifies 2-3 recruits and tells each of them the first one that takes the offer, the offer is theirs. Why can't BS do the same? Now I know we do not compete for the same players as Kansas but it is all relative. This is certainly a way to control the process as opposed to the process controlling you. This philosophy has turn out to be an effective strategy for Self and one that he has used at Oral Roberts, Tulsa, Illinois and now Kansas.

You know what they say about the definition of Insanity.

[TheRaginCajun]

I am not sure you could honestly say that SLU is holding out and only offering top quality talent. Quality talent isn't usually waiting around come spring and that seems to be where we have been doing our recruiting and signing since Soderberg has been here. Its like we are going to Macy's a week after Christmas after everything has been picked thru time after time and being left with the Cosby-esque sweaters. Tommie and Kevin have essentially bailed Soderberg out when it comes to the deficincies in recruiting that are definitely there. Anytime people call out recruiting on this board the only defense offered is well we got Liddell and Lisch. We are constantly taking gambles (Obi and his knee injury, Danny late in the game after transferring from the Academy, JJ after being let go by K-State, Adam Knollmeyer after being let go by Mizzou, Bryce after decommitting from Elon, Horace after gaining eligibilty, and Dustin offering nothing more than what Ahern could have years ago but we determined we were above).

[Billiken Law]

that's on one extreme end of the spectrum. However, at the other end there is the fact that in May this past year 60% of the top 100 players had already committed somehwere and at present only 21 of the top 100 and 34 of the top 150 remain uncommitted and some major programs were done recruiting for 2007 by August. SLU is behind the rest of the programs unless they are deciding to pass on top 100 kids. Of course you don't offer kids for the sake of offering them and getting them to commit, but you also don't sit around and take your sweet time (which backfired with Stemler). Today, with all of the internet and media crap these kids have to put up with, their committing earlier and earlier.

BTW, Andrew Beinert, who I believe was mentioned here as someone SLU was going after hard earlier this summer, committed to Holy Cross.

[Hardball]

Taj,

I really like you posts. They always seem to have a relevant point that is always thought out as opposed to the usual kool-aid response.

So let me answer your question.

First not really knowing what is the truth, does he have an offer or does he not? Here is how I would handle the Powell situation using BS's philosophy and then I will discuss the benefits of the Self philosophy.

If he has an offer ask him to decide or tell him you are moving on. Period. What do you gain by waiting and loosing Option A? Then only to find out that while waitng for Option A your Option B,C,D committed and now you have to take Option E. If Powell provides no committment proceed to Option B. Communicate the same offer. If no committment is gained go to Option C. Communicate the same offer. I think you get the idea. I can understand the wait on special players but I don't think Powell falls in this category. Very good HS player but not a difference maker. I think he could be a good player for us but not one that I would sacrifice our program by waiting for him.

Now my choice would be to follow the Self philosophy. Identify 2-3 players you would be happy with signing. Offer all three at the same time and the first one that takes it the offer is theirs. Under this scenerio you can increase you chances of getiing your A,B, or C Option as opposed to your D,E,F.s. Now if you say that your A,B, C would not committ under these circumstances then you either have identified the wrong level of players or you can't recruit. This philosophy has worked for Self at all levels and would be my most followed philosophy. BS does not have to re-create the wheel just find a wheel that works.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I see what you're saying, but I just don't feel we're in a position to "control the process". I think Brad IS trying to take the upper hand, which is why we are sitting here without any commitments. I think that he is not going to sacrifice his ideal players just to get a commitment. I love SLU basketball to the core...but I honestly don't think we have the mantra right now to play the tough guy. The only way we will get a top flight recruit, is to recruit the hell out of him. Be the first one on the spot. Then call every week. And make that guy a priority. When he's getting wooed by bigger schools, show that he makes a bigger splash in our pond. Show them that we really want the kid...but that takes a lot of time. And more often than not, it could come down to the wire. I'm not saying I wouldn't be a lot happier with commitments. I just think that we have done nothing to merit early commitments from top flight players. Once we make the postseason, and show some sign of a quality program, my opnions will change. All that being said, if we miss on all our A players, and are SOL on the B players, that is a problem...one that killed the program for years due to our buddy Romar.

We'll have to agree to disagree. What do I know anyway, I'm just a programmer who likes to watch bball.