Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I went down to West Pine Gym this afternoon to watch the guys scrimmage, and -- lo, and behold -- AB was running with them. I didn't get to take notes this time, so I apologize that I can't provide your Billiken fix this time. There weren't as many players present today; play was a little more ragged and less intense (for most, anyway -- Kevin Shortal was beating up on Anthony Drejaj!). Chris Sloan wasn't there for long, and Tom Frericks wasn't there at all. The highlight for me was watching Bonner and chatting with him. AB told me a few things about the team, in his opinion. He said they weren't playing hard (today). I asked him what he thinks of Izik Ohanon, and he said that if he told me, he'd probably be off. He said that after he played with him last summer he thought he'd be great, but he wasn't. He said Izik needs to be more physical. Also, AB told the guys that they have nothing on his squad (back in the day). It's Anthony's opinion that his squad would beat the current one; it's also his opinion that the only reason they couldn't beat Xavier back then was the coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Grawer would really appreciate that coaching comment especially coming from AB. I think that Bonner may be correct, and I do count myself as someone who was thankful for what Rich did for our program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 Schasz, are you perhaps twisting the intent of my words? I inferred that Bonner does not think Rich Grawer was very good as a coach -- at least not against Xavier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 My understanding is that the gym is reserved for the men's team two days a week (Tuesday and Thursday), and the times have been either 2:30 or 4:00. I always call the basketball office at 977-3170 to find out the time and location (last Thursday they played in the Simon Rec Center, and I didn't go because I didn't want to deal with having to ask them If I, as a non-member and non-SLU-student, could go in and watch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Not trying to twist anything...just saying I agree with AB's comment and not too surprised he made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 Schasz wrote, "Grawer would really appreciate that coaching comment especially coming from AB. I think that Bonner may be correct, and I do count myself as someone who was thankful for what Rich did for our program." Is the first sentence sarcasm? I didn't read it that way at first. Also, the statement that you are (or were?) thankful for what Grawer did for the SLU program made think you meant that you (and Bonner) though highly of Grawer's coaching ability. Is the general consensus that Grawer was a very good recruiter who was a poor manager and average tactician/strategist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Rich Grawer saved the program from extinction and I will forever be thankful to him for that. He was a good recruiter. His style of bench coaching became maddening at times...what with yanking players in and out of the lineup for any discretion or screw up. He always had someone in his dog house and I seem to remember that even AB made it once or twice. His favorites were Kevin Footes and the Big Chill. No question that Pete Gillen and XU had Rich and the Billikens number. Rich was outcoached in many of those games and many of the L's happened on our home floor. Xavier did have some darn good talent too. How many times did Byron (Barry's brother) Larkin break our heart with his left hand shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 The biggest reason we couldn't get over the hump against Xavier was the Craig Upchurch fiasco. We needed one more good players. Anybody would've been able to coach that team and dominate the MCC. How sweet would a front line of Bonner, Gray and Upchurch been? Damn, it still stings. Hopefully the news at 1:30 will help me start to get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Thicks, does AB's lack of praise for the team give you concern about this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Rich Grawer's coaching reminded me of my high school coach ... when we were winning, it was great. When we were losing, he was pouting and sitting on his hands and yanking guys for such transgressions as tripping over the halfcourt line. I thought we would for sure lose Monroe Douglas after his freshman year ... he was the highest recruit ever and the savior of the program but I remember Rich yanking him after every little error. There was one away game on TV at Bradley that year where Monroe played the game as a yo-yo .... up/down ... in/out .... Rich recruited well in St. Louis ... Douglas, Gray, Bonner, Robinson, Upchurch, Jones, Trice, Roder, Hudson, Lennard, (yes Hudson and Lennard came back from KState and Georgia repsectively), Highmark, Winfield, Claggett, etc ..... but he seemed lost in the Xs and Os of the game. Seemed like we were always working that shot clock for an 18-foot jumper (not even a trey!). I am with Schasz in that he saved the program, but that last year, he was beat, exhausted, not happy with Debbie Yow and the Upchurch thing may have been the last straw. He was burned out and needed to go. Give him the planned Biondi dome and who knows???? There always seemed to be that one team that we could not get over th hump with in those days. Yes, it included Xavier but there was also Oral Roberts (with the Acres team) then Loyola of Chicago (with Andre Moore and Carl Goldstein) and even Evansville (with those crappy softball uniform shirts). We always seemed to be a great #2 team. I think AB's analysis is better than some ..... I haven't seen them play but again, too many new guys with no real point guard makes me extremely nervous for this year. Might add some real belief to the Meyers/Polks/Liddells of the local scene that signing here is indeed good .... playing time will be available. AB's comments on Izik are really scary because so many have invested so much hope in this guy for this year. Not to bash him but time will tell ... the crystal ball remains on the fritz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 It's still pretty early for me.....but I don't quite understand Bonner's take on Izik. Does he think Izik is not going to be as good as we think he is....or that if he becomes more physical, Izik will be a great player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I would like to thank Anthony for confirming a point that I (and others) made earlier in the summer. Some were skeptical . . . http://www.billikens.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/d...ewmode=threaded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 bonner was a great player. at this time, izik is no anthony bonner. i would bet all that anthony is saying is that if izik wants to be a star, he is going to have to work very hard, improve his overall game and CONSISTENTLY produce. until then, he is nothing more than glimmering potential. the reason i agree with bonner comparing the two teams is that bonner and gray are head and shoulders better than our current inside game. from a guard perspective, i dont think that is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Kwyjibo, Thanks for the recall on your previous post. I think that you had Rich's HC at SLU pegged very well. Let's face it though, he did resurrect a program that was brain dead. He was the right man for the job that needed to be done and I'd agree that at his firing...he was pretty well wasted and he needed to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 >Thicks, does AB's lack of praise for the team give you >concern about this year? No, because of two things. First of all, my expectations for this year's team aren't that high: NIT. Second, after Bonner said, "These guys don't work hard," I said, "Coach Brad will change that." AB was judging individual talent, but Brad Soderberg will mold them into a team that will be significantly better than the sum of the parts, and that's something Bonner doesn't know the result of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 >It's still pretty early for me.....but I don't quite >understand Bonner's take on Izik. Does he think Izik is not >going to be as good as we think he is....or that if he >becomes more physical, Izik will be a great player? While I think that last sentence may accurately reflect Bonner's feelings about Ohanon's potential, let me reiterate that Boner's comments came with the disclaimer that he felt the outcome could be opposite of his projection. He thought last year Ohanon would be great, but that didn't happen. He says now that Ohanon needs to be more physical and a jumper isn't enough, but Bonner didn't appear to be aware that Soderberg intends to use Ohanon on the wing on offense. Bonner has his takes on this year's team, but even though he's more of an expert than most of us (and some of us have a level of expertise that's above average as far as basketball spectators go), I wouldn't use his analysis to establish my hopes and expectations for the team. Look to the coaches for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 As a general practice, former athletes tend to look at today's teams and players and think that the teams/players were much better back "in the good old days." I hear real old baseball guys do it all the time even though "back in the good old days" the league consisted of a bunch of skinny white guys. Could you imagine the talent dropoff in baseball today if there were no African-American, Asian, or Latin players? There would be no Sosa, Ramirez, Pujols, Pedro, Renteria, Suzuki, Bonds, Lofton, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I'm not sure of your baseball analogy. Baseball has great comparability since many of the careers are so long. Musial's career overlapped with Dimaggio's and Williams...and Aaron and Mays, etc. Dimaggio's overlapped with Hank Greenberg, Jimmy Foxx etc. Those guys smoked, didn't lift weights, faced a higher pitcher's mound... Baseball, like most athletics, is a sport where hand/eye coordination that separates the greats from the others. I don't buy that today's athletes are better, but I agree they play and train in a totally different environment. And, yeah, there IS a lot of "in my day..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 Let's keep in mind that much of Bonner's analysis of Ohanon and this year's Bills comes as a result of his playing with and against them. I think Bonner's opinion is entertaining, but I wouldn't rely upon it in trying to figure out how this team and these players will fare this season. The players will play for Coach Soderberg during the season in a somewhat different manner than they play by themselves in pickup games. When Izik Ohanon scrimmages against Bonner, it's not quite the same as how he'll do against **current** Div. I players under the direction of Coach Soderberg. The 1988-89 Bills squad may have been able to take out the 2003-04 squad in playground action/scrimmages, but if you play an organized contest between the two squads, with officials, free throws, and Rich Grawer coaching the former and Soderberg coaching the latter, the outcome may not be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Plus, AB has a sculpted body today and years of professional banging. Now, he had a great body while at SLU, but not the body he has today. I wouldn't expect Izik to hold up against him, but AB is not the usual body you come up against in D1 hoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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