Any chance for 5 man recruiting class

[VTIME]

With the class of 2008, they have a a lineup that could intimidate most college and NBA coaches

C John Brandenburg 6'11

PF Brett Thompson 6'11

SF Jared Swopshire 6'7

SG Scott Suggs 6'5

PG Jesse Perry 6'7

Would it be worth it for Brad to promise the kid's anything to get them on campus together. If he can get Perry and Suggs, does he still sign Kramer? Why dont all 5 kids have offers? We graduate 4 schollies in 2008 in Polk, Meyer, Brown, and Husak.

[Orange Julius]

You must be outside of your mind if you think Jesse is a point guard and furthermore that he would play the point over Suggs or Soderberg. Jesse is a small forward.

[p diddy]

What about Jason Smith of Vianney or John Simon of Chaminade. Why don't these two talented sophomores have offers. We can't afford to let this good area talent slip away.

bad boyz for life

[stlsfinest]

>You must be outside of your mind if you think Jesse is a

>point guard and furthermore that he would play the point

>over Suggs or Soderberg. Jesse is a small forward.

I could see Jesse at the PG spot in college. That was basically the position he played for Gateway Tech. He still has a lot of time to work on his game. As of now, his jumpshot doesn't exist, but he passes very well and has shown the ability to penetrate effectively. However, he needs to start finishing at the rim a lot better than he does now. It looks like he struggled on the 17U level, but that was expected. I think he'll be very similar to Tommie Liddell.

[stlsfinest]

>

> What about Jason Smith of Vianney or John Simon of

>Chaminade. Why don't these two talented sophomores have

>offers. We can't afford to let this good area talent slip

>away.

>

>bad boyz for life

Now you're just being silly.

[Slumn1]

Oh sure, that's the reputation we want-promise every recruit whatever they so they will sign. I'm sure that will work.

How far should we go? I won't recruit anyone else but you. You will start as a freshman. You don't have to go to class, we can fix your grades. You will always have plenty of cash. Girls! you want girls? A new car-sure!

By the way, my brothers bosses kid started playing this year in 3rd grade, made his first 4 shots, one from the 3 ft line, I think BS should offer now and promise him Happy Meals every Sunday!

[stlsfinest]

>Oh sure, that's the reputation we want-promise every recruit

>whatever they so they will sign. I'm sure that will work.

>

>How far should we go? I won't recruit anyone else but you.

>You will start as a freshman. You don't have to go to class,

>we can fix your grades. You will always have plenty of

>cash. Girls! you want girls? A new car-sure!

>

>By the way, my brothers bosses kid started playing this year

>in 3rd grade, made his first 4 shots, one from the 3 ft

>line, I think BS should offer now and promise him Happy

>Meals every Sunday!

what reputation do we have right now that's so desirable? Reputation is a funny thing, no one cares how bad it is as long as you're winning.

[Billiken Rich]

Good old Quin Snyder followed your advise and paid for it. I hope to God you are not a cop.....

[VTIME]

>Good old Quin Snyder followed your advise and paid for it.

>I hope to God you are not a cop.....

If Soderberg can coach like you guys say he can then we should be a consensus top 25 team each year with top 100 recruits. This board has unwavering faith in UB, and I dont know why. He has 1 post season appearance in the last 4 years, and that was the NIT.

[SLURadioBoy]

Actually Brad took us to the NIT twice...in 2003 and 2004.

"Praises we sing, to you our alma mater,

Praise to the white and blue.

Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you,

We hail Saint Louis U."

Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer

[slu72]

Big deal, Odom took South Carolina the last two years and made the finals....if they don't make the dance next year he's gone. A lot of people here are mad they didn't replace him with Huggins. When do we develop this attitude? Not saying we want a Huggins, but I wouldn't mind a Crean clone here at SLU.

[p diddy]

I agree. We HAVE to win next year. That's why brad is making a big mistake by not offering Sean McPeak from SWIC right now. he's a big, physical inside player who loves to mix it up inside. he's the backup plan that we need. I'm shocked that we haven't offered him.

We cannot afford to keep letting these talented area players slip away.

bad boyz for life

p.s. What's up with not offering the 6'8" phillips kid from an Alton team that won 27 games. this lack of area recruiting has to stop.

[slufanskip]

I'm mad I haven't received an offer. I still have 4 years of eligibility. I am local. I can set a hell of a screen ... it takes even the quickest guys a couple of minutes to get around my ass. I shoot better than half the kids on the roster and I am a good communicator. I would also take some of the pressure off UB to work the refs.

If I could only get Vtime's endorsement I might have a chance. Sorry Pdiddy ... I don't think your endorsement will help. I need somebody really tuned in to the local scene ... someone with an opinion that will help. Sorry 3star ... I really need Vtime. I have the tools. Well I don't have a finnishing sander ... but I am willing to get one.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[slu72]

Skip, I've always respected your opinions, but your patience with UB is perplexing. Going into his fifth season it appears the best we can hope for next season is an NIT (not in tournament) bid. But what is really frustrating is the lack of any recruiting information whatsoever. One of two things have to happen this year; we make the dance , or he has a banner fall recruiting period. We are only one key injury away from being an also ran next season. Someday the acceptance of mediocre seasons and the wait 'til next year mindset has to change at SLU.

[Taj79]

I don't know if skip is forgiving or not .... that seems immaterial. I agree with the assessment, however, that something has to give this year with Brad or else. You are right, I believe, in that the sting of another NIT can be replaced with the expectations of a great recruting class but as is typical over the course of this program, I suspect that our "great" recruiting classes are far and few between. Rightnow, I can't say that I'm optimistic on the Fall Early Signing period. I hope to be proved wrong.

What I get a kick out of watching on here is all the newbies with all these grandiose ideas for building this program. I want to see that happen with the rest but I do not believe that offering every St. Louis HS baller is the answer. Even if you did, who's to say it would work? Yes, we don't know much about the recruiting program right now and that's the way it goes. But who's not to say that Brad hasn't offered all the folks that are mentioned on here? Let's say he has ... take that leap with me .... and not a single committment is in the bag right now. Why is that? Take the leap and believe that Brad has offered all those in the Vtime hall of fame list. Then the ball is in their court and they are procrastinating? Why? Only the kid knows but if you've done all you can and your livelihood now depends on the whims of a 16- and 17-year-old, I would suspect you are aging very quickly.

The most immediate fix is to win and win consistently. To do that, you need the players and a little luck. Do we have the players? I'd vote no. We have some but not all. We have a center, one shooting guard/defender, a very nice slasher and a whole bunch of Idunnos. So if you can't win without the players, and you're offering the players yet they don't commit, what is left in your "legal" back of tricks to make it all happen?

The St. Louis area thing I've already seen. Sometimes it works (Claggett, Gray, Douglas, Bonner, Liddell, Lisch, Hughes, Hmark) but sometimes (most what I remember), it doesn't (Missavage, Anderson, Mueller, Renkin, Trice, Jones, Duff, Leuchtefeld, Parker, Mimlitz, Tatum, Baniak, Moeller, Mark Hughes, Caswell).

As for brad as a bench coach, well my jury is still out on that one. Too, too, too many times I've seen him lose control on the bench with his emotions and appear to go into brain lock. I like his defensive abilities; and seem to be still waiting on his offensive game plan. Heck, I'm still waiting on Rich Grawer's offense as well.

I think th enew arena is a good first step. I also think consistency in the head coach's office would be good. But this is an important year in the reign of Brad the first. As an administrator, do I sit with Brad knowing his kid is with the Eagles and might lead to potential inroads? I don't know if that's what you do but its got to be an option.

Heck, St. John's just got slapped for paying somebody. Kind of funny when you have to think real hard back to the last time they were any good.

[cheeseman]

First of all, we can not offer every kid in St. Louis a schollie which is what some of this is starting to sound like. I want Brad to offer to those kids who can actually help us but not to 20 local kids a year. I am not sure what Brad's recruiting plans are but he does seem to be rudderless to those sitting on the outside. This may not be the truth but in absence of information the vacuum is filled by conjecture which usually tends to be negative. As I have said before, this summer and fall recruiting periods are very important to Brad's future. The regular season record and postseason appearance opportunities are also very important. I keep trying to maintain some kind of even keel regarding his progress but it is very hard to do since he seems to do very little publically to buttress his image with fans. I am not saying he is not working hard and does not have a recruiting plan but either he has to start delivering or helping fans understand what he is trying to accomplish. People's perspective is their reality.

[billiken_roy]

and that will never change by playing musical coach chairs every 4 -5 years. the only way to continued sustatined success imo is to stay the course and build a program over the long haul. i.e. gonzaga. it took them 20 years. good thing they had a fan base and athletic director with patience and foresight.

[Major Majerus]

Exactly; it can take a long time to build a program the right way. Look at the trek Norm made, starting with nothing at Mizzou. Look at what Henson did with a down and out program at Illinois. If I were a recruit, it would be important to me to know that the guy who recruited me would be there while I was playing. The win at whatever cost guys on this board have a really simple alternative to being Billiken fans; they can just "adopt" on of the big time programs and get whatever reflected glory that program gives them at the local sports bar.

[billiken_roy]

i think that one of brad's biggest problems is holding his cards to close to his vest at all times. selective information might calm the natives instead everyone hears and knows nothing and assumes nothing is going on.

second, it might be nice to at least concern the coaches and players and anyone else that might have outside contact with how and what to say to the press. brad's open statement of "no plan b" was obviously not phrased in a manner that helped the situation.

last, as many of us have been screaming for for years, it would be nice if we actually had a plan to work the media and marketing for st louis. we have no allies outside of cusamano in the market imo and sure dont get any favorable treatment anywhere.

[cheeseman]

Staying the course is a fine approach if genuine progress is being made. Lets be honest about Brad in this regard - he has provided us with a mix bag of results. I know he went to the NIT twice but in his first two years and during the "when you could almost buy your way in" period by assuring a certain level of revenue from ticket sales. Last year under the new guidelines he did not get in. So we have 2 NITs but nothing the past 2 years. He has recruited TL and KL - great but his next class while is not a disaster is still one of those wait and see situations. His two previous year recruiting classes did not produce anything of great nature - don't tell me about TF,IO and RB - neither one brought us really anything in the way of postseason play. Remember, our drop off coincided with the graduation of Fisher and Sloan and these three assisting. Once Fisher and Sloan were gone, the three for whatever the reason could not deliver. I know he got IV during this time but one bingo in 2 years is not enough. He is making inroads in the local recruiting scene is what many say and this is to some extent true but those who say they have some knowledge of this arena seem to be confused as to why he is not more aggressive in his actions with some local stars. All I am saying is stay the course is fine but what is the course? and what are our agreed upon progress checks?

[Major Majerus]

Here's my progress report: I sat at Kiel with few compatriots when we were proverbial whipping boys. Now good programs come here and we have a chance to beat them. We are, and have been, a competitive program much of the time. I have season tickets, and love to watch the games. Post season? Great if it happens, but usually I can only watch those on TV, and even a lot of great teams only go one deep into the tournament. So I'm content to let a guy try to build a program over time. It's been done before, and it took a lot of patience in many cases...Duke, Gonzaga, and WV for some examples. Where would Creighton be if Dana had left for bigger $$ and they were playing musical chairs there? Get a guy to stay and see what happens. Brad's been to the mountain at WI and they pushed him off. He's a guy that might stay in the face of great results. I just say my vote is to give him that chance, no matter what happens next year. However, if I see evidence of dementia or other new evidence that it's not working, then I reserve the right to change my vote. We are not even close to demanding big results, in my book.

[slu72]

Ok, so we have some guys saying if it takes 8 years it's worth it if...big if..he keeps us on top like Zaga and others...others saying 5 should be the max...I'd give him six if he satisfies one of the two, dance or good recruiting class. The only real buzz UB has created to date is the recruitment of TL and KL....two NIT's but really now how many NIT brackets do you see posted at your local sports bar? I don't even think that many of us are po'd at the loss of Stemler, unless he really blew it at the beginning, but to see two kids only and 3 open scholies, this is an area of concern...I don't know maybe it's West Pine that is the big turnoff and whoever is lucky enough to be the HC when Biondi Dome becomes reality will reap the recruiting benefits...right now though, I think it's pretty sure bet we ain't gonna be calling the court "UB's court" ala "Coach K's court."

[billiken_roy]

unca said,

"We are not even close to demanding big results, in my book."

i think if you added "justify" to your above statement, that would work.

gonzaga took most of two decades to reach the level they are now at. few and monson were longtime assistants in a situation that had gonzaga not stayed the course they never would have made it.

as unca stated, coach k had a very very bland first 4 years before exploding at duke.

what amuses me is the "what if" answers that most of you impatients think will apparently happen if coach soderberg is sent packing.

what if that was true. just who do you think would be brought/agree to take over the program?

if you all think it would be someone big time, you are sadly mistaken. it would likely be a low major coach looking to jump up or some assistant at a major program. i.e. no guaranteed success almost a certain guarantee of again starting over. how anyone can really want that is beyond me.

sure we took a step back in the bryant frericks injury season. but then we follow that up with a huge leap this year with the beginning of lisch/liddell/ian. sure we didnt recruit a single top 25 recruit or bring in the next coming of anthony bonner. however we do return 7 out of our top 8 players and we bring in a pf that was redshirted last year, an all state high school power forward and the reputed best out side high school shooter in the metro st louis area this past year.

we have a guy testing the waters of early entry to the nba. while most believe ian isnt going anywhere, it has been since 1998 since that was even a remote chance for a billiken player. our roster has numerous former first team all st louis players. probably more than at any time since again, the larry hughes season.

i agree it would have been great to sign the next lemarcus aldridge to take over for ian in two seasons and that adam knollmeyer or obi looked like the senior version of anthony bonner. it would have been awesome if we knew that dustin maguire was going to be able to guard george washington's pinnock next year and score 10 points a game. but the fact is, imo we are sitting in a postition that we havent been since 2000 as far as a roster of players. i.e. progress has been made since romar took over, left and soderberg came in.

for those that want to argue that more top players should have wanted to come to saint louis university to play with liddell and lisch this recruiting season, remember, most recruiting is done in the summer and not during the season. so the best players didnt know who lisch and liddell ever were last summer. this summer should be different.

however please soderberg haters, please tell us the coach that the billikens would bring in to replace our head coach.

[cheeseman]

I am not a Brad hater but I am results oriented. My point is and questions are still unanswered. What do we agree to define as progress and how will we measure that? That is all I am asking. Once I hear what that is then I can make objective decisions about Brad. All the antedotal comments people make are not objective measurements just a statement about how you feel and you can not run an organization that way. For the guy who says I don't care about postseason play since I can not go to them - I am sorry but that is just not a very bright statement. Postseason play is one of the measuring sticks I would imagine most would agree on. Finally, everybody keeps talking about Gonzaga - I would say that while there is some legit comparisons to be made we are not really in the same situation. Gonzaga was not the only game in town they had to compete with UW, WSU, and several other west coast PAC 10 teams that had feasted on recruiting in that area along with the Dukes and UNC. We are the only game in town - MU and IL are around but to date they have primarily had a national recruiting focus. Anderson might change that but time will tell. Oh, by the way, Frank C still supports us but he is forming a real adoration for Anderson for some reason. We might not be far from loosing some of his attention.

[billiken_roy]

cheeseman said:

"Gonzaga was not the only game in town they had to compete with UW, WSU, and several other west coast PAC 10 teams that had feasted on recruiting in that area along with the Dukes and UNC. We are the only game in town - MU and IL are around but to date they have primarily had a national recruiting focus."

per yahoo maps and directions, spokane, washington (gonzaga) is 74 miles from pullman, washington (washington state) and 278 miles from seattle, washington (washington).

st louis is 124 miles from columbia missouri, 130 miles from carbondale, illinois, 178 miles from champaign, illinois, and 215 miles from springfield, missouri.

and while mi$$ouri and illinois may have had a "national recruiting focus", they have still come into st louis and taken players.