TheVanillaGorilla Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 That Grimes or McKinney would ever end up at SLU. If and it is a very big if Mizzou would have a postseason ban why would these kids go to SLU. They want national exposure they can't get that at SLU. SLU is on TV 2-3 times a year, this is small potatoes compared to the exposure they get at MIZZOU or would get at Illinois or another big time program that would definitely want them. The top recruits have eyes on the NBA and who can best get them there. Soadaberger can get average kids to play a boring but effective game of hoops. However he has yet to prove any effectiveness at getting kids ready for the next level. Quin turned two unheralded recruits into first round NBA draft picks plus he turned Rush into a first rounder. Gee I wonder why kids want to come to MIZZOU. The top 100 players DO NOT want to play the style of basketball SLU plays, never will. Yes SLU has the potential to become a nice program like Xavier or Dayton but they will never be a perennial top 25 team. Yes every 5th year or so SLU may hit on a recruit that the big boys overlooked and if he sticks around for 4 years SLU could win their regular season conference title and maybe even win a game or two in the tournament. They don't have the alumni or university support to match what the big time and elite programs can offer. Funny that when SLU's best player in the last 20 years decided that he would go to SLU his family member got a heart transplant from SLU. No accusation here, but according to most of you where there is smoke there is fire. I am sure that this thread will be bombarded with Quin will be fired and MIZZOU will get harsh NCAA sanctions and MIZZOU sucks but most of you have a personal hatred for MIZZOU. The latest "journalism" added nothing new to the investigation. The NCAA has had the transcripts for months. The investigation is all but over, just finishing up the report. Already Katz and other are alluding to the fact that MIZZOU will be "ok". Yes the investigation has been embarrassing but when you are at the top of the mountain everyone else is trying to pull you down. While this is big news in Missouri it is getting very little press nationally. In talking with people around the country very few even know that MIZZOU is under investigation. Many of you will be very disappointed in the final results of the investigation. MIZZOU will continue onward and upward. #3/#4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 your post title is sure accurate account of your content. vanilla said, "Gee I wonder why kids want to come to MIZZOU." my gosh after today it is pretty obvious. for the money! vanilla said, "Yes SLU has the potential to become a nice program like Xavier or Dayton but they will never be a perennial top 25 team. Yes every 5th year or so SLU may hit on a recruit that the big boys overlooked and if he sticks around for 4 years SLU could win their regular season conference title and maybe even win a game or two in the tournament." and missouri has won how many big 8 no i mean 12 conference titles? vanilla said, "They don't have the alumni or university support to match what the big time and elite programs can offer." have you seen the arena we will build with private donations? vanilla said, "Funny that when SLU's best player in the last 20 years decided that he would go to SLU his family member got a heart transplant from SLU." i guess it has nothing to do with the fact that saint louis university hospital has a fantastic cardiac unit? hughes had committed the month before the donor became available. so your timing doesnt even come close to making sense. hughes' little brother played a hand in wanting to stay close to home, but he also was determined to play with his aau teamates who had just won the national championship, his high school coach derrick thomas who had come on the slu staff the year before, and be guaranteed of being "the man" from day one at slu whereas at syracuse he was going to share billing with others. but thanks for the laughable post. rest assured, the world is enjoying the soap opera as it unfurls. must feel great to be the laughing stock of college basketball this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I'm sorry, but for as much as I follow and root for Missouri, I can't recall what "unheralded" recruits Quin Snyder turned into NBA first-rounders. You mentioned Kareem Rush, so he's eliminated. Keyon Dooling was recruited by Norm Stewart and played for Snyder for just one year -- besides the fact that he was fairly highly regarded come out of high school -- so he's out. I can't think of any other Tigers who've been drafted (by the NBA) under Snyder's watch. And if you're talking about Arthur Johnson and Rickey Paulding, I have two arguments. First of all, they haven't been drafted yet (don't count your chickens before they hatch). Second, I beg to differ that they were "unheralded." On the contrary, they were highly regarded -- on the same level as Rush and Dooling. If anything, Travon Bryant was the most highly regarded recruit (a McDonald's All-American), and he's underachieved under Snyder's watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 "and missouri has won how many big 8 no i mean 12 conference titles?" They have won big 8 titles including an undefeated big 8 season in the early 90's. They also have won quite a few games in the tournament in recent years. "have you seen the arena we will build with private donations?" It appears that so far you have raised a total of 10-20 million dollars. The almighty budwieser does not make for a sustainable athletic endowment program that big schools use to fund their athletic programs. "i guess it has nothing to do with the fact that saint louis university hospital has a fantastic cardiac unit? hughes had committed the month before the donor became available. so your timing doesnt even come close to making sense." I guess getting a transplant only weeks after committing is very convienent. I wonder if others on the waiting list had the same opportunities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Paulding and Johnson were ranked between 60-100 hardly sure fire 1st round NBA talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 50-100 if they stay around 4 years there is a very good chance of becoming top picks just because any other competitors in their class have already moved on. Keyon and Clarence Gilbert were both top recruits, both in the top 20 at their positions. Keyon is forever on the IL and Gilbert is playing in Timbuktu. And this is getting very little press nationally????????? I can only assume you do not watch or read the national press. Mike Decourcy's collumn in TSN this week is totally about Mizzou and possible punishments they will face and ESPN has mizzou as their top story all night long. If that isn't national coverage I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 How do you figure, every year there are 100 new kids in the top 100. Last time I checked there were only 30 1st round picks. Your math doesnt add up. Plus this does not even count the abundance of overseas talent that never playes college ball that is drafted each year. Plus last time I checked Dooling is playing about 20min per game and collecting a nice paycheck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 My math adds up, the longer a hig profile recruit stays and plays at a high level the better chance he gets of being drafted. Outside of the top 15 picks SRs are the still the norm in the NBA draft. You increase your chances by staying on exponentially if you are a borderline draft pick as a sophomore or junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Every top program plays in an $80 million dollar arena. SLU doesn't have the support that SPUMAC does? Your right our endowment is much larger 30th largest in the country as of 2001 and only getting larger. Who is the best player in the NBA out of the state of Missouri? Why it is Larry Hughes. We all know that no other school in the country (St. John's, Texas, BC, MU, UM, etc, etc, etc) has a hospital capable of conducting heart transplant surgery. Q.S. has his team hitting on all cylinders they blew out that top team from the Mid-Continent Conference and Coppin St the player development showed up in those games. SPUMAC is on the mountain top? 6, 6, 6, and 5th place finishes in Big 12 Conf. Play how about beat out a few of your conference mates first like the one to the West they are what I would call on the mountain top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Nice revisionist history. Paulding and Johnson were ranked between 30 and 60 at the start of their senior years - hardly unheralded. Bob Gibbons and Prepstars rankings included. http://home.nc.rr.com/rsci/rsci100-00.TXT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFAN2000 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I disagree that we aren't getting press nationally. Hell, a Seattle paper even had mention of it. What I will say is the national media is not being as harsh as the local media, and this board. It's still not set in stone- and I wouldn't claim to know what these tapes mean. I don't think it's as clear as we think it is, as we don't know where the NCAA has gone in their investigation. It's very private, and it basically all comes down to whether or not these tapes are new news to the investigators. If they knew about these already, nothing has changed. If this is brand new information, it could mean bad news for Mizzou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 17 of 30 drafted in the first round in 2003 were college players of those 9 were seniors. Not sure how 100 fits into 9. Sure some left early but still most top 100 players never play in the NBA. Cleveland - LeBron James, SVSM HS -HS Detroit - Darko Milicic, Serbia -Overseas Denver - Carmelo Anthony, Syracuse -FR Toronto - Chris Bosh, Georgia Tech Miami - Dwyane Wade, Marquette L.A. Clippers - Chris Kaman, Central Michigan Chicago - Kirk Hinrich, Kansas Milwaukee - T.J. Ford, Texas New York - Mike Sweetney, Georgetown Washington - Jarvis Hayes, Georgia Golden State - Mickael Pietrus, France Seattle - Nick Collison, Kansas Memphis - Marcus Banks (to Boston) Seattle - Luke Ridnour, Oregon Orlando - Reece Gaines, Louisville Boston - Troy Bell (to Memphis) Phoenix - Zarko Cabarkapa, Serbia New Orleans - David West, Xavier Utah - Aleksandar Pavlovic, Serbia Boston - Dahntay Jones (to Memphis) Atlanta - Boris Diaw-Riffiod, France New Jersey - Zoran Planinic, Croatia Portland - Travis Outlaw, Starkville HS L.A. Lakers - Brian Cook, Illinois Detroit - Carlos Delfino, Argentina Minnesota - Ndudi Ebi, Westbury Christian HS Memphis - Kendrick Perkins (to Boston) San Antonio - Leandro Barbosa (to Phoenix) Dallas - Josh Howard, Wake Forest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Athletic endowments are separate from university academic endowments. http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/index.asp?story_id=30700 http://mutigers.ocsn.com/school-bio/did-you-know.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Depends what recruiting guru you look at. But I thought you guys didn’t believe recruiting gurus ranked players accurately or else most on this board believe Lidell should be a top 50 player at least a top 100 player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 ...whatever our response is, you'll find a way to debunk it and paint every thing to your advantage. There's no sense in carrying on a debate with such an individual, because we can't prove a thing and everything you say changes shape to suit your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFAN2000 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I believe that's common amongst all posters. I spin things to suit my argument, so does vanilla, so does roy, so do you...We're all stubborn. I've seen about 3 points conceded since I got here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 it's amusing you already have paulding and johnson as first round picks. you better wait and see on that. besides they may not want to go to the nba. they obviously will have to take paycuts. maybe laurie can figure out how to keep them at missouri and then they all are happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 ... is that if they skate here ..... the NCAA enforcement division is a joke. Throw Ricky Clemons out of the equation. Throw Jessica Bunge out. Throw all the rumor and innuendo out. These are exact recordings, okay potentially taken out of context but so what, and the wives of two prominent university officials are corroborating some serious, serious, serious violations in this program. Heck, I'll even ignore that its Mizzou. Any program giving kids free money is involved in serious violations no matter the sport. While I don't think its the "death penalty" (you need a serious history of violations for that, don't you), its got to be much more than a slap on the wrist. Maryland found out that one of its assistant coaches had bought a kid a game boy and gave him $30 for a video game. That coach was instanteously fired and Maryland dropped all recruiting efforts on the kid. All their coaches went to NCAA-documented recruting refresher school. The kid went to Notre Dame and I think he made the all-NCAA freshmen team playing DE this year. I don't see anything reciprocal being done to rectify this at Mizzou and while theVanillaGorilla makes points on his thrust and parry style, I find it extremely difficult to ignore facts proven from exact records quoting people in prominent Univeresity-related positions. Even if the parties do skate, how do you repair the internal damage and hemmoragging that all this has to be causing. Of final note, a Caucasian city adminstrator had to resign in DC for stating that the city was being "niggardly" in handling its social services budget. DC as most know has a population base predominantly made up of African-American. They claimed the man was a racist and this was their proof. Yet Stewart gets away with "crackers." Hmmmmmmmm. P.S. Look up "niggardly" in the dictionary. It means miserly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Is the fact that those living in Missouri are funding this kind of crap with their hard earned tax dollars. Oh well, I guess each state has their own albatross...down here in Florida, we still get laughed at for hanging chads!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 pretty q is the highest paid state employee and i assume floyd isnt far behind. the citizens of missouri should now be outraged and screaming. you hate to see the legislators getting involved in college affairs, but now it has become national beyond anyone's thoughts and it appears is just as nasty of a scandal as has been seen in college sports. to think, alex haley made this all happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Coach Brad is in his second year here ... he did not get hired until the recruiting season was about over but he still came up with RB, AD, IO, and JJ. His second class is TF, BH, DC and IV ... since they are still freshmen we may not find out this week what their future in basketball may be. 3rd class is Liddell, Polk, and Meyer with one left to give. Brad did pretty well with the talent that was here and is upgrading the talent every year. Why don't you give it a couple of years before you make a decision on his coaching and recruiting ability. I'm going to stay out of the Mizzou debate ... I just don't see the point. The Mizzou fans who post on this board will defend them blindly regardless of the obvious ... and thats ok. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 ...includes ruining people's lives, cheating, lying, etc. you can have the top of the mountain. Life is too short to live like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Check out this article today in the STL PD: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stor...on+to+Columbia+ An absolute embarrassment to the University of Missouri and the state leadership (although it's noted Floyd feels "slightly" embarrassed). The comments made in these recordings are unbelievable. They are comments one may expect from those deemed ignorant, but to have the school administators and their close family members voicing this stuff is reprehensible. As far as I'm concerned, the only way forward for the sake of University integrity is to immediately fire Floyd and Stewart. I just don't see how they ever survive the comments brought to light in the tape recordings. On the basketball side, you have Clemmons basically supporting Bunge's allegations. Note that while he says she didn't see anything, he also infers that she is correct in her assertions. I suspect this is the death knell for Snyder and his assistants. Anyone think we'll have the return of King Norm, at least on an interim basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 If not for him, it might not have come out (provided the allegations are proven), but the alleged wrongdoing still allegedly occurred even if Jessica Bunge's refusal to watch Roots hadn't "provoked" Ricky Clemons to assault her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFAN2000 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 You're joking, right? Even if you hate Mizzou, Paulding and Johnson would have been late first round picks last year as juniors. Barring injury (which i assume can be the only thing you're talking about) they're definitely NBA bound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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