Musings in D.C.

[pompeytir]

Courtside thoughts of GW game section 202…

-For everyone saying Liddell needs more opportunity…he had it a lot tonight and didn’t convert, drives to the hoop, open layups, pull up jumpers, etc….He is a fine Freshman, polished he is not. Good rebounder plays physical and jumps out of the gym. He just does not have it all together yet, and giving the ball to him more than he got tonight will get you more of the same above. He needs a summer to develop some more.

-Brown, where have you been? SLU has needed a scorer like this since the Travis Fisher days. Nice to see a guard who is quick, can create just enough and knock down the open 3pt shot. Missed the clutch shot but I can live with what he gave SLU.

-Justin Johnson is a decent rebounder (he is 6’9’’) but tell me can accurately shoot the 15’ again and I will vomit. He just does not have it and every team we will play from here on out will let him shoot until he finally knocks down more that 37% (and those are not just layups he is missing). He killed a lot of the momentum by missing the J’s and Brad had to continue to use someone else against the 2-3 Zone because he could not shoot.

-Newborne is fat. Probably the reason he is not in there a lot. He can consistently knock down the 15’ and in traffic. His touch really helped against the zone but he is just not the board warrior that JJ can be when he wants.

-Lisch still is not very aggressive and isn’t a gunner. If does not fall early, he is not going to keep shooting. He still does not have a move driving to the basket. Very passive in the offense, especially against the 2-3 zone, knocked some shots down late. Be glad that Brown shot the ball tonight.

-Polk is probably (is) a back up. He can’t shoot and he can’t finish or do anything once he drives the lane. Excellent on the ball defender against similair size guards. He also has an excellent handle.

-Drejaj played but his handle is not great(especially against a press). His defense is soft. At least he looks tough, I guess. Not a big fan-SLU looked better with him out.

-***** all you want about Brad and this loss but his teams play tenacious defense, smothered GW all game and GWs athleticism got them at least half of the points.

-Most of the Points made by GW were garbage shots-1 on 1 moves against solid defense, there isn’t a lot of cutting, or even driving and dishing in the GW offensive repertoire (if they end up winning a NCAA tourney game I will be shocked).

-FT killed this team tonight, IV, Tommy…wow. Tommy does this stutter before his shot where he holds it forever and keeps his eyes on the floor and clangs it. I wasn’t surprised when he missed. (Stare at the hoop; never let your eyes leave the hoop)

-SLU got screwed by the refs (two goaltending non calls at the end-one on each end) and some heavy hacking on IV (oh well, we got it against Chicago St). I am never one to ***** about the refs but they sucked.

-GW's student sections was about 25 guys and the Lewis center is a dump. I did get 2 canned soda and a hotdog for 5.00. Beat that!

[courtside]

Thanks.

Obviously you need to take into consideration it is one game. With that said, one could have the same comments ou had in most SLU games this season...few exceptions but most are right on. Methodical teams and good defensive teams give GW trouble. This has been the book on Soderberg before he even came to SLU...tough defense, and little offense. He has yet to change any perceptions. The frosh class is encouraging, but as we have discussed on the board before, these are top 100 kids, not top 30 kids, and there is a difference. Liddell will eventually finish his shots...the encouragement is his athleticism, instincts, aggressiveness, etc...the shots will fall next year for him. Lisch may be more of a two year contributor. But he is a solid recruit...his adjustment to the college game will take two years, perhaps a year longer than expected or hoped by many on the board.

In order for SLU to turn the corner, Soderberg needs a Liddell caliber talent...not the same style or position, etc...just that level of ability EACH year. So far he hasn't, the hope is that will change. THEN after that, sprinkle in a recruit once every so many years that is even better than that. It is obvious Soderberg can coach, his kids play hard for him etc...but will his teams eventually score enough points night in and night out, and will he recruit each year here on out...or will it be more kids who aren't able to play at the level SLU is aspiring to reach.

It is very difficult to maintain the level of intensity, and defensive effort over a long season, if you can't score enough to win. Eventually you wear down. Will be interesting to see how much better some players get come the end of the season.

[Cowboy]

Liddell will eventually finish his shots...the encouragement is his athleticism, instincts, aggressiveness, etc..

i sure wish his instincts would have told him to be aggressive at the end of regulation and be aggessive and shoot the ball from 6' versus passing for a 19 fter

[Taj79]

Having now seen this team in person, I believe I can be a lot more objective than I have been. I also believe that it will eliminate some of the negativity I have been accused of having in the past. You be the judge.

Overall: the state of affairs in Saint Louis University basketball is on the upswing. With Lisch, Liddell, Brown and Vouyoukas, we have some good parts in place that need to be taken advantage of for continued growth. But they are young, and youth will lead to games like last night.

Brown gets an A grade. He was the "man" last ngiht as far as shooting and scoring was concerned. I can easily overlook some of his turnovers given the athleticism GeeDub pu ton that floor last night. I think we can hold our own and even dominate if these kids all grow up at the same time.

Liddell get a B. I am conflicted with Tommie's play based on what I expected. He played primarily the point last night and I'm not too sure I like that overall. But he can take his man and create and at his height, that is a good thing. I think he will only get better. I think my conflict is that I have visions of Hughes still dancing in my head and I need to get rid of those.

Lisch also gets a B. I thought his overall game effort was fantastic and there were times on defense that I was amazed he was still with Elliott after some of the moves Elliott put on him. He hit some shots ... not all but who does ... and was certainly a player who deserves all the court time he gets.

Vouyoukas gets a C+. GeeDub did what I believe every team will do to Ian ... collapse and crash on him if and when he gets the ball. When that was Pops and Hall, he had a huge problem. And some entry passes were not crisp enough. A guy sitting next to me was from Philly and stayed around to watch the game afte the Temple ladies opened up the night. He assessment was that the offense needs to run through Ian .. not because of his scoring (what he have five last night) but because he sees the floor so well and is one of the best passing big men this guy had even seen. This guys closing comments were "don't blame the kids, blame the coach" for this loss. His explanation was based on the fact that we didn't seem to have any plays to run that led to scoring. That we moved around in a motion offense that led to no real easy shots. I thought it was an interesting comment. What really bugged me was when Hobbs went to the smaller lineup and pressed, he did so in a one-three-one setup. In that, your smallest player is the last defender, the one on the backline. This put Ian up against Rice or Elliott .. and NOT ONCE did we get him the ball in this configuration. Go figure.

I got the feeling that JJ was trying his hardest, but I believe Brad cuts this guy no quarter. First sign of any mistake, and JJ was yanked. Granted, he never made a shot and hardly followed any of his misses .. even when he did, he still either turned it over or was so out-of-control that the charge was obvious.

I don't know if I agree that Newbourne is fat, as pompey has said. He is hefty, but he did seem to play a serious role in last night's game. Between Pinnock, Williams, Mensah-Bonsu, Hall and even others off the bench, our athleticism coul dnot match up with GeeDub's. Another note that the Philly guy made was that if you can't compete with the physicality of the opponent, then proepr technique is need to neutralize that disadvantage. We didn't technique anything out there much of last night.

Luke Meyer had his left (I believe) ankle or lower leg in a splint contraption last night. He was dressed, but didn't play at all. Is that the hairline fracture leg and maybe its not all healed properly. Didn't appear to be much noticable in warmups.

Drejaj probably should not have gone last night. I know that maybe the whole Drejaj family was there (well, at least six or so based on

playing connect the box in the stands) and that might be reason enough to get him in there but he was not himself. There also seemed to be a time when his "instructions" to others, like Lisch and Liddell, were more harping than helpful. It implied a unti fighting amongst itself. He ened the night with his left foot/ankle wrapped up in ice. Don't know if that is the same foot that has had himout for a while but it did not look too good last night. This may sound cruel but I think despite Anthony's blood and guts style, he is better suited for being a bench player right now as we move to develop the top three guards mentioned above.

Dwayne is a nice floor leader and in a better situation he would be having a better year but his is somewhat of a liability on defense (though no fault of his own) and is painfully obvious not an option on offense. yes, yes, he hit a key three late but other than that, his contributions are more intagible right now than anything else.

Some other observations .... the dunk that Omar Williams threw down late was extremely impressive. He was skywalking. Pops better find a game to take to the next level if he think she's going anywhere. But I'll tell you what, I'd kill to have him as our four. I think he had five points last night, but with his rebounding, points are gravy. He gets double digits if he shoots free throws at all last night.

SignKid went across the court in yellow-and-dark-blue Speedos guys. He sat with the GeeDub crowd. He cheered with the GeeDub crowd. But he was really tormented. All his waiting and wanting for this game to occur and I could tell he was really angst-ridden.

I remember sitting there with 22.9 seconds left in regulation, game tied, we have the ball, and I'm thinking this is where we want to be. We take the last shot, knock it down or get fouled and chants of "Over-rated" are raised gleefully as we head on down to Marion Barry's for a post-game blow. The ball is in TL's hands, he's driving to the hoop down the right side, this is good if pull sup for that lefthanded jumper, he's right under the basket, uh-oh .. a kick out to Danny but this is also good because Danny is wide open on a hot night ... and the ball slips out of Danny's hands on the rising jumper and we go to overtime without that last shot. I am with SLU_Nick ... given our angle on the paly, I think the shot gets blocked if Tommie takes it. I don't believe we had a call all night on plays around our cyclinder ... not Ian, not Tommie not no one. So maybe the kick out is a good thing. But we don't get a shot ... it's always something it seems with this program.

At first I knew I recognized the guy that came in and joined us but I thought it was Hughes. Didn't knowit was RB and didn't get a chance to talk to him.

Finally, I don't believe this conference knows us well enough to understand the kind of defense we bring to games. I know GeeDub was surprised. Given how we competed in CUSA each year, if we do that here, we can go a very long way each year.

As I said, I am now very high on this team because some of the parts are there. I don't believe Maguire alone helps much but we need some more parts. A JJ/VN combo can fill the four void for now, but gosh I hope Obi does more of what the GeeDub guys do than what our fours usually do.

i don't believe we lost this game because of the zebras, although they were bad. The one little guy seemed more interested in keeping our bench sitting down (there are like no sideline or endline spaces anywhere in the Smith Center) then getting calls right. Ian got mugged .. play on. Pops gets treated the same ... ticky-tack foul. And I can't tell you how many seemed to come on late whistles as well. "Oh-Gee-Dub-missed-and-St.-Louis-might-get-the-ball" .. blow whistle now! I understand the philosophy that if you called everything, no one would be left on the court by halftime (at times) but does that justify not calling the "amputations" while you are calling "finger touches."

Finally, I am one for voting NOT to put anyone's student section anywhere near the visting team's bench. Some folks think that by being a studnet or by being at the game, that ticket give you the right to abuse irrationally the visiting team for the entire game. Robin Ficker was a well-known fan who, years ago, had season tickets behind the Bullets/Wizards opponents bench at the Cap Center and later at MCI. He was infamous for harassing the opposition by doing weird things the entire game. Once, he read the entire book "Jordan's Rules" while the Bulls and Jordan were on the court playing the Wizards. While not profane, his act and antics were legendary. I am here to tell you that if you want to grow up to be the next Robin Ficker, I think the prerequiste course load is at GeeDub. I am sure everyone everywehre can say this about opposing fans, but wow!

[pompeytir]

I agree that the team is going in the right direction. I also think that if this the best the A-10 has going for it, besides Xavier and St.Joe's...SLU should win alot of games (I figured close to .500 this year). Now I'm thinking 10-6, especially if Brown gets the PT.

This team is an average (at best) Division I shooting team. SLU will continue to struggle to score until Brad puts in some semblance of an offense. I brought a few friends with me to the game and their comment was, "SLU doesn't run an offense?".

At this point I will take Brown scoring 12-15 a game and turning the ball over with some lapses in defense.

I'm not being hard on Lidell but he had a lot of opportunity last night and didn't convert. That comment was for the people clamoring for him to domintate the offense, ala Larry Hughes.

Brad, Please develop and offense.

[Billiken Rich]

I'm sorry but saying we do not run an offense is absolute shash. It isn't always pretty and when we run set plays it sometimes looks worse but there is system and we are playing within it.

[3star_recruit]

What offense we have relies heavily on the ability to make 17-20 ft jump shots a la West Virginia but we don't have enough shooters. The signing of high school sharpshooter Dustin Maguire and possibly juco sharpshooter Lance Stemler may be just what the doctor ordered. It may only translate into another 5-6 ppg but those extra points could have won us at least two more games this year.

[billiken_roy]

pomp said,

"I also think that if this the best the A-10 has going for it, besides Xavier and St.Joe's...SLU should win alot of games (I figured close to .500 this year). Now I'm thinking 10-6"

it is only one game, but i tend to agree. yes gw had some athletes, but that was a beatable team and consider that ian and justin had horrible games and tommie didnt shoot well, i too have an even better feeling about our chances if we can start putting complete games together.

[Taj79]

pomp ... your original post says you were in section 202. But your narrative says "courtside". Section 202 is "upstairs" at the Smith Center. Were you upstairs or at courtside in the visitor's section with us?

The reason I ask is this ... that guy that was next to me was from Philly and he said the same thing ... does SLU run an offense ... because he saw no picks or screens being set in his opinion. I thought his comment on technique versus athleticism was very appropriate. Curious if these comments came from the same section or two different vantage points. That is all.

As for Rich's comment, well, I'm not in a position to dispute whether we run an offense or not and one opinion is not better or worse than another. I just find it somewhat amazing that two different guys in two different parts of an opponent's arena said the same thing or not.

As to three-stars comment, does anyone else find it odd that our offense is predicated towards getting jump shots? I would offer that our shooting ability is not the strength we should be playing to but that might be all we can look towards. Many claim our strength is Ian, but that gets negated by double- and triple-teams in the blocks.

Oh well ... I seem to recall lamenting about this type of offense when Grawer's teams used to run it. Hard to believe there's no progress since then.

[billiken_roy]

i think that we no longer run the motion offense as most understand it and expect. and that is the case simply because of ian.

we actually are running that 4 out four guard offense normally even if johnson or newborne are in the game. the thinking is let ian spin, pivot, pull, push, etc to get an open look for the ball and then the offense from there is a series of cuts, screens fades etc to put oneself in a better position to shoot should ian decide to pass out.

he has done the same using either drejaj or tommie in that pass post position as well.

i am not sure i like it, but it appears to me the decision has apparently been made to hitch the wagon to ian and ride it out till march.

[Nate Latsch]

Liddell's jumper is still a work in progress, but if he puts in the time and effort he can become a much more complete player.

As long as I've been watching him, one of his most dependable offensive moves is shooting that mid-range pull-up j, missing it and then getting the rebound to put it back in. Obviously that's not always going to work.

If he could knock down jumpers consistently, you'd have a lot of people talking about him jumping to the League after this season or next season.

- Nate

[thetorch]

Of course not seeing last nights game in person but throughout the year I have been perplexed by SLU's anemic offense. Soderberg has no plan against a zone. There are no cuts, no screens and no attempts to set up Ian when facing a zone. The gameplan appears to be pass around the horn and take a 3 or penetrate or pass it to JJ or VN at the ft line. This makes little senes to me. Liddell should be set up on the ft line. He seems an obvious choice there, but I have seen one possession where this occurred.

Right now Liddell should be taking shots in practice not in games. He hasn't developed a touch at this level yet. He is still a good player without. If he never develops any shooting touch he will be Julian Winfield type, and I could live with that.

[ACE]

TL is already better than Winfield ever was. I think TL needs to be surrounded with dependable scorers. I just don't think his game is geared to always being "the man." He's one of those guys who should be able to make those around him better. He can create a lot of opportunities with his penetration and outstanding passing skills. He needs a running mate like Claggett, Love, Bryant, etc. In time, hopefully Lisch can be become that kind of guy. Someday, I would love to return to the days when we actually have three guys who average in double figures, so the scoring load is not so dependant on one guy like has been the case in recent years.

[Billiken Rich]

We didn't lack for open shots very often against the zone. We acheived this through passing and dribble penetratration. Will the bills even have anyone who can quickly shoot off a screen like theat kid from Iowa????

[JaleJarr]

Liddell's jumper is still a work in progress, but if he puts

in the time and effort he can become a much more complete

player.If he could knock down jumpers consistently, you'd have a lot of people talking about him jumping to the League after this season or next season.

- Nate

He really needs to get with Kevin Lisch and work on the mechanics of his jumpshot, seeing that both are left-handed. Unlike Kevin, Tommie has been playing AAU consistently since his freshmen year of HS, this took all the time he should have devoted to improving his jumpshooting. Tommie's greatest asset (his ability to get by anybody) also hindered his shooting ability. He has never had to rely on his jumpshooting to score points. Nate for you to acknowledge that Liddell has professional potential prior to the completion of 4 years of college is quite a jump from your stance earlier this summer.

[Billikan]

I think you are not watching the games carefully enough. In fact, we do have specific rotations against the zone that involve people flashing to the free throw line and on the base line. The problem is execution and decision making. Our inability to pass to Ian when he is open drives me crazy. We often make passes that open up the pass to Ian--where he will probably be double teamed but he can then pass to an open man--and we don't execute. Either we make a weak pass that is stolen or we just pass it up entirely. If we made better passes and Justin-and others-- could hit open shots we would all say that Brad is brilliant. The game plan was not the problem. The problem was decision making and execution.

[Billikan]

The great thing about Tommie is that he is a freshman and so his upside potential is terrific. I think it is totally unfair to put up expectations that he can jump to the NBA in the next two years. There are so many players that have gone too soon and were never heard of again that it is ridiculous. In my view, he has the potential to go to the "league" but it will take several years of hard work lifting weights, getting bigger and stronger and developing a reliable shot. I would guess that his shot will get better if he works on his touch and he gets stronger. It will be fun to watch him get better over the next few years.

[slufanskip]

taking shots in practice not in games? He's the second leading scorer on the team ... if he doesn't shoot he won't score. I'm guessing that statement didn't come out as you meant it

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